Why is everyone just jumping on the Lucina is better than Marth Band Wagon?

[Wraeith]

http://smashboards.com/threads/marth-totally-has-awesome-hair.227939/

Way ahead of you

Spoiler

#TeamL'Oréal #ForAltea #ShiidaForever #KingMarthForSmash20XX #SakuraiPlz

Source

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

If the hair is what made Marth better than why didn't you guys just say so?

Okay, fair enough. Marth wins.

 

[MarthFanatique]

I would assume that this Lucina>Marth fad is based off of a few factors.

--Lucina seems to cater more towards casual players due to the lack of Marth's tipper mechanic.
--On the 3DS version, I can't speak from experience (waiting for the Wii U version) but people tend to complain not only about lag, but also the controls and the screen. As we all know from Brawl, landing a tipper on Brawl's online was...an irksome task. Considering the 3DS's lag is allegedly worse (again, I'm going on what I've heard on the boards here), and a smaller screen, and the unfamiliar control scheme on the 3DS, I can completely understand why Lucina would be considered "better" or at the very least an "easier" character. Just my two cents.

 

[Folt]

Having tried out Marth for a while, I'm sure now that Marth will be the better swordman of the two. Lucina's consistency simply does not make up for the early KOs that Marth enables and his key moves and techniques are simply safer if the opponent shields them.

(Also, testing Marth and Lucina's vertical sword range really helped me see that Marth indeed possess a better vertical reach than Lucina.)

 

[Random4811]

I would assume that this Lucina>Marth fad is based off of a few factors.

--Lucina seems to cater more towards casual players due to the lack of Marth's tipper mechanic.
--On the 3DS version, I can't speak from experience (waiting for the Wii U version) but people tend to complain not only about lag, but also the controls and the screen. As we all know from Brawl, landing a tipper on Brawl's online was...an irksome task. Considering the 3DS's lag is allegedly worse (again, I'm going on what I've heard on the boards here), and a smaller screen, and the unfamiliar control scheme on the 3DS, I can completely understand why Lucina would be considered "better" or at the very least an "easier" character. Just my two cents.

From what I've played so far, 3DS's online is about ten hundred times more enjoyable than Brawls. I literally never had a playable match on Brawl's online. 3DS's is more than playable, its functioning. Laggy at times, sure. But I have only had a few small occasions where lag was unbearable. Even online, I continue to uphold that a good Marth beats out a good Lucina 10 times out of 9.

 

[Moydow]

Even online, I continue to uphold that a good Marth beats out a good Lucina 10 times out of 9.

wow, you really don't rate Lucina's chances

Online is far better here than on Brawl. Even with lag and 3DS controls I've had fairly few problems landing tippers. I've used Marth and Lucina almost equally online (about 300 matches with both), and as has been said enough times, Marth is going to be the better choice if you're good at landing tippers. Lucina is just the easier of the two to pick up and play, due to the lack of tipper. She also is a more popular character than Marth, coming off the popularity of Awakening, so maybe that's part of it - people want her to be better than Marth, so they're trying to see something that isn't there.

 

[warionumbah2]

I find Marth to be stronger overall in game or in canon, i actually prefer Marth since the difficulty in using him is higher and you gain higher rewards from mastering him.

Was down by one stock with 139% against some Link spammer he got impatient and went for a f smash, then i killed him at 90% with that epic tipper effect if i was Lucina i would've lost.

Marth has better reach due to height differences,better at gimping due to tipper and kills faster. Good thing about Lucina is that she's easier to pick up.

 

[Altais]

Marth definitely took me some time to get used to, as he just felt very sluggish compared to his Melee counterpart. But, now that I have gotten the hang of him, I have found Marth to be a very enjoyable character to use.

Since she is much easier to pick up, I originally favoured Lucina. And, Lucina is efficient in that you don't have to rely on the tip of the sword. But, the longer I practised with Lucina, the easier it became for me to use Marth effectively. Now, I like both Marth and Lucina equally.

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

Honestly a good player vs a good player, would win since any good player with him will take advantage of the tippers and use it to kill and build up damage a lot quicker. Besides Marth has more range than Lucina. The strangest thing I have noticed about Lucina players is they always seem to be good at spacing and hit with the tip of her sword, so why don't they use Marth? If you are good at spacing then do they not use ? He rewards good spacing,but doesn't really reward it.

 

[Wraeith]

I believe this may have been covered before but I'd like a couple more opinions for assurance as I can't test it myself. Happened across this thread on Reddit recently that states some differences between Marth/Lucina's attack speeds, perhaps most noticeably Dancing Blade. This is just placebic and confirmation bias, or is there some truth to the differences?

 

[Satan-]

I believe this may have been covered before but I'd like a couple more opinions for assurance as I can't test it myself. Happened across this thread on Reddit recently that states some differences between Marth/Lucina's attack speeds, perhaps most noticeably Dancing Blade. This is just placebic and confirmation bias, or is there some truth to the differences?

It's either placebo or people are lying due to their fanboyism. Either way it's not true or has not been confirmed yet and is extremely likely to be false.

 

[Wraeith]

It's either placebo or people are lying due to their fanboyism. Either way it's not true or has not been confirmed yet and is extremely likely to be false.

Yeah that's what I was thinking, a lot of people on Reddit seem highly biased and struck with favoritism, though I'd certainly like some of veterans who'd be able to tell the difference if it existed just by merit of having played Marth for many generations of games.

 

[Shaya]

http://smashboards.com/threads/before-you-ask-the-differences-between-marth-and-lucina.376180/

 

[Moydow]

http://smashboards.com/threads/before-you-ask-the-differences-between-marth-and-lucina.376180/

yeah. It's unfortunate, but this thread was needed. It's getting kinda embarrasing seeing the same junk pop up every day on the Lucina board.

 

[MitoRequiem]

From my experiences(Hell this is even irl lol) The only people that have jumped on the "Lucina is better than Marth bandwagon" is idiots saying "LOL xDDD CAUSE LUCINA IS A GIRL MARTH GIRLY MAN" and the FE fans that have played Awakening as their first FE so they have become attached to Lucina cause they probably married her or some ****~ I don't see like any facts or a simple "Hey I just like this character more than that character" lol(Granted I didn't read up I'm just blindly posting)

But yeah, I dunno right now? I think it's easier to get kills with Lucina online cause based lag~ some people say Lucina is better even offline cause of 3DS limitations blahblahblah don't have to be precise which is sorta true I guess? imo I think you still need to space a bit to be a good Lucina. After playing about 300 games total with both characters you cannot just turn your brain off and rushdown opponents as Lucina just doesn't work, but imo Marth will end up on top and I know it may look bias but trust me I'm not being bias!!

 

[mourir]

Nothing beats hitting those tips .
My motto. "Marth: just the tip"

 

[warionumbah2]

Lucina players tend to be full blown anime weaboo's who circle jerk over fire emblem awakening that caters to the anime community with these pairing bull. Only reason to touch lucina is if you suck at landing tippers (mostly true) or you like her character, Marth is better than her in every way it's a fact and the game hasn't been out for long

 

[EternalFlame]

Lucina players tend to be full blown anime weaboo's who circle jerk over fire emblem awakening that caters to the anime community with these pairing bull. Only reason to touch lucina is if you suck at landing tippers (mostly true) or you like her character, Marth is better than her in every way it's a fact and the game hasn't been out for long

As tempting as it is to refute your statement, I'll just simply ask that we let this subject die out already. We all know fundamentally Marth is stronger than Lucina, but that is no excuse to stereotype people who choose to use her.

We're not here to create hate for a character nor a person's preference for a character; we're here to discuss the competitive extent of the characters we choose. So instead of making another big deal out of a topic thoroughly discussed and debated on for a month now, let's just leave it to people to pick who they wish.

 

[warionumbah2]

If I said 'all' then you have the right to tell me off about stereotyping but I said 'tend' meaning not all, can't refute what I have observed mate.

 

[EternalFlame]

If I said 'all' then you have the right to tell me off about stereotyping but I said 'tend' meaning not all, can't refute what I have observed mate.

Nor can you ignore the point you made to say tend, which still stereotypes and gives people the wrong opinion of the average Lucina players. To say tend is to suggest it is the norm that Lucina players are weeboos, and that anyone outside of it is the exception (such assumptions have a negative undertone). You could have just easily said they were fans of fire emblem awakening and left it at that. A lot of meaning can be misinterpretted by the words you used, especially when it is text only and no tone nor context is involved. Perhaps it was not your intention, but the choice of words are problematic, and people got the point of Marth being fundamentally better back when it was being discussed a month ago already.

Though saying they lack the skill to use tippers could not possibly be misinterpretted as anything positive. Lucina is for consistency, and some have chosen that consistency over early kill potential. Realistically, not every swing will be a tipper, and some simply gravitate to not having to worry about it. I could explain this further, but there are other threads for that. Marth is fundamentally stronger, yes, but that does not make playing Lucina meaningless or fruitless.

One person's observation does not make it fact. Even what is on here is but a fraction of an entire community of players. All that can be made fact is the data we recieve on characters, and the fundamental differences. This does not extend to the players personal preferences, for whatever reason it may be. The reason I'm speaking like this in the first place is simply that I don't wish people to see Lucina with the negative frames you placed her in. Remember that your post is not just seen by a handful of people, but dozens of players from all over the place. A negative image, whether implied or not, can go a long way for a lot of people and can cause more harm than good. Observations like this should be reserved to those who know you, otherwise you can expect people like me to get on your case for it.

Now I'll ask one more time that we please let this subject die? If you want to debate your position more, you can bring it to me in a PM (Conversation). But please, let this thread go down so people can decide for themselves without the negative frames that are not entirely true and could be taken the wrong way.

EDIT: Anyone else that wants to understand the character differences, please go to Shaya's thread below:
http://smashboards.com/threads/before-you-ask-the-differences-between-marth-and-lucina.376180/

Otherwise, let's all leave player biases towards other players alone.

 

[P. O. F.]

lol.

I read this thread and all i see are soooo many people who do not understand smash at a high level, people trolling with dumbass pictures, and a bunch of other useless jargin.

Marth IS better than Lucina because BOTH CHARACTERS NEED to space. You can't go in with Lucina or Marth at all. If you are winning with Lucina more its because you landed a lucky random f smash on a BAD player and got the kill earlier. A GOOD Marth VS a GOOD lucina.....The Marth is going to win because Marth kills earlier if played correctly.

Both Lucina and Marth are NOT offensive or aggressive characters at all. They are mid range footsie based characters similar to how Fei Long and Balrog are played in SF4.

Some findings:

Forward B is still viable and really good but only as a punish tool. I've been playing Marth similar to Brawl (I played him in Melee too) and this Marth is definitely more so Brawl based.

His throws are ass just like they mostly were in Brawl too. It's all about u air, u tilt, and Forward B in this game for damage racking and dropzone and of course f smash for your kills. U tilt at early percents is good if you can catch it because it can lead to tippered F smash. This also applies for SH uairs as well. Ideally I like to play a mix up game between u throw to chase for uairs by means of double uair or wait till they double spot dodge and go for u tilt when i fall just before they do after fast fall and catch them there. Mixing this up with throws when they land (old school brawl stuff) and resetting the situation is pretty viable.

Overall right now, i feel like Marth kind of sucks. I look at Mario, Sheik, Shulk, (he has the best spacing ijn the game i think) zero suit and rosalina and i just lol at marth.

Personally, I think Smash 4 is Brawl but just faster.

I also feel Donkey Kong is secretly really good. He kills soooooo quickly and has an amazing throw and tilt game and thats the biggest problem with this game right now. So many characters struggle for viable kills.

 

[warionumbah2]

whatever eternal volcano deposit. Let's leave this thread to die by replying to me again.oh and the guy above me you mentioned mario who is like Marth wack compared to his brawl and melee incarnations.

 

[MitoRequiem]

I still to this day think Smash4 is like SFIV of the series, Where it's fairly balanced everyone has a chance to win a tournament you just have to work harder with said character or play by the matchup. Saying Marth sucks isn't really saying much when it comes to this game imo lol. It's like saying Gen sucks(shout outs to Gen for winning EVO2013 btw) I think there will be some killers out there eventually for Marth. I myself plan to visit super dojo and get my **** together with Marth and Palutena I'm excited~

but yeah looking at my old post it was totally fueled by rage my bad lol, I played all 13 FE games and I have to deal with a ton of Lucina friends online and offline so that frustration kinda generated to the character >.> with that being said like previous posters have said you indeed need spacing to be good with both characters.

When I see a "good" Lucina space and what not and they hit with the tip of the sword I'm thinking "lol why not play Marth" but I guess it comes down to being a character loyalist which I respect a lot~ play the character you love imo, Unless it's Deejay or Mr. Game and Watch then you need to knock it off.

 

[EternalFlame]

lol.

I read this thread and all i see are soooo many people who do not understand smash at a high level, people trolling with ******* pictures, and a bunch of other useless jargin.

Marth IS better than Lucina because BOTH CHARACTERS NEED to space. You can't go in with Lucina or Marth at all. If you are winning with Lucina more its because you landed a lucky random f smash on a BAD player and got the kill earlier. A GOOD Marth VS a GOOD lucina.....The Marth is going to win because Marth kills earlier if played correctly.

Both Lucina and Marth are NOT offensive or aggressive characters at all. They are mid range footsie based characters similar to how Fei Long and Balrog are played in SF4.

Some findings:

Forward B is still viable and really good but only as a punish tool. I've been playing Marth similar to Brawl (I played him in Melee too) and this Marth is definitely more so Brawl based.

His throws are *** just like they mostly were in Brawl too. It's all about u air, u tilt, and Forward B in this game for damage racking and dropzone and of course f smash for your kills. U tilt at early percents is good if you can catch it because it can lead to tippered F smash. This also applies for SH uairs as well. Ideally I like to play a mix up game between u throw to chase for uairs by means of double uair or wait till they double spot dodge and go for u tilt when i fall just before they do after fast fall and catch them there. Mixing this up with throws when they land (old school brawl stuff) and resetting the situation is pretty viable.

Overall right now, i feel like Marth kind of sucks. I look at Mario, Sheik, Shulk, (he has the best spacing ijn the game i think) zero suit and rosalina and i just lol at marth.

Personally, I think Smash 4 is Brawl but just faster.

I also feel Donkey Kong is secretly really good. He kills soooooo quickly and has an amazing throw and tilt game and thats the biggest problem with this game right now. So many characters struggle for viable kills.

@ P. O. F. , your points have already been elaborated on this very thread, and we have threads for talking about the findings and your opinion on Marth for you to post it on. Everyone should be in agreement by now at least, that Marth is fundamentally stronger than Lucina as they currently are. There can be more debates about this subject, especially with the good Marth vs good Lucina, because you're assuming a mistake on Lucina's part and not on Marth's (especially since Marth has the sour spot mistakes that a good player could make use of). It's really hard to tell what kind of standard of good you're going for, if not from the bias of Marth's good being better than Lucina's good. The person to err factor will always be there. If it were just two AI characters fighting, I can understand your point - otherwise, we're all just going in circles here.

I just find this funny since I'm guessing you're trolling given all of this. Appologies if it's the contrary, but Shaya already has a post outlining exactly the differences between Marth and Lucina based on data and such. It's even sticked on the Lucina board in an effort to stop this topic and many like it from repeatedly coming back. The same points have been said, and if you really did read this post, then you should understand that this simply needs to end already (otherwise this Lucina bandwagon will only become the Marth superiority bandwagon, and that's no better). I may be speaking only for myself, but I believe we all want a sense of finality with this subject and just let people decide who they want to play given the data on both characters.

@ Shaya , I leave the rest to you at this point ^^" Trying to leave it on a more constructive note doesn't seem to be working anymore, and I sense it's only going to get worse from here on out. But I'll trust your judgement on this matter and get onto other things.

 

[Emblem Lord]

lol.

I read this thread and all i see are soooo many people who do not understand smash at a high level, people trolling with ******* pictures, and a bunch of other useless jargin.

Marth IS better than Lucina because BOTH CHARACTERS NEED to space. You can't go in with Lucina or Marth at all. If you are winning with Lucina more its because you landed a lucky random f smash on a BAD player and got the kill earlier. A GOOD Marth VS a GOOD lucina.....The Marth is going to win because Marth kills earlier if played correctly.

Both Lucina and Marth are NOT offensive or aggressive characters at all. They are mid range footsie based characters similar to how Fei Long and Balrog are played in SF4.

Some findings:

Forward B is still viable and really good but only as a punish tool. I've been playing Marth similar to Brawl (I played him in Melee too) and this Marth is definitely more so Brawl based.

His throws are *** just like they mostly were in Brawl too. It's all about u air, u tilt, and Forward B in this game for damage racking and dropzone and of course f smash for your kills. U tilt at early percents is good if you can catch it because it can lead to tippered F smash. This also applies for SH uairs as well. Ideally I like to play a mix up game between u throw to chase for uairs by means of double uair or wait till they double spot dodge and go for u tilt when i fall just before they do after fast fall and catch them there. Mixing this up with throws when they land (old school brawl stuff) and resetting the situation is pretty viable.

Overall right now, i feel like Marth kind of sucks. I look at Mario, Sheik, Shulk, (he has the best spacing ijn the game i think) zero suit and rosalina and i just lol at marth.

Personally, I think Smash 4 is Brawl but just faster.

I also feel Donkey Kong is secretly really good. He kills soooooo quickly and has an amazing throw and tilt game and thats the biggest problem with this game right now. So many characters struggle for viable kills.

When you mentioned SF4 I started paying attention then you said mario and i laughed.

Anyone with Marths ability to cover options the way he can cannot suck. He is one of the few chars that can legitimately force reactions on block with a poke thanks to d-tilt and his throws do what he needs them to do. Utilt for damage racking? lol no. That move has terrible recovery.

Not gonna deconstruct your post any further except to say if you think he sucks, why are you here? Not being constructive thats for certain.

 

[ShadowMarth-JTW]

I can understand the hidden frustration going on here. Each person has their own level of knowledge, some contradicting each other. While others support each other. Fact of the matter is the game simply hasn't been out long enough for their to be a 100% solid awnser. What I always refer to as "textbook/foundation" playstyle isn't fully developed yet. I don't think their is anyone who has all the match-ups 110% down pack to provide us with that information. The play style I'm refering to would be thier basics/most efficient way of playing.
For an example In brawl, Marth as we all know rely's on walling with fairs, juggling, spacing, timing, ect..(Assuming we all already know how brawl marth works). We also knew how exactly to utilize these aspects because the match-ups had solid info and awnsers.

I say we all step back, clear our heads and tackle trying to "Correctly" confrim what is "Right" and what isn't. Otherwise we will be mindlessly arguing on somthing that could be better supported through action and results.