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Q&A "Worthy Opponents Indeed!" - Match-up Q&A Thread

Funkermonster

The Clown
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Funkermonster
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How 2 fight: :4wario2::4olimar::4zss::4rob::4mario::4link::4samus:

These guys take a dump on me when I play against them, or are just frustrating (Olimar and Mario mostly). I also lost 3 times in a row to a :4zelda: yesterday at a smashfest before making a comeback, I barely use Arcfire at all n that MU because of her reflector...
 

Demonstormkill

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
116
Location
London, ON.
3DS FC
3926-6919-7589
How 2 fight: :4wario2::4olimar::4zss::4rob::4mario::4link::4samus:

These guys take a dump on me when I play against them, or are just frustrating (Olimar and Mario mostly). I also lost 3 times in a row to a :4zelda: yesterday at a smashfest before making a comeback, I barely use Arcfire at all n that MU because of her reflector...
:4wario: Isn't particularly tough... you outrange and outdamage him. Just space your aerials well. If he stays grounded keep him out with Arcfire.

:4olimar: Again fighting in the air is good, when grounded keep moving, mix retreat with occasional approach. He likes mid range.

:4zss: Dunno. Bad ones use down-B a lot, just block and punish with dash attack or whatever or u-air them out of it.

:4rob: Is pretty annoying with his projectiles. Avoid them and you should win. He's not very good at killing, just watch out for dthrow. He's easy to spike. I got a hilarious dair spike -> elwind spike on one once.

:4mario: Has 2 main super aggressive approaches. The first is the cross up roll behind you. The second is where they approach with a fireball and often grab if you shield it. If you shut these two down the pace slows down and you can play your game. The roll is easy enough if you're aware of it. The fireball approach is more challenging. You're already at a disadvantage once the fireball is getting close, so you just want to do whatever you can to avoid taking damage (back up, jump or roll, SH nair, mix it up). What you want to do is discourage the fireball approach by catching mario with Fair as he jumps up to shoot one. At low %s don't forget to follow up.

:4link: You have to play fairly reactively. Don't let him abuse the bow, threaten to jump in with an aerial or arcfire. He out-ranges us on the ground and has surprisingly lagless aerials. When played aggressively with lots of bombs and sh aerials, I've had success by fully abusing shield. Keep in mind his grab is risky to use. When not played very well he's easy to gimp, but it's harder when they recover with projectiles. Arcfire's good, trap his landing as much as possible. He can kill early with utilt or ftilt, and jab1 -> utilt is a scary kill setup once you're around 100%.

:4samus: I hear Raziek is about to give us the goods on Samus -- or at least he said he was going to back on thursday. From my side, giving Samus a full charge is bad, even if you get thoron. That said, at game start you're probably charging thoron because it's not worth shutting down 1/3 of her full charge by rushing her down. She also kind of decides whether you get thoron since she can spam small charge shots. If you do get thoron, it means no missiles for her. You beat her up close because she has a worse grab. Stand nearby where you threaten dash/rollcancel grab, sh Fair and arcfire. If she throws out tilts, hit her. It's just a bad spot for her and she can't really get away. Just perfect shield all her projectiles, and watch out for spikes. Not saying it's easy, but that's the gameplan.
 
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Teve31

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
14
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Kentucky
NNID
teve31
hey everyone! I'm in need of some serious help in a yoshi match. i cant get past yoshi no matter what. it seems like every yoshi i run into spams up b not allowing me to charge my thunder and then when i try to go in, yoshi backs up and either throws more eggs or does a dair. the eggs don't allow me to get my fire in either because of how long it takes to cast. please help me, its becoming annoying losing to most if not all yoshi.
 

Laggalot101

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 23, 2014
Messages
122
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Netherlands
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:4olimar: Again fighting in the air is good, when grounded keep moving, mix retreat with occasional approach. He likes mid range.
I find that the difficulty with Olimar is that he's so good at camping and locking you out. You can't shield his pikmin throws. They just latch on to you and start to passively deal damage, and Robin has no good way of getting them off quickly. All your projectiles barring Thoron are next to useless, because those freaking Pikmin block everytying. Then there's also that Olimar is small. He's got little reason to jump when he's close to you (so really only to extend distance of thrown Pikmin) as he's so difficult to hit when plainly on the ground, where he's got all his defensive options at his disposal. There's also the rather long range of his Forward Smash (at least it feels very long) and my god, Yellow Pikmin are a pain to deal with, because your Levin Sword does nothing to them. Yellow Pikmin just go straight through your levin attacks. One of the few cases where Bronze Sword has a significant use over the Levin Sword, I believe.

For that matter I am curious to hear some more detailed information on this match-up from people who hopefully know it better than me, as I have a fair bit of trouble with Olimar.
 

Catoust

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 16, 2015
Messages
5
Not sure if anybody mentioned it yet, but Down Smash seems to be particularly effective against Little mac. Provided that they don't realize the timing. Charging up to at least Arcthunder whenever you have the time for it is a good idea, but don't be afraid to throw out a simple thunder if you don't have the time.

Because he's so fast(and can combo dash attack) you need to create your own "counter" via shielding and tilts. Punish Edge-guarding by dropping down, going back with a jump, Uair and get back up with Elwind. Don't try to Carpet Bomb, LM's Uspecial can punish pretty easily.

On that note, maybe try to fall one way then fast fall the other if they try to time that attack when you attempt to land?

Tilt attacks will be your best freind, don't be afraid to roll, master pivot grab and Nosferatu.
 

Demonstormkill

Smash Apprentice
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Apr 22, 2008
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116
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London, ON.
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I find that the difficulty with Olimar is that he's so good at camping and locking you out. You can't shield his pikmin throws. They just latch on to you and start to passively deal damage, and Robin has no good way of getting them off quickly. All your projectiles barring Thoron are next to useless, because those freaking Pikmin block everytying. Then there's also that Olimar is small. He's got little reason to jump when he's close to you (so really only to extend distance of thrown Pikmin) as he's so difficult to hit when plainly on the ground, where he's got all his defensive options at his disposal. There's also the rather long range of his Forward Smash (at least it feels very long) and my god, Yellow Pikmin are a pain to deal with, because your Levin Sword does nothing to them. Yellow Pikmin just go straight through your levin attacks. One of the few cases where Bronze Sword has a significant use over the Levin Sword, I believe.

For that matter I am curious to hear some more detailed information on this match-up from people who hopefully know it better than me, as I have a fair bit of trouble with Olimar.
By no means have I got a ton of experience in the matchup, but I suggest you consider my advice. The idea I was trying to get across is that you can mix up your spacing. If you're too far from him he can't hit you with pikmin and you can charge thunder. If you're in close you can bat away pikmin with the bronze sword (ftilt, jab, nair), and you should be looking for chances to dthrow so you can take the fight off the ground. The main difference between olimar and other matchups is that you have to take the initiative in the fight. Reactive play simply loses. Threaten him with all kinds of stuff. Hopefully you can catch him here and there either by charging thunder when he doesn't expect it or hitting him when he expects a retreat.

Projectiles besides thoron are still useful, you just need favourable situations for them. The thing is that although olimar is theoretically very safe when he stands a mid-range distance from you, and there's no clear option to take advantage of that position, he relies heavily on that idea. Unless he has good mix-up ideas he becomes predictable and can't respond on reaction to all of your approach options. You have to choose unsafe options, you have to press aggressively. Have you tried this kind of an approach? What problems did you encounter?
 

Laggalot101

Smash Apprentice
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Netherlands
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By no means have I got a ton of experience in the matchup, but I suggest you consider my advice. The idea I was trying to get across is that you can mix up your spacing. If you're too far from him he can't hit you with pikmin and you can charge thunder. If you're in close you can bat away pikmin with the bronze sword (ftilt, jab, nair), and you should be looking for chances to dthrow so you can take the fight off the ground. The main difference between olimar and other matchups is that you have to take the initiative in the fight. Reactive play simply loses. Threaten him with all kinds of stuff. Hopefully you can catch him here and there either by charging thunder when he doesn't expect it or hitting him when he expects a retreat.

Projectiles besides thoron are still useful, you just need favourable situations for them. The thing is that although olimar is theoretically very safe when he stands a mid-range distance from you, and there's no clear option to take advantage of that position, he relies heavily on that idea. Unless he has good mix-up ideas he becomes predictable and can't respond on reaction to all of your approach options. You have to choose unsafe options, you have to press aggressively. Have you tried this kind of an approach? What problems did you encounter?
All my attempts at throwing out projectiles not called Thoron typically got thwarted by side-B'd Pikmin. I get that you can deflect thrown Pikmin with an attack, but I don't think Robin's attacks are fast enough for it, and the timing is kind of difficult, especially since it differs between type and wether or Olimar's positioning. Usually when I tried to approach, I just got shielded, thrown and followed up into some other kind of move that I don't remember (I vaguely recall that Olimar's D-throw combo's...?). Mind, I may have very well been frustrated that time, though I probably don't attempt grabs enough regardless. That might have made a difference. The down-throw against Olimar to get him off the ground is an idea, for that matter; something I should perhaps try out next time.

Another mistake I'm now thinking I might have made is handling the pikmin. I don't know if I should just run through them (provided there's no purple involved) and when they do latch on, if I should simply press the attack or if I should bother to remove the Pikmin?

...

Because he's so fast(and can combo dash attack) you need to create your own "counter" via shielding and tilts. Punish Edge-guarding by dropping down, going back with a jump, Uair and get back up with Elwind. Don't try to Carpet Bomb, LM's Uspecial can punish pretty easily.

On that note, maybe try to fall one way then fast fall the other if they try to time that attack when you attempt to land?
...
Yeah, I use (Levin) Uair to cover my recovery to the stage often, not just against Mac. You must be sure to space it correctly, though, because if you go too high and get hit by Mac's Down-Smash, that's your stock. Horizontal knockback is not nice in this situation.

What in the world do you mean by a Carpet Bomb??? I am sincerely confused.

Also not sure what you mean by the other sentence I've just quoted. You are talking about a situation where you try to recover high, no?
 
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TheHypnotoad

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
Messages
615
So I've discovered something kind of unsettling about Robin's matchups. I've discovered that there are 4 characters who completely shut down Robin.

:4diddy:, :4sheik:, :4sonic:, and :4fox:

Notice a pattern here?

That's right, these are all considered to be top-tier characters, and have been used often in tournaments. Robin does well against large, slow characters, such as Donkey Kong and Ganondorf, but fast, small characters eat Robin for breakfast. And the fast, small characters tend to be the ones that are placed high in the tier list and get used at tourneys. The implications of this is that Robin will barely see any tournament use. Robin gets completely destroyed by all of the common tournament characters.
 

Catoust

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 16, 2015
Messages
5
What in the world do you mean by a Carpet Bomb??? I am sincerely confused.

Also not sure what you mean by the other sentence I've just quoted. You are talking about a situation where you try to recover high, no?
Elwind as an Attack for when you're out of their attack range. If it hits, you're safe, if not then you'll be screwed.

And What I meant by that is to try and change direction. I read that somewhere; to confuse enemies? slowly fall one way then fast-fall the other.
 

AbsoluteZer0Nova

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 31, 2015
Messages
28
The Robin vs Ness MU for me was hard at first, but I started getting the hang of it and I notice that Thunder and Elthunder are the best moves to use against Ness in playing a keep away game, while a slow moving Arcthunder and a upcoming Thoron will just be easily absorbed. It also helps using Nair just so you can get Ness out of your personal space and nonetheless getting him off stage while using Elwind to spike him knowing how vulnerable he can be with his recovery (same applies to Elthunder).
 

Laggalot101

Smash Apprentice
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The Robin vs Ness MU for me was hard at first, but I started getting the hang of it and I notice that Thunder and Elthunder are the best moves to use against Ness in playing a keep away game, while a slow moving Arcthunder and a upcoming Thoron will just be easily absorbed. It also helps using Nair just so you can get Ness out of your personal space and nonetheless getting him off stage while using Elwind to spike him knowing how vulnerable he can be with his recovery (same applies to Elthunder).
Elthunder doesn't exactly travel quickly, though. Moreover, because Elthunder is a single hit, if its absorbed then Ness heals more than from Arcthunder and Thoron, which hit multiple times (seriously, Thoron heals him for like 2% or something). Mind, if it works for you, by all means, do continue. I'm just not quite convinced yet.

By the way, if Ness connects with anything after blasting himself with PK Thunder, his recovery distance is cut quite a bit. This includes projectiles. As such, you could make him connect with an Elwind as this happens, and if he isn't close enough to the stage, he'll simply plummet down to the blast zone, not even requiring a spike. So that's another option sometimes. I think I have got KO's this way before. Of course, if Ness is right near the ledge, this doesn't work...
 
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Silverfox117

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
91
Robins nair is the best and safest option to gimp ness of stage. At least in my opinion.
 
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SoBMudkip

Smash Apprentice
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Dec 13, 2014
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By no means have I got a ton of experience in the matchup, but I suggest you consider my advice. The idea I was trying to get across is that you can mix up your spacing. If you're too far from him he can't hit you with pikmin and you can charge thunder. If you're in close you can bat away pikmin with the bronze sword (ftilt, jab, nair), and you should be looking for chances to dthrow so you can take the fight off the ground. The main difference between olimar and other matchups is that you have to take the initiative in the fight. Reactive play simply loses. Threaten him with all kinds of stuff. Hopefully you can catch him here and there either by charging thunder when he doesn't expect it or hitting him when he expects a retreat.

Projectiles besides thoron are still useful, you just need favourable situations for them. The thing is that although olimar is theoretically very safe when he stands a mid-range distance from you, and there's no clear option to take advantage of that position, he relies heavily on that idea. Unless he has good mix-up ideas he becomes predictable and can't respond on reaction to all of your approach options. You have to choose unsafe options, you have to press aggressively. Have you tried this kind of an approach? What problems did you encounter?
I think the problem vs. olimar isn't really on the approach. I feel like olimar has so many guaranteed hits off grabs he can rack up damage ridiculously quickly. Coupled with the latching pikmin you can go 0-100 real quick. So they key here is not to be grabbed??
 

Silverfox117

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
91
I think the problem vs. olimar isn't really on the approach. I feel like olimar has so many guaranteed hits off grabs he can rack up damage ridiculously quickly. Coupled with the latching pikmin you can go 0-100 real quick. So they key here is not to be grabbed??
I played a few good Olimars, and one really good one in a tourney. All I can say is play patiently, and avoid damage as much as you can. You can bat away the pickmin with tilts. Just wait for an opening. With my matches it was just literally just a projectile battle, and me using Arcfire to keep him out of his comfort zone. Thoron punishes plucking for more pickmin really nice. What I do is kill his pickmin and then Thoron him (just be careful if he ducks). Punish him enough for plucking pickmin, and you won the game at that point. This is just my opinion tho.
 

SoBMudkip

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I played a few good Olimars, and one really good one in a tourney. All I can say is play patiently, and avoid damage as much as you can. You can bat away the pickmin with tilts. Just wait for an opening. With my matches it was just literally just a projectile battle, and me using Arcfire to keep him out of his comfort zone. Thoron punishes plucking for more pickmin really nice. What I do is kill his pickmin and then Thoron him (just be careful if he ducks). Punish him enough for plucking pickmin, and you won the game at that point. This is just my opinion tho.
So basically camp the whole game? That may work and I will try that this sunday at a tournament. How should I deal with an aggressive Olimar?
 

MajorasMask9

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 1, 2015
Messages
8
So, quick question about Robin vs Sonic. I've read through this thread the past couple of days and I've noticed somewhat mixed feelings about this particular match-up; some have said it's absolutely no problem, and others have said it's a very difficult match-up for Robin. But I haven't seen any discussion on options or tactics for this.

Sonic is pretty much the only character I will consistently have trouble with, and it's making me start to feel like I'm going about the match-up the wrong way.

When you guys are in a match with a Sonic player, how do you typically approach the situation? I find Sonic to be much too fast for Robin to keep up. I do prefer playing more aggressively as Robin, but when fighting against Sonic I usually find myself playing a much more defensive game, and even then, I will rarely find an opportunity to safely attack.

It's been bugging me a lot recently, and it sounds like it's something that I could definitely be improving on.
 

Demonstormkill

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So, quick question about Robin vs Sonic. I've read through this thread the past couple of days and I've noticed somewhat mixed feelings about this particular match-up; some have said it's absolutely no problem, and others have said it's a very difficult match-up for Robin. But I haven't seen any discussion on options or tactics for this.

Sonic is pretty much the only character I will consistently have trouble with, and it's making me start to feel like I'm going about the match-up the wrong way.

When you guys are in a match with a Sonic player, how do you typically approach the situation? I find Sonic to be much too fast for Robin to keep up. I do prefer playing more aggressively as Robin, but when fighting against Sonic I usually find myself playing a much more defensive game, and even then, I will rarely find an opportunity to safely attack.

It's been bugging me a lot recently, and it sounds like it's something that I could definitely be improving on.
Honestly that's pretty normal, I think it'll happen to most players when they first play the matchup. I had no idea what I was doing for awhile vs. Sonic, kept getting hit with 30% spin dashes, so I went over to the Sonic boards and read up about the character. I messed around in training mode with him for a few hours and got used to all his moves and ATs. After getting a handle on how he actually plays, and watching a few high-level matches, it starts to feel like Sonic isn't just cheating all game long.

Sonic is possibly the best character at forcing opponents to play his game. This doesn't only apply to Robin, but most of the cast. With Robin in particular, since you're really slow, you can't exactly rush Sonic down. He just has more influence over how the match is played. Most Sonics don't fully exploit that advantage, and honestly, most of them don't seem to recognize the tradeoffs that Sonic makes for his moveset's strengths.

Strengths
+ Fast, damaging combos
+ Offensive pressure
+ Low startup and ending lag

Weaknesses
- Loss of neutral options, early commitment
- Short range

Players are used to either:

A) Going on offense directly and forcing favourable situations, or

B) Zoning and shutting down as many actions as possible from the opponent, punishing startup and end lag of unsafe options.

To do A, you need an appropriate moveset relative to the opposing character, and ideally a speed advantage.

To do B, your opponent's dangerous options have to be laggy enough for your punishes to get enough value. A range advantage is helpful.

But with Sonic, our moveset doesn't offer us much chance to rush him down, nor do his moves have enough lag to be reliably punished. Looking at his strengths, we can see that we lose both of these games. Although we have the range advantage, most of his moves just don't lag enough to punish in the usual way. Instead, we can more often punish his moves by out-ranging and outprioritizing them after he commits to an option. The most obvious example is homing attack. Here's a move that can be used creatively and aggressively, but which renders sonic unable to act for the whole duration, and sends him straight into you. Uair it! Move backwards and/or jump to manipulate the trajectory he comes in at. Use your range and priority! It always helps to keep your advantages in mind.

Obviously good Sonics aren't going to spam homing attack, and everything I've said is just the very basic concept of how Sonic works, but it took me awhile to really grasp and I think most people have the same problem. The problem compounds further when you fight a knowledgeable Sonic player and don't even know these basics.

I don't even want to go into higher level play because this post is big enough already, but as usual, the main thing is character knowledge. Here are some things to keep in mind:

- Sonic's dash attack is ultra laggy. If you block it, go ahead and fsmash him.
- Usmash has invincibility until the hitbox comes out, Spin dash (side-B) has invincibility at the start of his hop after releasing B, up-B has invulnerability until he's about halfway up.
- D-air will auto-cancel when he's up-B plus about a fullhop high.
- Dthrow knocks you down, you can tech.
- He's not great at killing. Bthrow, Bair and Usmash are the main killers, but he can also gimp us (Fair, spring).
- His air speed is still good (9th in the cast), but compared to his ground speed it feels slow, and his recovery is pretty linear because of the nature of his up-B. His primary recovery mixup is homing attack, and at any rate he's vulnerable offstage, just remember that up-B invulnerability.
 
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AC NuBurs

Defence Bowser
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Nov 29, 2014
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Hey guys, im no expert player or anything but I thought I would share a little thing I picked up from fighting a local yoshi at a tourney. Last time I played him, he beat me pretty convincingly, but I managed to go 2-3 against him this time, sadly he still took the set, but eh. Life moves on.

I didnt see this mentioned, so its either been over looked or its just obvious, but I might as well mention it: Yoshis shield. Obviously it works differently to other shields, it dosent shrink in size and this means that you can keep throwing things at it, and books and swords do a surprising amount of shield damage, and instead of shrinking his shield till eventually something hits them, I was able to break yoshis shield. I managed to break his shield twice when we played (the second time I wasn't able to kill him though lol, I threw a levin sword at him to break it).
Though it can be hard to make yoshi back off, Yoshi just has so much control in the air and over his air moves that its pretty tough for Robin, but its not unbeatable imo. Basically, I found that anytime I got yoshi out of range, I made life hell for him. Obviously hes not just going to sit there and block your nonsense though, so eh. Hope this helps anyone.

Also @ Teve31 Teve31 it might be worth looking at what yoshi players are trying to do, I went over to there boards and found a bit of discussion in there match up thread.

Also, I see a lot of people discussing robins bad matches, but what about his good ones?
 

TheHypnotoad

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
Messages
615
Also, I see a lot of people discussing robins bad matches, but what about his good ones?
Large characters and heavies. Robin obliterates them. You can throw an Arcfire that would whiff on any character besides Bowser, and hit Bowser, and then get an easy uair followup because of his weight. Same with Ganondorf, Donkey Kong, Charizard, and King Dedede. Also, their slow speed means it's more difficult for them to get up in Robin's face. They're pure combo bait, and have trouble disrupting Robin's zoning.
 

Pac-Main

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
5
Hey, guys. Even though my main is pretty self-evident, Robin is a close second main. I have a couple of matchups that seem to get me every time: :4tlink:, :4fox:, and :4diddy:.

:4tlink: is just such an annoyance. His spacing game is insane, and every time Robin tries to charge Thunder Toon Link can throw his full offensive arsenal at me. Arcfire won't do any good either, since Toon Link can easily hop over it. I know that I can punish his Down Air with a multitude of options, but smart players won't always go for that.

:4fox: is a mixed bag. If he tries to attempt a rushdown, Arcfire usually works fine enough. His air game is surprisingly strong, though. Of course, having a reflector doesn't make going in for the kill any easier for Robin. Any way to reliably KO Fox?

And, of course, :4diddy:. I have watched the Nairo/Nakat matchup time and time again, but since I'm not a god, Diddy Kong is always a tough [pea]nut to crack. With his myriad of spacing and rushdown options, I can never find a clear opening to attack Diddy Kong. Any tips on this matchup?

Don't kill me, I am still a noob in training. Thank you, all!

Mains: :4pacman::4robinm::4villager::4falcon::4littlemac:
 

Silverfox117

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
91
What is your guys opinion on the Rosalina match up. I recently played Ace Star the Third Rosalina's and I feel like the match up is almost dead even.
 

Janno

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Jan 3, 2015
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Once you are offstage you should be dead
She can suck in your Projektiles and items
Luma ist like a Levin sword

Its not too Bad, but definitely in rosalumas favour
 

TheHypnotoad

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
Messages
615
Hey, guys. Even though my main is pretty self-evident, Robin is a close second main. I have a couple of matchups that seem to get me every time: :4tlink:, :4fox:, and :4diddy:.

:4tlink: is just such an annoyance. His spacing game is insane, and every time Robin tries to charge Thunder Toon Link can throw his full offensive arsenal at me. Arcfire won't do any good either, since Toon Link can easily hop over it. I know that I can punish his Down Air with a multitude of options, but smart players won't always go for that.

:4fox: is a mixed bag. If he tries to attempt a rushdown, Arcfire usually works fine enough. His air game is surprisingly strong, though. Of course, having a reflector doesn't make going in for the kill any easier for Robin. Any way to reliably KO Fox?

And, of course, :4diddy:. I have watched the Nairo/Nakat matchup time and time again, but since I'm not a god, Diddy Kong is always a tough [pea]nut to crack. With his myriad of spacing and rushdown options, I can never find a clear opening to attack Diddy Kong. Any tips on this matchup?

Don't kill me, I am still a noob in training. Thank you, all!

Mains: :4pacman::4robinm::4villager::4falcon::4littlemac:
To be honest, I would never use Robin against any of those characters, I would just switch to my secondaries (Captain Falcon and Zero Suit Samus). Those are some of Robin's worst matchups. ESPECIALLY Fox, don't even bother learning the matchup, just stick with Pac Man if you're up against Fox. Fox is (in my opinion) Robin's second worst matchup.
 
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SuperDavio

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To be honest, I would never use Robin against any of those characters, I would just switch to my secondaries (Captain Falcon and Zero Suit Samus). Those are some of Robin's worst matchups. ESPECIALLY Fox, don't even bother learning the matchup, just stick with Pac Man if you're up against Fox. Fox is (in my opinion) Robin's second worst matchup.
On a scale of 1 to Sonic?
 

Dee-SmashinBoss

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 12, 2015
Messages
926
I think Kirby would do pretty decently against Robin(Keep in mind he can duck under neutral b on all stages of I am correct.)
Unlike other characters, I don't think Robin is too difficult to approach with Kirby(The Robins I run into on FG don't use ariels that often.)
I love fighting Robins because I try to get that neutral B for myself, which is one of the best in the game IMO.
Robins smashes are slow, but Do have like lingering hit boxes or like DDD's forward smash, that one sour spot that hits beyond the hammer(I think you guys should know what I'm talking about?)
Anyways I do find the recover somewhat annoying to try and edge guard, but I think I have found a way to try and get them.
I just hate that if you use 2 Thorons , you lose the copy ability(and let's be honest, I have been hit with it at high percentages and it still didnt KO me, so I think it's still somewhat weak?)
That's why I just stick with EL thunder and get some decent combos, because Kirby now has a good Projectile.
Generally, I think Kirby would do decently here, I would recommend getting that Inhale, seriously.
 

Pac-Main

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
5
To be honest, I would never use Robin against any of those characters, I would just switch to my secondaries (Captain Falcon and Zero Suit Samus). Those are some of Robin's worst matchups. ESPECIALLY Fox, don't even bother learning the matchup, just stick with Pac Man if you're up against Fox. Fox is (in my opinion) Robin's second worst matchup.
Thanks for your help, man. Yeah, I think I'll just stick with :4pacman: against :4fox:.

Yeah, I heard about how bad of a matchup :4robinm: vs. :4sonic:is. I'll steer clear of that one.
 

Silverfox117

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
91
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDE9ZgCYKjQ
If you guys watch the end of this video, it showcases me versus Ace's Rosalina.
1.Lets get this going by saying the match up is not as bad as people make it out to be. I would say its only a 55-45
2.Reasons
-Rosalina is super tall making it easy to Arcfire combo, land nairs, and Bairs
-She is pretty easy to juggle in the air
-Robin can recover low to avoid her dair spikes
-Nair(its a huge part of this match up, its spacing ability is amazing, and it seperates Rosalina from Luma making it the optimal normal to go for most of the time)
Negatives
-She shuts down thunder, and tomes hard
-her up air is so ridiculous, making it hard to land, and Robin is crappy at that too
So tell me what you think
 

TheHypnotoad

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
Messages
615
Okay, I've been thinking about making a complete matchup list for a while, but I've been too lazy to do it. I've finally gotten over that laziness. Note that all these matchups assume that there are no customs on. The characters aren't in any particular order in each tier unless stated.

Without further ado, here it is:

Hypnotoad's List of Opinions Which Are Superior to Your Opinions

+3
:4ganondorf: Robin's best matchup. Ganondorf is the only character whose speed is comparable to Robin's, and who also has no projectiles. Robin can easily zone him out with Arcfire, and due to his heaviness, he is complete combo bait.
:4bowser: Slow, heavy, no projectile, combo bait.
:4dk: Slow, heavy, no projectile, combo bait.
:4charizard: Slow, heavy, no projectile, combo bait.

+2
:4dedede: He would be a +3 if not for the fact that he has a spammable projectile to mess with your Thunder charging, and he has excellent recovery so he is difficult to gimp. His hammer also has very long range.
:4myfriends: He would also be +3, but the long range from his sword and semi-decent speed make him a +2 in my opinion.
:4marth: Although Marth is quite fast and is not heavy, there is very little he can actually do to Robin. His lack of projectiles means you can simply zone him out with Arcfire, and the massive nerf to his sword range that he received means that you can challenge him with your own sword.
:4lucina: Everything I just said about Marth also applies to Lucina.

+1
:4jigglypuff: Slow, super easy to KO due to weight, doesn't have any projectiles, easily gimpable due to lack of an up B. However, she has a small model and cannot be comboed.
:4shulk: The matchup is similar to Marth. However, his sword has longer range, and he can turn into a mini-Sonic with the Monado Arts. There is a complete analysis of this matchup in the first post in the thread.
:4palutena: Large model, fairly easy to combo, her only projectile is pathetic. Watch out for the reflector.
:4miisword: Similar to Marth. However, he does have a projectile, albeit a bad one.

0
:4drmario: Although he has a reflector and a projectile, he also has abysmal recovery.
:4peach: Has a decent projectile and a good aerial game, but isn't that big of a problem for Robin.
:4zelda: Has a non-spammable projectile and a reflector.
:4kirby: Similar to Jigglypuff, but is faster, stronger, has better recovery, and has a pseudo-projectile from Final Cutter.
:4wario: Great aerial game, but no projectile.
:rosalina: This is an interesting matchup. At first, you might think Rosalina wins, because she can absorb your projectiles with down B, and Luma can sponge everything but Thoron. However, she is also light and easy to KO.
:4duckhunt: Has many projectiles, all of which are very slow and easy to shield.
:4wiifit: Has a spammable projectile, but can be juggled due to the Levin Sword outranging her aerials.
:4miigun: Has projectiles, but is also slow and easy to combo.

-1
:4mario: Fast, strong, can combo Robin, has a reflector, can mess with your recovery with the Cape and F.L.U.D.D., and unlike Dr. Mario his recovery isn't garbage.
:4luigi: Spammable projectile, can combo easily, great recovery.
:4yoshi: Spammable projectile, good recovery, hard to punish.
:4zss: Fast, spammable projectile, can combo, has multiple methods for recovery.
:4metaknight: Fast, excellent recovery, can combo.
:4falco: Spammable projectile, reflector, good recovery.
:4pikachu: Fast, small, spammable projectile, can combo, excellent recovery.
:4falcon: Very fast, can combo.
:4gaw: Small, amazing aerial game, very good recovery, can absorb your projectiles.
:4pit: Very spammable projectile, excellent recovery, reflector.
:4darkpit: Everything said about Pit also applies to Dark Pit.
:4bowserjr: I have very little experience with this matchup, but from what I can tell, he has spammable projectiles, a good aerial game, and is small.
:4greninja: Spammable projectile, very fast.
:4megaman: Spammable projectiles.
:4pacman: Spammable projectiles.
:4miibrawl: Fast, can combo.

-2
:4link: Many, many, MANY spammable projectiles.
:4tlink: Same thing as Link, except now he's faster and smaller.
:4samus: Once again, many spammable projectiles.
:4lucario: Spammable projectile, very fast, excellent recovery.
:4ness: Small, amazing aerial game, can combo, can absorb your projectiles. Similar to Rosalina, except smaller and harder to combo.
:4olimar: Even better at zoning than you are, the Pikmin are super spammable and super annoying. Is also small and has very good reach with his aerials.
:4rob: Spammable projectiles, can combo, has a reflector.
:4villager: Spammable projectiles, small, can absorb your projectiles and throw them back at you.
:4littlemac: This one might be somewhat controversial. While he doesn't have any projectiles, he also happens to be EXTREMELY fast and hard to punish.

-3
:4diddy: HOO HAH. Is impossible to punish, bananas can ruin your day, good recovery, small, amazing aerial game. Robin's fourth worst matchup.
:4sheik: Nairo thinks this is Robin's worst matchup, I think it's the third worst. Sheik has a spammable projectile which is also one of the fastest projectiles in the game. She is a very fast character, she can combo you, she has amazing recovery, she is impossible to punish.
:4fox: Robin's second worst matchup. Has a spammable projectile, although luckily it won't interrupt a Thunder charge. Is very fast, can combo, has a reflector, can jab lock, is difficult to punish. Not a fun matchup.
:4sonic: Here it is, the character everyone loves to hate, and also Robin's number one worst matchup. Zareidriel thinks this matchup isn't that bad, but I have to disagree. He may not have a projectile, but he does have one thing that Robin absolutely hates dealing with: he's fast. The fastest character in the game, to be exact. You cannot zone him at all, by the time you throw out an Arcfire he's already in your face hitting you. He's also small, and can combo you. Sonic is an absolute nightmare for Robin.


So there are my opinions. Please keep in mind that these are opinions, not facts, and that they may not necessarily be correct. Feel free to agree, disagree, get defensive, call me a scrub, etc. If you want me to be more specific about some matchups, let me know.
 
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Macchiato

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+1
:4zelda: Has a non-spammable projectile and a bad reflector, and not much else.

:4wiifit: Has a semi-spammable projectile, but that's about it
ROBIN VS ZELDA

Neutral
Zelda does not need to approach since robins projectiles are slow and Zelda can simply reflect them. Any charging or arcfiring will result in a free farores wind. Zelda also combos him very easily and he is the perfect height for a lightning kick. Zeldas moves also combo out faster and have less lag. Robins projectiles don't threaten Zelda at all since we have a fast and long lasting reflector. We also easily punish him due to his ending lag. We are actually light and floaty enough to escape arcfire and we have the same range. We are also faster. The only advantage Robin has is a Decent projectile. Due to farores wind we can punish everytime he throws out a projectile. We both have trouble landing once we get each other in the air. Everytime he hits us, we can LK or Nayrus love oos. We should also note that shield too much will end up in a noferatsu. Zelda wins in neutral.

Edgeguarding
Zelda definitely wins, his recovery is predictable and easily daired or dtilted. We can EASILY edgeguard him with no problem, when can phantom and even dins fire. The only way he can edgeguard is perfect frame edgeguard and robins dair isn't long lasting. There is no other way for him to edgeguard us while we easily edgeguard him.

Killing
Zelda can easily get elevator kills on him due to ending lag. She kills him at 70%. We can also get lightning kicks oos that kill at 70%. If he gets an arcfire at like 85% he's a kill if he's fast enough because we can escape it.

Stages

I think they both like the same stages. We both do well on them all.

Customs

We get blaze and strike for landing options. He gets fire wall and and speed thunder for zoning purposes

Score
I say it's 65-35 to Zelda



WiiFit vs Robin

Neutral
Wii fit doesn't need to approach either due to her projectile as good as robins. They're also faster. She can also crawl under his thunder because she has the 3rd lowest crouch. Robin gets comboed bad by Wii fit since she easily pressures him due to her superior mobility. She can get 2 nairs to an uair which does 40%. All of Wii fits moves are faster, range isn't a problem actually. She racks up damage must faster. Her grab is about the same speed. If Wii fit is in a bad position, her jab and ftilt are fast. On the ledge she can easily recover back because header can get them away or force them to shield. Pressuring with nair does high shield damage and combos into everything and also does 14%. At the start of a stock, using deep breathing can help rack up percent even faster which is horrifying because nair does like 17% and all her moves increase in damage. Robin does outrange and that's all.

Edgeguarding
If Robin try's to edgeguard Wii fit, he could get staged spiked by super hoops which can get in Wii fits favor. Also she can header spike him which is a long lasting move. She can run off the stage with fair and spike him with the leg hitbox or dair. Robin can edgeguard and also gimp but hers goes higher but he can definitely gimp her with aerials but her recovery goes very high so she can possibly recover at mid percents.

Killing
Robin kills the same percent but also note than sometimes Wii fit can also pop out of arcfire and without it, his smashes are hard to land. WFT's ftilt kills at a decent percent like around 110%, the back hit kills later. Bair oos kills at around 90%. She also has a kill set up which is FF SH nair to Usmash which is a true combo and kills around 75% so be careful for that. Deep breathing also should be taken into account. Robin kills around 85 or so which is pretty good.

Stages
Wii fit benefits more on platforms than Robin so we prefer Town City, Battlefield, and Halberd. NEVER take Wii fit to halberd or delfino ban those right away because we can ledge camp and shark easily. Robin should go to smashville or FD.

Customs
Wii fit gets sweeping salutation, this ignores robins projectiles and go through it and also can gimp him or at least set up for a early gimp.
Weighted header for combos, and edgeguarding. It will also start his approach attempts.
Jumbo hoops for obvious reasons lol.
Either breathing works
I'd say that Wii fit would use 332X
Robin will probably use default nofuratsu and Elwind.
Speed thunder helps her keep up with Wii fit.
Fire wall helps him wall her out a bit better.

Score
I'd say with customs 65-35 Wii Fit
With customs off 60-40 Wii fit.
 
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Gamegenie222

Space Pheasant Dragon Tactician
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Umm Bowser is tied with Marcina for running speed and Charizard is like top 10 runners in the game and this is coming from a person plays Marcina, Robin and Bowser.
 
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TheHypnotoad

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
Messages
615
Stages
Wii fit benefits more on platforms than Robin so we prefer Town City, Battlefield, and Halberd. NEVER take Wii fit to halberd or delfino ban those right away because we can ledge camp and shark easily. Robin should go to smashville or FD.
Say what? Robin HATES Final Destination, and Smashville isn't much better. I would take any character in the game to Town and City, Battlefield, and Delfino; those are actually Robin's three best stages.

I actually originally had both Zelda and Wii Fit Trainer as neutral, and I guess Wii Fit Trainer is more neutral than in Robin's favor, but I will defend Zelda being +1.

Bowser/Charizard vs Robin is not +3, did you ACTUALLY just call both of them slow?
Fine, jeez, I'll change the part about them being slow. I still think it's +3.
 
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Macchiato

Smash Hero
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Macchiatooo
Say what? Robin HATES Final Destination, and Smashville isn't much better. I would take any character in the game to Town and City, Battlefield, and Delfino; those are actually Robin's three best stages.

I actually originally had both Zelda and Wii Fit Trainer as neutral, and I guess Wii Fit Trainer is more neutral than in Robin's favor, but I will defend Zelda being +1.



Fine, jeez. I still think it's +3.
WAT, Zelda completely out classes Robin on the ground and killing and edgeguarding.
 
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