Yoshi Stage Discussion

[DunnoBro]

Couldn't find any threads on this, I think it's pretty important.

I think Lylat cruise is amazing for Yoshi.

With the new trajectory on the eggs, the platforms don't get in the way that often. Only during short hop tosses while under the outer platforms trying to hit under the middle one. However, short hopping them closer to the ledge not only works for this, is generally safer, but also actually slides through the middle platform like this in a very deceiving way.

Speaking of the platforms, they provide some other far more severe benefits.

Yoshi's Usmash covers the bottom of each one completely. And then some.

Often, after an egglay they will land on one of these lower platforms and be in a prime position for one of these usmashes.

This also applies to grab air releases.

And speaking of egglay, it's extremely easy to get here. People just sit on those ledges in their shields, and yoshi's tongue covers the entire thing. They're also even lower than bf's low platforms so the full hop consistently gets short characters without any need for proper timing or waiting before hitting be. Also easier to avoid landing on the smaller platforms to avoid being punished.

And as far as recoveries go getting screwed by the ledge, his is pretty forgiving about it unless you cheese way hard and don't egg toss the right way soon enough after you notice.

The slants also make his down smash and tilt go at a nice edgeguarding angle.

Kongo jungle seems like yoshi's worst stage.

The platforms on the side deny him the ability to snap to the ledge for easy and safe returns to the ground since they extend over the ledge.

They're also so high, only uair threatens an opponent on it unless you double jump. Meaning you can't really follow up with anything then.

Those moving platforms make your egg game really inconsistent and unreliable. And there's only so much space to land and only like 2 inches of solid ground to ground pound onto, that floaty yoshi is really easy to read.

It's overall not that bad but if there's a bad yoshi stage I think that'd be it.

What are your guys thoughts?

 

[ATH_]

I actually really like this idea of talking about solid stages. Lylat is good, but it's edges worry me. I've found myself Up+Bing and scraping against the roof rather than grabbing the ledge, then having to use my double jump just to hit the ledge.

Kongo Jungle is one of Yoshi's worst? I can see the reasoning, however, the center platforms are REALLY good for Yoshi. All of your aerials work really well with them as they come lower, and it's funny how many times UpThrowing an opponent onto them will manipulate them into purposefully landing on them. The side platforms are a both in some cases though.

Smashville I like a lot with Yoshi, when that platform's on your side, it's a solid option for recovery versus grabbing the ledge, as you can get an egg out and even DownB to ensure safety from a FAir or UpAir.

 

[chipndip]

Just go to Final Destination. Yoshi thrives there because there's nothing getting in the way of his Egg Throw or Yoshi Bomb, and there's nothing throwing off his timing or spacing when making reads or maneuvers. Platforms are gonna help the opponent, not Yoshi himself. He can do everything he wants to do without them.

 

[ATH_]

Just go to Final Destination. Yoshi thrives there because there's nothing getting in the way of his Egg Throw or Yoshi Bomb, and there's nothing throwing off his timing or spacing when making reads or maneuvers. Platforms are gonna help the opponent, not Yoshi himself. He can do everything he wants to do without them.

I personally disagree with part of this. Yes, FD has nothing to get in the way, but Lylat is definitely our best stage. The stage's platforms won't get in the way because of the layout, and a lot of characters have a struggle on recovering on Lylat due to there being no sticking or guiding on the bottom of the stage (iow characters cannot walljump and fox can't just go Up and expect to grab the ledge). This puts Yoshi at a better advantage against charcters like Shulk, Fox (especially), Lucario, and other characters with similar recovery methods. Even the Mario bros.
In a matchup against something like Villager, FD is possibly better, however, it's a bit hard for yoshi to approach without platforms, because you run into a lot of 50/50s. Not to mention, some characters also appreciate FD just as much as Yoshi could.

 

[chipndip]

I personally disagree with part of this. Yes, FD has nothing to get in the way, but Lylat is definitely our best stage. The stage's platforms won't get in the way because of the layout, and a lot of characters have a struggle on recovering on Lylat due to there being no sticking or guiding on the bottom of the stage (iow characters cannot walljump and fox can't just go Up and expect to grab the ledge). This puts Yoshi at a better advantage against charcters like Shulk, Fox (especially), Lucario, and other characters with similar recovery methods. Even the Mario bros.
In a matchup against something like Villager, FD is possibly better, however, it's a bit hard for yoshi to approach without platforms, because you run into a lot of 50/50s. Not to mention, some characters also appreciate FD just as much as Yoshi could.

ANY platform gets in the way, though. If you try to shield break or zone, and they camp under a platform, that's TWO of Yoshi's options you can't use anymore, and we already have a lack-luster grab. Yoshi already beats the Mario bros, but Mario more than Luigi (not too sure on that match-up due to no good Luigi users...). You can very easily get momentum with Yoshi if you master crossing up and making good d-air reads, but it's much easier to do all those types of things when their elevation is a constant.

Also, fishing for f-air spikes on stage isn't gonna work out if you're tilted higher than the opponent. Not as well, anyway. Yoshi's a char of commitments and reads. It's hard to tell what's coming when there's blindfolds in the way and the book keep changing.

 

[Boshi Kafka]

Because Yoshi doesn't rely on setups as much, I've been enjoying taking characters like Diddy Kong and ROB to Delfino. FD lets projectile characters just shoot them forward at you, whereas Delfino forces them to take odd angles and move around.

 

[Shadow_I)ragoon]

Dont you think kongo is good for yoshi? I like it a lot actually coming from down the stages with uair, high platforms to go to for recovery, the middle platforms for setups and the barrel in case for low recovery but yea dont count too much on that one. Another thing of kongo snappy ledges from anywhere makes some interesting new ways to recover low with yoshi. But hey thats my 2 cent never been to a tournament and just getting into competitive play so take my opinion for what it is.

 

[Lukingordex]

platforms are good for yoshi in this game, just saying

 

[Crustyball]

Battle Field seems to benefit Yoshi in my opinion. You can use the platforms as cover from above, short hopped Bairs or Uairs can hit if they are on the lower platforms as well as Usmashes. Egg throw is a great option when grounded, especially if you do them straight up through a platflorm which can be follewed up with an aerial. Ledge drop Dairs seem to be efficient as well.

 

[Meerkat]

Duck Hunt is pretty iffy with the ducks stopping eggs. I prefer staying away from there if possible. Changing stages like Delfino Plaza and Skyloft seem to favor Yoshi more as he can adapt more quickly than other characters to different terrain.

 

[EsYosh]

I agree with Lylat Cruise being the best. It also has the advantage that the slight tilting of the stage almost always guarantees a solid hit with BAir with a lot of damage and good spacing. On flat stages it has a tendency of going over your opponent right?
But I believe Yoshi is pretty good at most stages, if I had to say any bad stage it would possibly be Duck Hunt or Castle Siege.

 

[Wingz003]

Yoshi stage op mang

 

[HoS_Beast]

To be honest. I think Halberd is one of our better maps. The roof is really low, so our up smash and up air both kill at really low percent.(making a list soon)
also the platform is close to the ground, so our up smash hits from the ground.

The fact that the platform is long and unbroken kind of messes up some of our eggthrow angles,
but other than that its a pretty solid stage.

 

[HoboJoe]

With the recent patch to Lylat, I think that's definitely our best stage. Halberd is good too, but we don't rely on kills off the top as much as many other characters, I say go halberd based on matchup. I think Duck Hunt is our worst stage, it's narrow, has a really high ceiling, and the ducks interfere with egg toss far too often. In tournament play, for me, Duck Hunt is always an auto-ban.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Not even gonna lie, I think the patch to lylat makes it slightly worse lol. Yoshi was the only character i use who was never gimped by the ledge. I would take people there just for the jank factor.

Not that it's a bad stage or anything but people ****ing up on that corner was just one more thing that was in our favor.

 

[Delta-cod]

Celes understands the jank. I approve.

Also, aren't most of our kills still vertical? Down B is off the top, Usmash and Uair are off the top. We've got Nair/Fair/Fsmash, but Nair doesn't kill anymore, Fair is okayyyyyyyy I guess, and Fsmash doesn't really have a setup and is slow. Doesn't this make ceiling height an important factor for us?

 

[HoS_Beast]

Celes understands the jank. I approve.

Also, aren't most of our kills still vertical? Down B is off the top, Usmash and Uair are off the top. We've got Nair/Fair/Fsmash, but Nair doesn't kill anymore, Fair is okayyyyyyyy I guess, and Fsmash doesn't really have a setup and is slow. Doesn't this make ceiling height an important factor for us?

yeh, its pretty much what i stated. Halberd has one of the lowest ceilings(although i don't care to check right now. i am super tired) It also doesn't have super much interuption to our play. the platform is pretty good and there are few transitions.

I am currently doing a huge lit of knockout percentages on this forum, if you guys want to see the kill percentages. i am still working on it and i am almost 100% sure it will take a bunch of time.

 

[Delta-cod]

I was referring to HoboJoe's statement, " but we don't rely on kills off the top as much as many other characters", which I think is false, because most of our goto kill options are vertical.

 

[HoS_Beast]

yeh, sorry for not making my statement clear. I meant to say that i agree.

 

[Sinister Slush]

While the ledge was annoying, and I currently have no idea if they fixed this other issue either.
But the main problem with lylat and people wanting to move it to CP in favor of duck hunt or even plain remove it like halberd possibly was that the bottom platform isn't actually one big connected platform, it's 3 separated platforms with the two engines splitting them apart.

Which is why air tumbles and cancelled moves happen.

 

[HoS_Beast]

I am quite misspleased that halberd is not played as much. its a superb stage and probably one of my favorites. I have often brought people there if i felt smashville was disfavorable.

 

[Pajon]

Our worst starter in many match-ups is Battlefield. While our best for many match-ups is Town and City. The thing to note is that yoshi isn't the best on any starter so look to take your opponent to the stage where you have the advantage. Duckhunt is a stage you should avoid with yoshi. Nothing about the stage favors us as compared to other characters. I've been counter-picked here and lost plenty of times to where I now ban it despite actually liking the stage. I still don't understand why Kongo Jungle is illegal in most of the current tournament rule sets. It is a very good yoshi stage.

 

[Delta-cod]

Our worst starter in many match-ups is Battlefield. While our best for many match-ups is Town and City. The thing to note is that yoshi isn't the best on any starter so look to take your opponent to the stage where you have the advantage. Duckhunt is a stage you should avoid with yoshi. Nothing about the stage favors us as compared to other characters. I've been counter-picked here and lost plenty of times to where I now ban it despite actually liking the stage. I still don't understand why Kongo Jungle is illegal in most of the current tournament rule sets. It is a very good yoshi stage.

Why are Battlefield and Duckhunt so bad for us? What makes T&C so good?

 

[ReturningFall]

Here we go again

I'm beginning to conclude picking stages for Yoshi is like discussing everything for Yoshi. It depends more on what the opponent doesn't want than what we do want. We're just too all-around for any hard and fast rules. It doesn't help the Yoshi board doesn't all play in any one way.

That said, I'm slightly interested in hearing the reasoning for Town and Country. Does the opinion on Battlefield differ from what was already said?

 

[Pajon]

Town and City is great for us because the platforms are made for Yoshi. They are high to where other characters can't use them as effectively as we can. The platforms don't really mess with our egg camping and make landing in general very easy for us. We jump high enough to punish character that need to land there while most the cast can't do the same to us. Also Low ceiling is always good for us. No stage is truly bad for us. But you gotta look at it in retrospect to the rest of the cast.

Duckhunt brings us the most disadvantages in comparison to the rest of the stages and not to mention how many characters use the stage better than us. (ducks to block our eggs is just one thing)

Battlefield is by no means a bad stage for Yoshi. We just have the more disadvantageous match-ups on that stage as compared to the other starters.

Knowing which characters you beat where is a very good thing to know for starters. But counterpicks don't matter as much because people can switch to a character that outperforms you there. Which is why Duckhunt in general is a good ban for us. Although banning whatever character you just beat best's stage is usually a better ban.

 

[Yikarur]

hi guys; now that we collected enough experience I really want to discuss about stages.
I love stages, Tournaments are better in my opinion the more (viable) stages are available.
I think Yoshi is one of the characters that can adjust to many different kind of stages with ease.
The stages I like to play with Yoshi the most are Smashville and Town & City. The moving plattforms really help to get back on stage because of our huge double jump.
The transcendent stages like Halberd, Delfino and Wuhu Island are also very good for Yoshi imo. But I rarely try to counterpick Delfino or Halberd because of the inherent variance the stage brings with you ; you don't really want to be killed way under kill% "randomly" and Yoshi is profiting from living long and People always ban Wuhu Island agaist me.
My dislike stage is battlefield. It feels like you cannot approach on that stage at all. Yoshi hasn't really got approach tools and the stage is limiting that even more. I think the Yoshi : Sheik MU is unwinnable on this stage if the Sheik plays really campy. If you don't play an opponent that forces you to approach then Battlefield is fine.

Any disagreeing experience? I really need to discuss about stages more because when I'm about to ban and about to pick I've rarely had a definite answer so far and just pick what I want at that moment. But I don't have put any real thought into it, because I feel like I'm fine on any stage.

 

[Regralht]

I feel like Battlefield opens up Yoshi's punish game (sharking under a platform is amazingly good), and gives him some room to run away for a bit when he needs to land. Egg Toss not being as useful there can be a bit annoying, but that isn't a move that should be heavily relied on anyways (super punishable if they read you, or react while close). Sheik can't easily kill me there (tipper Usmash can be a bit scary...) and her horizontal pressure becomes a tad bit less important. I haven't really fought enough Sheiks there to make a conclusion though.

Yeah, Smashville and T&C are definitely pretty good. I avoid that stage sometimes though, if I'm fighting a character like Falcon or Sheik (I don't want to die early off the side, and edge guarding them is a little harder there).

I definitely avoid Delfino and Halberd for the same reasons you stated (losing a stock at 40% is no fun ;-; although I can reasonably do the same back).

FD seems pretty good against characters that are slow / have crappy approach options. You can space around them easily, and punish whatever they decide to do with Egg Toss. It just takes a little longer to kill em there, what with the stage being pretty big.

Wuhu isn't legal where I am. I've maybe only played that stage five times.

Yeah there aren't really any stages that Yoshi seems to do terrible on. I just try to pick a stage that I know my opponent's character is bad on, compared to picking a stage that helps Yoshi's strengths and covers his weaknesses a bit.

 

[Lukingordex]

I love Kongo Jungle 64 and Lylat Cruise, seriously, these stages are very good for Yoshi. Here your pressure with tilts is a lot harder and yoshi's advantaged state and punish game becomes a lot more potent, and his neutral game is improved due to the platform format in both stages.

I'm also starting to like Castle Siege for Yoshi, still not sure though, so take it as a grain of salt.

For the other stages, it really depends on the match up.

Against Ness for example, which has a very bad neutral game, I would prefer stages without platforms. But against someone like Sheik who as needles I would like a platform to be able to breathe.

Also Duck Hunt is garbage how can people want it as a starter instead of lylat? lol

 

[Fuerzo]

It seems to be the 64 version rather than the bigger Melee version, but it still has both high ceilings and edgeguarding potential. I assume it will be either a legal or CP stage, so it might not be a good one for Yoshi. Still really excited to see it returning, though.

EDIT: Wow, this might actually be a really good stage for Yoshi. Love the platform layout and blast zones.

 

[Stigmata]

I like to play a really heavily aggressive Yoshi with less eggs than most. I definitely could use more eggs, but since I don't use them as much, I love a tight stage like BF where I'm always on top of my opponent. I love when they can't get away from the strings and chasedowns. Going to FD just keeps the game in neutral too much, and while Yoshi has good neutral, I'd rather be in a position to always be setting up juggles and applying pressure than trying to break neutral. If I'm feeling extra homo, I like Duck Hunt lol. It's literally impossible for most characters to chase him down there after all, and once he gets a lead, he can just run away and throw eggs and fair/nair space the whole rest of the game. I like Delfino the best for him because it provides unlimited movement, and I think he gains from the jank as much as anyone. Plus, if I don't feel like approaching, I'll just drop down and wait for the transition. I'm also digging Dreamland 64 for him. Same reasons as BF, but with a lower curling for quicker Usmash kills.

 

[noft]

Alright i was wondering if there was anymore updatesto be added here. Maybe a list of yoshis best stages? and worst stages/ Idk if there are any posts that discuss this so im just asking.

 

[AaronSMASH]

I have nothing but problems on battlefield. I like to be aggressive and make the approach with egg throw FF fair and jabs after landing it tends to be way to fast for them to punish.

How should I be playing on battlefield?

 

[noft]

I have nothing but problems on battlefield. I like to be aggressive and make the approach with egg throw FF fair and jabs after landing it tends to be way to fast for them to punish.

How should I be playing on battlefield?

even when u do that ur open to shield grab, thats the only issue im having trying to go in with that atm

 

[Fuerzo]

Anyone else really enjoy Lylat Cruise? I had a pretty crazy set with a Lucario on Anther's earlier today--won a somewhat close Game 1 on (what else) Smashville, got 3-stocked in Game 2 on FD, and then 2-stocked him in Game 3 on Lylat. I feel like the platform layout and tilting is great for both eggs and aerials.

 

[Yikarur]

Lylat Cruise is really really good for Yoshi. You can manipulate your autocancels a lot (full hop dair AC on plattforms, SH Bair AC) and being under the opponent angle wise is really helping the defensive game with egg tosses. We're mostly not screwed by the moving edge. I'm just missing the ground pound slide cancel

 

[Delta-cod]

I love Lylat just because other people hate it. And I like seeing people suffer on "jank" stages.

My advice to everyone is to learn all the stages really well, love them all, then CP people to the most hated stage possible. It's great for throwing people off.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Especially if you do your research and know what stage your opponent hates the most. You can CP characters all you want but theres nothing like CPing people. Even if the only advantage you can get on them is that they hate the music on the stage. Hum along

 

[Delta-cod]

In the same vein, I also recommend that you never agree to the whole "Wanna just start on Smashville/BF/XYZ" question when people ask before stage striking. Strike anyways, maybe you'll end up somewhere else. Really bad character + stage MUs notwithstanding, I ALWAYS strike the stage they initially suggested first. People get real comfortable with starting on a certain stage. Don't let them be comfortable!

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Oh and also there is stage jank on Omegas too. The Omega stages are NOT all the same. iirc they patched it, but Omega Lylat was my favorite stage because it retained the janky ledge stuff. But my new favorite Omega against Wall jump characters is Omega Kalos. You get the comfort of a pillar style FD but no one can take advantage of the wall to wall jump/cling. Seriously not all Omegas are created equal even if they are the same style of stage.

ANd be sure to learn battlefield. For some reason despite in my opinion being the most basic stage ever a lot of people don't seem to like it much. The top platform gives me life

 

[verbatim]

Does anyone have any experience with the actual differences between Omega stages and FD. While learning the muscle memory for Yoshi's kill confirms in the lab, I noticed that every time I tried to stage spike cpu Sheik with bair the stage spike sent them flying up in a way that they could recover. Does anyone have any particular knowledge about Yoshi's stage spikes and their angles on the various legal stages + Omega's.