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Hate to say it, but this argument is monotonous. You keep saying the same thing and people keep arguing, how can you stand to repeat yourself.
Because people keep repeating the same idiotic arguments, so I keep having to refute them using the same responses because they happen to be the best ones for the situation?
I just don't see how you can answer the same questions over and over, it seems very boring and monotonous.
If he doesn't do it, people will just assume they are right, when usually they are misinformed.
Why do you use monotonous when you already have already described it in your sentence?
Tier lists do use tournament resuts but that is only to provide backing to them.
*gives shadowlink a pure black name*
You lie its still yellow T_T.
exactly, and said situation is monotonous, at least in my opinion. I also did change your username color but them I changed it back really quickly, because I can haXX0r stuffs liek dat.
no need for that kind of language, *** ****** *******'s annoy the ******* **** out of me.
I reported your post. Why must the idiots come out to play on such a miserable rainy day?
Wow, you're one of "those" aren't you? Sakurai can never do wrong nor can he ever do anything stupid.
yoshi isn't horrible...okay, I lied.
I'm sure he can be wrong, perhaps he's locked his keys in his car, or forgot what day it was...Oh it happens to us all....But to think he'd make huge blunders, when he's worked so hard on smash...Well I think you need to re-evaluate the guy.
God stop whining.[/quote]
...nerfing tiers? or trying to balance? Again it just sounds like you are whining because he didn't make the game YOU wanted him to make. Grow up.I call them personal choices, and I know he had his reasons...I may not care for tripping but It's FAR from stupid. He's not one of my favorite people, I just have respect for the guy, after all the hardwork he's done and all the games he's put out...The least I can do is point out how selfish, arrogant, and eltist you're being against the guy.
Tripping is very much a mistake. The reason items are removed and stages are banned in competitive play is to remove all elements of luck or chance from the game. The idea is to reduce it to a test of skill only. Tripping ends that. If two players of equal skill are fighting each other, and one trips during their approach, the other player has only to f-smash to gain a huge upper hand, and a lead that wouldn't have been there were it not for Sakurai's poor planning. How does that balance anything? Sakurai developed this game for casual players, it's only natural that we competitive players would dislike changes that make the game inconducive to tournament play.God stop whining. Tripping wasn't a mistake. 100% intentional
Do you care to explain how tripping isn't stupid? There is no legitimate reason for it to be in the game. Even casual players would dislike it if they lose matches based on a random value in the programming. Nobody is disrespecting Sakurai, they are simply criticizing some of the decisions he made while developing the game. Yuna's comments are in no way selfish, arrogant, or elitist. Do you realize that it is equally elitist to criticize competitive players in the way that you have? The comments you make assume that casual players are superior to competitive players in that they don't "waste their lives away," or "just play to have fun." Not once has a competitive player initiated a criticism of casual players.
don't do it for the title, do it for smashboards. Being nice and helpful, and not just a general asshat may garner you moderator, but b-roomer, sb-roomer, debater, and smash director requires things out of you.
I'm sorry, I thought you held an at least fundamental grasp of the English language. Since when doe the words "Act of stupidity" and "Mistake" equal "Unintential blunder"?
1) Tripping is stupid. Even Casual smashers hate it. The majority of the people I know who have played the game hate it.God stop whining.
Tripping wasn't a mistake. 100% intentional
I called him "stupid" and you flamed me for it.
be nice, swearing and name calling won't help a thing. Also, it's impossible to troll gamefaqs, thats like... not trolling SWF...
Thats like saying all black people like fried chicken, you can't speak on the behalf of alot of people who call themselves "casual" gamers. I can see why alot of people hate it, but instead of whining about it, figure out how it works into your precious METAGAME.
I think he did the best he could, WHILE keeping true to the original characters moves, and keeping all the characters VERY different...Like alot of you said it yourselves, there can be no perfect balance in a game with diffrent characters. That's alot to juggle, where's YOUR game if you're so much smarter?
I don't think stupid people should throw the word "stupid" around
Not for pointing out "mistakes" but thinking you know better than him, you call him stupid so you must think you're more intelligent, and basically pissing on a game that you're going to play anyway, AND enjoy....Yeah i think that pretty much covers Elitist, Selfish, and Arrogant.
name 10 people who like tripping. ten people is about .0092% of smashboards, but finding ten who like tripping is no easy task.
True, the game was never meant to be played with a completely even playing field, however that is the sole purpose of competitive play. You may not want to have a match based on skill, and if so, go ahead and ignore all the basic conventions of competitive play. This includes tiers. It simply doesn't apply to you, so there is no reason to complain about it. I never said I don't like Brawl.
Smashboards it the home of competitive smash. The idea is to win. Maybe you should read David Sirlin's article on Playing to Win.
Not really. Tripping is completely random. It doesn't favor one character over another, and stages have nothing to do with it. See Phanna's test using four wavebirds.
A game cannot be competitive with a large number of random factors, especially ones with the magnitude of tripping. This is why items were removed, because people were getting screwed over by exploding barrels, and random item spawns.
I don't understand... Are you admitting that you're a troll?
"Improvisation" is inherent. Wtf is a run combo? The point is that if you have the skill and ability to time button presses properly, the combo shouldn't have failed, and you should be leading. If you trip, you're being punished for executing commands properly. This goes against the entire idea of competitive video games.
You can trip in the air. Not to mention that you'd be hard pressed to find a pro that exclusively uses aerial attacks and spends 100% of their time in the air.
The game isn't even about effective running. All of your posts betray the fact that you know and understand little about the Smash metagame. How can accomplish anything without running? Are you saying that you play Smash without ever dashing?
The point of a fighting game is to defeat your opponent by going on the offensive, and effectively countering attacks. Are you recommending that people sit and shield at all times for fear of tripping? Now you're just making up reasons to support tripping. You can't honestly believe that tripping is a good thing.
I'm "probably VERY VERY wrong" in thinking that casual gamers hate tripping? I'm wrong in assuming that casual gamers hate losing because of a random event they have no control over? Please return to reality.
I have never said I don't like Brawl. I also never said that casual gamers are superior to competitive gamers. I'm saying that the comments you have made are equally, if not more, elitist than anything any competitive gamer has said. That's what's known as "hypocrisy."
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i reported that you are a total noob, suck my balls, they are ready, brawlscrub
So the game really wasn't MEANT to be competitive, the players made it that way...Which is totally fine except you'll never even the playing field unless everyone plays the same character....this more or less kills the purpose of smash in the first place. I WILL play in tournaments, so tiers WILL apply to me. I plan to play tournaments CASUALLY...that means not throwing a hissyfit if I died because I tripped.
Wrong, I played Melee Casually, with tournament friends...The reason why I didn't play melee competitively because it was an entirely diffrent game than the one *I* enjoyed playing. I didn't pick on people for playing competitively, I just sat Melee out. But if I compete in brawl all this DOES apply to me.
I don't feel like reading a bible someone else wrote. Maybe you should try being a man, and make your mind up for yourself instead of letting a legion of casual/competitors make up your mind for you.
Did you not understand? ...siighhh* ...Okay Characters like Fox are speedy on ground, they lose effectiveness to SOME characters in the air. It dosn't matter if its completely randomn if you don't run around all the time....got me? I play Lucas / Ness / Toon Link and I spend all my time in the air or rolling, or waiting to counter...I don't run much at all...But playing against someone like Ike, they don't cover distance in the air as well so they must run. Hence it DOES favor certain characters....ya with me now?
Blackjack? Poker? Paper Rock Scissors? All have elements of randomn...The point is to take control over the control you DO have. I can understand barrels being too much, but tripping? It's not as bad as exploding barrels...its just somthing you have to adjust to. And if anything its probably balancing in some way.
....No. I'm saying a POSSIBLE scenerio is Sakurai felt like picking on the people who would take tripping so seriously.
Dosn't matter how much skill, or how hard you work sometimes things go wrong. So instead of falling and crying you pick yourself up, quickly think how to make up for your loss and move on. Stop asking for skill to be rewarded in a game...If you want a reward, get a job, get good at it and get a raise. Nintendo nowadays almost never makes a game where you are harshly punished for mistakes, and the elite are hansomely rewarded. They don't want such a gap in their games, and I can see why.
I've never tripped in the air. ...So if it DOES exist, it is not the same ratio of air tripping. Uhhh, thats because most PROS use melee characters that were good on the ground. Try finding good Ness players, that backdrop kick is important.
Not anymore it isn't, in Melee, zooming back and forth wether dashing or wavedashing was PRETTY important don't you think? ...I don't NOT run, I just don't run often. How can I accomplish anything? Let my enemy come to me, approach in the air, projectile, those are 3 things I do alot that don't involve running.
Uh, i played streetfighter only using counter attacks, and it works pretty well. I do like how you are trying to put words in my mouth. ...I'm saying maybe your short hopping, air game, and counter attacks will be more important than going offensive. I didn't say it was a good thing (it might be? hell if i know ), I'm just not so stupid to think they put it in a game without a purpose....Seriously it sounds really ignorant when you say they made Tripping for no reason. And so far I have found a few reasons tripping can be used to my advantage.
If someone is CASUAL, why would they freak out over losing 1/300 times to tripping? , especcially if they play with items on...Get a clue dude.
I didn't say you did.
I don't remember saying you said that.
You moron, learn the diffrence between "some" and "all" there's a big diffrence and you sound like a ******* when you say " oh your worse than any competitive gamer" "all casuals like spagetti" "scrubs love to watch happy days" .
yep, yep. It's all true. Although if you want me to blow you off I really suggest you read my signature first. Technically brawl and scrub are two different words, and by technically I mean you made up your own word for no apparent reason.
Maximo, if you don't get something, just ask. Covering it up by calling people idiots just makes you look like... ahhh.. .well, you know.
Sakurai didn't intend for the game to be competitively, but that doesn't prevent it from being true. Do you think they developed the first Street Fighter with the intent of making anything more than a fun, multiplayer fighting game?
I don't even know how to respond to this. You are such an unbelievable idiot, it's hard to say anything at all. How do you not understand? Tiers will always exist, whether you like it or not. If you want to ignore them, that's great. If you choose to base your character decision on it, that's fine too. But if you plan on playing competitively, you need to understand how competitive gaming works, and it's painfully obvious that you don't.
David Sirlin is one of the most respected competitive fighting game players in the world. He knows much more than you or I about fighting games and balance. Instead of bickering and complaining about tiers, you should read his articles and understand that this is the way all fighting games work. I was merely trying to inform you so that you stop making a fool of yourself in this thread.
Again you prove you know nothing about Smash's metagame. How does Fox lose effectiveness to characters in the air because he's speedy in the ground? Fox has some of the best aerials in the game because they have little startup and ending lag. That's besides the point.
Two card games predicated upon luck, and Rock-Paper-Scissors. Blackjack and Poker are played competitively, but they do not, in any way, apply to this conversation. I'm talking about competitive videogames. A better analogy would be some sort of martial arts match. If two people of equal strength fight each other, and one is forced to trip by an outside force, he will lose. One fighter is being punished for doing nothing wrong. In a competitive environment, this is unacceptable. Tournament play is based on skill, not some twisted code of honor you dreamed up.
A game developer never intentionally tries to marginalize a group of potential customers. That's some of the most ridiculous logic I've ever heard.
Why the hell wouldn't I want skill to be rewarded in a competitive game? That's the entire point of competitive gaming! A more skilled player will prevail over a less skilled player and advance. That's how it works.
Cross-apply my answer from above. Pros don't just use Melee characters that work on the ground. I main Fox and Marth, both of which have incredibly strong aerial games. If you played competitively, you'd understand this.
...
If that's true, then you must be terrible at Street Fighter. Visit Shoryuken and see how advanced the Street Fighter metagame is.
I'm not saying they'd freak out, I'm saying that it's ridiculous to claim that casual players will actually like tripping. Nobody likes losing.
I beg to differ:
It sounds like you're accusing me of disliking Brawl. If I misinterpreted your post, I apologize.
How is that even related to what I said? I was just kritiking your elitist comments towards competitive gamers. It's a bold statement to say that any player that plays Smash casually can beat competitive players that have invested hours and hours of time into developing their tournament play.
I don't feel like reading you argue on behalf of people that may or may not exist. Maybe you should try being a man, and argue with yourself instead of arguing with us?
I think Yuna just owned you Remian.
