Zoroark vs. Lucario... THE FINAL DEBATE

[Robert of Normandy]

All the Jiggs hate is depressing to me. She's the definition of a Lethal Joke Character, a character nobody takes seriously but is actually a pretty good character. I'd be sad to see her go.

And I thought this was a Zoroark/Lucario thread, not a "hey let's talk about how much X/Y character sucks".

 

[Sunnysunny]

If he hadn't already, I'd probably be rooting for Meowth instead.

Mm Ditto. I think Meowth would be a way better choice at this point~! Atleast he's still hanging around in the Anime.

Anyway, woo Zoroark, I don't even know what that pokemon is.

Zoroark's basically the new mascot for gen 5. He was set up to be a well received like lucario, but didn't quite get the same reception. He's getting as much love as he is hate. Also yes, Cleffa's freaking adorable~! <3 If only, If only~

I would like to point out, that Genesect may pose a potential threat to Zoroark at this point, especially since it's no longer in the "revealed too late to even consider" category.

As much as I totally want Zoroark to get in, he's got alot of people gunning for his spot. Victini and Genesect are two for sure. A gen 6 pokemon is a possibility too, but it depends how early it comes out before smash 4s release. Either way, whoever gets in as the "New rep" I won't mind. They all seem interesting. A cyborg bug with a canon mounted on its back does sound pretty ****ing awesome~ <3

 

[Aurane]

Lucario's actually popular though. More so then even Zoroark who IS new. Using the "Its last gen" argument doesn't work in this case. Maybe i'll agree when 6th gen rolls around, and he DOES fall from fame, but that hasn't happened yet. Don't use what you assume will happen as an argument. Look at mewtwo. 1st gen, and he's still incredibly popular.

Exactly. Lucario was in a special anime-intro for B2W2. The Pokemon team recognizes him still as an important Pokemon. I didn't see Zoroark in that intro, either.

 

[SmasherMaster]

I think that Zoroark and Lucario should both stay and Jigglypuff is cut. My reasoning is because we alreayd have Pikachu and sometimes the Pokemon Trainer representing the first gen. Lucario and Zoroark each represent another generation.

I DO NOT HATE JIGGLYPUFF! I just think that the first generation is over-representated.

 

[Ember Reaper]

I'm hoping for both honestly. I'd rather Lucario stay, so we don't have to go through the removal of characters again with mewtwo roy etc.
Zoroark is unique as well, so I'd like to see him, but not at the expense of a veteran.
Jiggs is an extreme veteran now. Been here since the beginning. Over representing first gen yes, but it's Jigglypuff!

 

[Ridley_Prime]

This is still going on? -.-

 

[Powerstars]

Both with Mewtwo. But if you force me to choose, I would go with....neither. Just put Mewtwo back in.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Lucario is most likely out. Adding another pokemon rep would be excessive so they'll end up swapping out Lucario for someone else. The roster isn't going to be much bigger for the next game, therefore keeping Lucario and adding Mewtwo and Zoroark is pretty much a 0 possibility.

 

[Deleted member]

I think that Zoroark and Lucario should both stay and Jigglypuff is cut. My reasoning is because we alreayd have Pikachu and sometimes the Pokemon Trainer representing the first gen. Lucario and Zoroark each represent another generation.

I DO NOT HATE JIGGLYPUFF! I just think that the first generation is over-representated.

Jigglypuff is not getting cut. I wouldn't worry about that.

We can fit in eight Pokemon characters (transformation included) and fit in eight more characters for a 49 character situation.

- Brawl Roster
- Mewtwo
- Zoroark/Genesect
- Roy
- King K. Rool
- Ridley
- Palutena
- Takamaru
- Mega Man

Would make a good roster.

 

[Aurane]

Jigglypuff is not getting cut. I wouldn't worry about that.

I'm going to laugh my *** off if he does somehow get cut.

 

[Sol9000]

My opinions of Lucario and Zoroark in a nutshell

Deal wid it.ool088:

 

[Mulecc]

"I never really liked Lucario. But I love Zoroark. I loved using her in Pokemon White so I'm fine having her replace Lucario (With Mewtwo joining alongside her)."

I love lucario, he's my favourite pokemon (excluding marill who is just awesome.) I would have thought a gentleman like yourself could see how cool lucario is .

But yeah I wouldn't like to see zoroak replace lucario even though I think that is very likely to happen.

 

[deuxhero]

I just plain don't see Zoroark getting in at all. Their only merit for inclusion is that they are the first 5th gen Pokemon revealed, but gen 6's first Pokemon will be shown "soon" (late 2013 or early 2014) if GF keeps up their patterns (gens last 4 years, first teaseing happens roughly a year before hand). This will be FAR before this game is released, and I doubt Sakurai or GF (who has to approve anything Pokemon related) is going to "advertising" an outdated game.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I doubt Sakurai or GF (who has to approve anything Pokemon related) is going to "advertising" an outdated game.

Pit, Pokemon Trainer (Red), Lucas, Game&Watch, Ice Climbers, and Olimar all say "hi."

Sakurai doesn't care if a game is outdated or not. If the character is still popular, then the character is most likely getting in.

 

[deuxhero]

Pit, Pokemon Trainer (Red), Lucas, Game&Watch, Ice Climbers, and Olimar all say "hi."

Sakurai doesn't care if a game is outdated or not. If the character is still popular, then the character is most likely getting in.

ZERO of which got in for "advertising" or because they were new, which is all Zoroark can claim./

 

[Deleted member]

It's never been proven that Pokemon characters are added for advertisement anyway, so....

What really makes a 6th Gen (or even Zoroark for that matter) likely?
The way I see it, all Sakurai needs to do is bring back Mewtwo and call it a day.
I'm pretty sure there would be less complaints if he did that than if he replaced Lucario with Zoroark or a 6th Gen based off of some arbitrary "advertisment" rule that has yet to be proven.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Then going by your logic no 5th generation Pokemon should even make the final roster...

EDIT: Ninja'd

 

[jigglover]

I think they should put Mew and Mewtwo in as an ice-climbers like tag team, and then put in lucario and Zoroark!

 

[BerryBomber]

I wish all 3 could just make it. They all have their own potential, but its the annoying fact that the mewtwo moveset will be copy and pasted again. If they all had a major touch-up and got a more diverse original movesets, they could all be in-game.

Its like Fox, Falco and Wolf. One was added each game, but Fox's moveset was just copy-pasted then tweaked. Theres no reason why this cant be done for Mewtwo, Lucario and Zoroark. Unlike Starfox though, Mewtwo got replaced in Brawl.

 

[Deleted member]

Mewtwo's moveset wasn't "copied".

Lucario has only two similar moves. TWO. -_-

 

[BerryBomber]

True, true. Sorry, I have not played Melee in a looong time ^^' to my knowledge I figured they were quite similar.

 

[---]

There's no proof to Generations or Advertising coming into play when Sakurai makes his character choices. It's only who would fit into and add to the game, with popularity often playing a role in getting such and such character noticed.

With Pokemon (like FE and Mother) there's next to no main recurring cast of characters which means there's a lot of good-but-not-mandatory choices. This is especially true with Pokemon as it has the largest cast of characters in Smash, hense it being the most flexable series of them all. As long as Pikachu and Red are there he could pull the rest of out a hat and it'd probably end up being good.

Remember that Ike got in by suggestion of IS, who Sakurai (a major and probably picky FE fan) came up to asking for a new guy, that would fit into Smash fairly easy, who he had made space for. It's a good bet that TPC was the same way with Lucario. So with Zoroark/any 5th Gen Pokemon it's a matter of whether or not Sakura feels like opening up a new guy spot this time, which I myself am betting against due to:

1. the strong reaction to losing characters in Brawl,
2. the overwhelming preference for the existing guys over any particular Gen 5 guy (this plus TPC's efforts to push the new stuff are both nothing new however),
3. the series getting it's own item to give cameos of it's large cast and to somewhat meet fan demand,
4. the massive size of the total roster leaving less room for those more whimsical (ex. G&W, ROB, Roy) additions,
5. also Sakurai outright saying there'd be less focus on the roster this time around.

 

[deuxhero]

Then going by your logic no 5th generation Pokemon should even make the final roster...

EDIT: Ninja'd

By my logic my point is correct?

 

[The Real Gamer]

You do know this is all just speculation right? You nor I can prove anything... lol

Even if there isn't a generation 5 rep it's not going to because of Sakurai/GF refusing to advertise an gen 5 Pokemon from an "outdated" game... It's most likely going to be because of reasons that "---" summed up pretty well.

 

[Opossum]

I just realized I can lock this thread now, now that Zoroark's deconfirmed and Lucario's in.