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1.06 Patch discussion/findings

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Jun 8, 2009
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This thread will be all about the new patch 1.06 which is expected to be released at April 15, 2015. All findings and changes pertaining to Shulk will be posted here in this thread (OP)

Some rules about posting discoveries/findings. We're only putting the listed changes as confirmed IF

1) There's proof behind the said change
2) The said change is backed by many sources/witness accounts

For proof, we're pertaining to:
- GIF's
- Numbers backing up the claim
- Videos
- Claims from reliable researchers/testers

For KO percentages, please label if you tested it on the 3DS or Wii U version

Verified
- MALLC is still in
- Monado Art dash cancel is still in

- "All art" glitch has been removed

Unverified
- F-air is faster
- N-air is faster
- All aerials have lower landing lag

- Vision's knockback was reduced

Rejected
- Every single claim about a change in damage output
- U-smash is faster
- F-smash has more knockback and is also faster
- D-smash is faster

 
Last edited:
D

Deleted member

Guest
I hope they just leave Shulk alone in the upcoming patch. Shulk's perfectly fine in my opinion. Doesn't really need buffs (though I won't say no to them), or nerfs.

I don't mind a small thing like maybe have a few active frames removed from Vision, but I really hope some thought was given to this patch. Leave MALLC alone pls
 

erico9001

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Just for reference, that update will be on April 15th.
 

mario123007

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Revently there will always a ptach being released every two months that will cause your old replays unviewable, and I don't like this.
Shulk got the most buff in the last balance patch, so I hope he doesn't get nerfed. Actually I hooe just patch is just a slightly character balance rather than one or two character got a major buff and a character got a major nerf, just fix some glitches, and gameplay mechanics.
 

erico9001

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Maybe fix the typo Monado Buster -> Monado Enchant
 

Piford

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I'm pretty confident Shulk is going to get buffed because he isn't used much on online modes (both For Glory and For Fun) and when he is he doesn't perform well (Backslash off the edge is a stereotype for a reason). On top of that, he has very little representation in any regions competitive scene (only 9B really comes to mind as a notable payer), and is considered one of the worst characters in Japan. This leads me to believe that he will be receiving further buffs, hopefully that make him a much better character.

What I think he needs is just for his tilts to be a bit faster and for his fair and up air to have less landing lag. Also, all his aerials need better auto cancels, as sometimes I'm completely finished with my attack and land only to find out that I still suffer landing lag. Of course, anything more is appreciated, but that's already a lot of things that would be better. Just some of those would help him out a lot though.
 

Goesasu

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I dont think shulk needs any kind of buffs, IMO he is fine.

If anything, make backslash come out faster but thats it.
 
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I'm pretty confident Shulk is going to get buffed because he isn't used much on online modes (both For Glory and For Fun) and when he is he doesn't perform well (Backslash off the edge is a stereotype for a reason). On top of that, he has very little representation in any regions competitive scene (only 9B really comes to mind as a notable payer), and is considered one of the worst characters in Japan. This leads me to believe that he will be receiving further buffs, hopefully that make him a much better character.

What I think he needs is just for his tilts to be a bit faster and for his fair and up air to have less landing lag. Also, all his aerials need better auto cancels, as sometimes I'm completely finished with my attack and land only to find out that I still suffer landing lag. Of course, anything more is appreciated, but that's already a lot of things that would be better. Just some of those would help him out a lot though.
Gnes is a notable Shulk player but other than those 2, there aren't much Shulk players out there

I don't really want much. I think Shulk is fine as is. Maybe some buffs to shield art (and maybe buster?). Slightly faster attacks would be great. I'm perfectly fine with his aerials. Maybe make them a bit faster too (especially b-air) but I'm fine with their landing lag.
 

Peppa

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I wouldn't mind the backslash change to grab the ledge, I never even thought about it that way.

That said, some tweaks if I could hope for buffwise is maybe a tiny bit faster jab, a lot of characters can just grab you out of jab depending on %s, and yes I know it's my fault for trying to jab in those situations, but still o;. I also wouldn't mind a tiny bit more shield pressure, since at higher levels of play he's so shield grabbable it can boil down to just focusing on speeds amazing grab game, with empty hops mixed in.
Realistically if he recieved any nerfs, I REALLY wouldn't be surprised if they did away with MALLC, it just seems like a tech that they wouldn't want in, given their previous direction.
 

FOcast

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Really the only change that I want is for Vision to hit more consistently after activation. As it is, it's unreliable at best against aerials and projectiles, and sometimes just gets you punished on clean hits.
 
Last edited:

orochiwolf

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Things they'll most likely remove:

- Yoshi + Shulk glitch

Things they'll most likely nerf:

- Shield Monado weight multiplier.

Things they'll most likely buff:

- Mighty Air Slash to hit more reliably.
- Hitbox at the startup of ForwardAir is not present even though there is a visual indicator of his sword swinging. Maybe add the hitbox? They fixed Meta Knight's hitboxes based on the visual indicators of his sword in the last patch, if I recall correctly.
- Increased knockback of Backslash hitting the back of the enemy.
- DownAir adjusted to hit more reliably (like UpSmash).

Shulk does not need damage output like he did at the start of the game. Mainly, he needs to have his attacks hit more reliaby, for example, a jab that starts up one frame quicker or an UpTilt with a slightly extended frontal hitbox.
 
Last edited:

erico9001

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I'm expecting nothing to change for Shulk except maybe a patch to the Yoshi Shulk glitch and possibly a patch to the MALLC. However, I will still gladly take buffs and will still facepalm at any nerfs.
 

Masonomace

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Things they'll most likely nerf:

- Shield Monado weight multiplier.
If this honestly happens to all 3 of the Shield Arts, then they had better get Speed Art's traction & better Shield DI to emphasize on the bubble shield aspect.
 
Last edited:

orochiwolf

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If MALLC is patched out, Sakurai doesn't want ANY advanced techniques in Smash Bros. and that would be a sad future for the game.
 

Neo Zero

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I don't really expect much to change honestly, as Shulk to me strikes me as an under the radar character to someone like Sakurai.

Of course, the bias in me hopes for nothing but buffs lol
 

FreedomTP

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To be honest, I really only want maybe a bit more hitstun on some moves, like nair or dthrow.

Mostly 'cause I'd like some more reliable combos and kill setups.
 
Last edited:

Plain Yogurt

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My gut is telling me the stats from the Monado Arts are going to be adjusted again just because that seems like something that'll just keep getting tuned to keep all of them relevant.
 

MarioFireRed

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I'm perfectly content with Shulk as he is right now, though I'd kinda miss if MALLC got patched out because it gave Shulk something to protect himself from juggles outside of airdodging and drifting towards the ledge or a platform.

That said I'd definitely welcome any and all buffs coming our way.
 

Ryuji

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Would be fine with a nerf to Vision's duration to discourage incessant use, and on the other hand I'm still of the opinion that Speed ought to give him faster attack speed.
 

Piford

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Would be fine with a nerf to Vision's duration to discourage incessant use, and on the other hand I'm still of the opinion that Speed ought to give him faster attack speed.
Visions duration already decays after each use to discourage spamming.
 

Peppa

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I doubt they'll change Vision, if anything they'll nerf power vision. Even with the length of it, it still can be spot dodged or avoided decently
 

Masonomace

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Out of anything they could nerf, it would definitely be Power Vision & it wouldn't be that surprising to me.
 

Piford

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I really doubt they'll nerf power vision because the game is meant to be balanced around all kinda of play and if you are playing casually and spamming vision then power vision sucks. If it does get a nerf, it'll be to make it decay even quicker but I doubt it.
 
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My gut is telling me the stats from the Monado Arts are going to be adjusted again just because that seems like something that'll just keep getting tuned to keep all of them relevant.
Oh god. Testing the multipliers was painful enough for me
 

Neo Zero

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Oh god. Testing the multipliers was painful enough for me
I always enjoy the unscientific approach of "it hits harder"

Btw Berserk, do we have frame data to compare to the new patch once it drops?
 
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I always enjoy the unscientific approach of "it hits harder"

Btw Berserk, do we have frame data to compare to the new patch once it drops?
Yep. It's right over here (also in the metagame thread but let's place it here)

  1. BEGIN shulk
  2. **********
  3. Jab1
  4. Frame 5- 6: 3.5% 100f/40w 60°
  5. Frame 5- 6: 3.5% 100f/40w 70°
  6. Frame 5- 6: 3.5% 100f/40w 88°
  7. Max Damage: 3.5%
  8. Enables transition to next jab state on real frame 11

  9. Jab2
  10. Frame 5- 7: 3.5% 100f/52w 66°
  11. Frame 5- 7: 3.5% 100f/52w 70°
  12. Frame 5- 7: 3.5% 100f/52w 80°
  13. Max Damage: 7%
  14. Enables transition to next jab state on real frame 12

  15. Jab3
  16. Frame 12-13: 5.3% 60b/100g (KO@ 257%) 50° Slash
  17. Frame 14-14: 4.2% 70b/100g (KO@ 294%) 70° Slash
  18. Max Damage: 12.3%

  19. Dash Attack
  20. Frame 15-16: 11% 70b/80g (KO@ 182%) 60° Slash
  21. Max Damage: 11%

  22. F-tilt (normal)
  23. Frame 12-13: 13% 30b/92g (KO@ 140%) 361° Slash
  24. Frame 12-13: 11.5% 30b/92g (KO@ 159%) 361° Slash
  25. Max Damage: 13%

  26. U-tilt
  27. Frame 11-23: 8% 70b/90g (KO@ 185%) 85° Slash
  28. Frame 13-23: 7% 65b/85g (KO@ 241%) 108° Slash
  29. Max Damage: 8%

  30. D-tilt
  31. Frame 10-11: 9% 45b/90g (KO@ 229%) 60° 0.3-Trip Slash
  32. Frame 10-11: 7% 45b/90g (KO@ 284%) 60° 0.3-Trip Slash
  33. Max Damage: 9%

  34. F-smash (high)
  35. Frame 14-16: 5.5% 100f/28w 10° 1.5-Hitlag
  36. Frame 14-16: 5.5% 100f/28w 40° 1.5-Hitlag
  37. Frame 14-16: 5.5% 100f/28w 78° 1.5-Hitlag
  38. Frame 23-23: 13% 30b/125g (KO@ 94%) 361° 2.0-Hitlag Pierce
  39. Frame 23-23: 11.5% 30b/125g (KO@ 108%) 361° 2.0-Hitlag Pierce
  40. Max Damage: 18.5%
  41. Smash charge window on real frame 9

  42. F-smash (normal)
  43. Frame 14-15: 5.5% 100f/28w 10° 1.5-Hitlag
  44. Frame 14-15: 5.5% 100f/28w 40° 1.5-Hitlag
  45. Frame 14-15: 5.5% 100f/28w 78° 1.5-Hitlag
  46. Frame 23-23: 13% 30b/115g (KO@ 104%) 361° 2.0-Hitlag Pierce
  47. Frame 23-23: 11.5% 30b/115g (KO@ 119%) 361° 2.0-Hitlag Pierce
  48. Max Damage: 18.5%
  49. Smash charge window on real frame 9

  50. F-smash (low)
  51. Frame 14-16: 5.5% 100f/28w 10° 1.5-Hitlag
  52. Frame 14-16: 5.5% 100f/28w 40° 1.5-Hitlag
  53. Frame 14-16: 5.5% 100f/28w 78° 1.5-Hitlag
  54. Frame 23-23: 13% 30b/115g (KO@ 104%) 361° 2.0-Hitlag Pierce
  55. Frame 23-23: 11.5% 30b/115g (KO@ 119%) 361° 2.0-Hitlag Pierce
  56. Max Damage: 18.5%
  57. Smash charge window on real frame 9

  58. U-smash
  59. Frame 18-21: 4.5% 100f/110w 105° Ground-Target-Only
  60. Frame 18-29: 4.5% 40f/70w 92°
  61. Frame 18-29: 4.5% 100f/60w 92°
  62. Frame 30-33: 13.5% 45b/98g (KO@ 124%) 89° Pierce
  63. Max Damage: 13.5%
  64. Smash charge window on real frame 11

  65. D-smash
  66. Frame 18-19: 14% 50b/95g (KO@ 113%) 45° Slash
  67. Frame 18-19: 14% 50b/95g (KO@ 130%) 55° Slash
  68. Frame 18-19: 14% 50b/95g (KO@ 106%) 361° Slash
  69. Frame 18-19: 11% 50b/95g (KO@ 137%) 361° Slash
  70. Frame 23-24: 12% 50b/95g (KO@ 120%) 45° Slash
  71. Frame 23-24: 12% 50b/95g (KO@ 139%) 55° Slash
  72. Frame 23-24: 12% 50b/95g (KO@ 112%) 361° Slash
  73. Frame 23-24: 10% 50b/95g (KO@ 137%) 361° Slash
  74. Frame 28-29: 10% 55b/90g (KO@ 137%) 45° Slash
  75. Frame 28-29: 10% 55b/90g (KO@ 160%) 55° Slash
  76. Frame 28-29: 10% 55b/90g (KO@ 127%) 361° Slash
  77. Frame 28-29: 8% 55b/90g (KO@ 162%) 361° Slash
  78. Frame 35-36: 8% 60b/90g (KO@ 144%) 361° Slash
  79. Frame 35-36: 6% 60b/90g (KO@ 193%) 361° Slash
  80. Frame 41-42: 4% 60b/90g (KO@ 266%) 361° Slash
  81. Max Damage: 50%
  82. Smash charge window on real frame 5

  83. Nair
  84. Frame 13-30: 8% 40b/100g (KO@ 212%) 50° Slash
  85. Frame 13-30: 7% 40b/100g (KO@ 237%) 50° Slash
  86. Max Damage: 8%
  87. Enables transition to Nair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 1
  88. Cancels transition to Nair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 80

  89. Fair
  90. Frame 14-18: 7.5% 46b/100g (KO@ 191%) 361° Slash
  91. Frame 14-18: 6% 46b/100g (KO@ 230%) 361° Slash
  92. Max Damage: 7.5%
  93. Enables transition to Fair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 1
  94. Cancels transition to Fair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 57

  95. Bair
  96. Frame 18-22: 12% 35b/100g (KO@ 134%) 361° Slash
  97. Frame 21-22: 8% 35b/100g (KO@ 197%) 361° Slash
  98. Max Damage: 12%
  99. Enables transition to Bair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 1
  100. Cancels transition to Bair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 79

  101. Uair
  102. Frame 14-15: 5% 100f/60w 100° 1.2-Hitlag
  103. Frame 24-25: 10% 55b/100g (KO@ 147%) 88° 1.2-Hitlag Pierce
  104. Frame 24-25: 7.5% 55b/100g (KO@ 193%) 88° 1.2-Hitlag Pierce
  105. Max Damage: 15%
  106. Enables transition to Uair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 1
  107. Cancels transition to Uair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 79

  108. Dair
  109. Frame 14-15: 7% 100f/20w 160° 1.2-Hitlag Ground-Target-Only
  110. Frame 14-15: 5% 100f/20w 172° 1.2-Hitlag Aerial-Target-Only
  111. Frame 23-24: 11% 10b/90g (KO@ 263%) 270° Pierce Aerial-Target-Only
  112. Frame 23-24: 11% 10b/85g (KO@ 200%) 361° Pierce
  113. Frame 23-24: 10% 55b/85g (KO@ 156%) 361° Pierce
  114. Max Damage: 18%
  115. Enables transition to Dair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 1
  116. Cancels transition to Dair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 78

  117. Grab
  118. Frame 7- 8: Grab
  119. Enables state transition on real frame 9

  120. Dash Grab
  121. Frame 9-10: Grab
  122. Enables state transition on real frame 11

  123. Pivot Grab
  124. Frame 10-11: Grab
  125. Enables state transition on real frame 12

  126. Pummel
  127. Frame 5- 5: 3% 100f/30w 361° 1.5-Hitlag
  128. Max Damage: 3%

  129. F-throw
  130. Frame 1-14: 8% 60b/70g (KO@ 249%) 45°
  131. Frame 15-16: 3% 100f/50w 361° 1.2-Hitlag Slash
  132. Max Damage: 11%

  133. B-throw
  134. Frame 1-17: 9% 70b/63g (KO@ 230%) 135°
  135. Frame 18-19: 3% 100f/50w 361° 1.2-Hitlag Pierce
  136. Max Damage: 12%

  137. U-throw
  138. Frame 1-19: 4% 60b/80g (KO@ 389%) 88°
  139. Frame 20-21: 3% 30b/120g (KO@ 346%) 361° 1.5-Hitlag Pierce
  140. Max Damage: 7%

  141. D-throw
  142. Frame 1-22: 4% 75b/115g (KO@ 242%) 50°
  143. Frame 23-24: 3% 0b/100g (KO@ 503%) 361° 1.2-Hitlag Pierce
  144. Max Damage: 7%

  145. Back Slash (startup)
  146. Frame 31-41: 16%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 101%) 140° 1.5-Hitlag Slash Away-Facing-Target-Only
  147. Frame 31-41: 14%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 118%) 140° 1.5-Hitlag Slash Away-Facing-Target-Only
  148. Frame 31-41: 10%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 166%) 361° 0.8-Hitlag Slash
  149. Frame 31-41: 9%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 184%) 361° 0.8-Hitlag Slash
  150. Frame 34-41: 16%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 101%) 140° 1.5-Hitlag Slash Away-Facing-Target-Only
  151. Frame 34-41: 14%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 118%) 140° 1.5-Hitlag Slash Away-Facing-Target-Only
  152. Frame 34-41: 10%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 166%) 361° 0.8-Hitlag Slash
  153. Frame 34-41: 9%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 184%) 361° 0.8-Hitlag Slash
  154. Max Damage: 16%

  155. Back Slash Leap (startup)
  156. Frame 28-29: 12%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 139%) 140° 1.5-Hitlag Slash Away-Facing-Target-Only
  157. Frame 28-29: 11%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 152%) 140° 1.5-Hitlag Slash Away-Facing-Target-Only
  158. Frame 28-29: 6%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 259%) 361° 0.8-Hitlag Slash
  159. Frame 28-29: 4%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 349%) 361° 0.8-Hitlag Slash
  160. Max Damage: 12%

  161. Back Slash Charge (startup)
  162. Frame 31-32: 15%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 109%) 140° 1.5-Hitlag Slash Away-Facing-Target-Only
  163. Frame 31-32: 13%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 128%) 140° 1.5-Hitlag Slash Away-Facing-Target-Only
  164. Frame 31-32: 6%(+7) 25b/100g (KO@ 268%) 361° 0.8-Hitlag Slash
  165. Frame 31-32: 4%(+7) 25b/100g (KO@ 361%) 361° 0.8-Hitlag Slash
  166. Max Damage: 15%
  167. Begins super armor on real frame 1
  168. Ends super armor on real frame 31

  169. Back Slash (fall)
  170. Frame 1- 2: 16%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 101%) 140° 1.5-Hitlag Slash Away-Facing-Target-Only
  171. Frame 1- 2: 14%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 118%) 140° 1.5-Hitlag Slash Away-Facing-Target-Only
  172. Frame 1- 2: 10%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 166%) 361° 0.8-Hitlag Slash
  173. Frame 1- 2: 9%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 184%) 361° 0.8-Hitlag Slash
  174. Max Damage: 16%

  175. Back Slash Leap (fall)
  176. Frame 1- 2: 16%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 101%) 140° 1.5-Hitlag Slash Away-Facing-Target-Only
  177. Frame 1- 2: 14%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 118%) 140° 1.5-Hitlag Slash Away-Facing-Target-Only
  178. Frame 1- 2: 10%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 166%) 361° 0.8-Hitlag Slash
  179. Frame 1- 2: 9%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 184%) 361° 0.8-Hitlag Slash
  180. Max Damage: 16%

  181. Back Slash Charge (fall)
  182. Frame 1- 2: 11%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 152%) 140° 1.5-Hitlag Slash Away-Facing-Target-Only
  183. Frame 1- 2: 9%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 184%) 140° 1.5-Hitlag Slash Away-Facing-Target-Only
  184. Frame 1- 2: 4%(+7) 25b/100g (KO@ 361%) 361° 0.8-Hitlag Slash
  185. Frame 1- 2: 3.5%(+7) 25b/100g (KO@ 395%) 361° 0.8-Hitlag Slash
  186. Max Damage: 11%

  187. Back Slash (landing)
  188. Frame 1- 2: 15%(+10) 25b/100g (KO@ 114%) 140° 1.5-Hitlag Slash Away-Facing-Target-Only
  189. Frame 1- 2: 13%(+10) 25b/100g (KO@ 133%) 140° 1.5-Hitlag Slash Away-Facing-Target-Only
  190. Frame 1- 2: 10%(+10) 25b/100g (KO@ 172%) 361° 0.8-Hitlag Slash
  191. Frame 1- 2: 9%(+10) 25b/100g (KO@ 190%) 361° 0.8-Hitlag Slash
  192. Max Damage: 15%

  193. Back Slash Leap (landing)
  194. Frame 1- 4: 18%(+10) 25b/100g (KO@ 91%) 140° 1.5-Hitlag Slash Away-Facing-Target-Only
  195. Frame 1- 4: 16%(+10) 25b/100g (KO@ 105%) 140° 1.5-Hitlag Slash Away-Facing-Target-Only
  196. Frame 1- 4: 10%(+10) 25b/100g (KO@ 172%) 361° 0.8-Hitlag Slash
  197. Frame 1- 4: 8%(+10) 25b/100g (KO@ 211%) 361° 0.8-Hitlag Slash
  198. Max Damage: 18%

  199. Back Slash Charge (landing)
  200. Frame 1- 2: 14%(+10) 25b/100g (KO@ 123%) 140° 1.5-Hitlag Slash Away-Facing-Target-Only
  201. Frame 1- 2: 12%(+10) 25b/100g (KO@ 144%) 140° 1.5-Hitlag Slash Away-Facing-Target-Only
  202. Frame 1- 2: 6%(+10) 22b/100g (KO@ 273%) 361° 0.8-Hitlag Slash
  203. Frame 1- 2: 4.5%(+10) 22b/100g (KO@ 339%) 361° 0.8-Hitlag Slash
  204. Frame 3- 4: 7%(+10) 25b/100g (KO@ 123%) 140° 1.5-Hitlag Slash Away-Facing-Target-Only
  205. Frame 3- 4: 6%(+10) 25b/100g (KO@ 144%) 140° 1.5-Hitlag Slash Away-Facing-Target-Only
  206. Frame 3- 4: 4%(+10) 22b/100g (KO@ 273%) 361° 0.8-Hitlag Slash
  207. Frame 3- 4: 3%(+10) 22b/100g (KO@ 339%) 361° 0.8-Hitlag Slash
  208. Max Damage: 14%

  209. Air Slash (first hit)
  210. Frame 10-11: 6% 100f/140w 78° Slash
  211. Frame 10-11: 6% 100f/135w 91° Slash
  212. Frame 10-11: 6% 100f/100w 85° Slash
  213. Frame 12-14: 5% 100f/80w 86° Slash
  214. Frame 12-14: 5% 100f/78w 80° Slash
  215. Frame 15-17: 5% 100f/43w 52° Slash
  216. Frame 15-17: 5% 100f/43w 70° Slash
  217. Max Damage: 6%
  218. Enables state transition on real frame 10
  219. Enables forward ledge grabs on real frame 10
  220. Enables all ledge grabs on real frame 40

  221. Advancing Air Slash (first hit)
  222. Frame 10-11: 6% 100f/120w 60° Slash
  223. Frame 10-11: 6% 100f/100w 60° Slash
  224. Frame 10-11: 6% 100f/90w 60° Slash
  225. Frame 12-14: 5% 100f/80w 55° Slash
  226. Frame 12-14: 5% 100f/78w 55° Slash
  227. Frame 15-17: 5% 100f/43w 45° Slash
  228. Max Damage: 6%
  229. Enables state transition on real frame 10
  230. Enables forward ledge grabs on real frame 10
  231. Enables all ledge grabs on real frame 40

  232. Mighty Air Slash (first hit)
  233. Frame 10-11: 9% 100f/140w 78° Slash
  234. Frame 10-11: 9% 100f/135w 91° Slash
  235. Frame 12-14: 7% 100f/100w 80° Slash
  236. Frame 15-15: 7% 100f/80w 52° Slash
  237. Max Damage: 9%
  238. Enables state transition on real frame 10
  239. Enables forward ledge grabs on real frame 10
  240. Enables all ledge grabs on real frame 40

  241. Air Slash (second hit)
  242. Frame 15-16: 5.5% 35b/170g (KO@ 168%) 48° 1.3-Hitlag Slash
  243. Max Damage: 5.5%

  244. Advancing Air Slash (second hit)
  245. Frame 11-12: 8% 35b/130g (KO@ 162%) 48° 1.3-Hitlag Slash
  246. Max Damage: 8%

  247. Mighty Air Slash (second hit)
  248. Frame 15-16: 10% 55b/80g (KO@ 196%) 80° 2.0-Hitlag Slash
  249. Max Damage: 10%

  250. Vision (fast hit)
  251. Frame 21-21: 13% 70b/94g (KO@ 112%) 50° 2.0-Hitlag Slash Unblockable
  252. Frame 21-21: 10% 70b/94g (KO@ 147%) 50° 2.0-Hitlag Slash Unblockable
  253. Max Damage: 13%

  254. Dash Vision (fast hit)
  255. Frame 13-13: 11% 70b/94g (KO@ 108%) 35° 2.0-Hitlag Slash Unblockable
  256. Frame 13-13: 8% 70b/94g (KO@ 147%) 35° 2.0-Hitlag Slash Unblockable
  257. Max Damage: 11%

  258. Power Vision (fast hit)
  259. Frame 41-44: 20% 70b/100g (KO@ 60%) 50° 2.0-Hitlag Slash Unblockable
  260. Frame 41-44: 17% 70b/100g (KO@ 76%) 50° 2.0-Hitlag Slash Unblockable
  261. Max Damage: 20%

  262. Vision (normal hit)
  263. Frame 8- 9: 10% 70b/84g (KO@ 166%) 50° 2.0-Hitlag Slash Unblockable
  264. Frame 8- 9: 7% 70b/84g (KO@ 228%) 50° 2.0-Hitlag Slash Unblockable
  265. Max Damage: 10%

  266. Dash Vision (normal hit
  267. Frame 8-11: 8% 70b/84g (KO@ 166%) 35° 2.0-Hitlag Slash Unblockable
  268. Frame 8-11: 5% 70b/84g (KO@ 244%) 35° 2.0-Hitlag Slash Unblockable
  269. Max Damage: 8%

  270. Power Vision (normal hit)
  271. Frame 12-17: 17% 70b/100g (KO@ 76%) 50° 2.0-Hitlag Slash Unblockable
  272. Frame 12-17: 14% 70b/100g (KO@ 96%) 50° 2.0-Hitlag Slash Unblockable
  273. Max Damage: 17%

  274. Final Smash
  275. Frame 20-22: 3% 100f/200w 80° Unblockable
  276. Max Damage: 3%

  277. Final Smash
  278. Frame 1- 2: 5% 105b/180g (KO@ 77%) 361°
  279. Max Damage: 5%

  280. Final Smash
  281. Frame 15-34: 2% 80f/1w 361°
  282. Frame 245-246: 12% 80f/1w 361°
  283. Max Damage: 34%

  284. **********
  285. END shulk
 

Virum

Smash Ace
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Messages
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SiLeNtDo0m
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I made a list of changes that I would like to see for Shulk but aren't entirely necessary. The character is in a good place as he is, but would need a few things here and there to become a top tier threat while retaining the key elements of his design:

+ Jab 1 has lowered and larger hitboxes, adjusted angle and adjusted knockback to hit smaller characters and jab reset grounded foes
Jab and grab are Shulk's only quick attacks so the fact that they can whiff vs certain characters at certain points really serves to hurt this character quite a bit in certain matchups. The ability to jab reset conveniently would also help his ground level tech chase game, allowing for a quick and effective punish against missed techs.

+ Jab 1 made two frames faster (frame 5 to 3)
Despite the fact that Shulk's jab is his fastest move it's still not particularly fast for a jab especially considering its mediocre range. Making it two frames faster may not seem like much of an improvement, but alongside hitbox buffs it would serve to improve the move a fair bit.

+ Jab 2 has adjusted knockback so that Jab 3 can hit floatier characters properly (currently whiffs vs Kirby, Jiggs, Peach, Rosalina and Zelda)
This isn't really too big of a deal to be honest considering against all of these characters barring Kirby (who can either throw out a hard to punish aerial or Down B and break your shield) it's safe to just shield after Jab 2. Nonetheless it would be nice to have while still retaining the potential mix-ups after Jab 2 vs these characters.

+ Dash Attack to come out 5 frames faster (frame 15 to frame 10) and hit at a lower angle
Currently Shulk's dash attack is by far his worst normal. It's essentially a bad version of FSmash that hits at a worse angle. Startup is far too slow for how unrewarding it is, and it's incredibly unsafe both on block and on whiff making it completely unviable as an approach option compared to most dash attacks in the game. Lowering the angle of the attack and making it come out a little faster would improve this move's viability as both an approach and a mid range punish.

+ Angleable FTilt
Another flavour thing for the most part, though it would genuinely help as another grounded anti-air to cover angles that UTilt can't as well as a tool for hitting opponents on the ledge, improving Shulk's overall zoning capability.

+ Slightly less endlag on FSmash to make spaced FSmash safer on block
Thankfully FSmash for the most part is a pretty good move but horribly unsafe regardless of how well it's spaced. I personally feel that an FSmash that's spaced at maximum/near maximum range should at least allow you to get a shield in after. For the most part though the move should remain unsafe due to it's relatively fast startup and power.

+ Adjusted priority on FSmash and USmash to make them not clank with jabs
This honestly drives me nuts. These attacks are both strong yet they trade with everything. The fact that a character like Captain Falcon can hold jab, trade with my smash and then punish me while I'm in rebound animation because none of my moves are fast enough to contest him is silly. Maybe give the first hits of FSmash and USmash the same sort of priority Mac's ground normals have so they're able to beat out weaker moves.

+ Adjusted timings and knockback of first hits of FSmash and USmash to make them connect more reliably
This is more cleanup than a proper buff. They were cleaned up in the 1.0.4 patch but still aren't entirely reliable, with down angled FSmash being the largest offender.

+ NAir, FAir and BAir all made 3 frames faster (frames 13, 14 and 18 to 10, 11 and 15 respectively)
This is a pretty huge buff and one that I'd be cautious about. On one hand it would help to alleviate some of the issues he has dealing with pressure in the air and would improve his OoS game (it would still be a weakness which is a good thing). On the other hand this would also improve his combo and neutral game quite a bit, possibly more than necessary.

+ Adjusted autocancel windows for BAir, UAir and DAir such that they can autocancel on full hop
This serves as both a buff and a polish. Currently the autocancel timings for these moves is absurdly late to the point where they don't make sense visual or practical. BAir is the worst offender. He literally already has the sword back on his back again before placing it down to suffer 21 frames of landing lag even though he was already super vulnerable in the air. In terms of buffs this would improve his aerial spacing with BAir, his anti air capability with UAir and his ability to cross up with DAir.

+ Added lingering sourspot hitboxes for UAir and DAir that last for 5 frames
Again both a buff and a polish. The beam for the Monado lingers out for a while, yet the hitboxes are out for pretty much a frame or two each which again doesn't make visual sense. This would give these moves utility somewhat more like Link's UAir and DAir but with less linger and greater range/disjoint as UAir and DAir are currently his least useful aerials by a significant margin due to skewed risk/reward ratio.

+ Back Slash damage buffed from 9/10 sourspot 14/16 sweetspot to 13/14 sourspot 22/24 sweetspot
Back Slash is Shulk's signature offensive Art in Xenoblade Chronicles and remains one his best arts all the way up until the endgame. The fact that it's arguably one of his worst moves in Smash is rather sad. I still believe it's utility should remain the same, serving as a rare punish off of a good read but I believe the damage should be increased to allow for a better risk/reward ratio. Currently the move is incredibly unsafe but also still weaker than his FSmash and USmash even when sweetspotted when imo it should be his strongest attack.

+ Vision adjusted to come out slightly faster and hit more reliably in the air
Shulk's counter is a weirdly polarised one. It's either the most absurd counter ever created or it simply doesn't work. This serves as an attempt to normalise it somewhat, bringing it more in line with other counters in the game.

- Vision knockback reduced significantly
The only nerf of the group for the same reason as above. The fact that this can kill at 80-90 from countering a jab is pretty absurd. It should be a powerful punish off of getting a good read (which is why I feel the damage should remain the same), but I feel it's too rewarding considering how little precision it requires to use.

This is all for default Shulk. Not sure what to say about customs, though the adjustments made for Vision above would also apply to its customs at least. And again, most of this is more "nice" than truly necessary. I'd like it to happen but it's not too big of a deal if it doesn't and to be honest I don't expect it to. I expect Shulk won't receive many changes realistically speaking.
 
Joined
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Messages
18,990
Back Slash is Shulk's signature offensive Art in Xenoblade Chronicles and remains one his best arts all the way up until the endgame. The fact that it's arguably one of his worst moves in Smash is rather sad
It pierces my heart to know this and to see someone express the unfortunate truth :I

Well, SDoom has his list covered for the normals, back slash, and vision

I'll cover my thoughts on Shulk's arts

Jump

What it did in Xenoblade: Ay lmoa
What it does in Smash: Increases jump height, air slash height, and air mobility, at the cost of increased damage received

Assumed design
- For recovering
- For off-stage edgeguarding

Current stance on Jump
My favorite art. You can land some insane combos with this art. One n-air > f-air > f-air can KO your opponents fairly easily off the edge. My main gripe with jump art is that Shulk's air acceleration is still abysmal. It is called "jump art" right? Why not make it at least decent?

Suggested changes
- Increase aerial acceleration


Speed

What it did in Xenoblade: Increase evade rate
What it does in Smash: Increase dash speed and air mobility, at the cost of decreased damage output and decreased jump height


Assumed design
- To bypass zoning
- To keep up with faster opponents

Current stance on Speed
It's godlike. I don't think it needs any changes. It's fine as is. Boost pivot grabs and SHFF N-airs are our BnB's with this art. It would be hilarious if they actually sped up Shulk's roll/spot dodge animation but they aren't gonna do that. Lol

Suggested changes
- None

Shield

What it did in Xenoblade: Blocks one talent art
What it does in Smash: Decreases damage received, increases weight, increases shield health, at the cost of decreased damage output, decreased dash/walk speed, and decreased aerial mobility

Assumed design
- To survive

Current stance on Shield
Ugh. I'm not a huge fan of this art. Sometimes, I feel like I'm simply delaying the inevitable with shield art. Hell, I found myself preferring to risk it with speed or buster than camping in shield. I feel like Shulk lacks too much options in shield. YEAH, he can survive but he can't do much while he's using the art

Suggested changes
- Damage dealt reduced by 10% (from 30%)
- Remove the nerf to walk/dash speed

Buster

What it did in Xenoblade: Deals high amount of damage to anyone at range (double to mechon)
What it does in Smash: Increase damage output, at the cost of increased damage received, and reduced knockback

Assumed design
- Combos (he did that 2 hit "combo" in the trailer)
- Racking up damage

Current stance on Buster
I love this art too. My only gripe with it is its reduced knockback. It's too much imo. It's kinda dumb that I'm still punishable despite landing the hit. Otherwise, spacing is rewarding with this art but the difficulty and riskiness of spacing with buster is the reason why people seem to go to speed most or if not, all the time. Despite my complaints, this art is very rewarding but I think it needs some buffs such that people can actually decide between buster and speed (instead of instantly going into speed)

Suggested changes
- Damage dealt increased by 55% (from 40%)
- Decrease the nerf to knockback
- Why the hell is this called buster anyway? Isn't this more of enchant? Wtf Samurai?

Smash

What it did in Xenoblade: Is actually Monado buster but Sakurai is a thing.
What it does in Smash: Increases knockback, at the cost of decreasing weight and damage output

Assumed design
- To land the KO

Current stance on Smash
Sometimes, I like this art. Sometimes, I hate it. I wonder why.... Oh right, I feel like Smash art is read based. I feel like I'm just there waiting and fishing for the KO. What makes me not totally hate Smash art is that the reward/knockback is nuts. However, it's fairly difficult to use Smash art at neutral. You're ALWAYS hoping that your opponent makes a mistake, or you're going to land a correct read.

Suggested changes
- .... Er... Help here? I mean, I want to suggest changes but I don't feel like the things I'm about to suggest might break this art ;-;
 
Last edited:

Masonomace

Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!
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+ Adjusted autocancel windows for BAir, UAir and DAir such that they can autocancel on full hop
This serves as both a buff and a polish. Currently the autocancel timings for these moves is absurdly late to the point where they don't make sense visual or practical. BAir is the worst offender. He literally already has the sword back on his back again before placing it down to suffer 21 frames of landing lag even though he was already super vulnerable in the air. In terms of buffs this would improve his aerial spacing with BAir, his anti air capability with UAir and his ability to cross up with DAir.
Your entire post btw to me is the meaning of truth. And alas, Full Hopping a DAir won't even allow you to land with NAir.

The only things we can do with Vanilla Shulk Full Hopping right now is:
  • Full Hop » NAir » nothing else can be done unless you drift going off-stage
  • Full Hop » FAir = Autocancel
  • Full Hop » BAir » input NAir for it's landing lag OR doublejump
  • Full Hop » UAir » input NAir for it's landing lag OR doublejump. This is tricky because inputting UAir too quickly becomes Usmash
  • Full Hop » DAir » No aerial can be inputted BUT we can interrupt the IASA frames with using a Special (AS, BS, & Vision)
At this point, I'm replacing aerials I Full Hop with NAir to replace the usual 17 - 21 frames of landing with only 12. But that only goes so far.
 
Last edited:

New_Dumal

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 4, 2012
Messages
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NewTouchdown
Diddy is the only one who need to be a bit nerfed.
And is not that much. Nerf one of the aspects of him that makes him great, and everyone else will be make him a high tier, what is okay!It's something like : change DThrow knockback to make harder to build damage from it! Or, nerf seriously the smash attacks making him a character that needs that aerial options or nothing. One aspect, and that's it.

Everyone else is a decent power level (from above).
Now please buff characters that have less viable options :
1 - Make more options be viable ( better way).
2 - Make that single options be really good (dangerous).

We need more characters making impact in the metagame, and that's it.
I don't like some Smash4 mechanism, but that's just me.
You can't change the mechanics in a update, or you're changing your game.
 

Piford

Smash Lord
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Sep 17, 2014
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SuperZelda
So is anyone here going to actually see and look for the changes (assuming no patch notes). I would but I don't think I have the equipment to do (not sure how to measure hitboxes and frame data), and I'm only able to update it like the day after the update hits. I'm sure if no one here looks, someone will get it, but it'll be nice to know about Shulk's changes quickly.
 
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