1.06 Patch discussion/findings

[Ultinarok]

If they buff his frame data and attack speed he's going to usurp Diddy Kong.

So they probably won't. And I like my challenging Shulk style right now, so my only request would be for Air Slash to auto-snap the ledge and for an improved dash attack. Everything else is golden. But I'll be happy to see buffs, if there are any.

 

[erico9001]

They changed vectoring to di in an update

Isn't it now a weird mix? Idk... I don't think that discussion ever went anywhere. Well I just had a thought... what if DI and VI are the SAME THING. I mean, vectors DO influence direction.

So is anyone here going to actually see and look for the changes (assuming no patch notes). I would but I don't think I have the equipment to do (not sure how to measure hitboxes and frame data), and I'm only able to update it like the day after the update hits. I'm sure if no one here looks, someone will get it, but it'll be nice to know about Shulk's changes quickly.

First things I will do are get Mewtwo, then check this thread. If nobody has tested them yet, I will go ahead and test MALLC and the Monado Art egg glitch. I'm going to wait until frame data rather than test each move, though. I might test for any nerfs or buffs to the monado art damages; that would be easy.

 

[Plain Yogurt]

Random thing I saw in the Falco boards: Should we have a Shulk patch history somewhere? Is that something that's worth it for the archives?

 

[Berserker.]

Random thing I saw in the Falco boards: Should we have a Shulk patch history somewhere? Is that something that's worth it for the archives?

The Falco moderator has some sort of grudge against Shulk since Shulk can outclass Falco in every way (except Frame data)

 

[ChronoPenguin]

I made peace with shulks frame data long ago.
Jump and Speed are still the most credible artes.
Backslash's double hit is mad underwhelming.
Shields drawbacks are too strong, i understand the flavor of it in contrast to Speed, but it is overkill. I wouldn't even give it the 10% debuff, just remove the debuff entirely.


I'd be surprised if anything actually happens however.

 

[Berserker.]

Shulk's frame data was gutted for his amazing range. I think we all get that. A slight buff to frame data would be pretty nuts but I wouldn't say no to any buff. Back slash needs to be more useful (increase damage output, allow it to grab the ledge). Air slash needs to auto-snap. Shield needs to be MORE useful.

I'm not really expecting much but eh. I can't help but think about it.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Eh I'm fine with it. He is a stance based character, problem is when the stances don't hold up, which has been my opinion on Buster, Shield and even Smash to be honest to a lesser extent.

To me Decisive Buster = Vanilla Speed, which is to say Decisive buster is Really good. Decisive Speed is good but I advocate it partially because the imbalance in "value" among the Vanilla artes gives it more value then it actually has. Decisive Buster has a level of shield safety that is hard to ignore, vanilla buster doesn't have it to that extent. It is to be expected as Hyper buster is even safer on Shield, however at Dec Busters % is when you start having these options you can consider on a fruitful level, and you may consider Hyper if you want even bigger rewards. It's almost like Decisive Buster is what the correct damage ratio for what Vanilla Buster should have been. Im fairly certain if it were the case, Shulks frame data would make a lot more sense. Decisive Buster is so functional that Decisive Speed does not discredit it at all because Decisive Buster excels in certain situations that Speed does not, however given Decisive artes emphasis taking a playstyle more then being flexible its a lot more personal. The distribution of value between Jump, Dec Jump, Decisive Speed, Vanilla Speed, Dec Smash, and Dec Buster is close. Which is really to say that everything else isn't.

All forms of Shield suffer from the potency of the drawbacks, and vanilla Smash is the best out of the three in my opinion, it is fairly situational but like Buster, it seems to just be slightly off the reward it intends to give you even for the situation its meant for.

Like Backslash it seems like Shulk just has a couple of small things in his specials arsenal that are a little less then where they should be. While this is a trend for a lot of characters, given his core gimmick and balancing measure relies on the monado mechanic, there has to be equal value (which does not mean equal useage) within the artes. I believe almost everyone here at some point or another acknowledged that there is not.
Air Slash and vision are great, their flaws are reasonable.
I don't want to make it seem like Shulk doesn't have normals but given his entire gimmick is the handling of Monado artes to alter his base characteristics/normals....yeah, Monado artes not being up to snuff would be my immediate focus.

 

[Maple42]

Change all of the colors of the Monado Arts to look the same so that everyone can understand the pain of using Shulk while colorblind :V

 

[Sol0ke]

The waiting

It just kills me

 

[Plain Yogurt]

The Falco moderator has some sort of grudge against Shulk since Shulk can outclass Falco in every way (except Frame data)

...huh? The moderator didn't say anything. I was in the Falco boards and saw that they had a Falco patch history thread and I was wondering if we thought that would be something worth doing for Shulk. I mean probably not since we've had patch 1.04 pinned in Smash Academy for months, but it was just a thought if we would want one specifically for Shulk. Sorry if I was unclear.

 

[Maple42]

On a more serious note, like the others said, it'd be nice if Backslash autosnapped the ledge; it'd be nice horizontal recovery, giving it an actual purpose, other than using the super armor custom to get out of being combo'd....
Oh, and style points, of course.
Personally, I'd like Utilt to have a bit more vertical range; however, the move is great on its own, and definitely doesn't need a buff.

 

[Piford]

On a more serious note, like the others said, it'd be nice if Backslash autosnapped the ledge; it'd be nice horizontal recovery, giving it an actual purpose, other than using the super armor custom to get out of being combo'd....
Oh, and style points, of course.
Personally, I'd like Utilt to have a bit more vertical range; however, the move is great on its own, and definitely doesn't need a buff.

Doesn't up-tilt have by far the most vertical range out of any move in the entire game? If I would make a change to up-tilt, I would make it not miss as often when used horizontally close to shulk (or maybe I'm just bad and missing because of poor spacing).

 

[Maple42]

Hehe, whoops. Yeah, meant horizontal range u//w//u

 

[Deleted member]

Requested Buffs:

Shield:

Why: I rarely use this art since its almost worthless for my playstyle, seeing as you're so slow you can't get in a hit (which also do less damage ) so you are prone to being camped by any projectile. Even if you tank a hit that would've killed you without this art on, you can't recover without immediately switching to jump (or speed if you're high enough), so the art just seems like a waste of time. I prefer going to Buster/Speed at kill percent after I took a stock for straight up damage from spacing or combos.

Changes: Increase the walk and dash mobility of Shield, but not all the way back up to Vanilla 's speed. The damage reduction should also be decreased from 30% to around 15%.

Buster:
Why: This is a fantastic art when used properly, and it still is very balanced because it can be devastating if you get caught in a combo or take too many hits. However, one thing that the art lacks is hitstun/knockback. There are times when you space your moves out and try to get high percent strings, but end up being hit before you can get out of lag or land another attack. This is because Buster doesn't increase hitstun, but decreases knockback, so moves that would be safe on landing in Vanilla mode get you punished for extra percent in Buster.

Changes: Slightly increase knockback and/or hitstun while in Buster.

Backslash:

Why: This move is supposed to be rewarding when hitting an opponent's back, but the knockback you might expect is abysmal for correctly landing a very risky, punishable, and slow hit. It also doesn't ledgesnap, so you can't recover with it, making its use extremely situational.

Changes: Increase the knockback scaling of the back hit and have ledgesnap if his body is near the edge while using Backslash.

Airslash:
Why: Getting hit because you don't go low enough to recover because likes to peek over the edge isn't fun. Mighty Airslash doesn't reliably connect both hits as well.

Changes: Have a ledgesnap window and make Mighty Airslash's second hit connect more frequently.

Nerfs:

Shulk doesn't really deserve any nerfs because of his middling frame data. The only thing I would consider nerfing would be Vision's counter frames going down more as its used more, but its not necessary considering that its a counter.


Those are all of the changes I'd suggest to Sakurai, fellow Monado Boys . I look forward to seeing it seeing you again on Wednesday!

 

[Berserker.]

...huh? The moderator didn't say anything. I was in the Falco boards and saw that they had a Falco patch history thread and I was wondering if we thought that would be something worth doing for Shulk. I mean probably not since we've had patch 1.04 pinned in Smash Academy for months, but it was just a thought if we would want one specifically for Shulk. Sorry if I was unclear.

I'm good friends with the mod. He makes jokes out of it in the Zelda boards. Lol

Important edit: Read the OP everyone. Please. Thanks

 

[Masonomace]

I'll report back with what I find / notice different such as the damages, Arts, any random buff, etc.. So until then. . .the waiting continues

 

[mario123007]

The waiting

It just kills me

I never like the patch that kilks replays and made some characters nerf or buff.

One change I would like to see but this is unrelated to Shulk, they had fix the Bowser grab suicide KO.I hope they fix Ganondorfs flame choke suicide KO too.

 

[AnotherDerp]

A buff that would be nice is to improve Shulk's rolls/spot dodge a bit in Speed. I mean, it would match it to the source material, right?

 

[Nammy12]

I never like the patch that kilks replays and made some characters nerf or buff.

One change I would like to see but this is unrelated to Shulk, they had fix the Bowser grab suicide KO.I hope they fix Ganondorfs flame choke suicide KO too.

You mean, Ganoncides would kill Dorf first?
I think thats a bit unfair.

Ganoncides already require a certain degree of risk since one person has to be offstage for it to work, and if he misses then there is a chance he's not coming back.
Bowsercides were just dumb since there was zero risk involved and was probably one of the only reasons people played him.

Besides, its pretty easy to avoid. Just don't stand by the ledge or hit him when he tries to use it.

 

[mario123007]

You mean, Ganoncides would kill Dorf first?
I think thats a bit unfair.

Ganoncides already require a certain degree of risk since one person has to be offstage for it to work, and if he misses then there is a chance he's not coming back.
Bowsercides were just dumb since there was zero risk involved and was probably one of the only reasons people played him.

Besides, its pretty easy to avoid. Just don't stand by the ledge or hit him when he tries to use it.

To me it is a bit similar to Bowsercide, it's a reliable move when it comes to 1 stock left match.
I big to differ, somewhat situation even I am a few distance away from the edge I will still get caught and I get the follow up down tilt. Or maybe they can just make Ganondorf horizontal movement slightly narrow when doing flame choke. I think that's legit.

 

[Waluigi is too big]

I never like the patch that kilks replays and made some characters nerf or buff.

One change I would like to see but this is unrelated to Shulk, they had fix the Bowser grab suicide KO.I hope they fix Ganondorfs flame choke suicide KO too.

If they ruin the slam dunk I'm quitting this game.

 

[Nammy12]

To me it is a bit similar to Bowsercide, it's a reliable move when it comes to 1 stock left match.
I big to differ, somewhat situation even I am a few distance away from the edge I will still get caught and I get the follow up down tilt. Or maybe they can just make Ganondorf horizontal movement slightly narrow when doing flame choke. I think that's legit.

Ganoncide is not a reliable way to close a stock.
First off, you need to be offstage for it to work. That means taking a risk that you won't be coming back due to his poor recovery. Plus, it puts him in helplessness if it doesn't connect. Bowsercide had little to no risk for high reward.

The startup is decently slow enough that you can simply sidestep on reaction and you can tech roll to prevent the dtilt followup (just watch out for the tech chases).

If the horizontal range is reduced then its going to hurt his recovery a lot. Especially if customs aren't allowed and he doesn't have dropkick. Besides, it doesn't go that far anyways.

I'll leave it at that since this is supposed to be about Shulk.

 

[Berserker.]

This thread is suppose to be about the Monado boy in 1.06 frondz.

 

[erico9001]

I'm moving some useful information for testing into this thread so that I, or anyone else testing, does not need to go back and forth between this thread and the metagame thread.

Landing Lag Frame Data (Source)

Move | Frames
N-air | 12
F-air | ~18
B-air | 21
U-air | 17
D-air | 25
Air Dodge | 22

Notes:

• F-air's landing lag is very close to U-air's landing lag, but F-air's lag finishes after U-air's lag (no lower than 18 frames)

Perfect Pivot Distances (Source) (measured & tested with Omega Windy Hill Zone's blocks)

Monado Art Stance | PP Distance (blocks)
Vanilla | 4
Jump | 4
Speed | 7
DSpeed | 8
HSpeed | 8.5?
Shield | 2
DShield | 2
HShield | 1.5

══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════

Shulk's Move-set Damage Values (WIP)​

This table was brought to you by the Shulk boards including Shulk players from all around. Thank you all to the max.

Patch v1.0.4 Shulk's damage increased slightly, so the damage numbers in the tables may change in time. The / symbol between numbers define the move having multiple hits, varying from 2 to 3 hits

Note: For this table, MArts & DMArts deal the same damage therefore these Arts have the same Damage Data:

Vanilla = Jump = DJump & HJump
Speed = DSpeed
Shield = DShield
Smash = DSmash

The exception is DBuster, since it's stronger than Buster. To show the difference, the (D) beside Buster in the table below will represent DBuster's damage in parenthesis with a different color to avoid confusion.

Buster ≠ DBuster

Move | Vanilla | Speed | Shield | (D) Buster | Smash
Jab combo | 3.5 / 3.5 / 5.3 | 2.8 / 2.8 / 4.24 | 2.45 / 2.45 / 3.71 | (5.39 / 5.39 / 8.162) 4.9 / 4.9 / 7.42 | 1.75 / 1.75 / 2.65
Jab-3 sourspot | 4.2 | 3.36 | 2.94 | (6.468) 5.88 | 2.1
Dash Attack | 11 | 8.8 | 7.7 | (16.94) 15.4 | 5.5
F-tilt Blade | 13 | 10.4 | 9.1 | (20.02) 18.2 | 6.5
F-tilt Beam | 11.5 | 9.2 | 8.05 | (17.71) 16.1 | 5.75
U-tilt Blade | 8 | 6.4 | 5.6 | (12.32) 11.2 | 4
U-tilt Beam | 7 | 5.6 | 4.9 | (10.78) 9.8 | 3.5
D-tilt Blade | 9 | 7.2 | 6.3 | (13.86) 12.6 | 4.5
D-tilt Beam | 7 | 5.6 | 4.9 | (10.78) 9.8 | 3.5
F-smash 1st / 2nd | 5.5 / 13 | 4.4 / 10.4 | 3.85 / 9.1 | (8.47 / 20.02) 7.7 / 18.2 | 2.75 / 6.5
F-smash 2nd | 11.5 | 9.2 | 8.05 | (17.71) 16.1 | 5.75
U-smash 1st / 2nd | 4.5 / 13.5 | 3.6 / 10.8 | 3.15 / 9.45 | (6.93 / 20.79) 6.3 / 18.9 | 2.25 / 6.75
D-smash Front Blades | 14 / 10 / 6 | 11.2 / 8 / 4.8 | 9.8 / 7 / 4.2 | (21.56 / 15.4 / 9.24) 19.6 / 14 / 8.4 | 7 / 5 / 3
D-smash Front Beams | 11 / 8 / 4 | 8.8 / 6.4 / 3.2 | 7.7 / 5.6 / 2.8 | (16.94 / 12.32 / 6.16) 15.4 / 11.2 / 5.6 | 5.5 / 4 / 2
D-smash Back Blades | 12 / 8 | 9.6 / 6.4 | 8.4 / 5.6 | (18.48 / 12.32) 16.8 / 11.2 | 6 / 4
D-smash Back Beams | 10 / 6 | 8 / 4.8 | 7 / 4.2 | (15.4 / 9.24) 14 / 8.4 | 5 / 3
N-air Blade | 7 | 5.6 | 4.9 | (10.78) 9.8 | 3.5
N-air Beam | 8 | 6.4 | 5.6 | (12.32) 11.2 | 4
F-air Blade | 7.5 | 6 | 4.9 | (11.55) 10.5 | 3.75
F-air Beam | 6 | 4.8 | 4.2 | (9.24) 8.4 | 3
B-air Blade | 12 | 9.6 | 8.4 | (18.48) 16.8 | 6
B-air Beam | 8 | 6.4 | 5.6 | (12.32) 11.2 | 4
U-air 1st / 2nd | 5 / 10 | 4 / 8 | 3.5 / 7 | (7.7 / 15.4) 7 / 14 | 2.5 / 5
U-air 2nd | 7.5 | 6 | 5.25 | (11.55) 10.5 | 3.75
D-air 1st / 2nd | 7 / 11 | 5.6 / 8.8 | 4.9 / 7.7 | (10.78 / 16.94) 9.8 / 15.4 | 3.5 / 5.5
D-air 1st / 2nd | 5 / 10 | 4 / 8 | 3.5 / 7 | (7.7 / 15.4) 7 / 14 | 2.5 / 5
Side-B Front Hilt & Beam | 9 | 7.2 | 6.3 | (13.86) 12.6 | 4.5
Side-B Front Blade | 10 | 8 | 7 | (15.4) 14 | 5
Side-B Back Hilt & Beam | 14 | 11.2 | 9.8 | (21.56) 19.6 | 7
Side-B Back ( Blade ) | 16 | 12.8 | 11.2 | (24.64) 22.4 | 8
Side-B Back Tipper Grounded | 13 | 10.4 | 9.1 | (20.02) 18.2 | 6.5
Up-B 1st starting hit / 2nd | 6 / 5.5 | 4.8 / 4.4 | 4.2 / 3.85 | (9.42 / 8.47) 8.4 / 7.7 | 3 / 2.75
Up-B 1st later hit | 5 | 4 | 3.5 | (7.7) 7 | 2.5
Down-B sweetspot | 10 | 8 | 7 | (15.4) 14 | 5
Down-B sourspot | 7 | 5.6 | 4.9 | (10.78) 9.8 | 3.5
Down-B Forwarded sweet | 13 | 10.4 | 9.1 | (20.02) 18.2 | 6.5
Down-B Forwarded sour | 10 | 8 | 7 | (15.4) 14 | 5
Pummel | 3 | 2.4 | 2.1 | (4.62) 4.2 | 1.5
F-throw | 3 / 8 | 2.4 / 6.4 | 2.1 / 4.9 | (4.62 / 12.32) 4.2 / 11.2 | 1.5 / 4
B-throw | 3 / 9 | 2.4 / 7.2 | 2.1 / 6.3 | (4.62 / 13.86) 4.2 / 12.6 | 1.5 / 4.5
U-throw | 3 / 4 | 2.4 / 3.2 | 2.1 / 2.8 | (4.62 / 6.16) 4.2 / 5.6 | 1.5 / 2
D-throw | 3 / 4 | 2.4 / 3.2 | 2.1 / 2.8 | (4.62 / 6.16) 4.2 / 5.6 | 1.5 / 2
Front & Back Floor Attack | 7 | 5.6 | 4.9 | (10.78) 9.8 | 3.5
Front & Back Trip Attack | 5 | 4 | 3.5 | (7.7) 7 | 2.5
Ledge attack | 7 | 5.6 | 4.9 | (10.78) 9.8 | 3.5

════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════
Below are HMArts aka Hyper Monado Arts. HJump isn't listed because it deals the same damage Vanilla Jump & DJump deal.

Move | HSpeed | HShield | HBuster | HSmash
Jab combo | 2 / 2 / 3 | 1.96 / 1.96 / 2.968 | 5.88 / 5.88 / 8.904 | 1.4 / 1.4 / 2.12
Jab-3 sourspot | 2 - 3 | 2.352 | 7.056 | 1.68
Dash Attack | 7 | 6.16 | 18.48 | 4.4
F-tilt Blade | 8 | 7.28 | 21.84 | 5.2
F-tilt Beam | 7 | 6.44 | 19.32 | 4.6
U-tilt Blade | 5 | 4.48 | 13.44 | 3.2
U-tilt Beam | 4 | 3.92 | 11.76 | 2.8
D-tilt Blade | 5 | 5.04 | 15.12 | 3.6
D-tilt Beam | 4 | 3.92 | 11.76 | 2.8
F-smash 1st / 2nd ( Blade ) | 3 / 11 | 3.08 / 7.28 | 9.24 / 21.84 | 2.2 / 5.2
F-smash 2nd | 7 | 6.44 | 19.32 | 4.6
U-smash 1st / 2nd | 2 / 9 | 2.52 / 7.56 | 7.56 / 22.68 | 1.8 / 5.4
D-smash Front Blades | 8 / ? / ? | 7.84 / 5.6 / 3.36 | 23.52 / 16.8 / 10.08 | 5.6 / 4 / 2.4
D-smash Front Beams | 7 / ? / 2 | 6.16 / 4.48 / 2.24 | 18.48 / 13.44 / 6.72 | 4.4 / 3.2 / 1.6
D-smash Back Blades | 7 / ? | 6.72 / 4.48 | 20.16 / 13.44 | 4.8 / 3.2
D-smash Back Beams | 6 / ? | 5.6 / 3.36 | 16.8 / 10.08 | 4 / 2.4
N-air Blade | 4 | 3.92 | 11.76 | 2.8
N-air Beam | 5 | 4.48 | 13.44 | 3.2
F-air Blade | 4 | 4.2 | 12.6 | 3
F-air Beam | 3 | 3.36 | 10.08 | * 2.4
B-air Blade | 7 | 6.72 | 20.16 | 4.8
B-air Beam | 5 | 4.48 | 13.44 | 3.2
U-air 1st / 2nd | 3 / 6 | 2.8 / 5.6 | 8.4 / 16.8 | 2 / 4
U-air 2nd | 4 | 4.2 | 12.6 | 3
D-air 1st / 2nd | 4 / 7 | 3.92 / 6.16 | 11.76 / 18.48 | 2.8 / 4.4
D-air 1st / 2nd | 3 / 6 | 2.8 / 5.6 | 8.4 / 16.8 | 2 / 4
Side-B Front Hilt or Beam | 5 | 5.04 | 15.12 | 3.6
Side-B Front Blade | 6 | 5.6 | 16.8 | 4
Side-B Back Hilt or Beam | 8 | 7.84 | 23.52 | 5.6
Side-B Back Blade | 10 | 8.96 | 26.88 | 6.4
Side-B Back Tipper Grounded | 8 | 7.28 | 21.84 | 5.2
Up-B 1st starting hit / 2nd | 3 / 4 | 3.36 / 3.08 | 10.08 / 9.24 | 2.4 / 2.2
Up-B 1st later hit | 3 | 2.8 | 8.4 | 2
Down-B sweetspot | 6 | 5.6 | 16.8 | 4
Down-B sourspot | 4 | 3.92 | 11.76 | 2.8
Down-B Forwarded sweetspot | 8 | 7.28 | 21.84 | 5.2
Down-B Forwarded sourspot | 6 | 5.6 | 16.8 | 4
Pummel | 1 - 2 | 1.68 | 5.04 | 1.2
F-throw | 1 / 6 | 1.68 / 4.48 | 5.04 / 13.44 | 1.2 / 3.2
B-Throw | 1 / 6 | 1.68 / 5.04 | 5.04 / 15.12 | 1.2 / 3.6
U-throw | 1 / 3 | 1.68 / 2.24 | 5.04 / 6.72 | 1.2 / 1.6
D-throw | 1 / 3 | 1.68 / 2.24 | 5.04 / 6.72 | 1.2 / 1.6
Front & Back Floor Attack | 4 | 3.92 | 11.76 | 2.8
Front & Back Trip Attack | 3 | 2.8 | 8.4 | 2
Ledge attack | 4 | 3.92 | 11.76 | 2.8

════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════

Note: I highly suggest you read the Shulk-Exclusive Abbreviation list if you don't know the abbreviations in the two tables below.​

This table's a recap of the first table but instead with Custom Specials. The MArts & DMArts that deal the same damage are:

Vanilla = Jump = DJump = HJump
Speed = DSpeed
Shield = DShield
Smash = DSmash

The only MArt & DMArt that doesn't share this pattern is Buster & DBuster because DBuster has a stronger damage multiplier than Buster, so the (D) like in the first table, will also represent DBuster's damage in parenthesis here as well.

Buster ≠ DBuster

Custom Special Move | Vanilla | Speed | Shield | (D) Buster | Smash
BSL Front Startup Hilt | 4 | 3.2 | 2.8 | (6.16) 5.6 | 2
BSL Front Startup Blade | 6 | 4.8 | 4.2 | (9.24) 8.4 | 3
BSL Back Startup Hilt | 11 | 8.8 | 7.7 | (16.94) 15.4 | 5.5
BSL Back Startup Blade | 12 | 9.6 | 8.4 | (18.48) 16.8 | 6
BSL Front Falling Blade | 10 | 8 | 7 | (15.4) 14 | 5
BSL Front Falling Beam | 9 | 7.2 | 6.3 | (13.86) 12.6 | 4.5
BSL Back Falling Blade | 16 | 12.8 | 11.2 | (24.64) 22.4 | 8
BSL Back Falling Beam | 14 | 11.2 | 9.8 | (21.56) 19.6 | 7
BSL Front Landing (Unknown) | 10 | 8 | 7 | (15.4) 14 | 5
BSL Front Landing Tipper | 8 | 6.4 | 5.6 | (12.32) 11.2 | 4
BSL Back Landing (Unknown) | 18 | 14.4 | 12.6 | (27.72) 25.2 | 9
BSL Back Landing Tipper | 16 | 12.8 | 11.2 | (24.64) 22.4 | 8

BSC Front Startup Hilt | 4 | 3.2 | 2.8 | (6.16) 5.6 | 2
BSC Front Startup Blade | 6 | 4.8 | 4.2 | (9.24) 8.4 | 3
BSC Back Startup Hilt | 13 | 10.4 | 9.1 | (20.02) 18.2 | 6.5
BSC Back Startup Blade | 15 | 12 | 10.5 | (23.1) 21 | 7.5
BSC Front Falling Blade & Beam ? | 4 | 3.2 | 2.8 | (6.16) 5.6 | 2
BSC Front Falling Tipper | 3.5 | 2.8 | 2.45 | (5.39) 4.9 | 1.75
BSC Back Falling Blade & Beam ? | 11 | 8.8 | 7.7 | (16.94) 15.4 | 5.5
BSC Back Falling Tipper | 9 | 7.2 | 6.3 | (13.86) 12.6 | 4.5
BSC Front Tipper Ending Slide | 3 | ? | ? | ? | ?
BSC Back Tipper Ending | 12 | ? | ? | ? | ?
BSC Back Slide | 6 | ? | ? | ? | ?






AAS 1st starting hit / 2nd | 6 / 8 | 4.8 / 6.4 | 4.2 / 5.6 | (9.24 / 12.32) 8.4 / 11.2 | 3 / 4
AAS 1st later hit | 5 | 4 | 3.5 | (7.7) 7 | 2.5

MAS 1st starting hit / 2nd | 9 / 10 | 7.2 / 8 | 6.3 / 7 | (13.86 / 15.4 12.6 / 14 | 4.5 / 5
MAS 1st later hit | 7 | 5.6 | 4.9 | (10.78) 9.8 | 3.5

DV sweetspot | 8 | 6.4 | 5.6 | (12.32) 11.2 | 4
DV sourspot | 5 | 4 | 3.5 | (7.7) 7 | 2.5
DV Forwarded sweetspot | 11 | 8.8 | 7.7 | (16.94) 15.4 | 5.5
DV Forwarded sourspot | 8 | 6.4 | 5.6 | (12.32) 11.2 | 4

PV sweetspot | 17 | 13.6 | 11.9 | (26.18) 23.8 | 8.5
PV sourspot | 14 | 11.2 | 9.8 | (21.56) 19.6 | 7
PV Forwarded sweetspot | 20 | 16 | 14 | (30.8) 28 | 10
PV Forwarded sourspot | 17 | 13.6 | 11.9 | (26.18) 23.8 | 8.5

Custom Special Move | HSpeed | HShield | HBuster | HSmash
BSL Front Startup Hilt | 2 | 2.24 | 6.72 | 1.6
BSL Front Startup Blade | 3 | 3.36 | 10.08 | 2.4
BSL Back Startup Hilt | 7 | 6.16 | 18.48 | 4.4
BSL Back Startup Blade | 7 | 6.72 | 20.16 | 4.8
BSL Front Falling Blade | 6 | 5.6 | 16.8 | 4
BSL Front Falling Beam | 5 | 5.04 | 15.12 | 3.6
BSL Back Falling Blade |10 | 8.96 | 26.88 | 6.4
BSL Back Falling Beam | 8 | 7.84 | 23.52 | 5.6
BSL Front Landing (Unknown) | 6 | 5.6 | 16.8 | 4
BSL Front Landing Tipper | 5 | 4.48 | 13.44 | 3.2
BSL Back Landing (Unknown) | 11 | 10.08 | 30.24 | 7.2
BSL Back Landing Tipper | 10 | 8.96 | 26.88 | 6.4

BSC Front Startup Hilt |
BSC Front Startup Blade |
BSC Back Startup Hilt |
BSC Back Startup Blade |
BSC Front Falling Blade & Beam ? |
BSC Front Falling Tipper |
BSC Back Falling Blade & Beam ? |
BSC Back Falling Tipper |
BSC Front Tipper Ending Slide |
BSC Back Tipper Ending |
BSC Back Slide |





AAS 1st early hit / 2nd | 3 / 5 | 3.36 / 4.48 | 10.08 / 13.44 | 2.4 / 3.2
AAS 1st later hit | 3 | 2.8 | 8.4 | 2

MAS 1st early hit / 2nd | 5 / 7 | 5.04 / 5.6 | 15.12 / 16.8 | 3.6 / 4
MAS 1st later hit | 4 | 3.92 | 11.76 | 2.8

DV sweetspot | 5 | 4.48 | 13.44 | 3.2
DV sourspot | 3 | 2.8 | 8.4 | 2
DV Forwarded sweetspot | 7 | 6.16 | 18.48 | 4.4
DV Forwarded sourspot | 5 | 4.48 | 13.44 | 3.2

PV sweetspot | 10 | 9.52 | 28.56 | 6.8
PV sourspot | 8 | 7.84 | 23.52 | 5.6
PV Forwarded sweetspot | 12 | 11.2 | 33.6 | 8
PV Forwarded sourspot | 10 | 9.52 | 28.56 | 6.8

Thanks for Feeling​

This entire post is all @ KuroganeHammer 's Monado Data under progress.
DEFAULT MONADO ARTS

Monado Art | Damage Taken | Damage Dealt | Weight Change | Jump Height | Ground Speed | Air Speed | Fall Speed | Shield Health
翔(Jump) | +22% (1.22×) | None. | None. | + | | ++ | ++ 疾 (Speed) | None. | −20% (0.8×) | None. | – | + | + 盾(Shield) | −33% (0.67×) | −30% (0.7×) | +44 | – | – | – | | + 斬(Buster) | +13% (1.13×) | +40% (1.4×) | None
撃(Smash) | None. | –50% (0.5×) | –12.5

DECISIVE MONADO ARTS

Monado Art | Damage Taken | Damage Dealt | Weight Change | Jump Height | Ground Speed | Air Speed | Fall Speed | Shield Health
翔(Jump) | +22% (1.22x) | None. | None. | ++ | | +++ | +++ 疾 (Speed) | None. | –20% (0.8x) | None. | – | ++ | ++ 盾(Shield) | –39.7% (0.603x) | -30% (0.7x) | ? | – | – | – | | ++ 斬(Buster) | +13% (1.13x) | +54% (1.54x) | None.
撃(Smash) | None. | –50% (0.5x) | -12.5

HYPER MONADO ARTS

Monado Art | Damage Taken | Damage Dealt | Weight Change | Jump Height | Ground Speed | Air Speed | Fall Speed | Shield Health
翔(Jump) | +46.4% (1.464×) | None. | None. | ++ | | ++++ | ++++ 疾 (Speed) | None. | –37.0% (0.63×) | None. | - - | +++ | +++ 盾(Shield) | –47.4% (0.536×) | –44% (0.56×) | +87 | - - | - - | - - | | +++ 斬(Buster) | +35.0% (1.35x) | +68% (1.68×) | None.
撃(Smash) | None. | –60% (0.4×) | –35

VISION
Vision is a counter which deals damage based on the damage you receive. Inputting a forward direction while countering an attack will execute a different counter attack.

Default Vision:
Standing Counter: 10% on the middle of the blade, 7% on the tip of the blade.
Forward Counter: 13%
Damage Multiplier: 1.3×

Vision 2 = Dash Vision:
Standing Counter: 8% on the middle of the blade, 5% on the tip of the blade.
Forward Counter: 11%
Damage Multiplier: 1.0×

Vision 3 = Power Vision:
Standing Counter: 17% on the middle of the blade, 14% on the tip of the blade.
Forward Counter: 20%
Damage Multiplier: 1.5×

Damage Calculator for Vision: Damage of countered move × 1.3 × Monado Art Damage Multiplier

The idea with this is that the game takes the base percentage, then multiplies by the Monado Arte multiplier, then the freshness multiplier.

Example:

Forward throw does 11% base damage. You are in Monado Buster mode, and your forward throw is fresh.

Damage = b × m × s × c

b = base damage
m = monado stance multiplier
s = stale multiplier
c = charge multiplier

So for fthrow, your calcs look like this: 11 × 1.4 × 1.05 × 1 = 16.17%

Counter Damage Mechanics are coming soon~

Maybe, in preparation, somebody could get a 1.05 kill percent for vision and power vision. You could then reference to that once the update comes out. Make sure to do it on somebody who is extremely unlikely to have his weight changed (ie. duck hunt).

 

[Peppa]

Anyone have a time estimate on when the patch is out? I'm usually up late and would love to start on frame data ASAP to help everyone should there be changes to our main man

 

[FOcast]

Anyone have a time estimate on when the patch is out? I'm usually up late and would love to start on frame data ASAP to help everyone should there be changes to our main man

From Reddit:
>Nintendo has stated that Super Smash Bros online functionality will go down from 11:50pm PST to 1:00am PST.

Best guess is that the patch will be available at 1:00am PST (12 hours and 23 minutes from now).

 

[mario123007]

If they ruin the slam dunk I'm quitting this game.

Okay... ket's hope it won't be changed then

Ganoncide is not a reliable way to close a stock.
First off, you need to be offstage for it to work. That means taking a risk that you won't be coming back due to his poor recovery. Plus, it puts him in helplessness if it doesn't connect. Bowsercide had little to no risk for high reward.

The startup is decently slow enough that you can simply sidestep on reaction and you can tech roll to prevent the dtilt followup (just watch out for the tech chases).

If the horizontal range is reduced then its going to hurt his recovery a lot. Especially if customs aren't allowed and he doesn't have dropkick. Besides, it doesn't go that far anyways.

I'll leave it at that since this is supposed to be about Shulk.

I mean when he grabs an opponent and how much he can move horizontally, not his flame choke range.
Yeah...I'll stop here, sorry for putting up Ganondorf here.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

This thread won't be used when the patch comes out, just saying.

 

[DoritoCrumbMan]

Wonder when that Wii Fit Trainer buff is coming

any day now
*cries in corner* (i love her but her d-smash is disappointing lol)

 

[erico9001]

This thread won't be used when the patch comes out, just saying.

Even if there are no changes to Shulk, the thread will be used to collect results. 'Mallc still is in' or 'the yoshi glitch still works' are things that would be said. This will be the first thread I go to when the update comes, so I will be using it as a resource for what has already been found.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Even if there are no changes to Shulk, the thread will be used to collect results

Not this one

 

[erico9001]

Not this one

Are you planning on locking it or something?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Yes.

 

[Hydreigon360]

I

If they buff his frame data and attack speed he's going to usurp Diddy Kong.

So they probably won't. And I like my challenging Shulk style right now, so my only request would be for Air Slash to auto-snap the ledge and for an improved dash attack. Everything else is golden. But I'll be happy to see buffs, if there are any.

I wan't Sakurai to buff his frame data and attack speed slightly, but not too much

 

[Berserker.]

Although the thread is not accessible yet, all discovered changes (All require proof btw) will be sent to the thread. This thread will be closed when the new 1.06 thread is opened in the Wii U/3DS competitive discussion

Link will be posted when the thread is made/approved

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Actually I've changed my mind, discussion of 1.0.6 changes can be done in this thread and then confirmed changes can be sent to the main thread.

This should reduce clutter.

 

[Berserker.]

Actually I've changed my mind, discussion of 1.0.6 changes can be done in this thread and then confirmed changes can be sent to the main thread.

This should reduce clutter.

Alrighty then. Thanks Aero

I'm downloading the version atm. Let's do this.

Also, please notify which version you are testing on (blastzones are different on each console version)

 

[KuroganeHammer]

1 GIG DOWNLOAD ENJOY GURLS

 

[Zacko]

Reddit is already full of comments like:
"I think Shulks counter got nerfed. But idk I haven't played smash 4 in awhile."
"In exchange for less upair landing lag and better bair KB I think. If that really is the case I am not even mad.
E: B-Throw got buffed I think too."
"Shulks smash attacks have been MAJORLY buffed"
"More damaging smash attaks and more damaging throws. He feel any faster to you?"
"shulks art landing lag cancel is still in"

Source:
http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/32nssk/community_patch_notes_discoveries_thread/


I'm getting a bit excited by this conversation, but I will assume that they are just imagining it until we have some actual data.

Shulk's MALLC is still in.

• Yep ))))) Also he does quite a bit more damage on some of his moves (aka smash attacks and back throwing) Also does he feel faster to you? like his ariels?
  • It might be a placebo for now, but he seems faster on his aerials, yeah.
    • His neutral air and fair are much faster
      • Yup. And I think the other aerials got landing lag buffs, and bair I think has gotten a KB buff.

 

[Neo Zero]

Anyone try this stuff out yet?