World 8 - 1: Mario vs Luigi Match-Up Thread

[HeroMystic]

Vs Luigi​

​

Match-Up Summary

The Mario Bros are at it again, and this time they both have juggles, and solid strategies against each other.

Luigi is a powerful combatant in this iteration of Smash, possessing the highest attack speed in the game, solid true combos and easy kill set-ups from his D-throw. His damage per hit is quite high, and his fireball controls a decent amount of space. Lastly, his raw KO power rivals Mario's, but also has a much more versatile toolkit. F-Smash, D-throw > Cyclone, D-throw > N-air, D-Throw > D-air Spike, and D-throw > Up-B can all kill at mid to +120%. U-Smash and B-Throw can give out clutch kills if Luigi can't grab Mario.

The running theme here is Luigi relies a lot on his grabs. D-throw sets up so many things that it's nearly imperative for him to get it. D-throw > F-airx2 is a BnB for many mid-level Luigi players, but high level Luigis know of his options.

F-air > N-air (True Combo)
F-air > U-air (True Combo)
D-air Spike > N-air
B-air

Another thing that should be noted is Luigi's edgeguarding. While overall it is extremely poor due to his air speed, Cyclone is capable of gimping Mario almost guaranteed if he recovers low. Fortunately, none of Luigi's on-stage attacks forces Mario to recover low with the exception of D-throw > D-air. If you as a Mario player get caught in this situation, pray that the Luigi player messes up the timing, because that is the only way you'll make it past this.

Scary, isn't it? Well, Mario has handled worse before. In Brawl, DeDeDe has a solid infinite chaingrab on Mario, and so did Ice Climbers. What was the answer to this? Don't get grabbed. Fortunately, this is very, very possible to do against Luigi.

Mario has two solid advantages over Luigi: Mobility, and Range. These combined allows Mario to have a solid defensive strategy against his brother. U-Smash is a powerful anti-air which makes aerial approaches not worth much for Luigi, and it makes him capable of conservatively juggling him in the air. Luigi's only valid approaching option is Cyclone, and if he misses this, he's wide open for any punish. Luigi's low traction makes running shield, often a great offensive approach option, rather worthless for Luigi since he is unable to stay close to his target after the fact (unless powershielded). Otherwise, Luigi is forced to be patient and use fireballs to create opportunities to take advantage of, much like Mario in other match-ups.

Mario also has a strong advantage with edgeguarding. While he doesn't want to challenge Cyclone (you will get gimped if challenge it with anything but fireball), he can challenge green missile with Cape and FLUDD off-stage. Forcing Luigi to lose his double jump also puts him in peril (unless he can do a Jumpless Cyclone). It's best for Mario to interrupt his Green Missile as that is the only way for him to recover horizontally. Mario's edgeguarding can make up for the fact that Mario he only has F-Smash and U-Smash to reliably kill with.

If Mario gets grabbed, he can minimize damage by confusing Luigi with DI. N-air is also a good combo-breaker to use this match.

In conclusion, this is basically a more action-packed version of the Match-Up in Brawl. Luigi will want to be aggressive while Mario will stay on the defense. Mario will utilize what true combos he has on Luigi and then just juggle and punish any attempts of reckless approaches. Luigi will bait and look for any opportunies to set up combo strings and KO attempts.

Ratio: 45:55 in Luigi's favor.

Counterpick Stages: Battlefield or Omega Stages with Wall Jump capabilities (preferably Luigi's Mansion). Ban Halberd and Delfino.

 

[HeroMystic]

Don't have much time, but I find that this MU is probably 60:40 in Luigi's favor. His attack speed is overall better, and he's way too good at combo-breaking us.

On the other hand, Mario's mobility and defense keeps this match-up in control. Our N-air also blocks his combos (for the most part), and D-throw is still good to use for mix-ups. D-throw to Up-B is a true combo and U-Smash is super reliable for anti-air approaches. Our problem will be snatching KOs.

The reason why this is 60:40 is purely statistics. Luigi always trades better, his recovery is better, his kill set-ups are better and he will gimp us 100% of the time if we recover low. That said, Mario has better neutrals and can counter the majority of Luigi's approaches. So if Mario plays patient, this is a winnable MU.

 

[- Theelitebrawler -]

I'd also like to add the fact that you can DI into him once he dthrows you like you mentioned in a diff thread, so he can only string one fair. I havent had a luigi who could nair/uair after the fair either once I DI his dthrow.

 

[A2ZOMG]

This matchup I'd argue is Mario's favor under customs, where Fast Fireballs actually let you beat him in the projectile war and force him to approach reliably, and where Gust Cape is also pretty valuable for spacing against him consistently. Basically, the best way for Mario to win this matchup is a really long spacing war and avoiding letting Luigi get close.

The problem without customs is Luigi's Fireball is actually kinda too good. He can spam it faster than Mario, and he gets better frame traps and setups from it. This is really problematic in midrange when it means you pretty much can't really do much of anything on the ground against him. You can try to Cape it, but keep in mind he usually recovers well before you actually get to reflect the fireball.

In addition to the above mentioned stuff where his combos and overall damage output are also a problem. Juggling him is actually not hard, but only if you want to do it really conservatively. Basically, it's better to focus on simply keeping him above you where you can space U-smash, and avoid going for long combos.

Remember that it's actually fairly safe to throw out Smashes against Luigi given he slides a lot when blocking. Given F-smash does outrange his other ground moves, it's a way to outplay him and should be abused.

 

[TriTails]

I'd also like to add the fact that you can DI into him once he dthrows you like you mentioned in a diff thread, so he can only string one fair. I havent had a luigi who could nair/uair after the fair either once I DI his dthrow.

DI-ing the D-throw (Especially upwards) is basically just asking for a more powerful combo, especially at 90% or so.

If you are at 'bounceable' percent from spike (So when he spikes you with his D-air and you kiss the ground, you'll bounce upwards), he can follow up with any aerial, including bouncing you again with another D-air with the help of double jump, then he might finish it with N-air or B-air, both can kill, or Nado, which puts you high up in the air and you can get juggled, or even Fire Jump Punch!

DI-ing the D-throw upwards doesn't make it harmless in lower percents, either. He can F-air and laucnh you backwards, and kick you again with another B-air in the face. Though, it DOES save you from chaingrabs, so DI away if you want.... at lower percentage only, remember. He can also just U-air or N-air you, maybe even B-air and D-air. And thing is, Luigi's combos are all improvisable, so just try to not get grabbed as much as possible.

And also, watch out for that N-air. FF sourspot N-air is basically his second D-throw, though more limited. At low percentage, it can combo to U-tilt(s) and U-smash, at higher percentage, it can combo to aerials. Protect yourself with U-smash, you're going to need it.

Yeah, those combos may be new to you all. I also just recently found them, so.... maybe there is only little Luigi mains who know this.... just watch out anyway.

Don't think your attacks are safe on his shield with his traction, either. He can roll out to cancel out the sliding once the shield stun is gone, and get back to neutral. You can go nuts with smashes, but don't overdo it, or else you'll just get punished by Nado because of end lag and it's speed on the ground.

 

[- Theelitebrawler -]

Thanks for the information Tails, however I did not mean to DI upward. I meant to DI directly into luigi (left/right) depending on the position he is standing. Any takes on that? From my experience, Luigi can't string as many moves but I may be wrong.

 

[TriTails]

Thanks for the information Tails, however I did not mean to DI upward. I meant to DI directly into luigi (left/right) depending on the position he is standing. Any takes on that? From my experience, Luigi can't string as many moves but I may be wrong.

Well, then that would mean you're going to end up ABOVE HIM right?

If you DI towards Weegee, then (maybe) you'll get knocked upwards, leaving you vunerable to D-air spike, and no, Luigi can string every aerials with his D-air spike, including KO-ing you with B-air or N-air,, Nado, or FJP (If he is gud and lucky enough) and is actually the only combo string he can get at higher percentages (F-air combo obviously won't work lol).

Sorry for misinformation. I dunno what direction do you put in, but just try to not end up above him when you are at bounceable percent (For Mario's case.... around 80-90%? Dunno). It can mean a stock of he IS REALLY FEELING IT! (Can't resist......)

 

[HeroMystic]

I'm having a hard time believing Luigi can land a 12-frame aerial when Mario has N-air. Even then, Mario can tech the D-air spike.

There's also no point to Mario DIing towards Luigi at 80/90% because we no longer have to worry about low string combos. After that we'll be DIing away from Luigi to avoid his kill setups.

 

[TriTails]

I'm having a hard time believing Luigi can land a 12-frame aerial when Mario has N-air. Even then, Mario can tech the D-air spike.

There's also no point to Mario DIing towards Luigi at 80/90% because we no longer have to worry about low string combos. After that we'll be DIing away from Luigi to avoid his kill setups.

D-air is frame 10.

It's a true combo.... I think. D-throw has almost nonexistant end lag, and Luigi can quickly double jump to fasten himself up. Well, I don't even know if Mario's frame 3 N-air can break through it, but if it is possible, there is always Cyclone and FJP along with his other killing aerials. Even if Mario tech, 16% damage is still taken by him.

If you don't DI towards Weegee at 80/90%, he'll be having a nice time landing a sweetspotted B-air to your face. Though, DI-ing towards him still puts you in danger of N-air and U-air.

I honestly has never seen CPUs DI away from Weegee after the D-throw, or its just hard to notice. Even then, Weegee may still be able to land a B-air, or just plain Cyclone. CPUs DI towards Weegee like, a lot. But never notice them DI away. Even then, Luigi may still be able to land his aerials.

Just know that D-throw is dangerous, even when DI-ed. Pro tip: Don't get grabbed.

And watch out for Nado, it plows through Fireballs.

 

[HeroMystic]

Testing...

CPUs don't DI at all, but I can confirm everything but Cyclone is a true combo at 90% and possibly before that. I can't test with DI because my dexterity is not that proficient.

 

[TriTails]

The D-throw launch angle seem different each time I use the D-throw (Well, not every time, but pretty often). One try they are bouncing to above Weegee, the next try they are bouncing slightly to the side of above Weegee (Well, I can't use my 3DS at Monday-Thursday, so that was tests from........ a lot of tests back then). Or is it because 'Well-it's-Luigi. What-did-you-expect?' thing?

I swear, I have heard stories of Nado kills at 100% or so just above the ground (Not even Jiggly dies that early from Nado) without rage. Now this? Luigi breaks every physics in SSB.....

I do believe Cyclone is a true combo.... there is even a video about in in Weegee boards, hang on.

FOUND IT!
http://smashboards.com/threads/dthrow-cyclone-video.384079/ ~Credits to ThunderSt0rm for the topic and the video.

It doesn't matter if they DI, it's a true combo if pulled off correctly and properly. Though, sometimes, opponents fall out, but still, dat 9% damage counts! And juggling potential, too!

 

[HeroMystic]

What are Luigi's approach options except Cyclone and running shield?

 

[A2ZOMG]

What are Luigi's approach options except Cyclone and running shield?

Fireball zoning -> stage control -> winning footsies. Mario can try to respond to this with Cape, but it's not reliable given Luigi's Fireball has very low commitment.

Also run up -> F-air is something Mario actually has fairly poor responses to. Not easy for Mario to punish reactively, which further encourages Mario to win the matchup by running away constantly.

 

[TriTails]

What are Luigi's approach options except Cyclone and running shield?

A lot.

Fireballs are usually used first to aid those tricks.
- Dash grab (Self-explanatory)
- Luigi Cyclone (If you do a running one, it can surprise opponent quite well, thinking you'll be doing a dash grab and spotdodge/roll, only to get punished with Cyclone's lingering hitbox)
- Green Missile (Not very reliable....)
- SHFF (spaced) B-air, N-air, F-air, or D-air (Yet another self-explanatory trick)
- Full Hop FF N-air/D-air (Answer it with U-smash)
- The typical 'Charge-to-people' way
- Perfect Pivoting...? (Considering on how Luigi has the 2nd farthest PP)
- Dash for a second, let him slide, then dash again (One way for people with low traction like Luigi, Yoshi, or Greninja. You dash really quick, and your character will do the startup dash animation, and slide while being able to attack. Tricky to figure out)

Or..... the infamous....
'Let-them-mess-up-and-punish-them-hard' way. Don't go making too much mistake.

And escape to the air. On the ground you'll just get slapped by the Cyclone.

 

[HeroMystic]

I should've said viable approach options. A lot of that can be shut down with U-Smash, Up-B OOS, or throwing out a hitbox in general.

 

[TriTails]

I should've said viable approach options. A lot of that can be shut down with U-Smash, Up-B OOS, or throwing out a hitbox in general.

Well, Luigi suck at approaching, as you have known, and he focuses on punishing to approach, rather than actual approaches.

Though, his best options (Not neccesarily viable, but oh well) would be Luigi Cyclone (I could rant for another hour on how much end lag this move packs, but it's extremely useful when not whiffing, but that's another story), and SHFF (spaced) B-airs, F-airs, N-airs, and D-airs. Though, the most safe option would be SHFF aerials. There may be another ways on approaching with Weegee, but that's what I know of.

Luigi's approach options may be many, but most of them aren't very viable. And we all know the green plumber isn't all that great on approaching, so......

 

[HeroMystic]

Well, Luigi suck at approaching, as you have known, and he focuses on punishing to approach, rather than actual approaches.

Though, his best options (Not neccesarily viable, but oh well) would be Luigi Cyclone (I could rant for another hour on how much end lag this move packs, but it's extremely useful when not whiffing, but that's another story), and SHFF (spaced) B-airs, F-airs, N-airs, and D-airs. Though, the most safe option would be SHFF aerials. There may be another ways on approaching with Weegee, but that's what I know of.

Luigi's approach options may be many, but most of them aren't very viable. And we all know the green plumber isn't all that great on approaching, so......

Always good to make sure.

That said, Mario's best option strategy to use his mobility to his advantage and go full defense vs Luigi. Ideally, if Mario stays with this tactic then Mario should be able to tack on percents faster than Luigi can, but then Mario's issue will be closing out stocks, which Luigi can do (and possibly has the easiest time doing so in the game).

Perhaps Mario's edgeguarding can make this easier, but I'll have to look into this.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Luigi is one of the easier characters in the game to edgeguard. His default Up-B gets almost no distance making it very predictable when he wants to use it, and in order for him to get distance, he has to commit relatively hard to Green Missile and Tornado recovery. Once you manage to wait those out, and hit him out of those, he can sometimes have a hard time getting back.

On a custom environment, his recovery does get buffed to completely ungimpable levels with Floating/Quick Missile, Rising Cyclone, and Burial Header. Speaking of Burial Header, it's a surprisingly good move. Less landing lag than default, and very good for punishing committed juggle attempts.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Luigi is one of the easier characters in the game to edgeguard. His default Up-B gets almost no distance making it very predictable when he wants to use it, and in order for him to get distance, he has to commit relatively hard to Green Missile and Tornado recovery. Once you manage to wait those out, and hit him out of those, he can sometimes have a hard time getting back.

On a custom environment, his recovery does get buffed to completely ungimpable levels with Floating/Quick Missile, Rising Cyclone, and Burial Header. Speaking of Burial Header, it's a surprisingly good move. Less landing lag than default, and very good for punishing committed juggle attempts.

Rising Cyclone is hilariously easy IMO since it's the same as Doc's and it has like no horizontal movement at all plus they're stuck in the arms spread out pose for a lot of frames (and it does not ledge snap until a good deal after the arms are stretched out IIRC). Missiles I would be confident in just caping honestly, no matter what they're always linear and on a simple trajectory that should be easy to just Gust Cape and watching them whizz to death.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Well the thing about Rising Cyclone + missile customs is it gives Luigi a lot of freedom to recover really high. Of course, then he has to deal with being juggled, but as I said, his custom recovery can't really be gimped.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Well the thing about Rising Cyclone + missile customs is it gives Luigi a lot of freedom to recover really high. Of course, then he has to deal with being juggled, but as I said, his custom recovery can't really be gimped.

He probably can't make it on-stage reliably to Mario unless he absolutely outfoxes him. He ends up going high he's in a pretty awful spot vs. Mario in most given situations. He goes low, well, missiles are funny like that in that if you go low you're getting caped, and Rising Cyclone only actually hits you on the last frames (otherwise it just minorly blows you away which is probably negligible factoring in aerial motion. I also believe that rising out of post-double jump is still hard even with Rising Cyclone so he's limited in how high he can go at most given points) His only real option is to go high but then he risks eating more damage, getting pushed offstage without a Double Jump, or just KO'd.

Dunno, I feel like those customs make it harder for other chars more than Mario. Mario with customs has a super diverse absolutely devastating gimp game with Gust Cape and High Pressure Squirty Nozzle, I don't know where Luigi can go to avoid imminent death even with his silly custom recovery.

 

[-Sensei-]

Can Mario's fair trade with Rising Cyclone and still get the spike?

 

[hey_there]

If you're DI'ing towards Luigi to avoid low % double fairs, Luigi can counter this by pulling back slightly while jumping to still land the double fairs. I don't see very many Luigi players doing this, but it it's an option I personally use whenever I'm against players that know how to DI against Luigi.

Approaching Mario is hard but not impossible. Even if Mario is fireball camping, Luigi can eventually make his way to him and start trading blows and generally come out on top. In my experience Mario's fsmash really is the key to beating Luigi because of it's huge reach, power, and quick recovery. Usmash is also really good as well with the partial invincibility on Mario's head making it a worthy stuff to Luigi's aerial approaches, though Luigi can do the same thing.

On the note of customs, I don't think any good Luigi player will ever not pack default cyclone. I could see Burial Header being useful against Mario simply because it allows Luigi to recover high to avoid being the dreaded cape.

On an unrelated note, Mario is a very fun and intense match ^_^.

 

[HeroMystic]

If you're DI'ing towards Luigi to avoid low % double fairs, Luigi can counter this by pulling back slightly while jumping to still land the double fairs. I don't see very many Luigi players doing this, but it it's an option I personally use whenever I'm against players that know how to DI against Luigi.

This is good to note, but I do want to say that Mario's N-air beats Luigi's second F-air. So you actually want to use F-air > N-air to make it a true combo. You lose the combo setups but at least Luigi still has the advantageous position.

 

[TriTails]

To the edgeguarding thingy, FLUDD is pretty much having a hard time gimping Missile. It sends Luigi upwards in most (Or all....) cases.

Though, Luigi gets a lot of freedom with his Cyclone, being able to recover high or low whatever the situation (As long as he has his double jump, that is), it rises quite fast, and the priority is real. I tried to recover low against a lot of Marios, and ended up getting my Cyclone stealed with Fireballs. Luigi's best move would be recovering as high as he can, though, this can mean juggles from Mario, but I think it's the best option for the ol' Weegee.

If I remember right, Mario can jump quite high as well, so I think he can nail Luigi with a SJP, though he has to be careful to not miss the ledge and stupidly SD himself, trust me, I have. So Luigi now has to rely on his mixups in rcovering, or else he'll get destroyed every single time he is sent off-stage.

I have a habit on letting Mario Cape my Missile (The Missile has already lost a lot of speed, maybe even already on the verge of stopping, so I'm not getting Caped too far away), then just nail him with Cyclone as he tries to recover. Thing is, Mario can't go out too far when egeguarding, as his rcovery is pretty poor, so you can bet he won't be Caping you with his double jump, so he has to be pretty close to the ledge.

Though, it's possible those Marios are just bad at Caping, but that's what I did anyway. Don't tell me you can recover high with Weegee after getting semi-spiked by his D-smash.

Oh, and yes, his D-smash semi-spikes. You don't want to get caught in that.

Speaking of customs, I don't really like Quick Missile. Yeah, I know that a fully charged version sends you from one end of FD to another (Yes, it does). Thing is, the end lag. Don't get me started on that.

Floating Missile, while it does cover the same distance as default Missile, it charges up REAL fast. But you loses a lot of power, that's a thing to note.

Fiery Jump Punch sucks, enough said.

Burial Header. Ah yes, the time where I pwned two level 9 CPUs (A 2 on 1) where I literally just spammed this move over and over again and just smash attack'd them to their death.

Personal experiences aside, this Up-b 3 is actually good. This make Luigi loses his legendary FJP, sure. But it's actually a good thing to counter juggles (Unless you are lvl 9 CPUs who can U-tilt/U-smash every BH attempts), and plain damaging in general. The end lag is significantly decreased, and it's nice for offensive.

Rising Cyclone? Do you guys mean MACH Cyclone? Well, that move is great for recovering, I can say that. Haven't been using it too much, so I don't know much about this.

Cholestline (Or whatever-line) Cyclone is pretty bad. Yeah, it's stronger, but the fact you cannot float with it and it goes slower make this a bad move to use against Mario in general.

Bouncing Fireballs = Mario's normal Fireballs, enough said.

Iceball, I don't know a thing about this thing. All I know that it freezes opponents at around 49%, and it deals 4%. So I shouldn't say much about this.

This is good to note, but I do want to say that Mario's N-air beats Luigi's second F-air. So you actually want to use F-air > N-air to make it a true combo. You lose the combo setups but at least Luigi still has the advantageous position.

N-air itself is a decent combo starter at lower percentages (Even when sweetspotted), so Luigi should be able to follow up with another aerial. Through fast-falling, of course.

And,

On an unrelated note, Mario is a very fun and intense match ^_^.

 

[HeroMystic]

I'll need a general consensus for a match-up ratio before I post the summary. The thread will always be open for discussion, but the MU thread needs to move on to the next character.

 

[TriTails]

Thing is, will the ratio based off without customs, with customs, or both?

 

[HeroMystic]

Without customs.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Here's my values for both:

4/6 Luigi's favor no customs
55/45 Mario's favor with customs

 

[hey_there]

Personally I feel it's closer to 55/45 in Luigi's favour sans customs. Despite Luigi hitting harder and killing earlier, Mario can combo just as hard, is extremely mobile, and capes missile without too much trouble. They're both combo heavy with a combo breaking nair, but for the most part Luigi wins in the trades, so I give Luigi the advantage. But given a read for Mario's fsmash against Luigi's poorer range and he's done for. Very intense action-packed match up.

I don't have the experience to comment on the customs on match up but it's probably 100:0 Luigi cause he's green.

 

[TriTails]

Notice on how Mario's F-smash comes out at F16 while Luigi's comes out at F12 (Probably one of the fastest F-smashes in the game. I do recall the fastest is F10), and Luigi's normals only has two moves that is frame [Insert double digit numbers]. Though, while Mario is similiar, I think F-smash is one of Mario's laggiest move, coming out at the same frame as F-air. I also had Marios who cannot land the sweetspot due to me breathing on their face most of the time, and I do recall sourpotted F-smash is slightly weaker than Luigi's.

Though, if Mario can space well, then that problem won't be a..... problem lol. But to play it safe, I think its closer to 55:45 Luigi because of Mario's superior F-smash and mobility. That said, a lot of VS Mario matches I have boils down to 100+% due to on how both bros can meet in their own terms, but for most matches, I won, barely .

Customs... I have no idea what Mario's customs are, so I guess I'll just shut up there.

Dangit. For almost every MU, I have to say 'Luigi loses in mobility'. Man, that thing gets old fast.

 

[HeroMystic]

F-Smash is indeed Mario's laggiest move, only beaten by F-air.

A little surprised by 55:45 being thrown out, but considering there's two votes for 60:40 and two votes for 55:45, I'll go ahead and just put both down until we get a tiebreaker. MU ratios aren't a big deal for now.

 

[warionumbah2]

Customs... I have no idea what Mario's customs are, so I guess I'll just shut up there.

Mario's best customs against Luigi is Gust Cape and Fast fireball. Gust Cape makes it easy to gimp his recovery and keep Luigi away due to wind hitbox.Fast Fireball allows Mario dominate the camp war Luigi will have to play Mario's game with his sub par mobility.

This is the same case for Doc but i don't know about FLUDD, Luigi's customs are pretty bad and don't help counter act the projectile spam. I think Mario wins because he doesn't need to approach to rack up damage, The MU was already close with default moveset so its obvious Mario has the edge due superior specials.

 

[Xeze]

I'd say the ratio is 55:45 in Luigi's favor. The combo games are strong for both, they can edgeguard each other pretty well but Luigi has better kill setups.

On another note, why is specifically Omega Wrecking Crew a counterpick?

 

[HeroMystic]

Mario can wall jump to aid his recovery if he has to recover low.

 

[Xeze]

In that case wouldn't all "block-type" Omegas count?

 

[HeroMystic]

If wall-jumpable yes. I do believe Wily Castle is not wall-jumpable and I'm pretty sure Kalos is not either. Correct me on this if I'm incorrect.

 

[Xeze]

Kalos League isn't wall-jumpable, but Wily's Castle is. At least on the 3DS version it is, so the same should apply to Wii-U.

 

[HeroMystic]

I'll test what is wall-jumpable when I get off work and then add them to the OP. I default to wrecking crew because I like the music there.

 

[M@v]

If this isn't on FD, this is probably my favorite matchup in the game so far. Dead even imo and sooooooooooooooooo muuuuuuuuuucccccccchhhhhhhh fffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuunnnnnnnnnnnnnnn <3


If its on FD it turns into fireball wars.

Anyway, some quick points:

Both have small combos. Mario can use Upb to get out some early, and luigi has nair. Luigi cannot escape downthrow straight into upb though. If you go for uptilts, be ready for a nair, so try to bait it and re-grab. Both characters can go offstage after eachother, although I feel mario has the edge due to A: Fludd being able to throw off luigi's recovery completely (It can cause chaos with side b and tornado) and B: Mario can safely recover most of the time thanks to Upb invincibility. As for the cyclone low, just be aware of it. Don't underestimate how far mario's Upb reaches. If you see him going for it and you're too far, either get high, cape to stall, throw out a nair or upair, or upb immediately if you are close enough. Up Bing too far away in hopes of a trade won't work since you are, well, invincible on startup.

Its hard for me to explain the neutral; its extremely dynamic. I wish i had some videos to show . As I mentioned, if its FD or a flat stage like that, the neutral does de-generate into a lot of fireball tossing.

P.S. I have a Luigi in my APEX pool (Mr.ConCon) but its bracket pools, so there's no telling if I will run into him or not.