Why Brawl was the worst of them all

[Hipsty]

Now, don't get me wrong, I still think that Brawl was amazing, and I had lots of fun smashing in that game, but when you consider the game to it's predecessors and successors, it honestly lacks in alot of areas. Take this from a guy who firmly believes that Super Smash Brothers Melee was the best in the franchise. Lets start from the beginning shall we? Honestly, I never would have gotten into the whole energy that SSB still emulates today if it weren't for Melee. It was such an incredible step up comparing it to the original. More characters, stages, events. Overall, it felt like everything that was missing, was there. (And I'm not a person who judges a game by it's graphics, but damn Nintendo, that Gamecube was slick as hell) But when I look at Brawl when comparing it to Melee, it gave me what I wanted, but not what I didn't expect. Yes, Sonic and Snake's addition were cool, and all the Newcomers were great, but at it's core, it just felt, different. The game seemed way to focused on their story mode, rather than the multiplayer. And what kind of fighting game doesn't have multiplayer? And while the two player function for the story was kind of original and cool, the first player had the up-most amount of power, and the second player had to mainly follow behind. Brawl does offer alot more features, but at times I felt as if they were not necessary. I would rather fight Mewtwo, Ganondorf and Giga Bowser than try and collect every sticker. The multiplayer fighting was strongest in the game, unless you consider it's online capabilities. I also am not a gamer who judges a game by it's online functionality, but when a game focuses alot of their time and effort on their online, I expect some amount of play-ability I owned SSBB from the first day it came out, yet I had never played an online mode of Smash because my Wii just wouldn't connect to the servers. Brawl felt like a game, where the developers thought everything would run smoothly without errors, so they made the game without so many "check ups". Then, when the errors and bugs started to show, the developers just kind of cut corners and skipped important moments. And while this game came out first, when you compare Brawl, to Mario Kart Wii, a game that was very focused on multiplayer, it doesn't even stand up. Mario Kart Wii had it's share of problems, but Brawl's online was ruthless. I did think that the addition of the Final Smash was cool, but only for some specific characters. Some characters' final smashes would be so stupid and just kind of take the fun away from the powerup (Mr. Game and Watch/Jigglypuff) Plus the removal of Mewtwo always struck me hard. I understood the removal of Dr. Mario and Pichu as they were clone characters (Getting a little to close Ganondorf) but Mewtwo was an original character. And you can say "Oh they were trying to promote Lucario for the new Pokemon game" but Lucario is more of a clone of Mewtwo than anything else. The same goes for Ike and Roy. Have you ever played Project M with the two characters and felt like they were the same character? Well, I have. And look what started to come out after that happened: A new Fire Emblem game with Ike in it. WOW! THANKS! The same can be said about Pit, after Brawl was released Kid Icarus gets a new game for the 3DS. Honestly, I had never heard of Pit and Paluentina or anyone of that matter. Looking back, Brawl could have simply been a "test" to see what players really want from Nintendo. Nintendo knows that players want a new Smash, Mario Kart, Mario Game, Pokemon and Zelda, but they want to expand more and see what exactly their fans will play. It explains why there was so many damn Fire Emblem characters in the fourth edition of Smash. Nintendo is testing their demographic (because literally anyone plays Smash) and seeing how far fans will go to play a game with people they say from a fighting game. They have the same concept as Marvel. People go and see the ****ty movies like Thor 2 just so they can see how awesome The Avengers 2 will be. So now that I can compare Brawl to its successor, boy can I say that Brawl was a let down. The new Smash for Wii U is just so much better than the Brawl. It even comes close to being as good as Melee. With characters no one ever expected to be in a Smash, the game brings whole new courses, music, stages, items, single player modes and plenty more. All I know is that I would much rather be at a Melee tourney, versus a Brawl tourney.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

You lost me at "take this from a guy who firmly believes Melee was the best in the franchise". I don't need to know where your bias lies if you're trying to present a point.

Also I think Brawl is worse for more technical reasons. On a casual level and when it comes to the selectable cast, Brawl is most certainly a richer experience, however on a technical level it's so imbalanced and the randomity of certain aspects specifically tripping hinder it. It's also very slow and the physics cause it to be an overall hyper-defensive game which isn't as fun to play 1v1 or watch.

However Brawl really fumbled on a general level with its online. For being the first game of the series capable of having online, the mode completely fell flat, there was no real depth to it and it had some of the worst online connection problems in the entire Wii's online catalog, and that's really telling of a game which is from first-party.

Otherwise Brawl was honestly top notch and it's not giving the game enough credit to overlook what it managed to do.

 

[Kenith]

I can honestly say that Brawl is the superior party game to Melee. I like Melee's physics way better, but I can't deny all of the fun I've had with my friends in Brawl. The only thing that stopped me from playing Brawl was Smash 4.
Not to mention Melee's roster is kind of garbage compared to Brawl.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

Melee's roster is kinda garbage for a fighting game being played at a competitive level in general lately, but a lot of people don't want to admit that. It's a technical masterpiece almost by mistake, but its lack of a more diverse roster is annoying when you have stuff like Street Fighter, Marvel Vs Capcom and later Smash games boasting outstanding rosters of 30+ characters.

 

[Mean Green]

Some essay bro. Everyone thinks that.

 

[Hipsty]

Never really meant it to be an essay, more of a rant lol but thanks for all your constructive criticism! Have a good holiday everyone and keep smashing!

 

[Kenith]

My only issue with Brawl is tripping. Seriously, there's one thing I cannot stand in games, and that's when I feel like I am not in control when I should be. Bad controls create that feeling, constantly getting stopped creates that feeling, and tripping creates that feeling. I hate it. Even if it's due to an object or attack.

 

[C-SAF]

Melee's roster is kinda garbage for a fighting game being played at a competitive level in general lately, but a lot of people don't want to admit that. It's a technical masterpiece almost by mistake, but its lack of a more diverse roster is annoying when you have stuff like Street Fighter, Marvel Vs Capcom and later Smash games boasting outstanding rosters of 30+ characters.

I don't feel like melee's roster was that bad. If you look at mid tiers and up the character type diversity is actually pretty rich. Just sheer numbers your right, but I don't mind so much if what does exist is diverse.

 

[Hipsty]

I didn't really elaborate on that. In a way, I felt as if Brawl's controls were more jittery compared to Melee and the tripping played a part in that. For example, you could be just running with Luigi, and he would trip. I agree with you on that, tripping was stupid.

 

[Mean Green]

I don't feel like melee's roster was that bad. If you look at mid tiers and up the character type diversity is actually pretty rich. Just sheer numbers your right, but I don't mind so much if what does exist is diverse.

Agreed, it is very diverse as is. But I thought he was addressing the fact that there are a lot of non-viable characters, in addition to the smaller roster.

 

[C-SAF]

Agreed, it is very diverse as is. But I thought he was addressing the fact that there are a lot of non-viable characters, in addition to the smaller roster.

If its sheer number of non viable characters, then that's hardly a win for brawl. Metaknight and IC's are the only true viable characters, and only a handful after that can even compete. I only ever played brawl casually and I can say more fights started over people using metaknight than any other character in any other game I've played. And the bottom tiers in brawl are soooooo bad. Ganondorf mains everywhere rejoice for PM.

 

[Mean Green]

If its sheer number of non viable characters, then that's hardly a win for brawl. Metaknight and IC's are the only true viable characters, and only a handful after that can even compete. I only ever played brawl casually and I can say more fights started over people using metaknight than any other character in any other game I've played.

Yeah good point. Wasn't thinking lol.

And the bottom tiers in brawl are soooooo bad. Ganondorf mains everywhere rejoice for PM.

Former vanilla Brawl Falcon main right here lol. That's right, there's an N at the end of that word.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

I don't feel like melee's roster was that bad. If you look at mid tiers and up the character type diversity is actually pretty rich. Just sheer numbers your right, but I don't mind so much if what does exist is diverse.

The game has 6 clones, which an entire quarter of the roster, and then when you remove those you still have ~3 characters who aren't clones but are just generally bad (Kirby, Bowser, Ness being the major 3, YMMV on if any of the others deserve mention). That leaves about 15-16 characters that are somewhat decent, at least a bit diverse, in a 2001 fighting game that's somehow still going when only half of those are used on the top level.

I'm not saying it's the worst with this because there's definitely way worse out there, but I think it's worth noting this at least.

 

[Thor]

If its sheer number of non viable characters, then that's hardly a win for brawl. Metaknight and IC's are the only true viable characters, and only a handful after that can even compete. I only ever played brawl casually and I can say more fights started over people using metaknight than any other character in any other game I've played. And the bottom tiers in brawl are soooooo bad. Ganondorf mains everywhere rejoice for PM.

You forgot, at a minimum, Snake, Pikachu, and Diddy Kong. And ZSS (though they would have to surpass Salem in the ICs MU... dunno if Choco is good enough for that). Those are also viable characters.

I don't really think Olimar is, given his MK MU is not exactly great and his ICs MU is terrible, but many think it's not THAT bad.

Disagree with topic as a whole but I'm not gonna bother going into why because this would start a HUGE debate I really don't feel like getting into when it's been done forever. I will say I'm surprised this hasn't been locked already...

 

[C-SAF]

The game has 6 clones, which an entire quarter of the roster, and then when you remove those you still have ~3 characters who aren't clones but are just generally bad (Kirby, Bowser, Ness being the major 3, YMMV on if any of the others deserve mention). That leaves about 15-16 characters that are somewhat decent, at least a bit diverse, in a 2001 fighting game that's somehow still going when only half of those are used on the top level.

I'm not saying it's the worst with this because there's definitely way worse out there, but I think it's worth noting this at least.

I said if you look at sheer numbers your right, and I think the roster is more than a bit diverse. Comparing jiggs to fox is like apples to oranges, or marth to IC's. Its actually amazing that the top 8 has any kind of balance, they are for the most part very different.

You forgot, at a minimum, Snake, Pikachu, and Diddy Kong. And ZSS (though they would have to surpass Salem in the ICs MU... dunno if Choco is good enough for that). Those are also viable characters.
I don't really think Olimar is, given his MK MU is not exactly great and his ICs MU is terrible, but many think it's not THAT bad.
Disagree with topic as a whole but I'm not gonna bother going into why because this would start a HUGE debate I really don't feel like getting into when it's been done forever. I will say I'm surprised this hasn't been locked already....

Other than Salem's ZSS I've heard very little of any other characters winning big tournaments. Im an outsider on the brawl scene though so I wont pretend that's a fact. I'm also surprised this thread hasn't blown up and be locked to be honest, the title is a little abrasive.

 

[smashbroskilla]

Melee's roster is kinda garbage for a fighting game being played at a competitive level in general lately, but a lot of people don't want to admit that. It's a technical masterpiece almost by mistake, but its lack of a more diverse roster is annoying when you have stuff like Street Fighter, Marvel Vs Capcom and later Smash games boasting outstanding rosters of 30+ characters.

You got your top tier characters in every game. When I played my last UMVC3 online around 5,000 matches played online You couldn't make it through a session without virgil, magneto, dr doom, wolverine, zero on every team. Same thing with street fighter as well. You will always have your common enemies you see on the battlefield. You could have 100+ fighters and you might see 10 commonly used until someone like Amsa shows up and plays with Yoshi and all of a sudden super armor becomes hype flavor of the month.

 

[LancerStaff]

Nah, 64 is easily the worst. Basically nonexistent solo modes, shrimpy roster, little item variety, the stages suck for competition and casual play...

Melee gave us decent single player replay value, lots more characters and items and stuff, but the mechanics weren't well suited for casual play (ie the most common way to play), stages were still fairly lackluster, and half the roster were clones that either sucked or just outclassed the originals.

Brawl probably had the best solo modes in the series, if only for having a main made you didn't need to replay 30+ times to get everything. And it added two-player solo play on top of that, although I can't understand why it wasn't there for classic mode. Brawl also brought us the return of casual-friendly physics, great stages all around, really gimmicky and fun items, a god-tier soundtrack, probably the best overall additions to the roster in the series, and even the ability to remap the controllers. Let's be honest, the only thing Brawl lacked was competitive play. And Mewtwo.

4, some would say was a misstep because of the overall weaker solo experience and modes that really don't make sense. Let's be honest, people play Smash Run to get all 1000s by themselves instead of winning the cheesy minigame at the end against friends. Smash Tour is just bleh because you have to play as characters randomly. But it has overall the best multiplayer gameplay in the series, a general +1 to Brawl's content, usable online modes, added really fun casual features in equipment and 8-player, and the first decently well-balanced roster in the series. It lacked a really memorable new solo mode, upped the difficultly but really ment you had to play the best way to get anywhere, had lackluster additions to the soundtrack, and really didn't have any important additions to the roster. (And honestly, Brawl covered all the "has to"s and "should be"s already.)

Basically 64 doesn't have anything, Melee has competition, Brawl has everything but competition, and SSB4 one-ups Brawl in every way besides solo modes.

 

[C-SAF]

Nah, 64 is easily the worst. Basically nonexistent solo modes, shrimpy roster, little item variety, the stages suck for competition and casual play...

Melee gave us decent single player replay value, lots more characters and items and stuff, but the mechanics weren't well suited for casual play (ie the most common way to play), stages were still fairly lackluster, and half the roster were clones that either sucked or just outclassed the originals.

Brawl probably had the best solo modes in the series, if only for having a main made you didn't need to replay 30+ times to get everything. And it added two-player solo play on top of that, although I can't understand why it wasn't there for classic mode. Brawl also brought us the return of casual-friendly physics, great stages all around, really gimmicky and fun items, a god-tier soundtrack, probably the best overall additions to the roster in the series, and even the ability to remap the controllers. Let's be honest, the only thing Brawl lacked was competitive play. And Mewtwo.

4, some would say was a misstep because of the overall weaker solo experience and modes that really don't make sense. Let's be honest, people play Smash Run to get all 1000s by themselves instead of winning the cheesy minigame at the end against friends. Smash Tour is just bleh because you have to play as characters randomly. But it has overall the best multiplayer gameplay in the series, a general +1 to Brawl's content, usable online modes, added really fun casual features in equipment and 8-player, and the first decently well-balanced roster in the series. It lacked a really memorable new solo mode, upped the difficultly but really ment you had to play the best way to get anywhere, had lackluster additions to the soundtrack, and really didn't have any important additions to the roster. (And honestly, Brawl covered all the "has to"s and "should be"s already.)

Basically 64 doesn't have anything, Melee has competition, Brawl has everything but competition, and SSB4 one-ups Brawl in every way besides solo modes.

I always thought 64 had the best stages to be honest. They're simplicity let you just play the game. One of the things that has bothered me most from game to game is how outrageous the stages have gotten. The combos are also so cool. And for what its worth I never found any of the solo campaigns that engaging, to me its not the focus of the series. Putting the majority of the focus on just gameplay, I think 64 is second only to melee. Not to mention every character is viable, even if there are only 12.

 

[Gatlin]

That's fine to think that. Everyone is granted to have an opinion of some kind so long as they keep it as an opinion and don't try to force said opinion onto others. Whilst this thread has remained tame thus far, these types of threads have always had a bad history of turning ugly, which is why they typically will be locked before that happens. Thanks to the lot of you for keeping it civil, though. Happy new years.