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Why is Fox considered a bad match-up for peach?

Who is better in the Fox vs. Peach matchup?


  • Total voters
    40

Dominus Felis

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
102
Location
Oklahoma
Here's a list of advantages peach has over Fox.

1. Peach is so good at edge-guarding Fox, so gimping is very easy against middle-lower skill levels.
2. Peach is only killed by drillshine up-smash by Fox, most of the time.
3. Good Peaches can time up+b's to counter shine-spikes.
4. U-throw chaingrabs, guaranteed on FD.

Disadvantages

1. Drill-shines builds percent, and leads to kill up-smash
2. Up-throw up-air can build lots of percent.
3. If the peach is not good, shine spiking is scary, but does not cancel a float.
 

Doublecork

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 4, 2014
Messages
82
Location
Chicago. Illinois
1- Fox kills quickly off the top
2- Peach is forced to approach because of lasers
4- Peach has no solid approach options against Fox
5- Peach is easy to waveshine
6- Peach shield pressure is denied by Fox's upsmash oos
7- Peach is not able to keep up with Fox's ground mobility; Fox can get in very easily on Peach
8- Did I mention up smash? If not, I'll mention it again.

Numbers 1-3 are the most important in my opinion.
 

Dominus Felis

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
102
Location
Oklahoma
1- Fox kills quickly off the top
2- Peach is forced to approach because of lasers
4- Peach has no solid approach options against Fox
5- Peach is easy to waveshine
6- Peach shield pressure is denied by Fox's upsmash oos
7- Peach is not able to keep up with Fox's ground mobility; Fox can get in very easily on Peach
8- Did I mention up smash? If not, I'll mention it again.

Numbers 1-3 are the most important in my opinion.
Like I said, lasers don't force peach to approach, if anything it will not do much but give peach the neutral advantage, except on dreamland where peach won't die anyways.

1. Okay, up-smash gets CC, up-airs can be SDI'd
2. No. Laser camping gives peach the advantage in the approach
No 3 wasn't mentioned
4. How about waiting for fox to aproach?
5. Okay, I'll give you that one
6. Not if your shield breaks.
7. Okay, this is truth for Peach in every MU.
8. Umm, up-smash can be CC'd. I will admit waveshine up-smash kills peach pretty consistently.
 

Doublecork

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 4, 2014
Messages
82
Location
Chicago. Illinois
lol forgot 3. anyway, CC an upsmash is not as easy as it sounds on paper. it takes a lot of reaction speed to do it consistently, which is why it isnt done often. it is impractical to sit in a crouch waiting for an upsmash. sdi on the up air is difficult. peach most definitely does not have the advantage in the neutral. shield breaking doesnt happen often enough for it to be considered part of the matchup in my opinion. fox never has to approach peach, he can laser until a ridiculous percent. mango and leffen both never approach armada, they just laser until he has to approach.

fox can just outmaneuver peach in a way that makes the matchup extremely difficult. along with this, a guaranteed kill set up (drillshine), a good projectile for camping, and excellent ko potential make fox a difficult matchup for peach.
 

Limbo

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
6
Location
Monterrey, Mexico
Drill shine, while powerful, has been proven to be very SDI'able. Some foxes still do it often, but are mostly unaware or inexperienced with players with good smash DI, or simply do it as a mixup here and there. Nowadays the strat vs peach has been changing a lot thanks to the defensive power of peach, and good foxes tend to play more campy than usual. This is just assuming that the player skill level is equal such that the fox can't just overwhelm peach in the neutral game and upsmash her for days.

The reason peach struggles so much vs fox is mostly because fox can outrun peach, laser her during low %s and fish out kills with bair,uair or upsmash (especially upthrow uair which can kill peach starting at around 50-70% depending on stages, IF the peach doesnt SDI the upair). On top of that, he has very easy waveshine strings unless the peach smash DI's those, and even then the fox may be able to follow up and finish with an upsmash. Good peaches should be able to know how to avoid the shine spikes, but those are as much of a threat to peach as they are to marth or sheik. Peach heavily relies on zoning out the fox and getting as much punish % as she can off of a few hits, but due to the speed disadvantage, it may be pretty hard for peach to land those hits safely.

Peach's punish game is so strong that 1 hit is potentially a stock vs spacies. Armada shows that very often as he climbs his way to grand finals. However a fox with a good presence of mind knows how to SDI some of the early combos, and knows that he must keep the lasers on peach, and slowly build up the % until the fox can go for upthrow uair kills or raw bair into edgeguards. It's a volatile matchup for sure if the peach is fast, just like the marth matchup. But due to peach's naturally slow movement, it takes a good player to make her fast, and a lot of peaches tend to lose the match simply because the fox is much much faster and dictates the rhythm of the match.

In the fox's mindset, the game plan is to shoot lasers, get dmg whenever peach lets him (let it be shffl aerials + waveshines or whatnot) and get her to 60-70% where the fox can finish the kill with an upthrow upair or upsmash at around 90%. Beyond that he may be able to simply bair peach off the stage and keep edgeguarding until she dies.
 

MisterCTM

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
111
Location
Joppa, Maryland
3DS FC
0387-9736-6460
he has very easy waveshine strings unless the peach smash DI's those
Waveshines are guarenteed if the fox doesn't mess up. Your best bet is to CC the shine and pray to the smash gods that the fox messes up the waveshine, and hope to get a nair or dsmash before they do the next shine.
 

MisterCTM

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
111
Location
Joppa, Maryland
3DS FC
0387-9736-6460
Can someone elaborate on the specifics of using SDI when being drill shined?
SDI toward the back of the fox during the drill, so that the shine will send you backwards (or just miss) and hopefully the fox won't be expecting that and won't follow up correct. If you're talking about SDI'ing the shine, SDI forward (away from the fox toward the front) and hopefully be able to get away. Waveshine is legit if the fox does it right, as I said above, and no amount of SDI is gonna save you from that. If there were some magical way to get away from waveshine, why are people like armada getting waveshined?
 
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