Why is YOUR Marth Getting Grabbed

Husband · May 3, 2007

I dont usually do this because it never goes well but lets give it a try.

The tip of Marths sword for ANY of his moves out ranges all grabs from ANY character. So tell me, why are you getting grabbed??

If you have vids anywhere, I want you to go look and watch your vids and come back and tell me a time you got grabbed and why and how it happened.

JesiahTEG · May 3, 2007

I get grabbed right after I spot dodge, or after a fair from a marth, or after a pillar from a fox, or if I get tech chased.

Nick Nasty · May 3, 2007

I get grabbed because of the way I DI into the opponent as I am shuffling any of my aerials. I guess I'm just going to have to work on my spacing. BTW, I didn't know that Marth's sword range is greater than anyone's grab range, but when you really think about it, it's common sense.

Husband · May 3, 2007

Ok, good stuff, good stuff. Lets look at these things.

Jesiah- Why did you spot dodge. What would have happened if you didnt??
All, keep in mind that when Marth's Fair hits you, you can CC and grab him (unless he tips it but if he tips it, he will be too far away to grab you anyway.) haha, Just watch out for Fox's wave shines. If you see him coming in on you via air, wave dash back so that he lands in front of you and not on you.

Nick- Yes, you do have to work on your spacing. You literally have to Hold back on the J-stick when jumping in. Thats why its good to use the C-stick for air attacks so you can jump in then hold back and F-air.

Sometimes you just need to think about what you are doing.

These are good examples. Anyone else?? Jesiad, Make sure you answer me to why you were spot dodging.

AS Money · May 3, 2007

i land infront of sheilding people after an arial instead of behind them like i want to

Marth/Falco Pro · May 3, 2007

I always get grabbed because of careless spacing e.g: shdfair, first Fair is spaced well, second is not, which ends up as me being shield grabbed.

JesiahTEG · May 3, 2007

I spot dodge for a few reasons.

1. After a shffl to avoid shieldgrabs
2. After I whiff an Fsmash
3. Most of all... When someone is DD camping me and I'm trying to bait a grab. I suck when I get DD grab camped.
4. After I whiff a grab

Also, it seems like it's an instant reaction to me to spot dodge after someone spotdodges one of my aerials. I land after missing, spot dodge immediately. Sometimes they fall for it and then I wait for them to spot dodge as an instant reaction...But against the better players in my area, they don't fall for that.

Nashun · May 3, 2007

Because I'm a Kirby player and Kirby can usually crouch after his aerials to prevent from being grabbed.

=( It doesn't work very well with Marth.

Husband · May 3, 2007

AS Money- Ok,well dont attempt to land behind them. You should be attempting to land in front and spaced so that they wont be able to reach you when you land.

Marth/falco Pro- Ok, its sounds like you arent using the C-stick. If you use the C-stick for your air attack, you can pull back on the J-stick and you'll stay spaced. Practice that.

Jesiah - You have to get that reaction out of your system. Here is another Question for you. You say you spot dodge when miss a smash hit. So I can assume since you have enough time to spot dodge after the smash hit, your opponent runs up to you and waits for your spot dodge and then grabs you. So in any case, what do you think would happen if instead of spot dodging, you did the dtilt or just hit the neutral ground A attack? If you have enough time to spot dodge, you have enough time to dtilt or neutral A.

Also Jesiah- The DD camping can be gay but there is away around it. The Dtilt is so fast what you want to do is run up to the person who is DD and Dtilt and if you miss Dtilt again or dash away. Its quick enough so that you can get out if you miss.

If you L-cancel propery, No charater has enough time to Spot dodge your Air attack and whatever you follow it up with. So if you Fair then Dtilt, the person can Side step the Fair but you will hit his lag frames with your Dtilt. So make sure you are Canceling into more attacks.

The wiffing a Grab thing can be tough. I get grabbed a lot because of that too. You have to play smart and know when you can grab. If you keep missing it, then change when and where you are grabbing.

Nashun- Dont be stupid. We arent talking about Kirby, this is the Marth section. Dont crouch as marth after you L-cancel. Its a stupid habit that you have to get rid of.

EDIT: going out to lunch, Ill be back by 2 to answer more

JesiahTEG · May 3, 2007

Well husband if I follow up a fair against a peach who just spotdodged the fair, and I dtilt or jab...CC->Dsmash for peach easy 25-45% damage. Maybe more if I'm still holding down for the dtilt. Maybe I should nair instead of fair?

And would it be ok to use a utilt after a shflld fair or nair, or does it come out too slow?

Emblem Lord · May 3, 2007

Sooo...wait..wait.

Kevin. Your telling me you never get grabbed? Ever. You are full of lies if you say that you don't.

>_>

Husband · May 3, 2007

Jesiah- Im sorry to inform you But the reason why this isnt working for you is because you are not spaced. I know the Marth vs Peach match up better than anyone else. You have to be hitting with the very tip of Marths Fair so that it makes that different sound when it hits. And your D-tilt should be able to hit her before she can even start the Dsmash. And when It does, Even if she CCs it, it will push her away just enough so that you are not in her range. It sounds like you need to work on your spacing.

Emblem Lord- No one is perfect. I may know how NOT to get grabbed but it doesnt mean I have the tech skill to make it happen. I may miss cancels or mess up on spacing.

Since I made this thread, I will join in with you guys and let you know why I get grabbed.

- I get grabbed By sheik When She full jumps and throws needles. The needles hit me and then she grabs me.
- After an air attack, I cancel into a shield because I think Sheik or Peach is going to dash attack me when I land but instead they just run up and grab.
- When I wiff a grab against Fox, marth or Falcon, they come back and grab me. Sometimes I go to grab and they dash away and come back and grab me.

I have been coming up with ideas on how to get around these things but I havent tested them yet. But before I do, does anyone have any tips for me to get around these things??

Emblem Lord · May 3, 2007

With Shiek and her needles you should be able to roll out of your shield before she grabs you.

With Shiek and Peach, you should probably just start to anticipate thier grabs and and grab them yourself. Or just start rolling away or dashing away after you l-cancel an aerial. You could also put up your shield to bait the grab then just shield grab them before they can grab you.

This is a little tougher. Marth, Fox, and CF are all great dash dancers and this is a common scenario. What I do is try to over shoot the position where I think I'll nail the grab. Basically you dash farther then you normally would because you are anticipating that they will dash away. If it works you'll nail the grab. You could just use the dashing into d-tilt. If you nail the d-tilt you get a grab. If you whiff then you dash away.

D1 · May 3, 2007

Emblem Lord said:
What I do is try to over shoot the position where I think I'll nail the grab. Basically you dash farther then you normally would because you are anticipating that they will dash away. If it works you'll nail the grab. You could just use the dashing into d-tilt. If you nail the d-tilt you get a grab. If you whiff then you dash away.

Thats exactly...what I was gonna post (not word for word...but same idea "M2K inspired of course").

Husband · May 3, 2007

Emblem Lord said:
With Shiek and her needles you should be able to roll out of your shield before she grabs you.

With Shiek and Peach, you should probably just start to anticipate thier grabs and and grab them yourself. Or just start rolling away or dashing away after you l-cancel an aerial. You could also put up your shield to bait the grab then just shield grab them before they can grab you.

This is a little tougher. Marth, Fox, and CF are all great dash dancers and this is a common scenario. What I do is try to over shoot the position where I think I'll nail the grab. Basically you dash farther then you normally would because you are anticipating that they will dash away. If it works you'll nail the grab. You could just use the dashing into d-tilt. If you nail the d-tilt you get a grab. If you whiff then you dash away.

I was thinking much of the same things. Good ****.

I need to try that rolling away thing cuz M2K kept doing it to me and it really felt like I couldnt move because of his speed. I was almost thinking of Shielding when she jumps and shield the needles, then Fair out of the shield once the last one hits it.

The Peach and sheik thing is just a good example of old habits dying hard. Its a bad habit and there are SO many things I can do i just need to get used to doing them. Playing Oro (a samus who doesnt grab... EVER) It was VERY safe for me to just cancel into a shield when I land because he couldnt do anything to me. So now Im trying to get that out of my system.

I have done the over shooting before when I noticed that my opponent likes to run away. It does work.

Emblem Lord · May 3, 2007

I might try the fair out of shield with Shieks needles. But I would be too afraid that she could fair me then get a free grab. Which would suck. But w/e. You have to be willing to get owned to get better.

JesiahTEG · May 3, 2007

no husband, I'm talking about when peach dodges or shields your fair, not if it successfully hits.

UMBC Super Smasher · May 3, 2007

Alright, my turn. How I get grabbed:

- Sometimes I like to spam aerial attacks like nair and fair even when I know it won't hit my opponent. Against weaker opponents, it's kind of psychological like "z0mg he's swinging and swinging, how am I going to hit him?" Against characters like sheik, I often get grabbed right after an aerial attack even when l-canceled. If I roll the sheik just keeps running and grabs me out of my roll. If I jump I still get grabbed in time. If I spot dodge, then assuming the sheik tried to grab me during my spot dodge, then I can get away because sheik's grab has a fair amount of lag.
- I get grabbed vs peach when shielding, thinking she'll dash attack me and she just runs up and grabs me.
- I sometimes get greedy and try to shield grab peach's float canceled aerials and get slapped then grabbed.
- Captain Falcon when DD camping me. Ugh, FrozenChaos did this the entire time to me in a money match. I suppose I need to dash and dtilt to get him to stop?
- Samus with an extender. It grabs me no matter where I go! Darned Jasona!
- When I am returning to the stage. I can't seem to do anything about this...
- Fox just runs in and grabs me before I can react.
- Peach after a float canceled forward aerial. She lands and I shield, thinking she'll dsmash or slap, but she just grabs me.
- When I am at low percentages, peach can like chain grab fthrow me several times. Doll does it to me, and Nicholas picked up on it and does it as well.
- When I whiff fsmashes or try to dtilt a marth when I'm too close.

I think that covers a lot of the time I get grabbed =)

Dark Sonic · May 3, 2007

I get grabbed by shiek very often because she shields my fair and grabs me out of my d-tilt.
My friend pretty much shields every thing and there's not much I can do about it now because I have no way of getting him out of it. I tried moving foward and grabbing, but he specifically looks to see whether I dash, so he can sidestep my grab, or d-tilt in which case he holds his shield so he can grab me out of it. This is normally after a spaced retreating fair so I don't think spacing is the issue.

There are also other times when I mess up my spacing and hit him with a non-tipped fair at low percentages and he hits the ground and grabs me before I land. I'm working on my spacing to accomidate more for their DI, but what can I do if I were to mess up and miss the tip.

Byped · May 3, 2007

ok, this question is kinda off topic but not really.........
i kinda just wanted your opinion............

when i play a fox, this situation always seems to occur..........
EVERY MATCH............. and i almost always handle it wrong...

(my friends fox know how to wavedash.......)

on FD....... me and the fox end up on opposite sides of the stage... were both in contoll of our chars.......... and there is a pause...............

i start to walk across the stage to the fox......... and he starts DDing like a squirrel on crack.......

this is when i get confused......

-if i approach (which i usually do) i either DD into some kind of attack (up tilt, down tilt, forward tilt/smash) or i run in with a double-fair/ nair........... these usually get guarded but if i get a lucky hit in .... i win a stock............

-If i decide to stand still and let the fox approach (as i've heard your supposed to do because marth has an amazing defensive game) ....... i get double lasered to hell............

so what im really asking is if i see a DD fox who gets really happy with the "shuffl'd nairs" and "drill shine into grab into up-air" combos what do i do.........

is there another approach..?

if i grab... i get up-smash *****....................

i do grab.... just not as an approach...

if you havent seen my marth.... its OK.... not bad, not good..... (havent posed a new vid in a bit....)

tech skill is iight so give me your best shot...............

WHAT DO I DO?

VERY ROUGH idea of my marth and this is not the fox i will be playing ......... just overview of my tech skill...........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QdNNdUWnAw (random fox)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cIVKaf6PdA (one of the fox's i was talking about... has gotten much better......)

Husband · May 4, 2007

Jesiah- Peach can not Dodge your Fair without getting hit by what ever you following it up with if you cancel properly. Can someone back me up with this statement? I konw the Peach vs Marth match up.

UMBC- You should be in control of all your swings. Dont just be swinging randomly. Think control
-Haha, Yea, peach does that to me too. Its a bad habit you have to break.
-Once again, bad habit. You can wait for her to float cancel and attack THEN grab her. Keep in mind if she cancels into a Dsmash, you wont be able to grab it. But if she cancels into a Jab, you can wait for the jab. *Most Peaches cancel into her Double Jab so wait for both the jabs then grab* Smart Peaches will switch it up with one jab or two slow jabs so watch for that too.
- Samus can not grab you when you are in the air. So when that thing is coming at you, just jump.
- Keep in mind that you have all the priority in the game. Instead of sheilding, just swing your sword and work on that reaction time.
- I talked to Oro the other night and asked him how you did and he said the main thing you need to work on is your spacing so try to focus in on that.

Sonic Wave- hahah, If your Dtilt is getting grabbed.... Dont Dtilt!!! This is true though, Sheik CAN grab your Dtilt. SO.... When Marth cancels into a move it is almost like he didnt do a move at all. Any thing you can do while just standing there, you can do after an L-cancel.
So lets say I was just standing there and I saw sheik running in on me and I know the ***** would grab my Dtilt so instead I am going to dash away. This works as well with an Lcanceled air attack. Just do your Fair then dash away from her if you think she is going to run in and grab you and when she misses her grab, dash back and grab her. Just make sure you are hitting those Lcancels properly.
- If you think she is going to Sidestep, just run up to her and shield, and RIGHT AFTER she sidesteps, grab out of your shield. You could even walk up, wait for the sidestep then smash hit if you wanted.

Byped- Ill get back to you, I have to do some work at my job for once, haha

K.C. Cloud · May 4, 2007

Nice thread Husband. I admire your enthusiasm for helping out these players,

Matches when I get back, Falco vs Marth. LOLZ

Anywayz my Marth gets grabbed only when I sheild and was expecting a hit from a fox player and instead they grab. Dealing with Fox's speed is rough but generally I keep them at the edge of my sword. Though marth dittos it's hard for me not to get grabbed, seeing as how they have the same grab range as me. Any tips on marth dittos and avoiding grabs?

Though still I need more practice.

CWolf20 · May 4, 2007

Is it a good play to follow a blocked aerial with a down-tilt most of the time, or is that more of a situational thing, such as when you poorly space an Fair and you're in grab range?

darkshy · May 4, 2007

Well my spacing is still not good. Epcially when I am under pressure. And usually I get grabbed when I miss my grabs as well.

Dark Sonic · May 4, 2007

Generally the D-tilt is a safe move to follow an L-cancel'd fair as it can hit them if they sidestepped your fair and if they just hold their shield then you are still out of range to be grabbed. The only problems I've had with this tactic are against Shiek and Marth because they can grab your arm as you extend it for your d-tilt.

Thanks for the advice Husband. Now I just have to learn how to avoid getting hit if she sidesteps a grab.

darkshy · May 4, 2007

I'll be sure to keep that in mind next time I play the problem is that I'm still trying to get used to L-canceling. I'm still working the kinks out with my marth

CWolf20 · May 4, 2007

Is the "jab" a better alternative if you're right next to them? The obvious issue with this would be a CC ==> grab, but I'm curious if you can use Marth's ground neutral A as a stopper.

Dark Sonic · May 4, 2007

No because if the opponent shields it or CCs it there's nothing you can do to cover yourself. The D-tilt comes out just as fast anyway and is less risky because you can move much sooner than if you were to jab.

Emblem Lord · May 4, 2007

You are better off pretending that Marth deosn't even have a jab.

His jab is that horrible.

Only good for edge guarding purposes, like hitting space animals out of thier up b.

CWolf20 · May 4, 2007

Good to know.

Havokbringer · May 5, 2007

Yea I use marths jab when I get fox or falco off the edge too.Sometimes,if they dont pay attention,they fall and die or up b too late,but most of the time they fall right under the stage which is the place u want them since they now can't up b above as well and they cant head straight towards you and you can then follow up with an easy dtilt or a well timed tip. Byped:Ok I saw your videos and I think I could help you a bit.First when your fighting make sure your facing the fox so u can keep a solid defense with ur fairs,like when he starts jumping up after u ,u can catch with fairs since marth has good recovery and dont be afraid of his laser because your just letting the damage from it stack and you become vunerable when you try to jump over them.You have a decent grab game but u need to start using ur uptilt more after you throw them up(at the right percentage that is 45-55% around that)and mix it up too like when u grab the fox instead of chainthrowing the ******* throw the thing foward ,but quickly so that the person misses the tech(hopefully)then you can get a good tipped fsmash.Lastly you r letting the fox shine you off the edge too easily instead you could fast so that he cant reach and then sweet spot the edge ,fair the fox as it is heading towards you or up b early so it smacks the fox and it bounces(again hopefully)of the stage and dies.Either way make sure that no matter what you do keep your on the fox because if you dont thats when i catchs you with drill shine/ edge shine.

Stryk9 · May 5, 2007

CWolf20 said:
Is it a good play to follow a blocked aerial with a down-tilt most of the time, or is that more of a situational thing, such as when you poorly space an Fair and you're in grab range?

against Ic's yes.

FrostByte · May 5, 2007

Marth's jab is good for keeping opponents out of your face. Dtilt-jab puts them under immense pressure when they're near the edge and it's good for toying around with your opponent. It also hits where higher than the dtilt, so your opponents can't jump over it.

knightpraetor · May 5, 2007

very useful set of posts...this may help my game against sheik more than all my thousands of questions about throw di vs sheik..but regardless..it was still useful to know the various di's versus sheik as well..i will have to work on these..particularly utilizing crouch cancel more instead of spot dodge vs marth..i don't CC much except with samus

spoonyd · May 6, 2007

This thread is actually awesome. Needless to say I sure need to work on my spacing as well and never really tried to do ALL aerials with the c stick. Do all the top players do that? What about SHDFairs with the cstick? Is that possible? Might help with spacing some and cut down on getting shield grabbed.

Havokbringer · May 6, 2007

Of course its possible spoonyd,thats how i do a double fair .Its also more usefull then just the a button because then u can DI backwards at the same time so that u dont get hit or grabbed.

knightpraetor · May 6, 2007

but do you use both the C-stick and A or just the c-stick? i use A for the first and then di the second while using the c-stick..is taht enough to space properly? i've been cnosidering lately switching to a claw handgrip so i can c-stick both

JesiahTEG · May 6, 2007

ok husband, i desperately need your help. I hate sheik. So much. And I cant do anything against a shiek...when they dash/wd in and out of my range and grab camp. nothing. i cant do anything. help me plz.

UMBC Super Smasher · May 7, 2007

I'm too tired to give a detailed overview, but a few quick words on approaching for marth vs sheik:

- don't double jump
- approach with wavedash to dtilt or sh fair to dtilt
- anything else has been said elsewhere on these boards

balladechina212 · May 7, 2007

Can you do anything if you hit someone's shield with a fsmash and they shield-wavedash to grab you?

Why is YOUR Marth Getting Grabbed

Smash Lord

Smash Master

Smash Journeyman

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

Smash Master

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Smash Master

The Legendary Lord

Smash Lord

The Legendary Lord

Banned via Administration

Smash Lord

The Legendary Lord

Smash Master

Smash Lord

Smash Hero

Smash Cadet

Smash Lord

Smash Ace

Smash Journeyman

Smash Ace

Smash Hero

Smash Ace

Smash Journeyman

Smash Hero

The Legendary Lord

Smash Journeyman

Smash Lord

Smash Journeyman

Smash Lord

Smash Champion

Smash Apprentice

Smash Lord

Smash Champion

Smash Master

Smash Lord

Smash Ace

Information

Network