Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Soluble Toast]

Hahaha. That was brilliant.Thank god for Little Mac's awful recovery.

 

[Rickster]

http://youtu.be/BWrbBw--YnA

On the subject of Little Mac earlier, this was an amusing little match I had recently.

I almost feel a bit bad for the boxer guy (I really don't).

Also forgive the cruddy cellphone video, haha.

LOL that was just perfect!

The only Little Mac I went up against as Zelda just kept SDing with his jumping lunge attack. That's one way to win.

 

[GameAngel64]

Anyone come up against any wily Bowser Jr.s? In my case, it was a wily Lemmy Koopa. First battle I've come across against that character and he had a solid strategy using those mecha koopas. Not sure if that is a bad match up for Zelda, or just a case where he is a new character that no one has much practice fighting against, but I definitely felt like like he was in control of that match up!

 

[Novice_Brave]

AHHH! I've been playing too much to even think about Smashboards

So far, I'm really pretty pleased with my results online! I've done 75 For Glory matches at the moment, and I'm sitting pretty on an 83% win rate. I've found dash attack, dtilt, jab, and dsmash to be my best friends up close - really surprised by how well she seems to hold her own this time around in melee fights. Din's is definitely nerfed - but I'm honestly finding it pretty useful. Din's + phantoms makes them really have to work to get back from when I knock them back a fair ways, and they'll often either take damage from the din's/phantoms on the way back or from an attack of mine that I'll punish an airdodge with - Din's has also scored more surprise kills than expected... that sweetspot is really pretty powerful, despite all the other nerfs. FW has also been my best friend - need to get used to the fact that it forced full travel distance if you use it in the air, though. Thankfully, I'm learning that and doing really well with it. Nayru's a lifesaver in a lot of situations, good "gtfo" move for if they're up in yo' face, and ofc reflecting projectiles can often be a lifesaver. Phantom is actually much more useful for me than I thought it be.

I dunno why, but I've felt the whole time that my fairs and bairs were coming out faster? Weird. Definitely feel easier to sweetspot. Dair sweetspotting on grounded opponents has been pretty great, too.

Worst thing for me is actually the horrible nerf to usmash's horizontal range D: now they have to be pretty much directly above the stupid little circle and in the air for it to hit. Eh.

I've only seen people "fall" out of my fsmash if I don't hit them in front of me on the ground. If they're in the air and get hit by the upper part of the move, they fall out - but its fully connected every time on grounded opponents as far as I could tell. So that's good!

Overall, I must say that I really love Zelda in this game. Idk, she just feels better and cleaner in just about every way, and she's holding her own very well. Again, I don't intend on guessing where she'll end up in the tiers, but regardless of where she ends up I'm very pleased with her direction and think it's the best one yet.

The only character I have a higher winrate with is Rosalina... who has a 100% winrate out of 6 games. Still prefer to play Zelda atm though

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I saw someone claim thier for glory win rate as an attestment to how good zelda was here, so i tried for glory and am 35/1 so i feel like it's not the best judge of skill

 

[Rizen]

Beating casual players is like shooting fish in a barrel.

 

[Novice_Brave]

I saw someone claim thier for glory win rate as an attestment to how good zelda was here, so i tried for glory and am 35/1 so i feel like it's not the best judge of skill

'Aight yo, I wasn't using it as a method of claiming how gr8 Zelda was, I was just saying my winrate because I'm pretty satisfied with it and having the game is exciting for me.

No, ofc online isn't ever going to be the best place to judge skill, but it's what I've got right now and I'm doing it almost constantly. It's the way I'm experiencing playing against other humans right now, so I'm working with what I've got. I do think Zelda is better. I specifically said I will make no claims as to how she will place on the tier list - she could very well be just as low as Brawl - I'm just saying that I am pleased with her and find her playable regardless of where she ends up. Chillax, it's the social thread. Girls just wanna have fun.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

i wasnt talking about you, lol

someone else who posted a few hours ago

 

[Novice_Brave]

i wasnt talking about you, lol

someone else who posted a few hours ago

Oh, kek. Well, I still stand by everything I said regardless.

Anyway, I should probably go try to learn some other characters, but I just can't stop myself from playing Zelda right now.

 

[Rickster]

I also think she's looking pretty good this time. She just seems to be...built better. The only thing that's really bothering me is the ending lag on Fair and Bair now. But the sweetspot is easier and they're faster, so I guess it's a fair trade.

I've also found a "combo" of sorts. Jab>Grab>Dthrow>Nair>Bair nets 43%. I don't think it's guaranteed though, but I have been able to land it somewhat consistently on medium sized characters and semi-fast fallers.

 

[Alacion]

Got the hang of Zelda... and kept winning and winning. She's not top tier or anything, but perhaps bottom of mid or top of low I guess.

And I fought against a few Zeldas as Peach. Din's Fire is essentially useless... barely even a pressuring move due to cancellation. I pretty much have a 100% punish rate against Farore's Wind on my shield as well.

Oh yes, and Din's Fire is actually quite good against Luma Not sure if Luma can cancel Din's Fire but Rosalina's first instinct is to shield against it which her partner can't do...

 

[KuroganeHammer]

OMFG WHEN YOU PUT THE SQUARE SEE THING ON THE TOUCH SCREEN PORTRAIT I HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO EXPLAIN THIS

BUT YOU CAN SEE WHERE ZELDA IS TELEPORTING

ZEDLA FOR **** TIER

 

[Rion]

OMFG WHEN YOU PUT THE SQUARE SEE THING ON THE TOUCH SCREEN PORTRAIT I HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO EXPLAIN THIS

BUT YOU CAN SEE WHERE ZELDA IS TELEPORTING

ZEDLA FOR **** TIER

EDIT: To clarify the "square see thing":

When you tap on someone's character portrait on the bottom screen of the 3DS, it puts these "aimers" on them.

They are still visible while teleporting.

This also works on people with invisible dodges like Rosalina and Palutena, so this is not exclusive to Zelda only.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

yes I was being super melodramatic but this does basically snuff out the idea that using the move offensively is a good idea. lol

 

[GameAngel64]

Well, this is just another reason that the Wii U version will likely be the more competitive of the two iterations since hopefully this feature will not exist there.

 

[Rion]

yes I was being super melodramatic but this does basically snuff out the idea that using the move offensively is a good idea. lol

This is assuming of course people actually end up using these aimers in the first place. For "real" tournaments, I'm sure this would be a banned thing regardless. Not to mention this probably would not be in the Wii U version for obvious reasons.

And as you said, Glory Mode doesn't really serve as a good judge of character viability, so that's out too no?

It's an annoyance (they make the P1 icon dissapear after all, so why wouldn't they do it for these too?), but hardly a "*** Tier" thing I would say since it's preventable, haha.

On another note, let's take a moment to look at how Phantom Breaker and Din's Blaze are delicious together (courtesy of http://smashboards.com/threads/zelda-day-1-combo-video.371331/ ):

Ah, it's just so satisfying to watch.

And Elana, I haven't really fought too many Bowser Jr.'s either, but remember you can reflect his puppets, and possibly his cannonball? I know you can reflect Megaman/Villager's Fsmash since they count as projectiles, so it would seem like it should work for Bowser Jr.'s cannonball as well but I would need confirmation on that one!

 

[KuroganeHammer]

This is assuming of course people actually end up using these aimers in the first place. For "real" tournaments, I'm sure this would be a banned thing regardless. Not to mention this probably would not be in the Wii U version for obvious reasons.

And as you said, Glory Mode doesn't really serve as a good judge of character viability, so that's out too no?

It's an annoyance (they make the P1 icon dissapear after all, so why wouldn't they do it for these too?), but hardly a "*** Tier" thing I would say since it's preventable, haha.

I help run tournaments and I think it would be very unusual to ban the aimer things.

It just feels like an incredible stealth nerf to Farore's Wind

they should just replace Zelda's Up B with Wario's Down B.

 

[Rion]

I help run tournaments and I think it would be very unusual to ban the aimer things.

It just feels like an incredible stealth nerf to Farore's Wind

they should just replace Zelda's Up B with Wario's Down B.

Wait, why would it be unusual to ban them? It's not like they've ever been in any other Smash game, and isn't the above reasonings enough to not use them for when people use those characters who are supposed to have that built in character advantage?

Either way, it's not like you can accidentally turn them on either. You really have to tap the character portrait on purpose to make it even appear, so setting it as a rule to not use the aimers seems... reasonable,

Maybe ban is a strong word, but you know what I mean. It hardly seems like a outlandish thing to enforce; who's going to say "Why can't we use the aimers? That's unfair!" anyway? Haha.

 

[gagelax]

Wow, you guys are making sound like so much fun to play! Argh, I'm so excited to get the game, too bad it's gonna be awhile.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I've found the aimers to be helpful when playing in doubles.

It also gives you an idea of your/their hurtboxes

I don't see any reason to ban them ever since they're not disruptive to players lol

I just dont think any tournament worth their salt will ban it

 

[Rion]

I've found the aimers to be helpful when playing in doubles.

It also gives you an idea of your/their hurtboxes

I don't see any reason to ban them ever since they're not disruptive to players lol

I just dont think any tournament worth their salt will ban it

I figured since it gives certain character's a sudden disadvantage, as you were saying earlier with how it suddenly dampens Zelda's gameplay even more than usual (as one example, not just her), it would be pretty obvious to just not use them. Isn't that disruptive enough?

The fact that it actually aids you in judging hurtboxes as you say during gameplay seems like another reason to not use them either. No other fighting game has really used such things and we didn't have them in 64, Melee or Brawl, so what's the difference now?

It just seems very unorthodox is all. Almost "hand holding" if I may, as part of the skill of these games is having to judge your opponent and your own hurtboxes in a match of your own accord.

Having a "visual aid" to make it easier seems a bit... lame? In training mode or something sure that seems like good practice, but in an actual match it seems sort of silly.

That is just my 2 cents. We're all gonna ditch the 3DS version when the Wii U one comes out anywho, lol~

 

[Alacion]

OMFG WHEN YOU PUT THE SQUARE SEE THING ON THE TOUCH SCREEN PORTRAIT I HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO EXPLAIN THIS

BUT YOU CAN SEE WHERE ZELDA IS TELEPORTING

ZEDLA FOR **** TIER

That's an awful discovery, lol. Hopefully people don't catch on.

I did fight this one Zelda and got completely bopped. Only got to play one game against this person, but he definitely seemed to have a much better grasp of the character than me. Definitely may have to start playing more defensive... and from what I'm seeing the game in general is leaning towards a defensive game and that's only going to hurt Zelda. Feeling like she gets away with dash attacks far too often... of course this is coming from a person that can't Farore's to the ledge 90% of the time unless it is from below.

 

[GameAngel64]

And Elana, I haven't really fought too many Bowser Jr.'s either, but remember you can reflect his puppets, and possibly his cannonball? I know you can reflect Megaman/Villager's Fsmash since they count as projectiles, so it would seem like it should work for Bowser Jr.'s cannonball as well but I would need confirmation on that one!

Hi, thanks for the reply. Yes, you can reflect those things, but this guy's strategy was SOLID. It hardly impeded him at all.

 

[Rion]

That's an awful discovery, lol. Hopefully people don't catch on.

I did fight this one Zelda and got completely bopped. Only got to play one game against this person, but he definitely seemed to have a much better grasp of the character than me. Definitely may have to start playing more defensive... and from what I'm seeing the game in general is leaning towards a defensive game and that's only going to hurt Zelda. Feeling like she gets away with dash attacks far too often... of course this is coming from a person that can't Farore's to the ledge 90% of the time unless it is from below.

Definitely when both players start playing uber defensive, does it get very, very long for Zelda. A bit of a battle of attrition, but it's doable.

Except fighting characters like Jigglypuff. Man, that is just so one sided for me. I can't stand having to deal with the weaving in and out as she pleases with her bair wall of doom. Probably the only time I seriously considered being another character for this match up in particular because of how uphill it was. Then again, I always did hate the multi jump characters like her/Dedede/Kirby.

On another note, I actually find not sweetspotting the ledge sometimes ends up being sort of a silly mindgame with some people haha. Like, they're expecting me to snap to the ledge so they don't shield, but I end up teleporting into them instead for a knockback/KO. It's sortaaaa by accident sometimes, but hey I'll take it lol~

Elana, this'll sound so funny but that combo video you did with Melee Zelda ages ago kind of inspired me back when I was younger to stick with her as a character. Haven't really gone with any other character since for the most part (thanks for the inspiration)!

Talk about out of the blue though, sorry!

 

[GameAngel64]

Haha, Rion, glad you liked it. I think it's cool how so many old faces who haven't been on the board for years (self included) have reappeared to celebrate/bash the newest addition to the Smash series. "Breaking retirement," so to speak.

 

[Rickster]

That square see thing is very unfortunate, but I don't think it's the end of the world for Zelda. It definitely makes Farore's completely unviable AT ALL for offense (then again we all knew that already). I also don't think the square thing can stop Farore's OoS. Risky, but effective, I've found.

 

[Ztarfish]

EDIT: To clarify the "square see thing":

When you tap on someone's character portrait on the bottom screen of the 3DS, it puts these "aimers" on them.

They are still visible while teleporting.

This also works on people with invisible dodges like Rosalina and Palutena, so this is not exclusive to Zelda only.

Good ****ing lord lmao.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

That's an awful discovery, lol. Hopefully people don't catch on.

Yes, I saw it yesterday an was like...

This completely kills Farore's into people like that random 2008 meta person was suggesting.

Basically unless we're playing people who commit to charging smash attacks far away, offensive up b is just awful

 

[Rizen]

That sucks I doubt it will be banned though; it takes a lot to ban something no matter how broken *choughBrawlMKcough*.

 

[Rion]

Man, you guys really are taking this whole aimers thing pretty hard haha.

I can't be the only one who sees that using them is completely avoidable. Unless you want to be a stickler and be like "It's in the game! I should be allowed to use this feature even if it gives me an unfair advantage!" then well yeah, sure I guess.

Talk about the doom and gloom patrol in here, goodness.

 

[Kataefi]

Soooooooooo.......

I have the game too and I'm having huuuuge issues against little mac and greninja and captain falcon... basically anyone fast.

I can't land for **** on the ground... I recommend to anyone facing these guys to not even bother landing on the ground because they'll ALWAYS catch you. Just shoot straight for the ledge at whatever percent (where you'll guarantee recovery).

Also farore's is fantastic against anyone with projectiles. So much lag in the projectile department it makes me lol a lot. Anyone shooting a projectile at you can be punished easily by just teleporting into them, and that's great because the opponent will learn to not camp you at later percents, making the match more footsies based IMO.

Also something about phantom... when I launch someone in the air I've been jumping back and retreating a phantom as they land, and then shooting it forward to catch them as soon as they touch the ground. Whether they attack or dodge is irrelevant because they'll always get hit. Timing is strict because the phantom doesn't actually register hit detection when it launches out... it has a set destination that it strikes (y'all already knew this... but basically to trap them on the ground well you'll need to space AND time the phantom against the opponent's landing)

Also omg... I can't recover... like at all!!! ahhhhhhh

 

[EOE]

I've already got into the habit of retreating with the Phantom. It's just way too slow to be effective.
I'm trying to cut down to using it once or twice per game just for the surprise factor.

And yeah, I completely agree that the Greninja and Little Mac matchups are going to be awful. Punishing is probably the most important aspect of these matchups, because it's really the only time you're going to land a hit against a decent player. Zelda's close range stuff is just too slow. At least D-tilt spacing is easier now that there's less cool-down.

Also, I've been seeing people complain about not being to recover a lot.. but I don't see the problem.
Farore's wind auto-snaps now and it carries momentum from a jump, meaning you can get to the ledge from basically anywhere off-stage. The controls just take time to adjust to. I personally haven't ever had a problem with recovering in this game.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Also, I've been seeing people complain about not being to recover a lot.. but I don't see the problem.
Farore's wind auto-snaps now and it carries momentum from a jump, meaning you can get to the ledge from basically anywhere off-stage. The controls just take time to adjust to. I personally haven't ever had a problem with recovering in this game.

I think getting used to the circle pad is what's causing some people to have recovery issues. the circle pad sometimes due to being so...flat sometimes i think make people point slightly off from where they intend to go sometimes. i've had 90% recovery success but sometimes i do reappear a little off from time to time lol.

 

[Toadallstar2]

My re-eapparence has been pretty successful as well. As others said, it's way better to just go straight under the ledge and then go up. Also don't even push up because it could be slightly off, just let go once the start up begins and it will snap. Had this habit in Brawl, and here I must get rid of it due to the sensitivity.

I too have had trouble against Mac/Greninja. Understand their movesets help.

If Gren camps, punish with FW. If Mac charges his B, FW.

Phantom can be good against Mac, especially serving as a wall, and then go in and grab or dash.

Just play very defensively. Bait Gren's dair, it's like toon link's. Also bait Mac's Up+B, he leaps up, and it's deadly.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

is anyone else 3ds freezing alot because of smash? i've had mine constantly frezze on me XD

 

[Rizen]

I've been awake for 24 strait hours and I think I'm hallucinating. I thought I just read Fujin likes the phantom. I need to get some sleep.

 

[BJN39]

^ I agree Phantom is a fun move to use. I hope we can find something good for it competitively.

Heck at least it's gorgeous visually. Maybe we can use it as a taunt after a KO if it turns out to be useless.

 

[EOE]

I thought the Phantom was terrible when I started playing, but it is actually really fun to use.

I think the Phantom Breaker is probably the most useful, considering it's often shielded and a fully charged down-B will break a full shield. Also, the Phantom Breaker is always max range, which seems to be useful for edge-guarding.

The best way to use the Phantom is probably when recovering, in order to clear the edge of the stage.

 

[Rickster]

I too have been having trouble against anyone fast. Landing is a pain, and Zelda only really has jab and dtilt for quick close range optons.

As for the Phantom, I'm also finding it quite useful! I usually use it for edgeguarding (you'd be surprised how many people get caught by it) and as extra protection coming back to the stage. Although I have to say, it's a very useful shield. Especially against Link's projectiles. I would say you can camp with it and Din's, but we all know how great Din's is.

Oh, and as for the 3DS freezing, mine has been fine.

 

[Rickster]

I've yet to try it out. I hardly have any custom moves unlocked. Too much online lol. Although I'm torn between which Din's I'll actually use when I get them. Fast Din's sacrifices vertical movement, and lingering Din's adds more slowness to an already slow move...but that Din's > Fair combo looks amazing (but very situational).

EDIT: FujinTalksAboutDin'sFire part 2?