zelda punks

[hack-killer]

dont u hate it when ppl say zelda sucks then they play because ethir
u play her and they think ur cheap or because they think that her
fire ball is super strong and use her cause of that and only that?
well i call em zelda punks -'_-

 

[Kirby Redux]

thats great....

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

that just means less Zeldas out there... whih I'm fine with... I don't want Zelda to be given a bad name in the hands of n00bs or be overused like snake and MK

 

[#HBC | Scary]

that just means less Zeldas out there... whih I'm fine with... I don't want Zelda to be given a bad name in the hands of n00bs or be overused like snake and MK

I can agree to that!

 

[Iron Thorn]

I can agree to that!

I third this motion. Unlike Meta-knight, I can play as Zelda without feeling guilty.

 

[orochijes]

I prefer playing as unapprediated characters anyway.
More gratification for when you win ^_^

 

[adumbrodeus]

I third this motion. Unlike Meta-knight, I can play as Zelda without feeling guilty.

Don't feel guilty, play to win.

Once people learn how to play her properly she'll reclaim her spot as a high-tier character regardless.

 

[Iron Thorn]

Unfortunately, I havn't learned to play with her properly yet D: *hides in shaem*

 

[jbozz1217]

Well then you've come to the right place to learn! ... After all, this is the Zelda forum...

 

[Zelda_Sheik]

Yeah they say like " Zelda isn't good, she sukz " and then when I win with her "OMG she is so cool and so strong ". Why do the Zelda boards are having less and less visits. I remember when the game wasn't here and God, it was exciting. Now is getting kind of boring.

 

[hack-killer]

yeah They Say Like " Zelda Isn't Good, She Sukz " And Then When I Win With Her "omg She Is So Cool And So Strong ". Why Do The Zelda Boards Are Having Less And Less Visits. I Remember When The Game Wasn't Here And God, It Was Exciting. Now Is Getting Kind Of Boring.

Yus That Wat They Do To Me All The Time!!!

 

[COM7]

It used to bother me at my school's game club how one kid accused my of being cheap with Din's...so I stopped using it...then he got pissed at the lightning kicks...so I stopped using those...then the Dair, so I stopped using that...
HOW CAN I SPAM WHEN HE PICKED OUT FOUR MOVES IN THE SAME 15 MINUTE SITTING? I GUARENTEE THAT MY NEUTRAL A WAS GOING TO BE THE NEXT IN THE SITTING.
But a lot of people used to mistake me for peach but now anytime a Zelda comes up in game club they automatically assume its me, sure, noone else plays her but its nice to feel special, I play Peach, Jigglypuff and Samus for similar reasoning(all the nerf'd characters...)

 

[hack-killer]

It used to bother me at my school's game club how one kid accused my of being cheap with Din's...so I stopped using it...then he got pissed at the lightning kicks...so I stopped using those...then the Dair, so I stopped using that...
HOW CAN I SPAM WHEN HE PICKED OUT FOUR MOVES IN THE SAME 15 MINUTE SITTING? I GUARENTEE THAT MY NEUTRAL A WAS GOING TO BE THE NEXT IN THE SITTING.
But a lot of people used to mistake me for peach but now anytime a Zelda comes up in game club they automatically assume its me, sure, noone else plays her but its nice to feel special, I play Peach, Jigglypuff and Samus for similar reasoning(all the nerf'd characters...)

lol! was he one of those weird ppl who say every move u use that beats em is cheap?
cause i battled a lot of those ppl and personly they just suck XD

 

[leogeo2]

I never pay attention to people screaming "cheap" with any character in any fighting games. If I spam Din's Fire, learn to dodge them. If I catch you in 4 Usmash's, learn to get the hell out of the way so you don't keep falling into them. If you eat a couple of dash attacks, learn to roll or tech the moment you hit the ground then block!

 

[Mega-Japan]

I never pay attention to people screaming "cheap" with any character in any fighting games. If I spam Din's Fire, learn to dodge them. If I catch you in 4 Usmash's, learn to get the hell out of the way so you don't keep falling into them. If you eat a couple of dash attacks, learn to roll or tech the moment you hit the ground then block!

Although I don't agree with spamming, I completely support your statement xD

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I think its really bad once all my friends declare my Zelda as......Broken!!! I think they then fall into this category lol. I don't think I can play them with a straight face anymore just because I wait for an epic scream from them once I hit about 2 or 3 lightning kicks in a row.

 

[DeliciousCake]

I must admit, I came in 8th out of some 50 people in a FFA tourney using only Din's Fire until there was only one person left, and even then I KO'd them with Din's about 75% of the time.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I must admit, I came in 8th out of some 50 people in a FFA tourney using only Din's Fire until there was only one person left, and even then I KO'd them with Din's about 75% of the time.

So it's a good move, why shouldn't we use it?

Why should we limit our game because it violates somebody else's arbitrary honor code?

 

[Rykoshet]

Because frankly if you din's fired on anyone with even a small inkling of competence in a 1 on 1 situation remotely frequently you'd lose your stocks before you finished your fifth one.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Because frankly if you din's fired on anyone with even a small inkling of competence in a 1 on 1 situation remotely frequently you'd lose your stocks before you finished your fifth one.

LOL

That's only who you have no clue about spacing.

I use it all the time in 1 V 1, it's very useful in forcing approaches against non-projectile users, controlling the pace of the approach, and dealing damage of course.

It's got lag, yes, but that's what spacing is for, you don't use it if you're close enough to get punished unless your opponent is committed to an attack.

 

[Rykoshet]

If any "non-projectile user" feels pressured by din's fire in any situation that isnt them landing, they werent good enough to begin with. Din's fire is a snorefest and the only thing it's good for is stuffing wario's bike, because that's as committed as things come.

 

[adumbrodeus]

If any "non-projectile user" feels pressured by din's fire in any situation that isnt them landing, they werent good enough to begin with. Din's fire is a snorefest and the only thing it's good for is stuffing wario's bike, because that's as committed as things come.

You severely underestimate Din's Fire's massive hitbox.

If the Zelda's you've been fighting don't get hits with Din's fire... play better Zeldas.

 

[Rykoshet]

Just give up while youre behind, you don't know what zeldas I play nor do you know how easy the match up is for me. I am by no means an amazing smash player, but din's fire is the JOKE of the projectile world. Massive hitboxes mean nothing when you can just spot dodge the thing and it's over. If they blow it up early to avoid the dodge the hitbox is too small, if they blow it up late... well my shield is still up. It's the equivalent of quick draw, if you use it too much, just give up your stock.

 

[Tyr_03]

Lucas absolutely ***** Din's Fire spamming Zeldas. It's actually really really funny. Definetly not a broken character if you have a clue what you're doing. I honestly don't have a clue what you guys do against this matchup because I haven't come across a single Zelda player who can come close to my Lucas. Anyhow I really don't see how anyone can think Zelda is cheap at all.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Just give up while youre behind, you don't know what zeldas I play nor do you know how easy the match up is for me. I am by no means an amazing smash player, but din's fire is the JOKE of the projectile world. Massive hitboxes mean nothing when you can just spot dodge the thing and it's over. If they blow it up early to avoid the dodge the hitbox is too small, if they blow it up late... well my shield is still up. It's the equivalent of quick draw, if you use it too much, just give up your stock.

Not exploding it too early is a spacing concern, a good Zelda will know when Din's fire is in range.

As for late... vulnerability frames exist in the spot-dodge, once you learn you can exploit it. Even if you hit the shields, Din's fire eats through shields like nobody's business.

Zig-zagging allows you to mix up the timing, making it more unpredictable, so it basically becomes a prediction game. Prediction games where you can't make the game have a negative consequence on the opponent are NOT good for you, so if you're a character without projectiles, you have to approach. Even if you only catch 1/16 Din's Fires, you're at a clear disadvantage, you'll catch 1/16 of however many attacks your opponent throws at you whereas your opponent will catch no attacks whatsoever. Not to mention the risk of getting shieldbroken if you're using spotdodge.


And for the last time, with projectiles, the number of uses doesn't matter for punishment, unless your opponent has an anti-projectile move (reflector, bucket, pk magnet, etc) or a projectile.

If your opponent is Marth and he's on the other end of final destination, you can throw Din's fires at him the entire match, if he stays there, he'll never be able to punish you, ever. However, if he's in range to SH fair, then using Din's Fire even once is asking to be punished.

Quickdraw however, is a melee move (we'll discount using it as transit between two areas outside of the opponent's attack range for the example), if you overuse it as an approach, it's telegraphed enough that your opponent can recognize it and do something about it, like shield and counter, or move forward and shield, or shieldgrab, or use a counter-attack, or spotdodge, or any number of other things. Because, once you use quickdraw as an approach, no matter what use you make of it, YOU'RE IN YOUR OPPONENT'S ATTACK RANGE. Thus, you will be punished if you get predictable.

The moral of the story is, if you're not in your opponent's effective attack range, a move is safe. Period.

There are other considerations about safety such as lag, inflected shieldlag, but this is by far the easiest to recognize.


Overall, Din's Fire is a precise projectile that requires a great deal of practice in order to use properly, not a useless one.

Lucas absolutely ***** Din's Fire spamming Zeldas. It's actually really really funny. Definetly not a broken character if you have a clue what you're doing. I honestly don't have a clue what you guys do against this matchup because I haven't come across a single Zelda player who can come close to my Lucas. Anyhow I really don't see how anyone can think Zelda is cheap at all.

Lol, very true, PK magnet is a nice move against Din's Fire.

In general though, Zelda has to utilize her superior melee range to win and her better defensive game. Neither side can really force an approach.

It's considered a Lucas advantage btw, but Din's fire is fine in the beginning of the match, can't heal 0 damage right?

 

[Rykoshet]

The moral of the story is, if you're not in your opponent's effective attack range, a move is safe. Period.

If you're perfectly fine with throwing din's fires for 7 minutes until the match is over then so be it, but either your patience is gonna die or mine is. Frankly, it'd be a waste of both players times for you to sit there spamming din's fires and no one in their right mind would continue to do so. Furthermore, anyone remotely intelligent would just blast your first stock then just stand out of range until time ran out if you were that vapid. You're obviously not, so give up on the safety of the move and instead consider it from a viability standpoint.

 

[adumbrodeus]

If you're perfectly fine with throwing din's fires for 7 minutes until the match is over then so be it, but either your patience is gonna die or mine is. Frankly, it'd be a waste of both players times for you to sit there spamming din's fires and no one in their right mind would continue to do so. Furthermore, anyone remotely intelligent would just blast your first stock then just stand out of range until time ran out if you were that vapid. You're obviously not, so give up on the safety of the move and instead consider it from a viability standpoint.

Again, 1/16h for a 8 minute match is a fair amount of attacks. And it kills at higher percentages.

Really, I'm perfectly fine with doing it all day, why should I approach? That is, till you hit 400% or some other obscenely high amount.

Just like any good falco player will be fine with lasering all day, or any good DDD player will be fine with throwing waddle-dees all day, etc. Because really what player in their right mind would just continuously take damage if they had no way of repaying the favor, because what happens then? First hit and they're knocked out. When you're at 300% and I'm at 0, approaching suddenly becomes viable. Nobody lets that happen, because it's just idiotic, that's why against a projectile spammer, if you don't have one of your own, you must approach. Zelda is even more fun, because she doesn't even need to approach to kill.



Spamming works, and if you can't counter-spam, you're left with only one option, approach.



Oh, and btw, I'm judging the Zelda you play by the info you've given me about their skills. Only a rather weak Zelda player results in a useless Din's fire spam. So if you're playing people who are useless with Din's Fire, then they're weak Zelda players, it's quite elementary.

 

[leogeo2]

Olimar's Pikmin throw spam must be more annoying than Din's Fire spam. Not to mention Wolf's pistol and maybe Falco's as well... >.>

 

[EnvyDevil]

Man Rykoshet. I don't know exactly what game you're playing or what Zeldas you're fighting. But if anyone can make DF look like a useless move, they have no business using Zelda. It's perfect for forcing your opponent to approach you the way YOU want them to if they have no anti projectile tools. You spot dodge, you still all the way over there waiting to dodge another, you roll into me, just know you're going to get hit before you hit me, and if you're in the air be ready to land where u want you to. If you don't believe me, play a good Zelda with someone like marth or ganon.

 

[Rykoshet]

Man Rykoshet. I don't know exactly what game you're playing or what Zeldas you're fighting. But if anyone can make DF look like a useless move, they have no business using Zelda. It's perfect for forcing your opponent to approach you the way YOU want them to if they have no anti projectile tools. You spot dodge, you still all the way over there waiting to dodge another, you roll into me, just know you're going to get hit before you hit me, and if you're in the air be ready to land where u want you to. If you don't believe me, play a good Zelda with someone like marth or ganon.

For one, I'm an Ike main. Secondly, I'm playing brawl, and thirdly, I play rather competent zeldas. I just don't bother naming names because frankly my point doesnt need to be substantiated by name dropping. Din's fire isnt making me approach on your terms, it's not slowing me down, and it's not doing anything other than making sure I'm not running on autopilot. Hell, the fact that you brought up marth already informs me that the issue is not the zeldas I'm fighting, but rather the close up fighters you are. Marth slides like mad with a running spot dodge, and it puts him back into neutral state. This means you're actually helping marth punish you by using it. The best use of din's fire is not as an approach forcer, the characters who have to approach should and will be doing so anyway (unless they suck at it) and every projectile save fox's beats out DF so that's not what it's gonna be used for. It's more, at best, a mid-range chase stuffer and an air dodge manipulator...

but...

1) I don't roll often, especially to dodge an easy projectile.
and
2) I don't usually try to land inside din's fire if I'm avoiding it since I know if I try ill eat a hyphen smash or a grab.

If anything you're creating more distance from me in a situation where you would want to capitalize, but you telegraph. Throw them in the obvious situations, so be it, but don't act like it's some actual danger.

 

[Ztarfish]

Just listen to Ryko, he's right.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

There is very little depth to Din's Fire usage. Maybe, if there were an option to delay the explosion as was the natural behavior of Din's Fire in Melee, we'd be much better off with Din's pressure. However, that's not the case. Din's Fire is stupidly easy to deal with and is not good for much.

 

[hack-killer]

Lucas absolutely ***** Din's Fire spamming Zeldas. It's actually really really funny. Definetly not a broken character if you have a clue what you're doing. I honestly don't have a clue what you guys do against this matchup because I haven't come across a single Zelda player who can come close to my Lucas. Anyhow I really don't see how anyone can think Zelda is cheap at all.

zelda can beat lucas!

 

[Iron Thorn]

zelda can beat lucas!

If the Zelda player is very skilled, the Lucas player is very drunk, or both, then yes. But under normal circumstances it's a rough fight.

 

[adumbrodeus]

If the Zelda player is very skilled, the Lucas player is very drunk, or both, then yes. But under normal circumstances it's a rough fight.

It's not that bad, 6:4 approximately. Considerable, but not the end of the world.

But the opponent being drunk always helps...


Lol at smash as a drinking game.

 

[hack-killer]

If the Zelda player is very skilled, the Lucas player is very drunk, or both, then yes. But under normal circumstances it's a rough fight.

who the heck would fight a drunk person?! O.o
could the drunk even hold his controller right?

 

[adumbrodeus]

who the heck would fight a drunk person?! O.o
could the drunk even hold his controller right?

Lol, actually don't underestimate drunk guys.

I contributed to a major crewbattle victory when I was completely drunk (yeah, I contributed a lot to the advantage, I made sure by double-checking with my crew the next day). Coming back from a party to find that your crew decided to set up a crew battle is an interesting expirience in general.

It was a college dorm btw, since my entire crew lives/hangs in the same impromptu crew battles are easy to pull off, even at like 4 am.

 

[Rykoshet]

Some people who have bad issues with hesitation or overthinking and restricting themselves by doing so actually do somewhat better drunk.

 

[S2]

I've played some crazy drunk players at Melee. There was one player I knew who couldn't beat me sober, but I could not predict anything she was going to do when she was wasted. Of course, she'd go back and forth from doing ridiculously good things to killing herself. Consistency is not always in the hands of the drunk.


As for Din's, I wouldn't totally discount it. It's excellent for changing your spacing if you use it in the air and have very good control of casting it off of shorthops to get sent in different horizontal directions/speeds. That combined with how you aim it gives Zelda a few more options. There are some characters Din's simply isn't good against, but it's still useful. Most of the time it's expected that an opponent will dodge it. But it keeps pressure on, is good for tech chasing while moving Zelda forward/backward, etc.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I've played some crazy drunk players at Melee. There was one player I knew who couldn't beat me sober, but I could not predict anything she was going to do when she was wasted. Of course, she'd go back and forth from doing ridiculously good things to killing herself. Consistency is not always in the hands of the drunk.

Well, again depends on the drunk...

I personally, played no different then when I'm sober. Don't ask me how I still had the presence of mind to space in terms of pixels, but I did somehow and my mindgames didn't suffer at all.

Caulk it up as a victory of willpower over alcohol I guess.