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Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?

ShadowLBlue

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@ Munomario777 Munomario777 ,

I think I've already made clear that I disagree that Link just the Link from Twilight Princess. However if we use your logic that he is TP Link based on design, I just remembered something: If Link is only pulled from Twilight Princess than why does he have Navi? Besides the fact it looks just like Navi, there are no blue fairies in Twilight Princess. That's evidence that this Link isn't strictly Link from TP.
 
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Munomario777

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I said Phantom of the Hourglass, not Spirit Tracks.
Oh, my apologies. Then yes, they are the same Link.
@ Munomario777 Munomario777 ,

I think I've already made clear that I disagree that Link just the Link from Twilight Princess. However if we use your logic that he is TP Link based on design, I just remembered something: If Link is only pulled from Twilight Princess than why does he have Navi? Besides the fact it looks just like Navi, there are no blue fairies in Twilight Princess. That's evidence that this Link isn't strictly Link from TP.
http://zeldawiki.org/Navi#Other_Appearances
 
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Nerdicon

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Reading into this, are we really saying Sonic can move at light-speed? We have never seen an instance of this. He has several maneuvers prefixed as light-speed even though he clearly isn't. So are we saying that these attacks are at light speed just because the game says so? In that case the Warp Star moves at warp speed, yet it clearly doesn't. All I'm sayin' is that I feel just because the game says something, it doesn't mean it's necessarily true.
 

Munomario777

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Reading into this, are we really saying Sonic can move at light-speed? We have never seen an instance of this. He has several maneuvers prefixed as light-speed even though he clearly isn't. So are we saying that these attacks are at light speed just because the game says so? In that case the Warp Star moves at warp speed, yet it clearly doesn't. All I'm sayin' is that I feel just because the game says something, it doesn't mean it's necessarily true.
The difference is that the Light Speed Dash's in-game description from Sonic Adventure is dashing along a line of rings at light speed (or attacking at light speed for the Light Speed Attack), so it's explicitly stated. On the other hand, it's never actually stated in the Kirby games that the Warp Star travels at warp speed.
 

Munomario777

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There has been no instance of Sonic moving at light speed ever in any Sonic game.
In Sonic canon, it's stated that the Light Speed Dash (and, by extension, the Light Speed Attack) move at light speed. The reason it doesn't look like that is because of hardware limitations, as well as us not really being able to see anything move at light speed; it would practically look like teleportation.
 

Nerdicon

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In Sonic canon, it's stated that the Light Speed Dash (and, by extension, the Light Speed Attack) move at light speed. The reason it doesn't look like that is because of hardware limitations, as well as us not really being able to see anything move at light speed; it would practically look like teleportation.
Kinda hope I don't sound like that guy, but the second you said hardware limitations I have to think a little. Hardware limitations shoot down a lot of things such as my map comparison, there's no way they'd make Kirby that small on the map or make the map that big because hardware limitations. They wouldn't actually make Sonic or Samus move as fast as they are either. I do however stand by my philosophy of if the game claims something, then question it. Chaos Control however is a teleport which is more or less a teleport, and if Sonic froze time and punched someone his punch would be moving at an infinite speed as it traveled a distance in literally no time. Chock that up for anyone who can freeze time.
 

Munomario777

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Kinda hope I don't sound like that guy, but the second you said hardware limitations I have to think a little. Hardware limitations shoot down a lot of things such as my map comparison, there's no way they'd make Kirby that small on the map or make the map that big because hardware limitations. They wouldn't actually make Sonic or Samus move as fast as they are either. I do however stand by my philosophy of if the game claims something, then question it. Chaos Control however is a teleport which is more or less a teleport, and if Sonic froze time and punched someone his punch would be moving at an infinite speed as it traveled a distance in literally no time. Chock that up for anyone who can freeze time.
Well, in-game descriptions are still canon. I think a game saying something takes precedence over the gameplay in certain instances, such as this instance where hardware limitations keep the actual gameplay from moving at light speed. Also, interesting thoughts on Chaos Control.
 

Nerdicon

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Thanks, I mean I guess there are areas that in game text should take priority over gameplay, not always though. I'll say in this case...eh. I mean, speed is a hard thing to portray visually in any form of media.
 

ShadowLBlue

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Who says the taunt is Navi specifically? Also, on the subject of cursors, Rosalina's Down Special.
The smash wiki says it (I know, I could be wrong), the fact there is no red fairies in twilight princess and that it looks exactly like Navi strongly hint at it being Navi. Plus the only fairies in the series that are blue are companion fairies, Navi and Cecil (from PH). This fairy is clearly not of the world of Twilight Princess.
Also, there was no fairy cursor in the gamecube one. I believe previous Zelda games have had cursors for certain items like the hook shot, but that's just to help the user aim. It's not something Link sees anymore than those 4 rotating triangles we see when he locks onto an enemy.
Regarding Rosalina's down special, that was actually a part of the game in the sense it interacted with the world and Mario.
 

Munomario777

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The smash wiki says it (I know, I could be wrong), the fact there is no red fairies in twilight princess and that it looks exactly like Navi strongly hint at it being Navi. Plus the only fairies in the series that are blue are companion fairies, Navi and Cecil (from PH). This fairy is clearly not of the world of Twilight Princess.
Also, there was no fairy cursor in the gamecube one. I believe previous Zelda games have had cursors for certain items like the hook shot, but that's just to help the user aim. It's not something Link sees anymore than those 4 rotating triangles we see when he locks onto an enemy.
Regarding Rosalina's down special, that was actually a part of the game in the sense it interacted with the world and Mario.
As in, an official, canon source. Also, it's a blue fairy, not a red one. And, again, the blue fairy in TP Wii looks like Navi. On the subject of Wii vs Gamecube, the Wii version of TP was released before Brawl (by about two years, in fact), so it's entirely possible they took inspiration from it when designing the taunt, and it makes much more sense when you take into consideration that everything else about the character was based on his TP appearance.
 

Crystanium

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Yes, space jump allows infinite jumpes with screw attack. And shinesparking also works but stops when she hits a wall.
My point is that earthquake isn't going to harm Samus. Even if it was used, Samus isn't a Pokemon, so I doubt the effects that would work against fire-, ground-, and poison-type Pokemon would work against Samus.

I'm not sure what you're confused about here. It reduces her speed and would occasionally cause her to become completely paralyzed momentarily.
I'm not confused about anything. In Super Metroid, Samus can link her grapple beam to an electric node while she's being held by Draygon. By doing so, she takes the hit, but it's Draygon who gets killed while she's still capable of moving. My point is that paralysis in the case of thunder wave likely is understood as being incapacitated and not actually being a paralytic. In other words, it might affect Samus' energy shield, but it's not going to slow her down or immobilize her.

Yes, but mother brain was immobile. Combine Mother Brain and Gorea and you have like 60-70% of Mewtwo's abilities.
I'm not concerned about Mewtwo's abilities, if by abilities you mean what he can learn. Mother Brain's hyper beam is the most powerful weapon she has and the weapon Samus uses against her. It's the only known beam that kills her. In Super Metroid, Mother Brain was mobile, but maybe you meant she was immobile in that she was on Zebes and didn't go to any other planet. Then again, neither has Mewtwo.

I'm not as into science as you, but isn't plasma just extremely hot form of fire? I don't see why the plasma beam could kill him when none of Link's fire based weapons would. However, it's true Ganondorf's never dealt with the wave beam or anhiliator beam (or their respective missile combinations.)
I suppose you could say that. Plasma is ionized gas. Flames can get hot enough to the point that atoms are stripped of their electrons. I have already made in a previous post that Ganondorf withstood Valoo's flame and used color temperature to come up with an assumption of the temperature. Samus' plasma beam was one-thousand degrees higher, if I recall correctly. I'm not sure how hot Link's fire arrows are.

Yes, but we have no idea what way that would be. Is it fair to just speculate which weapons/powers could also be able to kill him when we truly have no idea. Theoretically he could also be able to be killed by bug type moves while resisting the other 16 bug types, but there's no evidence for that what so ever.
I think the burden of proof is on anyone who says Mewtwo can withstand attack x, y, and z when we've never seen him withstand it. Clearly, the developers show that Mewtwo is harmed by extreme temperatures. It's not super effective like a bug attack, but it's still capable of harming him.

My apologies then. And defend Ganondorf and Mewtwo against who?
Against anyone else on the roster.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's clear the issue here is you don't believe in the mystical powers of magic. If a game's lore says "an object of infinite power" has granted someone invulnerability, I (and judging by comments, most other people here) have no reason to disbelieve it.
It's not magic I don't believe in, it's logic that I must uphold. It is illogical to think that something is true in one's universe is true in another universe.

Reading into this, are we really saying Sonic can move at light-speed? We have never seen an instance of this. He has several maneuvers prefixed as light-speed even though he clearly isn't. So are we saying that these attacks are at light speed just because the game says so? In that case the Warp Star moves at warp speed, yet it clearly doesn't. All I'm sayin' is that I feel just because the game says something, it doesn't mean it's necessarily true.
The description of light speed dash tells us that Sonic dashes at light speed. This ability is used in some light temple or something. Something about "Ancient Light". The theme seems to suggest that the light speed dash is meant to allow Sonic to travel 299,792,458 m/s. I would say that the warp star flies at least the speed of light, since light speed travel would be the requirement to get from planet to planet in a short amount of time. That, or it's flying hypersonic speed.
 

Munomario777

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The description of light speed dash tells us that Sonic dashes at light speed. This ability is used in some light temple or something. Something about "Ancient Light". The theme seems to suggest that the light speed dash is meant to allow Sonic to travel 299,792,458 m/s. I would say that the warp star flies at least the speed of light, since light speed travel would be the requirement to get from planet to planet in a short amount of time. That, or it's flying hypersonic speed.
Yeah, the Ancient Light grants Sonic (or Shadow) the Light Speed Attack (which is basically the Homing Attack, but at light speed and thus more powerful) in the Sonic Adventure games. However, when measuring the Warp Star's speed, we should determine the distance the Warp Star itself is travelling in that time period. Since we can see Kirby in the Milky Way Wishes (I assume that's what you're talking about here) for scale, it doesn't look like the Warp Star is actually travelling all that fast in that scene.
 

ShadowLBlue

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I didn't respond this at the time but:
Sounds good.
Actually, just Wind Waker. The description is referencing the shared art style between the games such as Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks, Four Swords, etc. By the way, the reason that Spirit Tracks is listed on his trophy is probably because of the Spirit Train stage in the 3DS version (and the "Toon Link" that appears there as the conductor).
No, the trophy literally said "This is Link as he appears in Wind Waker and a few other games." It means what it says, that this is the Link from the cell-shaded games. Wind Waker is singled out because it's A) The most recent game, (counting the rerelease), B) the most successful sales-wise, C) and the first.

But I've grown tired of this. I think we've clearly reached an impasse and just agree to disagree. Just realize when I talk about Link/Toon Link/Young Link that I'll be using the definition of them as composite characters from the games me and Kirby Dragons agreed on.

Responses in the quote Dryn.
My point is that earthquake isn't going to harm Samus. Even if it was used, Samus isn't a Pokemon, so I doubt the effects that would work against fire-, ground-, and poison-type Pokemon would work against Samus.

Saying she should be able to dodge it without too much trouble is fine, but I don't see how her not being a fire/rock/poison Pokémon prevents it from being a strong attack against Samus.


I'm not confused about anything. In Super Metroid, Samus can link her grapple beam to an electric node while she's being held by Draygon. By doing so, she takes the hit, but it's Draygon who gets killed while she's still capable of moving. My point is that paralysis in the case of thunder wave likely is understood as being incapacitated and not actually being a paralytic. In other words, it might affect Samus' energy shield, but it's not going to slow her down or immobilize her.

No, thunder wave is specifically designed to paralyze. It's not just a random electric attack.

I'm not concerned about Mewtwo's abilities, if by abilities you mean what he can learn. Mother Brain's hyper beam is the most powerful weapon she has and the weapon Samus uses against her. It's the only known beam that kills her. In Super Metroid, Mother Brain was mobile, but maybe you meant she was immobile in that she was on Zebes and didn't go to any other planet. Then again, neither has Mewtwo.

I was actually referring to Metroid 1. I'm aware she could move in Super Metroid but surely you're not comparing the mobility of that slow body to Mewtwo's mobility.


I suppose you could say that. Plasma is ionized gas. Flames can get hot enough to the point that atoms are stripped of their electrons. I have already made in a previous post that Ganondorf withstood Valoo's flame and used color temperature to come up with an assumption of the temperature. Samus' plasma beam was one-thousand degrees higher, if I recall correctly. I'm not sure how hot Link's fire arrows are.

None of us are because they're magical.

I think the burden of proof is on anyone who says Mewtwo can withstand attack x, y, and z when we've never seen him withstand it. Clearly, the developers show that Mewtwo is harmed by extreme temperatures. It's not super effective like a bug attack, but it's still capable of harming him.

Don't agree, I don't think it's a temperature thing. Not that temperatures are explicitly stated but I'm willing to guess Ember which I believe is the weakest fire attack, isn't an extreme temperature. And it can hurt Mewtwo.


It's not magic I don't believe in, it's logic that I must uphold. It is illogical to think that something is true in one's universe is true in another universe.

In theory I agree with you but like I said, we have no idea of knowing what would and wouldn't translate between universes. We'd be doing baseless speculation and we'd never get to the discussion about who can actually beat whom.
More importantly, magic and technology doesn't adhere by logic. Sometimes not even with the same game universe.
And besides, what's wrong with the logic of "Ganondorf is blessed by Gods to be unkillable to non-holy items"? Unlike our discussion of whether Thunder wave could paralyze Samus (which I understand your doubts about), I think Ganondorf's invulnerability is pretty cut and dry.

.
Against anyone else on the roster.
Glad you asked, because I wanted to propose this question to the entire thread: Could Mario beat Ganondorf? I know the initial reaction is no because he lacks divine/holy objects, but wouldn't the Crystal Stars qualify since they were created by the Shadow Queen to "hold the essence of the heavens"? I also think you could make the argument that the Star Spirits attacks could hurt him too.

Also, @ Nerdicon Nerdicon you never responded to the thing I said about Palutena.
 
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Munomario777

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I didn't respond this at the time but:


No, the trophy literally said "This is Link as he appears in Wind Waker and a few other games." It means what it says, that this is the Link from the cell-shaded games. Wind Waker is singled out because it's A) The most recent game, (counting the rerelease), B) the most successful sales-wise, C) and the first.
It says that because Link looks (or "appears") the same in all of the cel-shaded games, appearance-wise. There is no "the Link from the cel-shaded games;" each game has a different Link (except for TWW and PH). Wind Waker is singled out because it's more well-known than Phantom Hourglass, as well as Toon Link in Smash drawing more from Wind Waker moveset-wise (most noticeably in his taunt involving the Wind Waker itself).

If this doesn't convince you, then I'll agree to disagree as well.

Glad you asked, because I wanted to propose this question to the entire thread: Could Mario beat Ganondorf? I know the initial reaction is no because he lacks divine/holy objects, but wouldn't the Crystal Stars qualify since they were created by the Shadow Queen to "hold the essence of the heavens"? I also think you could make the argument that the Star Spirits attacks could hurt him too.
Well, I don't think being created by the main antagonist qualifies something to be divine or holy. "Heaven" can mean a few things, including the sky, which isn't necessarily divine.
 

ShadowLBlue

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It says that because Link looks (or "appears") the same in all of the cel-shaded games, appearance-wise. There is no "the Link from the cel-shaded games;" each game has a different Link (except for TWW and PH). Wind Waker is singled out because it's more well-known than Phantom Hourglass, as well as Toon Link in Smash drawing more from Wind Waker moveset-wise (most noticeably in his taunt involving the Wind Waker itself).

If this doesn't convince you, then I'll agree to disagree as well.
All right


Well, I don't think being created by the main antagonist qualifies something to be divine or holy. "Heaven" can mean a few things, including the sky, which isn't necessarily divine.
Well it's possible the Shadow Queen was trying to harness some type of holy power, but I agree that heaven doesn't necessarily mean divine. It's admittedly a stretch, but just a thought that crossed my mind. I couldn't really find anything other than power of the heavens, so I guess we should just leave it a no.

On another note, should Marth be bumped into tier 2 now that we''ve established non-direct attacks can hurt him? That definitely allows Samus to all but slaughter him, and I don't see how he defends any of the multiple of long range power ups Pit and Palutena could use (Black hole + Mega Laser should finish him with ease).
Any number of Pokémon should be able to keep Marth at bay while pelting him with projectiles, so assuming Pokémon Trainer can't be hit he should be able to win too.
Composite Link/Toon Link/Young Link would all have the long range weapons to win.
As for TP Link, that seems unlikely. Marth is probably a better swordsman, and definitely faster, so he could probably dodge his boomerang and arrows with ease. Even if they hit I doubt they'd do too much damage (he deals with archers way better than Link in Fire Emblem). His only chance would be if the hookshot can snatch away the Falchion.
As for Young Link (I believe you said OoT/MM items), I believe his assortment of masks and access to magical arrows would give him a edge.
And for Toon Link, he also has fire and ice arrows, plus a bombchu (which seems like it'd be considered long distance), so I think he should be able to win.
 

Nerdicon

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Meh, if Marth can be hurt by projectiles, then drop him a few tiers, his invincibility to all non-dragon attacks was the only thing he had going for him. I do have to wonder how specific the dragon requirement is though.
 

Nerdicon

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The description of light speed dash tells us that Sonic dashes at light speed. This ability is used in some light temple or something. Something about "Ancient Light". The theme seems to suggest that the light speed dash is meant to allow Sonic to travel 299,792,458 m/s. I would say that the warp star flies at least the speed of light, since light speed travel would be the requirement to get from planet to planet in a short amount of time. That, or it's flying hypersonic speed.
The speed of the warp star is way too inconsistent and very poorly represented. Doing simple comparisons on the Milky Way Wishes means the Warp Star is moving either 6000+ km per second or 16 inches per second.

So for composite:4link:, is he allowed anything from Majora's Mask or no? If so then he has nigh impenetrable invincibility, if not he's OK. If he had access to the Chateau Romani and Nayru's Love, that would mean infinite invincibility with either small gaps if you don't count time freezing as a game mechanic or huge gaps if you do

:4metaknight: can fly as fast as a Warp Star, naturally teleport, heal back to perfect health, boost his ground speed to insane levels, exhibit mild control over fire and electricity, summon knights to fight for him, and his sword Galaxia shoots sword beams that can through anything, literally. His sword is indestructible and only he and Kirby can wield it, anyone else is hurt, corrupted, or killed.

:4darkpit: has the same power level as Pit, so extremely strong
 

Crystanium

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Yeah, the Ancient Light grants Sonic (or Shadow) the Light Speed Attack (which is basically the Homing Attack, but at light speed and thus more powerful) in the Sonic Adventure games. However, when measuring the Warp Star's speed, we should determine the distance the Warp Star itself is travelling in that time period. Since we can see Kirby in the Milky Way Wishes (I assume that's what you're talking about here) for scale, it doesn't look like the Warp Star is actually travelling all that fast in that scene.
I'm going to say right now that I don't know what the issue is with the Warp Star. If it's being argued that Kirby can use the Warp Star to defeat people on the roster, then other people could use their ships. Honestly, when it comes to space travel, light speed and even faster-than-light speed is the conventional way to go. Let's take Milky Way Wishes. The map in the game seems to match more of a solar system, rather than a galaxy. This could be due to game limitations. It's been a long while since I've played.

Assume that one of the nearest locations to Popstar is about the distance between the Earth and Moon. The distance between the Earth and Moon is 380,791 km. Light travels 299,792,458 m/s, or 299,792.458 km/s. If Kirby can travel this distance in 2 seconds, then the Warp Star travels at 190,396 km/s, or 63.51% the speed of light. So it's not light speed, but it's more than half way there.

Edit: On second though, there is a part where Kirby has to fly to, which looks farther, so the Warp Star could be light speed, if not FTL.

Saying she should be able to dodge it without too much trouble is fine, but I don't see how her not being a fire/rock/poison Pokémon prevents it from being a strong attack against Samus.
Samus isn't subject to the system Pokemon works under. If water is a prerequisite for life, and if fire-types can drink water or be so hot that raindrops become steam, then I can't say the function of these mechanics in the Pokeverse makes any sense. The point is, Samus would seem the attack as your typical earthquake.

No, thunder wave is specifically designed to paralyze. It's not just a random electric attack.
That's fine that it serves that purpose, but Samus is wearing a powered exoskeleton with a formfitting energy shield. If "paralyze" means incapacitate,and if it is a "weak jolt" according to the description, I can't see how it will do much of anything to Samus.

I was actually referring to Metroid 1. I'm aware she could move in Super Metroid but surely you're not comparing the mobility of that slow body to Mewtwo's mobility.
Of course not, but that issue is from the fact that she's in an enclosed area.

Don't agree, I don't think it's a temperature thing. Not that temperatures are explicitly stated but I'm willing to guess Ember which I believe is the weakest fire attack, isn't an extreme temperature. And it can hurt Mewtwo.
I don't see why that's hard to believe. It's not like Mewtwo is wearing some thermal insulator or reinforced carbon-carbon or silicone. Your typical candle flame produces 1,000 centigrade.

In theory I agree with you but like I said, we have no idea of knowing what would and wouldn't translate between universes. We'd be doing baseless speculation and we'd never get to the discussion about who can actually beat whom.

More importantly, magic and technology doesn't adhere by logic. Sometimes not even with the same game universe.
And besides, what's wrong with the logic of "Ganondorf is blessed by Gods to be unkillable to non-holy items"? Unlike our discussion of whether Thunder wave could paralyze Samus (which I understand your doubts about), I think Ganondorf's invulnerability is pretty cut and dry.
That's why we compare to see what works and what doesn't. By the way, I had a sort of revelation today. Samus' power beam works against the Ing. It's not as effective, but it can kill them. If my argument between the Ing and Ganondorf stand, then Samus' power beam could even kill Ganondorf. I've already explained that holy items might be the most effective, but not the only means by which Ganondorf can be killed.

Glad you asked, because I wanted to propose this question to the entire thread: Could Mario beat Ganondorf? I know the initial reaction is no because he lacks divine/holy objects, but wouldn't the Crystal Stars qualify since they were created by the Shadow Queen to "hold the essence of the heavens"? I also think you could make the argument that the Star Spirits attacks could hurt him too.
I'm not sure. It depends on which incarnation of Mario we're using. I'm not sure which incarnation Super Smash Bros. 4 is using.
 
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Munomario777

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I'm going to say right now that I don't know what the issue is with the Warp Star. If it's being argued that Kirby can use the Warp Star to defeat people on the roster, then other people could use their ships. Honestly, when it comes to space travel, light speed and even faster-than-light speed is the conventional way to go. Let's take Milky Way Wishes. The map in the game seems to match more of a solar system, rather than a galaxy. This could be due to game limitations. It's been a long while since I've played.

Assume that one of the nearest locations to Popstar is about the distance between the Earth and Moon. The distance between the Earth and Moon is 380,791 km. Light travels 299,792,458 m/s, or 299,792.458 km/s. If Kirby can travel this distance in 2 seconds, then the Warp Star travels at 190,396 km/s, or 63.51% the speed of light. So it's not light speed, but it's more than half way there.

Edit: On second though, there is a part where Kirby has to fly to, which looks farther, so the Warp Star could be light speed, if not FTL.
Yeah, good point with the vehicles. Is there any actual confirmation on the distance between the planets/the size of the planets? No (of course, correct me if I'm wrong). Is there confirmation on the size of Kirby (who we have for reference in the scene in question)? Yes. Thus, we should base our measurements off of Kirby himself. This is also best because we know he's close to the Warp Star (he's riding it), while for all we know, the planets could be far in the background, explaining why they're so small on the map screen compared to when Kirby lands on them.
 

Crystanium

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Yeah, good point with the vehicles. Is there any actual confirmation on the distance between the planets/the size of the planets? No (of course, correct me if I'm wrong). Is there confirmation on the size of Kirby (who we have for reference in the scene in question)? Yes. Thus, we should base our measurements off of Kirby himself. This is also best because we know he's close to the Warp Star (he's riding it), while for all we know, the planets could be far in the background, explaining why they're so small on the map screen compared to when Kirby lands on them.
There isn't any confirmation on the distance between planets, nor the size of the planets, which I'm not worried about. Maps typically are small and denote a larger world. We see this in the Mario series as well, such as Super Mario Bros. Wii. I honestly see no issue for Kirby's warp star to be light speed or FTL (even if that means 1.1 times the speed of light). Kirby isn't using it, else Pit gets the Great Sacred Treasure and Samus gets her gunship. I've also used the Oxford English Dictionary for the word "warp" and what it means in fiction.

Samus vs. Link

Some might think this battle is meaningless, but it is one that was presented before in the older thread concerning characters from Super Smash Bros. Brawl if they were true to their canon. It's also found on a few message boards. Some think Link would win, but I'm going to present my reasons why I think otherwise. I am using the incarnations presented for Super Smash Bros. Wii. Samus has all her upgrades from Metroid: Other M (MOM) and Link has all his upgrades from The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (TP).

Strength
The notable strength feat from MOM is when Samus tosses a lava-dwelling creature known as Vorash. Vorash's body is covered in a layer of lava and it seems to be about the size of a whale shark. Lava is denser than water. The density of lava, if we use the rhyolite melt would be 2,180 – 2,250 kg/m^3. A whale shark is not denser than lava, but Vorash swims through lava like it's water. This means Vorash would be denser than lava and in the same thought, denser than a whale shark. This would mean that Vorash would actually be heavier than a whale shark, not including the lava that covers its body.

Not only that, but lava is more viscous than water and while we may see whales pop up out of the sea, they do not leap the height that Vorash does. So not only is Samus dealing with the mass of this creature, she's dealing with its pull and the lava that it's swimming in. For a creature like Vorash to swim through lava as if it were water requires an incredible amount of force. I wish I could calculate this, but I'm not sure how I'd go about doing that. For now, whereas a whale shark can weigh 21.5 metric tons, Samus has to be at least able to lift that thing, as she tosses it straight up out of lava. For a safe assumption, I'll double that to 40 metric tons. Chances are it's more. (I'm not including the other strength feat from Metroid Prime 3: Corruption.)

In TP, the strength feat that stands out for Link is the battle with Dangoro. I do not know the anatomy of Gorons, but I will assume here that Gorons have bodies made of rock. What type of rock is difficult to pin down. Death Mountain is a volcanic mountain. So we could be dealing with rhyolite, andesitic, or balsatic rocks. If we work with rhyolite, then your typical Goron could have a density of 2,180 kg/m^3 on the low-end. I'd say Link's height is 5'7", or 170.18 centimeters. This is equal to 195 pixels. (I had to assume the last portion, as it was off-screen, but it was only Link's feet.) Dangoro is 358 pixels when he's rolled up.

I will take Dangoro's body in a sphere and find the volume that way. Though Dangoro is not exactly a perfect sphere, and though there are empty spaces, I will take the total volume and use that to make up for the metal he's wearing. Using Dangoro's px. and dividing it by Link's px. gives me 1.8358974358974359. Multiplying this by Link's height gives me 312.433025641025641462 cm. Since I have this, I can find the volume of a sphere, which gives me 15,968,695.004169821546604759925 cm^3. Multiplying this by 2,180 kg/m^3, or 2.18 g/cm^3 gives me a mass of 34,811,755.1090902109715983766365 grams, which is equal to 34.81 metric tons. So Link is close, but while Link tosses Dangoro a distance away from him, it's not to the same degree as with Vorash.

Samus: 1
Link: 0

Speed
This argument here shouldn't take as long. Samus is capable of outrunning an avalanche. It looks like a powder type and a small one would give a speed of 25 m/s (55.92 mi/h), according to this site. Considering Samus is not being overcome by this avalanche as she is running faster than it, I think it would be safe to round 25 m/s to 30 m/s, putting Samus' normal speed at 67.11 mi/h. The speed booster, however, grants Samus the ability to run at supersonic speeds. I have argued that the low-end is Mach 2. While I would consider Link's running speed, there aren't any feats of him being faster or on equal footing with Samus' normal speed.

Samus: 2
Link: 0

Durability
I will begin this durability argument with extreme temperatures. Both Samus and Link are capable entering hot or cold regions unfazed to some degree. I do not wish to downplay Link's durability, but I wonder sometimes if Nintendo decided to ignore these like most games, especially with Link's ability to be unaffected by extreme heat in the Goron Mines. In previous Zelda games, Link needed to wear something like the Goron tunic to protect him. Either way, traversing through Snowpeak in the clothes that he's in would cause him to freeze to death.

For the sake of being impartial, though, I will ignore these and consider that Link can survive in these regions. While Link can move without any issue with very hot air around him, Samus' life-support system is affected by this unless she's wearing the varia suit. She'll still take damage from falling into lava, unless she has the gravity suit active. Link, on the other hand, will die if he falls in to lava. So at first glance, it seems the two are equal until Samus' upgrades are considered. (In MOM, Samus takes damage from lava, but considering her gravity suit is the same from Super Metroid, I would reason that this is a game mechanic. Even if it wasn't, Samus won't die instantly like Link.)

With respect to blunt trauma, I cannot think of any instance where Link falls from a high spot in a cut-scene like he does in The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. If all Hylians are the same, then I would have to argue that this incarnation is not capable of withstand extreme heat, but can at least fall from great heights without any damage. Of course, this contradicts what the Deku says in The Great Deku Tree about preventing injury from great falls by rolling. I suppose I won't treat all Hylians the same, which means this incarnation of Link will get injured from falling too high.

Samus, on the other hand, demonstrates the ability to walk just fine after falling from a great distance. I suppose this should be expected if she is able to travel at supersonic speeds, slam into a wall or ceiling, and act as if nothing even happened. Both Samus and Link are vulnerable to sharp objects, however. Samus can drop comfortably onto spikes in SM, however, without any damage. These spikes will only harm her if they are active. So there seems to be a certain amount of pressure Samus can withstand from spikes, whereas Link can be harmed by blades.

I'm not sure what else I can compare the two with, although Link does have the magic armor. The way this works is that as long as Link is wearing this armor, his rupees will be depleted. Attacks will consume more rupees, so while this can be useful for Link, once all his rupees are out, he moves slow as if he's wearing iron boots, and this leaves him vulnerable. With respect to Samus' powered armor and Link's tunic, which appears to use chain mail, in the end, Samus' armor ends up being superior when it comes to taking punishment.

Samus: 3
Link: 0
 
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Munomario777

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Samus vs. Link
Some might think this battle is meaningless, but it is one that was presented before in the older thread concerning characters from Super Smash Bros. Brawl if they were true to their canon. It's also found on a few message boards. Some think Link would win, but I'm going to present my reasons why I think otherwise. I am using the incarnations presented for Super Smash Bros. Wii. Samus has all her upgrades from Metroid: Other M (MOM) and Link has all his upgrades from The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (TP).

Strength
The notable strength feat from MOM is when Samus tosses a lava-dwelling creature known as Vorash. Vorash's body is covered in a layer of lava and it seems to be about the size of a whale shark. Lava is denser than water. The density of lava, if we use the rhyolite melt would be 2,180 – 2,250 kg/m^3. A whale shark is not denser than lava, but Vorash swims through lava like it's water. This means Vorash would be denser than lava and in the same thought, denser than a whale shark. This would mean that Vorash would actually be heavier than a whale shark, not including the lava that covers its body.

Not only that, but lava is more viscous than water and while we may see whales pop up out of the sea, they do not leap the height that Vorash does. So not only is Samus dealing with the mass of this creature, she's dealing with its pull and the lava that it's swimming in. For a creature like Vorash to swim through lava as if it were water requires an incredible amount of force. I wish I could calculate this, but I'm not sure how I'd go about doing that. For now, whereas a whale shark can weigh 21.5 metric tons, Samus has to be at least able to lift that thing, as she tosses it straight up out of lava. For a safe assumption, I'll double that to 40 metric tons. Chances are it's more. (I'm not including the other strength feat from Metroid Prime 3: Corruption.)

In TP, the strength feat that stands out for Link is the battle with Dangoro. I do not know the anatomy of Gorons, but I will assume here that Gorons have bodies made of rock. What type of rock is difficult to pin down. Death Mountain is a volcanic mountain. So we could be dealing with rhyolite, andesitic, or balsatic rocks. If we work with rhyolite, then your typical Goron could have a density of 2,180 kg/m^3 on the low-end. I'd say Link's height is 5'7", or 170.18 centimeters. This is equal to 195 pixels. (I had to assume the last portion, as it was off-screen, but it was only Link's feet.) Dangoro is 358 pixels when he's rolled up.

I will take Dangoro's body in a sphere and find the volume that way. Though Dangoro is not exactly a perfect sphere, and though there are empty spaces, I will take the total volume and use that to make up for the metal he's wearing. Using Dangoro's px. and dividing it by Link's px. gives me 1.8358974358974359. Multiplying this by Link's height gives me 312.433025641025641462 cm. Since I have this, I can find the volume of a sphere, which gives me 15,968,695.004169821546604759925 cm^3. Multiplying this by 2,180 kg/m^3, or 2.18 g/cm^3 gives me a mass of 34,811,755.1090902109715983766365 grams, which is equal to 34.81 metric tons. So Link is close, but while Link tosses Dangoro a distance away from him, it's not to the same degree as with Vorash.

Samus: 1
Link: 0

Speed
This argument here shouldn't take as long. Samus is capable of outrunning an avalanche. It looks like a powder type and a small one would give a speed of 25 m/s (55.92 mi/h), according to this site. Considering Samus is not being overcome by this avalanche as she is running faster than it, I think it would be safe to round 25 m/s to 30 m/s, putting Samus' normal speed at 67.11 mi/h. The speed booster, however, grants Samus the ability to run at supersonic speeds. I have argued that the low-end is Mach 2. While I would consider Link's running speed, there aren't any feats of him being faster or on equal footing with Samus' normal speed.

Samus: 2
Link: 0

Durability
I will begin this durability argument with extreme temperatures. Both Samus and Link are capable entering hot or cold regions unfazed to some degree. I do not wish to downplay Link's durability, but I wonder sometimes if Nintendo decided to ignore these like most games, especially with Link's ability to be unaffected by extreme heat in the Goron Mines. In previous Zelda games, Link needed to wear something like the Goron tunic to protect him. Either way, traversing through Snowpeak in the clothes that he's in would cause him to freeze to death.

For the sake of being impartial, though, I will ignore these and consider that Link can survive in these regions. While Link can move without any issue with very hot air around him, Samus' life-support system is affected by this unless she's wearing the varia suit. She'll still take damage from falling into lava, unless she has the gravity suit active. Link, on the other hand, will die if he falls in to lava. So at first glance, it seems the two are equal until Samus' upgrades are considered. (In MOM, Samus takes damage from lava, but considering her gravity suit is the same from Super Metroid, I would reason that this is a game mechanic. Even if it wasn't, Samus won't die instantly like Link.)

With respect to blunt trauma, I cannot think of any instance where Link falls from a high spot in a cut-scene like he does in The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. If all Hylians are the same, then I would have to argue that this incarnation is not capable of withstand extreme heat, but can at least fall from great heights without any damage. Of course, this contradicts what the Deku says in The Great Deku Tree about preventing injury from great falls by rolling. I suppose I won't treat all Hylians the same, which means this incarnation of Link will get injured from falling too high.

Samus, on the other hand, demonstrates the ability to walk just fine after falling from a great distance. I suppose this should be expected if she is able to travel at supersonic speeds, slam into a wall or ceiling, and act as if nothing even happened. Both Samus and Link are vulnerable to sharp objects, however. Samus can drop comfortably onto spikes in SM, however, without any damage. These spikes will only harm her if they are active. So there seems to be a certain amount of pressure Samus can withstand from spikes, whereas Link can be harmed by blades.

I'm not sure what else I can compare the two with, although Link does have the magic armor. The way this works is that as long as Link is wearing this armor, his rupees will be depleted. Attacks will consume more rupees, so while this can be useful for Link, once all his rupees are out, he moves slow as if he's wearing iron boots, and this leaves him vulnerable. With respect to Samus' powered armor and Link's tunic, which appears to use chain mail, in the end, Samus' armor ends up being superior when it comes to taking punishment.

Samus: 3
Link: 0
So basically futuristic super suit > cloth tunic. :p Nice analysis though.

I do think it would be a nice direction for the thread to have more of these head-to-head in-depth comparisons.
 
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Crystanium

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So basically futuristic super suit > cloth tunic. :p Nice analysis though.
Thank you. There was someone who called himself "galekill" and argued in favor of Link here at SWF in the past. He was banned for going against the terms of service, though. His other name is ScreamPaste.
 

Luggy

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Samus vs. Link
Some might think this battle is meaningless, but it is one that was presented before in the older thread concerning characters from Super Smash Bros. Brawl if they were true to their canon. It's also found on a few message boards. Some think Link would win, but I'm going to present my reasons why I think otherwise. I am using the incarnations presented for Super Smash Bros. Wii. Samus has all her upgrades from Metroid: Other M (MOM) and Link has all his upgrades from The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (TP).

Strength
The notable strength feat from MOM is when Samus tosses a lava-dwelling creature known as Vorash. Vorash's body is covered in a layer of lava and it seems to be about the size of a whale shark. Lava is denser than water. The density of lava, if we use the rhyolite melt would be 2,180 – 2,250 kg/m^3. A whale shark is not denser than lava, but Vorash swims through lava like it's water. This means Vorash would be denser than lava and in the same thought, denser than a whale shark. This would mean that Vorash would actually be heavier than a whale shark, not including the lava that covers its body.

Not only that, but lava is more viscous than water and while we may see whales pop up out of the sea, they do not leap the height that Vorash does. So not only is Samus dealing with the mass of this creature, she's dealing with its pull and the lava that it's swimming in. For a creature like Vorash to swim through lava as if it were water requires an incredible amount of force. I wish I could calculate this, but I'm not sure how I'd go about doing that. For now, whereas a whale shark can weigh 21.5 metric tons, Samus has to be at least able to lift that thing, as she tosses it straight up out of lava. For a safe assumption, I'll double that to 40 metric tons. Chances are it's more. (I'm not including the other strength feat from Metroid Prime 3: Corruption.)

In TP, the strength feat that stands out for Link is the battle with Dangoro. I do not know the anatomy of Gorons, but I will assume here that Gorons have bodies made of rock. What type of rock is difficult to pin down. Death Mountain is a volcanic mountain. So we could be dealing with rhyolite, andesitic, or balsatic rocks. If we work with rhyolite, then your typical Goron could have a density of 2,180 kg/m^3 on the low-end. I'd say Link's height is 5'7", or 170.18 centimeters. This is equal to 195 pixels. (I had to assume the last portion, as it was off-screen, but it was only Link's feet.) Dangoro is 358 pixels when he's rolled up.

I will take Dangoro's body in a sphere and find the volume that way. Though Dangoro is not exactly a perfect sphere, and though there are empty spaces, I will take the total volume and use that to make up for the metal he's wearing. Using Dangoro's px. and dividing it by Link's px. gives me 1.8358974358974359. Multiplying this by Link's height gives me 312.433025641025641462 cm. Since I have this, I can find the volume of a sphere, which gives me 15,968,695.004169821546604759925 cm^3. Multiplying this by 2,180 kg/m^3, or 2.18 g/cm^3 gives me a mass of 34,811,755.1090902109715983766365 grams, which is equal to 34.81 metric tons. So Link is close, but while Link tosses Dangoro a distance away from him, it's not to the same degree as with Vorash.

Samus: 1
Link: 0

Speed
This argument here shouldn't take as long. Samus is capable of outrunning an avalanche. It looks like a powder type and a small one would give a speed of 25 m/s (55.92 mi/h), according to this site. Considering Samus is not being overcome by this avalanche as she is running faster than it, I think it would be safe to round 25 m/s to 30 m/s, putting Samus' normal speed at 67.11 mi/h. The speed booster, however, grants Samus the ability to run at supersonic speeds. I have argued that the low-end is Mach 2. While I would consider Link's running speed, there aren't any feats of him being faster or on equal footing with Samus' normal speed.

Samus: 2
Link: 0

Durability
I will begin this durability argument with extreme temperatures. Both Samus and Link are capable entering hot or cold regions unfazed to some degree. I do not wish to downplay Link's durability, but I wonder sometimes if Nintendo decided to ignore these like most games, especially with Link's ability to be unaffected by extreme heat in the Goron Mines. In previous Zelda games, Link needed to wear something like the Goron tunic to protect him. Either way, traversing through Snowpeak in the clothes that he's in would cause him to freeze to death.

For the sake of being impartial, though, I will ignore these and consider that Link can survive in these regions. While Link can move without any issue with very hot air around him, Samus' life-support system is affected by this unless she's wearing the varia suit. She'll still take damage from falling into lava, unless she has the gravity suit active. Link, on the other hand, will die if he falls in to lava. So at first glance, it seems the two are equal until Samus' upgrades are considered. (In MOM, Samus takes damage from lava, but considering her gravity suit is the same from Super Metroid, I would reason that this is a game mechanic. Even if it wasn't, Samus won't die instantly like Link.)

With respect to blunt trauma, I cannot think of any instance where Link falls from a high spot in a cut-scene like he does in The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. If all Hylians are the same, then I would have to argue that this incarnation is not capable of withstand extreme heat, but can at least fall from great heights without any damage. Of course, this contradicts what the Deku says in The Great Deku Tree about preventing injury from great falls by rolling. I suppose I won't treat all Hylians the same, which means this incarnation of Link will get injured from falling too high.

Samus, on the other hand, demonstrates the ability to walk just fine after falling from a great distance. I suppose this should be expected if she is able to travel at supersonic speeds, slam into a wall or ceiling, and act as if nothing even happened. Both Samus and Link are vulnerable to sharp objects, however. Samus can drop comfortably onto spikes in SM, however, without any damage. These spikes will only harm her if they are active. So there seems to be a certain amount of pressure Samus can withstand from spikes, whereas Link can be harmed by blades.

I'm not sure what else I can compare the two with, although Link does have the magic armor. The way this works is that as long as Link is wearing this armor, his rupees will be depleted. Attacks will consume more rupees, so while this can be useful for Link, once all his rupees are out, he moves slow as if he's wearing iron boots, and this leaves him vulnerable. With respect to Samus' powered armor and Link's tunic, which appears to use chain mail, in the end, Samus' armor ends up being superior when it comes to taking punishment.

Samus: 3
Link: 0

This fight was already won by :4samus:, but you proved it with the right science and the right facts. Congratulations.
 

Munomario777

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Sonic's feats, powers, and abilities:

Speed
Sonic's most notable, consistent, and famous trait is his, of course, his superhuman (or superhedgehog, as it were) speed. As his name implies, Sonic is able to run faster than the speed of sound. Additionally, in the Sonic Adventure DX manual, he is stated to be "the world's fastest, hypersonic hedgehog," "hypersonic" being speeds ranging from 3,840 mph to 7,680 mph. In fact, in Sonic Unleashed, Sonic is at his fastest. The checkpoints in that game record Sonic's current speed. The Light Speed Dash clocks in at 396 SPD, whereas Sonic's boost speed is around 1200 SPD. This means that Sonic can move at speeds surpassing three times light speed! Sonic's speed allows him to scale vertical surfaces as well as wall-run horizontally, and he can also run on the surface of water. Sonic can also run as fast backwards as he can forwards. Despite this speed, however, he can turn very sharply at top speed, and almost never misses his target, since he has reflexes to match his speed. The Drift and the Quick Step can also help him maneuver at high speed. His super speed has other applications besides movement as well. For instance, Sonic can heal himself by vibrating his molecules very quickly, he can create shockwaves, and he can create an Insta-Shield made of speed energy for a split second to pierce enemy defenses.

Physical Abilities
In addition to his super speed, Sonic also possesses a great amount of agility, being able to dodge nearly anything thrown at him. He can jump several hundred feet in the air, and possesses many jumping techniques, such as a short hop, Spin Jump, Wall Jump, Triangle Jump, double jump, and more midair techniques. He also has great control over his movement, able to dodge attacks swiftly and gracefully despite their incoming speed and his own current velocity. While he may not be quite as physically strong as his friend Knuckles, Sonic still possesses some degree of superhuman strength. He can push large objects with ease, and he can lift objects much larger than he is while still running at top speed. His Spin attacks are also very powerful, but they'll be getting their own section. Most of his physical attacks involve kicks rather than punches, since his legs are where his true power lies, between his kicks and his running. For instance, the Stomp can crush many surfaces and defeat many foes, and in Sonic Adventure 2, he was able to topple the huge Egg Golem with just one kick. In addition, Sonic has been shown to be able to tough it through many dangers. He can survive crossfire from all angles, he can smash through several robots with his fist without showing any signs of pain, and most impressively, he can survive atmospheric reentry, doing so on many occasions throughout the series. He also possesses a great amount of willpower, shown in Sonic Unleashed when he keeps his head when under Dark Gaia's influence; this influence normally causes people to have negative emotions, which in turn powers up Dark Gaia. In addition, he resisted mind controlling in Sonic Chronicles. This was with the assistance of a special Chaos Emerald, but seeing as how he has all seven here, this should be easy to replicate. This willpower also allows Sonic to keep fighting even when the situation seems bleak and hopeless, and even if he does somehow get mind controlled, it's safe to say that he will do everything in his power to get his head back. Contrary to popular belief, Sonic can actually swim by using his Spin Jump repeatedly in water, but he still can't breathe while submerged, needing to come up for air eventually (unless using certain power-ups listed below).

Techniques and Moves/Miscellaneous
Besides his running speed, Sonic's signature technique is his ability to curl up into a spiky, spinning ball to attack opponents. In Sonic Heroes, this attack can break through the entire Egg Fleet without even moving at the speed of sound. He can perform this attack when jumping, rolling along the ground, homing in on enemies with the Homing Attack, rocketing downward and bouncing off the ground with the Bounce Bracelet, and revving up with the Spin Dash, allowing him to rocket off at top speed from a standstill. The Spin Attack also allows him to burrow through the ground, depending on how soft it is. The Light Speed Dash has him him dashing along a line of Rings at light speed while defying gravity, and the Light Speed Attack combines this with the Homing Attack to create an extremely powerful strike. The Blue Tornado has him running in circles and creating a whirlwind to throw opponents, defenses, or weapons into the air, and he can concentrate this wind into a blade to fire at his opponents with the Sonic Wind. The Boost allows him to create a blue aura of pure speed (or wind, whatever floats your boat) to blast through opponents at top speed without taking any damage, and as stated above, this move far surpasses light speed. This move can also be used in midair, allowing him to rocket forward without even touching the ground. Sonic can also apparently control how hard his quills are, since they appear sort of floppy normally, but in his spinball form, they're razor-sharp. This is also demonstrated in his Up Smash in Smash Brothers. His quills can also sense danger, as shown in Sonic and the Secret Rings. Sonic is also very skilled at riding Extreme Gear (super-fast hoverboards), taking on the world's champion in the field, and then even defeating Metal Sonic, who had copied all the data, skills, and techniques from the top Extreme Gear riders in the world. He can also transfer his speed to other objects, shown when he propels mining platforms forward in Sonic Generations's Planet Wisp stage; this didn't require Sonic to move or even expel any energy. Sonic has also been shown to be extremely skilled at swordfighting, defeating the Knights of the Round Table and even King Arthur himself in Sonic and the Black Knight when wielding the legendary sword Caliburn (which later becomes Excalibur). He is also extremely adaptable to any situation, as he was already that talented at swordplay, Extreme Gear riding, and more from the first time he used them. This means that even if Sonic's abilities are changed, it's safe to assume that he'd be able to grasp them in a snap and use them to their full potential.

Items/Power-ups
Sonic's first power-ups are the Shields. The basic Shield allows him to take an extra hit that would normally prove fatal, but he also has the Elemental Shields, which block a hit like the normal one does, but with added bonuses. The Bubble Shield grants Sonic a bounce attack and lets him breathe underwater, as well as deflecting minor projectiles. The Electric Shield allows Sonic to double jump, blocks small projectiles, and negates electric attacks, but goes away upon contact with water. The Fire Shield gives Sonic a midair dash attack and protects him from fire attacks, but can't touch water without being extinguished.

In Sonic 2006, Sonic obtains special shoes called the Custom Shoes at the beginning of the game. He can then buy upgrades for these special shoes known as Gems (not to be confused with the Chaos Emeralds, which I'll get into later on), of which there are eight. These Gems grant Sonic different abilities, listed below:
- The Blue Gem gives Sonic a speed boost that allows Sonic to reach top speed instantly
- The Green Gem creates a tornado that can be used to attack enemies
- The Purple Gem shrinks Sonic, allowing him to slip through tight areas, as well as jump infinitely
- The Red Gem slows down time, useful for sneaking past enemies in combination to Sonic's natural speed
- The Sky Gem can be thrown, and when it lands, it draws Sonic towards it like a tractor beam
- The White Gem allows Sonic to levitate in place in mid-air to control his direction more easily and enhance his Homing Attack
- The Yellow Gem gives Sonic a Thunder Shield, but without a double-jump
- A mysterious eighth "Rainbow Gem" from the beta versions of the game, the purpose of which is unknown; it likely allowed Sonic to enter his Super form

In addition, the alien power-ups known as Wisps from Sonic Colors grant him different one-time-use Color Power transformations, such as:
- A laser that can pierce through enemies and obstacles, as well as bouncing off surfaces
- A drill that can burrow through soft material and damage enemies/obstacles, as well as giving better underwater mobility and underwater breath
- A rocket that can shoot up into the sky, as well as breaking obstacles and harming enemies
- A spiked ball that can cling onto walls/ceilings, as well as breaking obstacles and harming enemies
- A cube that sends out a shockwave that damages enemies and obstacles, as well as toggling blue rings/blocks
- A hovering green thing that can fly through the air, as well as harm enemies
- A nightmarish giant chomping head thing that grows in size when it eats things, such as obstacles and enemies
- A black hole that can fly, as well as sucking in obstacles and enemies
- A fireball that can fly with explosions, as well as blowing up obstacles and enemies
- A different black hole that creates an asteroid belt with the enemies and obstacles it sucks up, as well as jumping higher with a bigger belt
- An eagle that can soar through the skies, as well as attacking obstacles and enemies
- A music note that can... flop around. (And damage obstacles and enemies! :D)
- A lightning bolt that can move very quickly and travel through conductive substances, as well as attacking obstacles and enemies
- An iron ball that can climb walls, as well as creating shockwaves when it lands, damaging obstacles and enemies
- A bomb that can explode on obstacles and enemies

Now, this is where he really starts to get impressive.

Chaos Powers
The seven Chaos Emeralds are the most powerful artifacts in the Sonic universe, containing ultimate power when combined. Luckily for Sonic, he has access to all seven of them. Using these gems, he can freeze time, slow down time, teleport, and use other Chaos Powers. However, these all pale in comparison to Sonic's ultimate transformation:

Super Sonic Style!
Combining all of the Chaos Emeralds along with fifty Rings (of which he can hold up to 9,999), Sonic can transform into Super Sonic, turning golden and gaining a golden aura. He gains the ability to fly, becomes practically invincible (except to crushing, drowning, and falling into bottomless pits), and becomes even faster. Sonic can jump higher, has increased reflexes to match his increased speed, and becomes much stronger, being able to smash through robots, barriers, and space fleets with his face! He also possesses a reflective shield, waves of destructive golden energy, and the Super Sonic Boost, which is similar to the regular Boost, but faster and more powerful. Of course, this form also allows Sonic to use the aforementioned Chaos Powers, since both use the Chaos Emeralds. The only real limitation to this form is the fact that Sonic needs Rings to maintain this form, and it drains one Ring every second he remains in the transformation. However, as mentioned above, Sonic's maximum Ring count is 9,999 Rings, which would allow him to stay in this form for about two and a half hours. This is plenty for someone of Sonic's speed to finish a battle. Even if he runs out of Rings before the battle is over, he still has numerous backup transformations, such as:
- Hyper Sonic, obtained by harnessing the power of the Super Emeralds (Chaos Emeralds + Master Emerald) and 50 Rings. Basically Super Sonic, but with even further enhanced abilities, a screen nuke, and a seizure-inducing color palette. Used sparingly.
- Darkspine Sonic, obtained by harnessing the World Rings of rage, hatred, and sadness. Grants flight, greater strength, unlimited Soul Gauge powers (which are increased speed with Speed Break and slowing down time with Time Break), and pyrokinetic abilities.
- Excalibur Sonic, obtained using the power of the four sacred swords. Grants flight, a golden suit of armor, a red cape, and the ability to wield the legendary sword Excalibur.
- Sonic the Werehog, induced by Dark Gaia's negative energy. Loses his trademark speed, but retains his agility and gains super strength, stretchy arms, and limited energy manipulation.
- The aforementioned Color Powers granted by the Wisps.

All in all, with his speed, agility, strength, willpower, and the power of the Chaos Emeralds to top it all off, Sonic is truly a force to be reckoned with, able to adapt to almost any situation thrown at him. However, he rarely shows his true potential except when he's in truly dire situations. As said by the Blue Blur himself, "An adventure's no fun if it's too easy!"

Feats
- Defeated several god monsters, such as Dark Gaia, Solaris, the Time Eater, the Biolizard (AKA the ultimate life form), and even singlehandedly defeated Perfect Chaos, which harnessed the power of the Chaos Emeralds, without even using Super Sonic
- Foiled nearly all of Dr. Robotnik/Eggman's plans, from enslaving five entire planets with a space amusement park in order to mind control the world to erasing time and space itself
- Won the Extreme Gear tournaments and even defeated a robot which harnessed the skills of the world's top Gear riders
- Defeated King Arthur himself at swordfighting
- Defeated Ultimate Emerl, who had the abilities of every character in the game as well as the raw power of all seven Chaos Emeralds, in his normal form
- Travelled through time on multiple occasions
- A bunch of stuff that I'm probably forgetting

Source
The Sonic News Network (Sonic Wiki)

TL;DR
Sonic is three times faster than light, agile, strong, invincible for up to two and a half hours, can freeze time, teleport, shred through practically anything with his spinball form, resist mind control, and a whole bunch of other stuff. So yeah.​
 
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Munomario777

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Why are you all still talking about this? We've all agreed that it is Lady Palutena.
Well, Palutena isn't shown to be all that powerful in the games (Pit defeats her in Uprising, and her other powers aren't anything too impressive). "Goddess" in Kid Icarus doesn't really mean "extremely powerful;" Pit, a regular angel, defeats them on a daily basis.
 

Luggy

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So, I thought I'd just make a comprehensive guide to Sonic's abilities, for future reference.

Speed
Sonic's most notable, consistent, and famous trait is his superhuman (or superhedgehog, as it were) speed. As his name implies, Sonic is able to run faster than the speed of sound. Additionally, in the Sonic Adventure DX manual, he is stated to be "the world's fastest, hypersonic hedgehog," hypersonic being speeds ranging from 3,840 mph to 7,680 mph. In fact, in Sonic Unleashed, it's hinted that Sonic can run far beyond the speed of light, since the Light Speed Dash (more on this move later) clocks in at 396 SPD, while Sonic's running speed clocks in at above 2,800 SPD. This speed allows him to scale vertical surfaces as well as wall-run horizontally, and he can also run on the surface of water. He can also run as fast backwards as he can forwards. Despite this speed, however, he can turn very sharply at top speed, and almost never misses his target, since he has reflexes to match his speed. The Drift and the Quick Step can also help him maneuver at high speed. His super speed also has other applications. For instance, Sonic can heal himself by vibrating his molecules very quickly, he can create shockwaves, and he can create an Insta-Shield made of speed energy for a split second to pierce enemy defenses.

Physical Abilities
In addition to his super speed, Sonic also possesses a great amount of agility, being able to dodge nearly anything thrown at him. He can jump several hundred feet in the air, and possesses many jumping techniques, such as a short hop, Spin Jump, Wall Jump, Triangle Jump, double jump, and more midair techniques. He also has great control over his movement, able to dodge attacks swiftly and gracefully despite their incoming speed and his current velocity. While he may not be quite as physically strong as his friend Knuckles, Sonic still possesses superhuman strength. He can push large objects with ease, and he can lift objects much larger than he is while still running at top speed. His Spin attacks are also very powerful, but they'll be getting their own section. Most of his physical attacks involve kicks rather than punches, since that's where his true power lies, between his kicks and his running. For instance, the Stomp can crush many surfaces and defeat many foes, and in Sonic Adventure 2, he was able to topple the huge Egg Golem with just one kick. In addition, Sonic has been shown to be able to tough it through many dangers. He can survive crossfire from all angles, he can smash through several robots with his fist without showing any pain, and most impressively, he can survive atmospheric reentry. He also possesses a great amount of willpower, shown in Sonic Unleashed when he keeps his head when under Dark Gaia's influence. This also allows him to keep fighting even when the situation seems bleak and hopeless, and even if he does get mind controlled, it's safe to say that he will do everything in his power to get his head back. Contrary to popular belief, Sonic can swim by using his Spin Jump repeatedly in water, but he still can't breathe while submerged, needing to come up for air eventually (unless using certain power-ups listed below).

Techniques and Moves/Miscellaneous
Besides his running speed, Sonic's signature technique is his ability to curl up into a spiky ball to attack opponents. In Sonic Heroes, this attack can break through the entire Egg Fleet without even moving at the speed of sound. He can perform this attack when jumping, rolling along the ground, homing in on enemies with the Homing Attack, rocketing downward and bouncing off the ground with the Bounce Bracelet, and revving up with the Spin Dash, allowing him to rocket off at top speed from a standstill. The Spin Attack also allows him to burrow through the ground, depending on how soft it is. The Light Speed Dash allows him to dash along a line of Rings at light speed, and the Light Speed Attack combines this with the Homing Attack to create an extremely powerful strike. The Blue Tornado has him running in circles and creating a tornado to throw opponents, defenses, or weapons into the air, and he can concentrate this wind into a blade to fire at his opponents. The Sonic Boost allows him to create an aura of pure speed (or wind, whatever floats your boat) to blast through opponents at top speed. This move can also be used in midair, allowing him to rocket forward without even touching the ground. Sonic can also apparently control how hard his quills are, since they appear sort of floppy normally, but in his spinball form, they're razor-sharp. This is also demonstrated in his Up Smash in Smash Brothers. His quills can also sense danger, as shown in Sonic and the Secret Rings. He is also very skilled at riding Extreme Gear (super-fast hoverboards), taking on the world's champion in the field, and then even defeating Metal Sonic, who had copied all the data from the top Extreme Gear riders in the world. He can also transfer his speed to other objects, shown when he propels mining platforms forward in Sonic Generations's Planet Wisp stage. He also has been shown to be extremely skilled at swordplay, defeating the Knights of the Round Table and even King Arthur himself in Sonic and the Black Knight when wielding the legendary sword Caliburn (which later becomes Excalibur).

Items

Sonic's first power-ups are the Shields. The basic Shield allows him to take an extra hit, but he also has the Elemental Shields, which block a hit as well, but with added bonuses. The Bubble Shield grants him a bounce attack and lets him breathe underwater, as well as deflecting minor projectiles. The Electric Shield allows him to double jump, blocks small projectiles, and negates electric attacks, but goes away upon contact with water. The Fire Shield gives him a midair dash and protects from fire attacks, but can't touch water without being extinguished. In addition, the Wisps grant him different Color Power transformations, such as:
- A laser that can pierce through enemies and obstacles, as well as bouncing off surfaces
- A drill that can burrow through soft material and damage enemies/obstacles, as well as giving better underwater mobility and underwater breath
- A rocket that can shoot up into the sky, as well as breaking obstacles and harming enemies
- A spiked ball that can cling onto walls/ceilings, as well as breaking obstacles and harming enemies
- A cube that sends out a shockwave that damages enemies and obstacles, as well as toggling blue rings/blocks
- A hovering green thing that can fly through the air, as well as harm enemies
- A nightmarish giant chomping head thing that grows in size when it eats things, such as obstacles and enemies
- A black hole that can fly, as well as sucking in obstacles and enemies
- A fireball that can fly with explosions, as well as blowing up obstacles and enemies
- A different black hole that creates an asteroid belt with the enemies and obstacles it sucks up, as well as jumping higher with a bigger belt
- An eagle that can soar through the skies, as well as attacking obstacles and enemies
- A music note that can... flop around. (And damage obstacles and enemies!)
- A lightning bolt that can move very quickly and travel through conductive substances, as well as attacking obstacles and enemies
- An iron ball that can climb walls, as well as creating shockwaves when it lands, damaging obstacles and enemies
- A bomb that can explode on obstacles and enemies

Now, this is where he really starts to get impressive.

Chaos Powers
The seven Chaos Emeralds are the most powerful artifacts in the Sonic universe, containing ultimate power when combined. Luckily for Sonic, he has access to all seven of them. Using these gems, he can freeze time, slow down time, teleport, and use other Chaos Powers. However, these all pale in comparison to Sonic's ultimate transformation:

Super Sonic Style!
Combining all of the Chaos Emeralds along with fifty Rings (of which he can hold up to 999), Sonic can transform into Super Sonic, turning golden and gaining a golden aura. He gains the ability to fly, becomes practically invincible (except to crushing, drowning, and falling into bottomless pits), and becomes even faster, being able to move at the speed of light. He can jump higher, he has increased reflexes to match his increased speed, and he becomes much stronger, being able to smash through robots, barriers, and space fleets with his face! He also possesses the Super Sonic Boost, which is similar to the regular Boost, but faster and more powerful,a reflective shield, and waves of destructive golden energy. Of course, this form also allows him to use the aforementioned Chaos Powers. The only real limitation to this form is the fact that Sonic needs Rings to maintain this form, and it drains one Ring per second. However, as mentioned above, Sonic's maximum Ring count is 999 Rings, which would allow him to stay in this form for about 16 minutes, which is plenty for someone of Sonic's speed to finish a battle. Even if he runs out of Rings before the battle is over, he still has numerous backup transformations, such as:
- Hyper Sonic, obtained by harnessing the power of the Super Emeralds (Chaos Emeralds + Master Emerald) and 50 Rings. Basically Super Sonic, but with enhanced abilities and a screen nuke. Used sparingly.
- Darkspine Sonic, obtained by harnessing the World Rings of rage, hatred, and sadness. Grants flight, greater strength, unlimited Soul Gauge (increased speed and slowing down time), and pyrokinetic abilities.
- Excalibur Sonic, obtained using the power of the four sacred swords. Grants flight, a golden suit of armor, a red cape, and the ability to wield the legendary sword Excalibur.
- Sonic the Werehog, induced by Dark Gaia's negative energy. Loses his trademark speed, but retains his agility and gains super strength, stretchy arms, and limited energy manipulation.
- The aforementioned Color Powers granted by the Wisps.

All in all, with his speed, agility, strength, willpower, and Super Sonic, Sonic is truly a force to be reckoned with, able to adapt to almost any situation thrown at him. However, he rarely shows his true potential except when he's in truly dire situations. As said by the Blue Blur himself, "An adventure's no fun if it's too easy!"

Feats
- Defeated several god monsters, such as Dark Gaia, Solaris, the Time Eater, the Biolizard (AKA the ultimate life form), and even singlehandedly defeated Perfect Chaos, which harnessed the power of the Chaos Emeralds, in his normal form
- Foiled Dr. Robotnik/Eggman's plans, from enslaving five entire planets with a space amusement park in order to mind control the world to erasing time and space itself
- Won the Extreme Gear tournaments
- Defeated King Arthur himself at swordfighting
- Defeated Ultimate Emerl, who had the abilities of every character in the game as well as the raw power of all seven Chaos Emeralds, in his normal form
- Travelled through time on many occasions
- A bunch of stuff that I'm probably forgetting

Source
The Sonic News Network (Sonic Wiki)
Would be great to see an analysis like this for :4mario: or :4falcon:. Note for Captain Falcon, his Falcon Punch can pretty much blow your head off. It's a fact :
 

Munomario777

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Would be great to see an analysis like this for :4mario: or :4falcon:. Note for Captain Falcon, his Falcon Punch can pretty much blow your head off. It's a fact :
Well, that video assumes it catches on fire from drag rather than some other pyrokinetic ability, and amps up the velocity and acceleration accordingly. Interesting watch, but not completely accurate.
 

Crystanium

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Would be great to see an analysis like this for :4mario: or :4falcon:. Note for Captain Falcon, his Falcon Punch can pretty much blow your head off. It's a fact :
The Blue Falcon drives at subsonic speeds, but the boost power can increase it to supersonic speed for a brief moment. Its mass is 1,259.63 kg. Traveling subsonic would produce a force of (assuming the subsonic speed is 274.4 m/s) 346 kN, or 38.85 tons of force. Can Mario withstand that much force? If not, Captain Falcon wins.
 
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Munomario777

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The Blue Falcon drives at subsonic speeds, but the boost power can increase it to supersonic speed for a brief moment. Its mass is 1,259.63 kg. Traveling subsonic would produce a force of (assuming the subsonic speed is 274.4 m/s) 346 kN, or 38.85 tons of force. Can Mario withstand that much force? If not, Captain Falcon wins.
I think Luggy meant they'd like to see analyses for Mario and Captain Falcon separately like the one I just did, since they quoted my post.
 

Etc_Guy

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So basically futuristic super suit > cloth tunic. :p Nice analysis though.

I do think it would be a nice direction for the thread to have more of these head-to-head in-depth comparisons.
Good work. Basically, Boom vs. Turret in Planetary Annihilation. Your never going to get close with an explosive melee bot against a tower shooting lasers non-stop.

- Foiled Dr. Robotnik/Eggman's plans, from enslaving five entire planets with a space amusement park in order to mind control the world to erasing time and space itself.
I brought up Plankton before because he succeed with it once. Add mind-controlled civilians in the way that have more character than entire franchises, then Eggman looks like an amateur engineer more than a threat. Don't forget that he did it with a formula for a hamburger. And again, Plankton tried to get rich with a amusement park in Revenge of the Flying Dutchman despite not being the villain in that game.

(RotFD was first on the PS1.)
. As said by the Blue Blur himself, "An adventure's no fun if it's too easy!"
There has never been a truly hard Spongebob game, but if I was in-charge of directing one I would make a Lost-Levels style difficult game for him. But for now..... DKC Returns is painfully nail-biting hard enough for the moment.

- Won the Extreme Gear tournaments
That's an impressive feat? Mario and friends have been racing since the SNES while Sonic first started on the Xbox. A real feat is winning the World Champion Boxing Belt. Too bad Sonic would get his face caved in harder than an uber train heavy trying.
 

Munomario777

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I brought up Plankton before because he succeed with it once. Add mind-controlled civilians in the way that have more character than entire franchises, then Eggman looks like an amateur engineer more than a threat. Don't forget that he did it with a formula for a hamburger. And again, Plankton tried to get rich with a amusement park in Revenge of the Flying Dutchman despite not being the villain in that game.

(RotFD was first on the PS1.)
I recommend you take a look at Eggman's history in the Sonic series. He has an IQ of 300, he's released more god monsters than you can shake a chili dog at, he's made entire space fleets, he's a master of manipulation, he's enslaved entire planets, and he's got an army of robots at his command (he also had mind control ready in Colors; Sonic just foiled him before he could do anything with it).
There has never been a truly hard Spongebob game, but if I was in-charge of directing one I would make a Lost-Levels style difficult game for him. But for now..... DKC Returns is painfully nail-biting hard enough for the moment.
And this is relevant how?
That's an impressive feat? Mario and friends have been racing since the SNES while Sonic first started on the Xbox. A real feat is winning the World Champion Boxing Belt. Too bad Sonic would get his face caved in harder than an uber train heavy trying.
Yeah, I'd say winning a super-fast, technical, hover-boarding world championship against a robot with the data of all the champions in that field copied into his own knowledge base is an impressive feat.
 
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