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Noir's Advance Technique/Reseach and Discussion.

Niko_K

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
4,797
Location
Oshawa 905
WORKING:
Peaches Turnips
Zamus Armor
Diddy Kong Bananas

It seems as if any item produced by lighter characters that can be thrown with A are able to do this. Link cannot do this with his bombs but he can Air Dodge Item Drop his bombs.
 

Niko_K

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
4,797
Location
Oshawa 905
I feel so good about all this. I joined the scene only 5 months ago and now I'm a decently big part of this game. (or so I think?)
 

NESSBOUNDER

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
3,167
Location
somewhere sunny
Yes, Niko, you're doing a very good job.

Well, anyone who has the game right now is pretty valuable. XD But you've discovered a lot of interesting tricks in a short amount of time, which is commendable.
 

X-x-Dyce-x-X

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
Messages
4,294
Location
Some town in New Jersey Mains: Link, Falco, Ganond
Peach's Turnips can be slid.
Diddy's Bananas can be slid.
Wario's Bike Parts can be slid.
Toon Link's Bombs can be slid.

Waiting on Zamus' Varia Suit Parts and Link's Bombs.

(Did I miss anything?)

EDIT:
Oh, and what's the deal with ROB's projectile? Is that an item-like attack? Or does he just shoot it?
And D3's soldiers CAN'T be picked up by hand, right?
 

Proven

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 5, 2007
Messages
199
Wario bike parts confirmed, though not too far. Toon Links Bombs also confirmed.
If Wario's bike parts can work, and he's a heavy character, then I think it has to do with frame timing rather than only light characters and for some reason Wario can do this. You should also test this with every character just because it's something you can use in battles against these item casters, especially since it's so much easier to catch items now.

Something else I want tested by anybody, Wario Waft (the fart attack) is extremely good for recovery, but it takes time to charge. I figure the one thing that could charge it faster is his bite attack. So, I want tested:

A.) How long does Wario normally take to fully charge the Wario Waft? He starts flashing/slowing when it's fully charged, so you can tell. You'll need to test from when Wario respawns and for when Wario uses the move and goes back to empty (I think he has part of it charged whenever he dies)

B.) Does Biting other people speed up the charge?

C.) Does Biting (and eating) items speed up the charge? Wario has his bike, so he always has something that he can create and eat if necessary, and would by extension be a great boost to his recovery.
 

Mike Hawk

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
231
Location
TX
i believe i might have found something new
you can do a quasi brake into a smash
run -> press shield(no directional) -> smash of choice

you have to do the last 2 steps (out of 3 lol) in a quick-fluid motion.
 

tect

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
433
Location
Kingston, ON
i believe i might have found something new
you can do a quasi brake into a smash
run -> press shield(no directional) -> smash of choice

you have to do the last 2 steps (out of 3 lol) in a quick-fluid motion.
does it work fast?
 

SamDvds

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 27, 2005
Messages
734
Question: in regards to peach's float canceling, i know you said its out but a friend of mine just showed me a video that makes it look like it still works. look at this video at 00:06-00:08 there is a float, F-air, and two jabs immediately after landing. again at 00:20-00:22 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUDhd3xAzuM
 

SynikaL

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Messages
1,973
Location
Boynton Beach, FL
I'm pretty sure this isn't a new technique... just a confirmation of a returning one.
No, it isn't.

What Mike is positing is the ability to cancel your Dash animation with a Shield and do ANY Smash out of Shield -- in Melee, the only Smash you could do out of Shield was Up Smash. In Brawl, you can do any Smash out of Shield. Forgot to mention this earlier.


-Kimosabae
 

SynikaL

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Messages
1,973
Location
Boynton Beach, FL
Yes, you can still Dash into Up Smash. It takes the place of JC grabs, which is why you'll see random dashing Up Smashes in a lot of videos. Apparently, you can cancel the run animation into any Smash in Brawl using the C-Stick, which I have yet to try myself.

Anything involving Shield cancels should be called just that: A Shield Cancel.

Shield seems to cancel a lot in this game. Let's keep the names concise and sensible.


-Kye
 

TelpeFion

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Messages
1,203
Location
Helsinki, Finland
I' ve heard from several news sources that you simply double tap to run or fall through platforms with the wiimote. I believe it but I guess if you want confirmation someone is actually going to have to use the wiimote for a round :laugh:

obviously double tapping for running makes more sense than working some way to light and heavy shield. I'm still dissapointed that it' s out though, they could have just implimented it with the GC controller, or mapped light shielding to A on the Wiimote and heavy to B on the Wiimote and then had you press both for a grab. That would have been cool to custom map it on the GC controller like L = light shield and R = heavy.

*sigh* Oh well.
I didn't mean running vs. walking, I meant walking faster vs. walking slower. In SSB and SSBM your walking speed depends on how far you tilt the analogue stick. For running, there is only one speed. I can't see how you could adjust your walking speed in Brawl with the wiimote? So maybe you can't adjust your walking speed at all?
 

SynikaL

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Messages
1,973
Location
Boynton Beach, FL
Right so... basically it's a returning techinque, but at the next level. Basically, Shield Cancel 2.0, if you will.

Now, am I wrong for saying it's a returning technique? Because I think you just proved to us that that's exactly what it is.
Yes and no.

Yes, Shield Cancel - Dash existed in Melee, unfortunately it was never coined anything official since Jump Cancel was infinitely more useful for the same things. Furthermore, Shield Cancel seems like it has more ubiquitous uses this time around, so its level if importance is higher.

Various attacks outside Up Smash out of Shield is specific to Brawl, so this, specifically, is totally new.

Meh.


-Kye
 

DBurke

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 24, 2008
Messages
30
Location
Guerneville, CA
Question: in regards to peach's float canceling, i know you said its out but a friend of mine just showed me a video that makes it look like it still works. look at this video at 00:06-00:08 there is a float, F-air, and two jabs immediately after landing. again at 00:20-00:22 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUDhd3xAzuM
It has been said many times that Peach's float cancel is out because her float simply doesn't cancel anything accept vertical momentum. She has very short lag animations, however, so when she does a shorthop float to an aerial it just looks like it cancels lag.

If Wario's bike parts can work, and he's a heavy character, then I think it has to do with frame timing rather than only light characters and for some reason Wario can do this. You should also test this with every character just because it's something you can use in battles against these item casters, especially since it's so much easier to catch items now.
Wario can't shield while holding the bike; nor can he jump.


L2 read, please.
 

Yeroc

Theory Coder
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 28, 2004
Messages
3,273
Location
In a world of my own devising
DBurke, Float Cancelling is a minor bug in the system in which Peach can begin an air move during a float, and when she lands she doesn't suffer any additional lag (she lands as if she were doing nothing at all). I haven't seen conclusive attempts to discover whether or not this capability is in Brawl, but I'm inclined to think they removed it, and Peach is under the same constraints that everyone else seems to have: rapid landing lag unless there's an active hitbox out.
 

tect

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
433
Location
Kingston, ON
DBurke, Float Cancelling is a minor bug in the system in which Peach can begin an air move during a float, and when she lands she doesn't suffer any additional lag (she lands as if she were doing nothing at all). I haven't seen conclusive attempts to discover whether or not this capability is in Brawl, but I'm inclined to think they removed it, and Peach is under the same constraints that everyone else seems to have: rapid landing lag unless there's an active hitbox out.
so if i Fair with marth, and SHFF the attack, and i'm still swinging my sword when i land, i won't suffer lag?
 

Proven

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 5, 2007
Messages
199
It has been said many times that Peach's float cancel is out because her float simply doesn't cancel anything accept vertical momentum. She has very short lag animations, however, so when she does a shorthop float to an aerial it just looks like it cancels lag.



Wario can't shield while holding the bike; nor can he jump.


L2 read, please.
Durr, stupid. I meant his bike parts. Where was your reading comprehension on the last page?
 

DBurke

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 24, 2008
Messages
30
Location
Guerneville, CA
DBurke, Float Cancelling is a minor bug in the system in which Peach can begin an air move during a float, and when she lands she doesn't suffer any additional lag (she lands as if she were doing nothing at all). I haven't seen conclusive attempts to discover whether or not this capability is in Brawl, but I'm inclined to think they removed it, and Peach is under the same constraints that everyone else seems to have: rapid landing lag unless there's an active hitbox out.

I'm well aware of what float canceling is, thanks for the lesson though. Peach's landing lag does NOT get canceled when she floats in Brawl. However, like in Melee you can cancel her upward momentum with a float and do an aerial very close to the ground. Since she has very short lag animations, combined with the fact that she can do the aerial much closer to the ground than any other character which causes her aerial animation to be shorter, I could see people being inclined to think that float canceling is in, but it's not. It's in the thread I don't know how many times.

so if i Fair with marth, and SHFF the attack, and i'm still swinging my sword when i land, i won't suffer lag?
You will in brawl. Each move has a specific lag animation when you land during the move, I believe. You can cancel the aerial animation by fast falling, which will make you do the move faster, however there isn't a way to cancel landing animation that we know of yet.

Durr, stupid. I meant his bike parts. Where was your reading comprehension on the last page?
My reading comprehension was in your post, which said nothing of bike parts. Just a bike.
 

Proven

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 5, 2007
Messages
199
My post clearly talked about the fact that I found it weird that Wario can do this technique with his bike parts, despite being a heavy character. This technique can only be done by shielding first, so later when I just say bike, and not just bike parts a second time, the meaning should be implied.

Look, I'll even quote my own post:

If Wario's bike parts can work, and he's a heavy character, then I think it has to do with frame timing rather than only light characters and for some reason Wario can do this. You should also test this with every character just because it's something you can use in battles against these item casters, especially since it's so much easier to catch items now.

Something else I want tested by anybody, Wario Waft (the fart attack) is extremely good for recovery, but it takes time to charge. I figure the one thing that could charge it faster is his bite attack. So, I want tested:

A.) How long does Wario normally take to fully charge the Wario Waft? He starts flashing/slowing when it's fully charged, so you can tell. You'll need to test from when Wario respawns and for when Wario uses the move and goes back to empty (I think he has part of it charged whenever he dies)

B.) Does Biting other people speed up the charge?

C.) Does Biting (and eating) items speed up the charge? Wario has his bike, so he always has something that he can create and eat if necessary, and would by extension be a great boost to his recovery.
 

DBurke

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 24, 2008
Messages
30
Location
Guerneville, CA
My post clearly talked about the fact that I found it weird that Wario can do this technique with his bike parts, despite being a heavy character. This technique can only be done by shielding first, so later when I just say bike, and not just bike parts a second time, the meaning should be implied.
Fair enough. My mistake.
 
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