why is peach considered a falcon counter?

[Elrodillazo]

hey im a falcon player and i heard in a lot of places that peach is a counter to falcon i wanna ask peach players why?xif an awesome peach told me that they are even so i wanna know your opinions

 

[BigRick]

It's cause ppl like the word counter too much. Simple as that.

Btw, did you hear that Big Rick counters counters?

 

[Elrodillazo]

nope :D:Da

 

[slikvik]

Its not a counter. Xif was right. The match is even

 

[Savedge]

well she can do lame **** on FD... against falcon including chain grabs and abusing his recoverey ... and of course there is always dream land... she owns that ****.. but on poke falcon deff has the advantage .. it all just depends.. i guiess it mostly comes down to the chain grabs

 

[Pat/Pro]

Having no projectiles or sword against peach is a disadvantage. CF is one of the few players that is forced to combat peach directly. Also he cant kill up which is peaches weakness. But there are alot of reasons, but I would consider its a 60 - 40 in peaches favor.

Below was written by someone else but it has some other good points.

"Let's see... Peach can chainthrow CF. Peach can CC => dsmash practically anything but a perfectly spaced NAIR. Peach has projectiles. CF cannot recover against a good Peach, at any percent, ever, and it's very easy for her to knock CF off the stage. CF, on the other hand, has difficulty edgeguarding Peach because of the ridiculous priority of the parasol and the fact that she can float back absurdly high. So what can CF do? CF can combo Peach pretty well, but if you don't get a knee before 100ish it can be hard to finish her off."

 

[slikvik]

CF can combo Peach pretty well, but if you don't get a knee before 100ish it can be hard to finish her off."

A good CF doesnt usually have trouble landing a knee. Plus a D-throw into a knee is guaranteed after a certain percentage.

 

[Elrodillazo]

yeah but getting her out of the stage is hard

 

[slikvik]

Because he has a reliable KO move, that doesnt matter

 

[DeathByTurnips]

Basically because of the fact that hes a Heavy char, which leads to a few things

1.Falcons get murdered by her D-Smash
2.He can be Chaingrabbed easily
3.His recovery can be easily stopped by her D-Smash
4.....He's a heavy char, which is bad for all chars vs. Peach (ya i kno i said that...but not with a number! XD)

 

[Shai Hulud]

A good CF doesnt usually have trouble landing a knee. Plus a D-throw into a knee is guaranteed after a certain percentage.

It's guaranteed for a certain RANGE of percentages. Past a certain point, you can't dthrow => knee.

Peach is lame. That is all.

 

[Pat/Pro]

Basically because of the fact that hes a Heavy char, which leads to a few things

1.Falcons get murdered by her D-Smash
2.He can be Chaingrabbed easily
3.His recovery can be easily stopped by her D-Smash
4.....He's a heavy char, which is bad for all chars vs. Peach (ya i kno i said that...but not with a number! XD)

I dont think him being a heavy character matters considering those dont effect samus and he is heavier.

 

[Shai Hulud]

I dont think him being a heavy character matters considering those dont effect samus and he is heavier.

I think by "heavy" he means "fast-faller." There is really no "weight" value in Smash. There's knockback and there's fall-speed, and the two are mostly unrelated.

 

[technomancer]

Peach vs. Falcon is **** in both directions. You can't dsmash a good Falcon, really ever, it's too slow and sets Falcon up for easy combos, like stomp -> knee and Stomp->stomp->tech-chase grab->dthrow uair knee falcon kick. Peach's biggest thing is her grab, but again grabs are tough against a good Falcon because his nair has slim lag and good range, and that's his main approach/spam at you. Falcon can also effectively deal with Turnips (by kneeing you out of the turnip pull, and blocking with usmash) and really isn't phased by your float because of his speed in the air. His grab game on Peach is sexy too, but Peach's grab game is also **** and gay and all of her gay stuff works fine on falcon, so it's even and comes down to the mindgraines.

And of course there is weight! Falcon is less heavy than the fatties, but still heavier than average by a good bit. Weight reduces knockback in all directions. He's also the 3rd fastest faller, but falls at the same top speed as Fox, just accelerates slower.

 

[Lixivium]

hey im a falcon player and i heard in a lot of places that peach is a counter to falcon i wanna ask peach players why?xif an awesome peach told me that they are even so i wanna know your opinions

Because all of Peach's moves go through all of Falcon's moves.

 

[AlphaZealot]

I hate the Falcon versus Peach matchup, Peach is just to slow to keep up with really good Falcons or even just moderately good Falcons. I think the matchup is 55-45 in Falcons favor, all Peach really has over him is 1)CG which gets negated with stage bans 2)edge guarding. Falcon's knees are just to good, I usually switch to Doc for the matchup.

 

[Jihnsius]

Something else commonly overlooked in this matchup: Peach's dashattack ***** Falcon from low to mid-higher percents. It can be chained a few times, and opens up for a DJC fAir or nAir at almost any percent.

 

[Shai Hulud]

I hate the Falcon versus Peach matchup, Peach is just to slow to keep up with really good Falcons or even just moderately good Falcons. I think the matchup is 55-45 in Falcons favor, all Peach really has over him is 1)CG which gets negated with stage bans 2)edge guarding. Falcon's knees are just to good, I usually switch to Doc for the matchup.

Isn't Falcon supposed to be a Doc counter? I'm so confused...

 

[slikvik]

If the falcon sucks, a peach player at the same level would have the advantage. At higher levels of play, the match-up pretty even. Like Alphazealot said, it might be a little more in falcons favor. Def not a counter

 

[Dark.Pch]

This Match can be pretty enough, or one character can have a slight advantage over the other. If 2 Peach and Falcon players of the same level Battle, it can go ether way. here is my imput on this match up.

What Falcon has on Peach:

-His speed, a Good speedy Falcon can be hard to catch and with the right mindgames, He cant bait Peach to attack and leave herself open.

-The fact that Peach is a floaty and can be combed easy, Faclon can combo her pretty back in the air. and with the wrong DI, Peach is in trouble.

-Falcon can kill her at low percent (ether with combos or one powerful attack) with the wrong DI. or even if they DI correct, this can still happen. depends on %

- is able to chain grab her. depends on DI and %

- If timed, his aerials can beat hers. (N-air mostly)


What Peach has on Falcon:

-Chain grab to death

-Her Dtilt can start up some brutal combos on falcon cause of him being a fast faller. can also lead to chain grab.

- She can abuse him when off the stage with her turnips and her FC techs. She is a fierce edge guarder on Falcon. if the Peach really ones what do expect and how to edge guard well, slight chance he will return on stage.

-Good FC techs can abuse him bad. since he is a fastfaller. like Dtilt, FC to N-air, Dash attack. If the dash attack raises him up, Up-air, Up air again(if possible) Up-B, Hit with the Tip of the move (do it again if possible) Fast Fall to Dsmash.(or D-tilt again if you want and think you can start another combo)If the dash pushes him back, if possibe get another, then react fast to what he will do after (most likely fall or tech in place)

- her turnips can reduce his speed on the feel which can make this kinda hard for Falcon to get a hold of her. and Peach can also start combos with her turnip



Both Peach and Falcon can abuse each other on the same level. To me this fight is even. but if it had to come out as how has a lil more advantage. It would be Falcon cause of his speed and Peach is slow. but, this fight is Pretty much even if Both players know what they are doing they are doing.

 

[Fonz]

I think by "heavy" he means "fast-faller." There is really no "weight" value in Smash. There's knockback and there's fall-speed, and the two are mostly unrelated.

Uhhh...there most certainly is a weight value in smash. There is also a fall speed value, the 2 are indepedent. Captain falcon is on the heavy side, and one of the fastest fallers. Bowser is the heaviest. Look up M2K's statlist, it has a full listing of character weights for you =)

 

[K1T3]

Also dislike the matchup... I really don't see peach having an advantage at higher levels of play. Falcon just ***** her too easily and it's too hard to catch him with peach. I usually switch to sheik for this match up.

 

[Shai Hulud]

Uhhh...there most certainly is a weight value in smash. There is also a fall speed value, the 2 are indepedent. Captain falcon is on the heavy side, and one of the fastest fallers. Bowser is the heaviest. Look up M2K's statlist, it has a full listing of character weights for you =)

Well you can call them "weight" values but it's not a meaningful use of the word "weight" as weight is a measure of gravitational attraction. I prefer to think of the "weight" as knockback values, but it's really all semantics.

 

[Fonz]

No. You are mistaken. Weight is not gravitational attraction, its directly related to your mass. Weight = Mass X Gravity, where gravity is constantly. We can even say gravity is constant in smash, just very high levels of wind resistance =P

Go to MK1, put bowser on one of the little platforms that falls when you stand on it and have jiggly stand on the other, guess which way bowser goes, up or down? You can also have fox stand on the other instead of jiggly. Fox falls faster than jiggly and bowser, but he will still go up because he is lighter. Its not semantics, smash has weight. Bowser gets sent less distance from the same moves that ylink does, and they have similar fast fall speeds (ylink falls slightly faster).

This link may be helpful
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30064

 

[Doll]

From my exp, this match up is even.

Falcon has speed, fast kill move over peach.

Peach has turnips, cg, easy edge guard against him.

Sometimes it's really about whoever get their grab in first.

And i don't know what ppl are saying about dthrow to knee being able to escape after a certain percentage, Greg throws me from 135% and I'd still die.

But then again, I do get spike by Roy's upsmash so don't listen to me.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

I'd agree with all dark peach said, very good points.

 

[slikvik]

lol at doll. i want my peach ditto at pound2. o yea, peach is def not a falcon counter

 

[Doll]

lol at doll. i want my peach ditto at pound2. o yea, peach is def not a falcon counter

!! <3 yay hope to see you there :D! I'll peach ditto you as much as you want.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Peach ***** CF in lower level play. At high level play CF's ridiculous strengths begin to show and this match up becomes even, or perhaps a slight advantage for CF.

CF is too quick for ground based offense to be effective. I prefer spacing in the air, which also prevents you from getting wrecked by grabs.

 

[Dark.Pch]

its true, they are air born alot, that how they start the ****., if you can read his movement, Up-B hi. to Dtilt or Dsmash. Hit him with a N-air or up air, throw turnips in the air, then he is limit to the ground, if you slow him down in both air and ground, you have gain a high chance of winning then falcon. But Yes, they love the air, use use that as a mindgame and thing of something to stop all of that

 

[BigRick]

Peach ***** CF in lower level play. At high level play CF's ridiculous strengths begin to show and this match up becomes even, or perhaps a slight advantage for CF.

CF is too quick for ground based offense to be effective. I prefer spacing in the air, which also prevents you from getting wrecked by grabs.

Yup this matchup is naturally difficult for me, since I play more of a ground based defensive style.

I find myself playing very unnaturaly in this matchup, very agressive and trying to stuff Falcon before he can **** me. In a tournament setting I usually switch to Sheik when facing Falcon.

 

[Tlatoani]

Because of Nair. Peach's Nair just owns the aerial play of C. Falcon, that plus chain grabbing and edge guarding gives Peach the advantage in my opinion.

 

[Jihnsius]

Dash attack! It opens up for a grab, bair, nair, fair, whatever. Dash attacks owns Falcon hardcore.

 

[Cups]

This is kind of off topic, but it seems like Falcon doesn't really have a counter or is a counter for anybody. It really just depends on the skill of the player. I'm not denying counters for other characters, I just don't see any real strengths or weaknesses against anybody as Falcon, it's all about who can get the combos off. I mean sure, Sheik's tilts kind of combo the hell out of Falcon, but gets comboed by Up airs well. The same goes for Marth and Nairs. I guess Fox has a pretty good advantage, but dies very easily from a knee at like 50 or 60, so it kind of balances out. Seems like Falcon ***** or gets *****.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Magus420]

It's guaranteed for a certain RANGE of percentages. Past a certain point, you can't dthrow => knee.

It's not guaranteed at all at any percentages if you DI the throw correctly. Around the usual %s you would be getting d-throw to knee'd there's a good 1/10 second you can doublejump into an airdodge. Also, you'd want to airdodge away and not towards them. Part of the reason it doesn't work is you go too far for them to catch you in the throw stun. You're not invincible immediately after starting the dodge, but you do move further out of range immediately after initiating it. Dodging into them can sometimes put you in range before you become invincible. If you use all 4 buttons to do so it's not too hard to do. The tougher part is getting the DI off in time if they get an unexpected grab and throw you immediately. Granted they can place the knee later at the end of your dodge if they expect it, or regrab you, but it does make it more of a guessing game than a set autocombo since you could also n-air them instead if they do that. Actually, you can n-air either way, but it'll sometimes trade hits which you don't want to do at high damage. If you n-air you can use both A and Z to get it off ASAP easier.