Why Samus Will NOT get Buffed in a potential future patch.

[zerantoss]

1) Samus has already been buffed in multiple previous patches.

2) More importantly, win rates. Samus has high win rates.

Nintendo doesn't collect data from tournament games. It may highlight a few things that need to be fixed, but most balance changes stem from online data. The highest priority games they use are the win rates from For Glory 1v1.

The problem arises from For Glory and the nature of Samus. Unfortunately for Samus, since she has poor frame data and a high learning curve to understand her movement and spacing, bad players will not play samus, but good players will.

Statistically, the majority of Samus players have solid Smash bros fundamentals and win a lot against the average for glory player, who most likely has limited experience against Samus. Good samus players around the world increase the win rate for Samus globaly, and the bad Samus players... stop playing Samus and move to a high tier. The bad players will choose easier to play "top tiers" and lose as the high tiers because of their poor skill. This skews the data even more, preventing high tiers from being nerfed as hard.

The Solution? There is no solution... Samus mains have been ravaging FG for the past year and skewing the win rates... decreasing the chance of major buffs with every victory... there is no solution...

OR IS THERE...? ATTENTION ALL SAMUS MAINS! GO TO FOR GLORY AND GO ON A LOSING STREAK FOR THE NEXT MONTH AND WE SHALL GET BUFFS MWAHAHAHAHA.... but seriously, RIP samus.

 

[Conn1496]

I think this is pretty true, and it's actually pretty unfortunate. But I don't think it's totally down to this and this alone.

They've shown some interest in nerfing top tiers before, most notably Diddy, and as of 1.1.4 they also nerfed the current Top Tiers, and though not by much, here's to hoping another patch helps balance the game further, or atleast future installments of Smash learn from this.

That being said, I do think the casual enjoyment of this game has a lot to do with who gets buffed or not and how, and as far as Casual play goes, Samus is OP. That's just the problem. Samus is actually pretty good everywhere outside of a serious competitive environment, and I don't think Nintendo can do much about it without making her more irritating to newer players, which I'm happy to back up as a fair decision to make. (That being said, Link got buffs... >_>'') It's not just about the competitive scene, and without the humble, casual beginnings, I don't think the game could have flourished into the game it is today.

With that in mind, you also have to look at the opposite side of the spectrum - there are a lot of Samus players who like her as she is and have stuck by her in all her low-tier glory since the Melee days, and I think some people genuinely wear it like a badge of pride. Which is okay to do so, but I think it also creates a split in the Samus playerbase where some people want to see he get buffs so she's viable and others don't so they can retain that they play a fun, low-tier character. -and obviously, the easier option is to keep her as is...

Another thing I'd like to note is that, I've played characters before who's buffs have ruined them in my eyes. Ike, being the most notable one. I do not like post-buff Ike (This was a fair while ago.) at all. Do not ask me why, I just don't. I picked him up for his pre-patch playstyle and what I ended up with was a pretty different game-plan, so I just dropped Ike. Same goes for Ganon and his new N-Air. I hate it so much as a change, I dropped Ganon. Unless they just power-creeped Samus (Which links back to the problem of making her OP for casuals to pick up.), I honestly don't think there are many changes they could make to her that would please her entire playerbase, and if there are, I don't think they've thought of them yet...

While personally, I don't think a power-creep or even some frame data improvements would be a bad idea for Samus buffs, I do think it would effectively irritate a bigger portion of the community than it would satisfy, and I think that's the problem when it comes to expecting buffs and nerfs - you have to make them seem fair to the entire playerbase, not just one side of it. -which is, I feel, why it's took so long for Nintendo to even seemingly acknowledge that Sheik and ZSS need nerfs. There's only so much the competitive scene can say before it overflows into the casual scene and people start to get irritated, and I feel that that time is starting to dawn on us. It was the same with Diddy - so many people picked up the hoo-hah they had to just do something about it. -and while Sheik/ZSS don't have anything that particularly broken, I do think the people patching the game are atleast aware of the strengths of these characters, and that it's starting to overflow into the casual scene, as seen by the recent (arguably minor) nerfs to their most notable KO moves.

...Let's just hope that the opposite is true of Samus, and that enough people want to play as her for her to warrant a buff.

 

[White_Pointer]

Nintendo doesn't collect data from tournament games. It may highlight a few things that need to be fixed, but most balance changes stem from online data. The highest priority games they use are the win rates from For Glory 1v1.

We don't know this for sure though, nobody from Nintendo has said this is what they do. Diddy got his nerfs but even at the time, he was hardly dominating FG. Other characters in a similar situation to Samus on FG have received buffs too.

I agree that Samus likely won't receive buffs if we ever get another patch, but not for the reasons you stated. I believe she won't get buffs simply because the Smash 4 team doesn't think she needs them.

 

[IsmaR]

The universal absorption nerf (G&W's bucket, Ness/Lucas PSI Magnet, Villager's Pocket) for doubles alone proves the balance team looks are more than just online modes, seeing as how For Glory Teams doesn't have Team Attack on.

Either way, while it is a shame we likely will never get a few fixes that we could really use, we could also definitely be much worse off (more than a handful of characters desperately "need" buffs arguably more than we do). We also never know for sure whether we'll get any patch in the future, miracle "fix" for us or otherwise. Until anything gets confirmed, use either the current patch thread (1.1.4) or the sticky'd Samus social/general discussion if you want to continue discussing this.