Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[KuroganeHammer]

ok
is BAir trash tier?

It's unreliable and punishable on hit, so sure.

But in comparison to her other options, it's ok.

 

[Macchiato]

@ BJN39

Yew need to talk to marioandsonic guy and tell him that almost legendary is a troll and to not include his vote

 

[SBphiloz4]

Thinking about it though, I'm not sure if you accomplished much by annihilating a troll. And I still think IMO that Rosalina is 6:4 against Zelda. Don't tell the Boozelina boards though.

But eh, beating silly people with Zelda is always nice. :^)

 

[Soul.]

That depends on what you think of as trash tier, really.

Its sweet-spot didn't get an increase from its puny Brawl size, and retains it's very weak disadvantageous on HIT sour-spots.

It now has a duration of around 55 frames, which since it hits on frame 6-9, that means a lot of lag. On top of this, its late auto-cancel window was moved to after frame 52, (from around frame 30) meaning you'll more often suffer it's now slightly increased from Brawl 25 landing lag frames.

It cannot be ignored though, that the sweet-spot is one of, if not the most powerful aerial hit-box in the game. Killing at 80-90, (Which in this game, is amazing.) and even earlier when rage comes into play. It's also no slouch at damage either.

Its use has to be very careful, and well placed, but successful use can be very rewarding, even making the many bad points get overlooked in favor of trying to land it. Beautiful when landed, depressing when flubbed or whiffed entirely.

I believe it's maybe more like low-mid BAir tier, or the top of bad BAir tier at lowest.

Frame 55 in duration? Damn, that is so slow. Maybe FAir's is shorter.
Obviously a smart Zelda would not use it almost always because risks, even if the reward is big, like Wailord big.

 

[Lavani]

Relevant to nothing, but I am going to drop this here because I feel it is important.

 

[BJN39]

Frame 55 in duration? Damn, that is so slow. Maybe FAir's is shorter.
Obviously a smart Zelda would not use it almost always because risks, even if the reward is big, like Wailord big.

FAir should be quicker to end by a couple frames at least. In SSB4, FAir has less landing lag (by 2 frames) and an earlier late auto-cancel (again by 2 frames) I think it was Sakurai's design choice to balance out the slightly higher KB BAir's sweet-spot has. (And had since Brawl.) which is weird considering they could've just evened out their KBs instead of making BAir weird...

 

[Macchiato]

Even after crushing that scrub he still thinks it's 7-3. What?!

 

[Lozjam]

Anyone want to play smash with me?

 

[Lavani]

FAir should be quicker to end by a couple frames at least. In SSB4, FAir has less landing lag (by 2 frames) and an earlier late auto-cancel (again by 2 frames) I think it was Sakurai's design choice to balance out the slightly higher KB BAir's sweet-spot has. (And had since Brawl.) which is weird considering they could've just evened out their KBs instead of making BAir weird...

This strikes me as odd considering other design choices anyway; outside of like...Diddy?...characters tend to have better bairs than fairs.

I mean it's just a 2 frame difference in landing lag on a move that starts 3 frames faster and hits harder, but still.

 

[Macchiato]

Anyone want to play smash with me?

Make a room sis

 

[BJN39]

Even after crushing that scrub he still thinks it's 7-3. What?!

Some people can't be turned, I suppose.

As for talking to Mario_and_Sonic_ Guy, I get the impression he wouldn't delete any MU opinions, and that it's more of a "we accept all numbers" MU thread. Which would be bad.

I mean, he added Hurule Candy's crazy number too.

 

[Lavani]

and that it's more of a "we accept all numbers" MU thread.

Main reason I ignore the thread. Taking an average of the inputs from anyone that feels like submitting numbers is a pretty bad way to get anything accurate.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

@ Macchiato is amazing

 

[Soul.]

FAir should be quicker to end by a couple frames at least. In SSB4, FAir has less landing lag (by 2 frames) and an earlier late auto-cancel (again by 2 frames) I think it was Sakurai's design choice to balance out the slightly higher KB BAir's sweet-spot has. (And had since Brawl.) which is weird considering they could've just evened out their KBs instead of making BAir weird...

I dunno. I think BAir and FAir have been weird since Melee.

What's going on with the Rosalina and Zelda matchup thing anyways?

 

[Lavani]

What's going on with the Rosalina and Zelda matchup thing anyways?

Stubborn folks insisting their waifu is better than your waifu no matter what.
I still can't see the matchup being worse than even for Rosalina, but I also have next to no matchup experience in it and can see where Zelda can give her trouble.

 

[BJN39]

I dunno. I think BAir and FAir have been weird since Melee.

*nods* They have.

In Melee, FAir/BAir could flipping stale EACH OTHER.

 

[Soul.]

Stubborn folks insisting their waifu is better than your waifu no matter what.
I still can't see the matchup being worse than even for Rosalina, but I also have next to no matchup experience in it and can see where Zelda can give her trouble.

"waifu" still sounds something from the feet to me.
I don't think Rosa has bad matchups either.

*nods* They have.

In Melee, FAir/BAir could flipping stale EACH OTHER.

So if you FAir and stall it you stall BAir as well?
Has science gone too far?

 

[Fireemblemfreak]

*nods* They have.

In Melee, FAir/BAir could flipping stale EACH OTHER.

I have a dumb question. Wouldn't Zelda be considered her best in Melee? I mean she's still bad but compared to the other games?

 

[Macchiato]

@ Macchiato is amazing

Thank yew sis

@ L Latte after "that" can I get my SSS tier crown back?

 

[BJN39]

I have a dumb question. Wouldn't Zelda be considered her best in Melee? I mean she's still bad but compared to the other games?

Probably yes, but the reason is bad imo, because she's practically the worst iteration in every way aside from ha kicks and Dsmash. (maybe) @Aleate is the strongest believer in Melee Zelda being the best iteration. I see them as roughly equal in viability.

 

[Lorde]

I have a dumb question. Wouldn't Zelda be considered her best in Melee? I mean she's still bad but compared to the other games?

I think Brawl is her best incarnation. It was the engine that was bad for Zelda.

Zelda has 3 usable moves in Melee (dmash, fair, and bair). Everything else was just lolbad.

 

[Lozjam]

Why doesn't my Ganondorf work when I have gone through a bad day.... Sigh. Good thing I made my Link better.

 

[Fireemblemfreak]

Probably yes, but the reason is bad imo, because she's practically the worst iteration in every way aside from ha kicks and Dsmash. (maybe) @Aleate is the strongest believer in Melee Zelda being the best iteration. I see them as roughly equal in viability.

Ah. Yeah, I've heard many say she's only got those moves in Melee. Thanks. I kinda just want Zelda to be low tier, but not for stupid reasons, like how Faeore's works in this game, etc

 

[evmaxy54]

Stupid wee thingys:

On BF, if you lose a stock & you're on the restart platform thingy, if you jump & immediately Up B downwards you ledge cancel off the top platform.

Also, if you're going for the ledge on any stage, if you hold down after the game registers your direction you actually overshoot the ledge & appear a bit above it (though you need to be quick with the input). Might be somewhat useful on some players/characters who are thirsty for the edgeguard.
Though, try not to do it diagonally on BF you will potentially SD

And one last thing, doing B-reversed Phantoms off platforms is fun as all heck.

 

[Mocha]

HAVE I MISSED ANY APEX ZELDA STUFF??

 

[BJN39]

You guys xan troll as much as you want but that doesn't change anything about how I feel about the MU. Even playing that guy didn't change anything. If you guts are willing to use him as your Zelda rep then by all means. Go ahead if you guys continue to troll I will stop holding back. Also I reported the guy above (that would be Kuro) for trolling.

Wut

 

[Fernosaur]

HAVE I MISSED ANY APEX ZELDA STUFF??

Nope.

 

[Autumn ♫]

I actually completetly forgot about APEX. Whoops. I guess I always have next year.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

HAVE I MISSED ANY APEX ZELDA STUFF??

You missed Zelda transforming into Sheik and killing everyone

 

[Lavani]

Stupid wee thingys:

On BF, if you lose a stock & you're on the restart platform thingy, if you jump & immediately Up B downwards you ledge cancel off the top platform.

Also, if you're going for the ledge on any stage, if you hold down after the game registers your direction you actually overshoot the ledge & appear a bit above it (though you need to be quick with the input). Might be somewhat useful on some players/characters who are thirsty for the edgeguard.
Though, try not to do it diagonally on BF you will potentially SD

And one last thing, doing B-reversed Phantoms off platforms is fun as all heck.

Neat stuff with the Battlefield platforms.

I was talking about the warp-around-the-ledge thing like a month ago, though I guess I didn't elaborate much beyond that silly picture and one gif with a horizontal warp sliding up a ledge. Stuff to keep in mind with it:

- If you end up under the ledge on a stage with a sloped underside, you'll either go up and away from the ledge and SD, or slip under the stage and SD.
- If you hit the ledge head-on or a straight vertical wall, you will move straight up and reappear above the ledge.
- At certain angles, hitting the top corner of the ledge will actually make you slide around it without changing your angle.

Oh and @ BJN39 already mentioned it today but if you use windfall it hits before it ledgesnaps regardless so that's a thing to consider, if you're using FWF for whatever reason.

 

[Fireemblemfreak]

HAVE I MISSED ANY APEX ZELDA STUFF??

I haven't seen anything. I honestly haven't really seen anything interesting at all yet

 

[Ffamran]

Main reason I ignore the thread. Taking an average of the inputs from anyone that feels like submitting numbers is a pretty bad way to get anything accurate.

The Falco boards MU threads are more like opinions and discussions, so we don't get a lot of numbers... That or it's because the boards are a desolate wasteland.

I actually completetly forgot about APEX. Whoops. I guess I always have next year.

I just wait for uploaded videos, so I can pick what I want to watch.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I got reported

The report was rejected immediately

 

[BJN39]

I got reported

The report was rejected immediately

HA

Edited for emphasis.

Edit:

Na if there were two equally skilled Zelda and Rosalina players the matches would favor Rosalina. As for the skill level difference I'll say no comment.

PhhggnnntT...

...

 

[evmaxy54]

Neat stuff with the Battlefield platforms.

I was talking about the warp-around-the-ledge thing like a month ago, though I guess I didn't elaborate much beyond that silly picture and one gif with a horizontal warp sliding up a ledge. Stuff to keep in mind with it:

- If you end up under the ledge on a stage with a sloped underside, you'll either go up and away from the ledge and SD, or slip under the stage and SD.
- If you hit the ledge head-on or a straight vertical wall, you will move straight up and reappear above the ledge.
- At certain angles, hitting the top corner of the ledge will actually make you slide around it without changing your angle.

Oh and @ BJN39 already mentioned it today but if you use windfall it hits before it ledgesnaps regardless so that's a thing to consider, if you're using FWF for whatever reason.

I must've missed it sorry sis ;_;

But that info is nice to have in mind danke schön!

Also, I'm not too sure how known this is, but a FH Dair is auto-cancelled when landing on the bottom platforms of BF from the ground (provided you don't FF)

 

[Latte]

@ L Latte after "that" can I get my SSS tier crown back?

Yes, definitely.

 

[Lavani]

I must've missed it sorry sis ;_;

You probably saw it and just forgot!

 

[evmaxy54]

You probably saw it and just forgot!

OMQ I REMEMBER IT NOW :O

 

[Macchiato]

GGs @ Lozjam that was fun. Your Ganondorf got really good since last time. Any zelda or ike advice?

 

[Yuniverse]

Hey zelda mains idk if this is thread for this or not but has any one tried her perfect pivot options. Perfect pivot up smash almost feels like we have brawl up smash again :D