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The Nipple Spike: Falcon's True Spike Revealed

Terios the Hedgehog

Terios the Hedgehog

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 25, 2006
Messages
6,452
Location
Shenandoah, PA
Old Tier List
Top Tier:
Fox
Falco

High Tier:
Sheik
Marth
Peach

Middle Tier:
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Samus
Doctor Mario
Jigglypuff
Mario
Ganondorf

Low Tier:
Link
Luigi
Donkey Kong
Roy
Young Link
Pikachu

Bottom Tier:
Yoshi
Zelda
Mr. Game and Watch
Ness
Bowser
Kirby
Pichu
Mewtwo

New Tier list
Top Tier:
Falcon
Falcon

High Tier:
Falcon
Falcon

Middle Tier:
Falcon
Falcon
Falcon
Falcon
Fox
Falcon
Falcon

Low Tier:
Falco
Falcon
Shiek
Falcon
Falcon
Falcon

Bottom Tier:
Marth
Peach
Ice Climbers
Everybody else
 
P

phanna

Dread Phanna
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
2,758
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Florida
It seems all of SWF is being struck with the same mental *********** that gave birth to the Windmill of Fury.
 
pkmvodka

pkmvodka

Smash Lord
Joined
May 28, 2004
Messages
1,036
Location
Montréal
I've been doing a bit of testing, and I begin to think that it's not MCed o_O. I never MCed it myself, but I clearly remember a CPU doing it. So I was thinking, maybe the CPU was just DIing in that direction when getting hit, looking like the other hitbox angle.

brb after a bit more testing.
 
TheManaLord

TheManaLord

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Joined
Jun 4, 2006
Messages
6,283
Location
Upstate NY
Yeah, I think I've had CPU's done it to me before as well, but I think I just did it wrong. But when I clearly see myself hitting them with like the upper part of the hitbox, and seeing them go at that angle, there's nothing they do about it ever.
 
Ratking1234

Ratking1234

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 1, 2004
Messages
951
Location
Portland Oregon
pkmvodka said:
I've been doing a bit of testing, and I begin to think that it's not MCed o_O. I never MCed it myself, but I clearly remember a CPU doing it. So I was thinking, maybe the CPU was just DIing in that direction when getting hit, looking like the other hitbox angle.

brb after a bit more testing.
Click to expand...
I am glad you actually went and tested it and corrected yourself from your old post... We tested it even more this weekend up in washington at skypal. Its real, you cannot cancel it, and DIing it so the angle isnt 45 doesnt make it cancelable all of a sudden. If you hit with the proper part, then you cant cancel it. Works in both versions as well I would assume. All original testing was not done in 1.0, but people are saying 1.0 it works.
 
TheManaLord

TheManaLord

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Jun 4, 2006
Messages
6,283
Location
Upstate NY
It shouldn't be too hard, low % uthrow to spike, mid percent dthrow to spike... raptor boost to spike... dtilt to spike... etc etc!

And full momentum full jumped spikes are so awesome looking.
 
A

AeuS

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 4, 2006
Messages
39
It's hard hitting the exact spot for it >_>. However, so far, my tests have concluded it uncancellable.
 
P

phanna

Dread Phanna
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Apr 3, 2006
Messages
2,758
Location
Florida
Okay, did some AR testing with 1.1:

I didn't come up with anything I would call conclusive, but I do have the following definitive observations:

• Captain Falcon's dair gets counted as a meteor no matter which of the 3 hitboxes you hit the enemy with. That is, if you KO a foe with his dair, the game adds one to the count of Meteor KOs. Normally, Meteor spikes are meteor cancellable, but there are plenty of meteors in the game which are neither spikes nor cancellable.

• I never saw the CPU meteor cancel his top hitbox.

• I definitely saw the CPU meteor cancel his bottom hitbox.

• When I went frame by frame, there seemed to be a difference when they could and could not meteor cancel: When they could, they were launched in an upright position. When they couldn't, they were spinning, head-downwards, much like falco and marth's dair victims do.

===============

In conclusion, I'm more than 95% certain that C. Falcon has a non-meteor-cancellable (aka 'true') spike on at least 1.1 -- I'm not convinced, however, that it is limited to only his top hitbox, or that it consists entirely of his top hitbox.
 
TheManaLord

TheManaLord

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Yay :D

How exactly do you "test" these things with an AR? I have an AR and I don't understand how to do "tests"...
 
P

phanna

Dread Phanna
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Florida
TheManaLord said:
Yay :D

How exactly do you "test" these things with an AR? I have an AR and I don't understand how to do "tests"...
Click to expand...
Well I fired up the Debug menu, put it in Develop mode, and played against a CPU_STAY kirby. He meteor cancels virtually everything he can, and to get a feel for things, I turned on hitboxes (R + d-pad-up) and bonus display (B + d-pad-left), and then just messed around with things, mostly dairing the crap out of kirby, pausing right before I would hit him, looking at our hitboxes, then going frame by frame for a bit with the Z button, then unpausing and repeating.
 
pkmvodka

pkmvodka

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May 28, 2004
Messages
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Montréal
Ratking1234 said:
I am glad you actually went and tested it and corrected yourself from your old post... We tested it even more this weekend up in washington at skypal. Its real, you cannot cancel it, and DIing it so the angle isnt 45 doesnt make it cancelable all of a sudden. If you hit with the proper part, then you cant cancel it. Works in both versions as well I would assume. All original testing was not done in 1.0, but people are saying 1.0 it works.
Click to expand...
I never said it does. I'm just saying that way back, the CPU just DIed the bottom part to the right, making it look like it was the upper part hitting.
 
eighteenspikes

eighteenspikes

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2005
Messages
4,358
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Neenah, WI
Someone should look into this more. I've been messing around for a bit and this is what I've found:

Fox and Falco
Dair to SHNS: 55% - 75%
Raptor Boost to SHNS: 65% - 85%
Dair to FHNS: 75% - 90%
Raptor Boost to FHNS: 85% - 105%

Marth
Dair to SHNS: 35% - 50%
Raptor Boost to SHNS: 0% - 40%
Dair to FHNS: 55% - 80%
Raptor Boost to FHNS: 35% - 65%

I tested these on cpu's in training mode. They don't DI, but then again it's not very likely you'll be nipple spiking any launches that are properly DI'ed...
The low % is the absolute lowest I've hit it at (with the launcher doing full damage) and the high % is either after doing the launcher a few times, or after waiting for a second. Since there's a considerable overlap for these 4 simple nipple spike setups, it's best to just go for whatever nipple spike setup your opponent's percentage is directly in the middle of. 0% nipple spike on Marth is hard to time but awesome, and hits Marth low enough so that he needs to double jump AND b+up to return, which is insane for a 0% spike. Basically every other nipple spike ensures death.
 
eighteenspikes

eighteenspikes

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Why doesn't anyone really talk about this anymore? There are no threads or discussions on this and it seems really good, whereas there are THREE Gentleman threads just on the first page! Anyways I made some .gif's and wrote an article on the smashwiki. Maybe now more people can hear about the Nipple Spike

http://www.smashwiki.com/wiki/Nipple_Spike
 
C

cyberdemon

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 24, 2005
Messages
456
They should discuss more about this spike. It's been like a year since this topic was discussed
 
eighteenspikes

eighteenspikes

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Neenah, WI
Thanks on the gif's, cyber... they're really not hard to make though :)
here's a side by side GIF showing the ganon combo from the last page next to an earlier attempt where I accidentally got a meteor instead of the nipple. The CPU always cancels it. You can clearly see the difference in where the dair connects:



thebluedeath1000 - People could discuss combos or methods of getting it or something. I dunno, it just seems like a waste how this technique is totally ignored. I don't even play captain falcon yet I think this is stuff that's actually worth looking into, as compared to the countless discussions over what timing or button presses you need to do a gentleman....
 
W

Wilhelmsan

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 22, 2006
Messages
1,006
Location
Austin, TX
I'm definitely gonna practice this. stomp -> sideB/knee -> nipplespike. I will take whole stocks in the blink of an eye if I can perfect it...mwahahahahahaaaaaa haaah.
 
TheManaLord

TheManaLord

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Joined
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Messages
6,283
Location
Upstate NY
Mmmm yes, I was thinking about how the fervor for this died out. But hey, I guess everyone knows it already! I've been using it in my game since it was confirmed as a spike for quite a while now.
 
R

Rage.

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
600
Location
Portland Oregon
Thank you eighteenspikes for making the gifs and artical on smashwiki :)

Ive known about the nipple spike for a long time because I play with Juce and we falcon
ditto a lot

I money matched him 10 and lost :(
 
knightpraetor

knightpraetor

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
2,321
this looks useful...i'm glad to finally read this..i always assumed this was a joke post or something
 
J

Juce

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 18, 2004
Messages
745
Location
Sherwood, Oregon
lol, i saw "Rage" and was like "wtf, i don't play with randoms very ofter" then the myspace thing helped me realized that you're johnny!!!

i'm glad to see people discussing this. i don't know if it should be added in the wiki article or not, but the whole trajectory of it. if fully DIed tward falcon, they will go straight down. this would make it better for edge gaurding considering lots of people can wall tech now.

btw, those gif's are too good. i love the combos. do you think i should put them in my first post?
 
sirlaser

sirlaser

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Joined
Apr 11, 2011
Messages
257
Location
Champaign, IL
There's gotta be a way to incorporate this into Falcon's game, like uthrow to fsmash on spacies @~100%
 
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