Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?

[josh bones]

Okay, let's look at the middle ground here and see what we can change. Remember, this is NOT A RESEARCHED LIST so feel free to tell me what to change. Make cases for everyone at anytime possible.

S tier

G&W tier.

A Tier
,,,,,,

C tier
,, ,,

D tier
, ,,,,,

E Tier
,,,, Villager, WFT, ,


Couple of conversation triggers.

- What is Lucas' power?
- What power does the Aura lend to Lucario and can it beat the likes of (rhymey) Ikes?
- Is Pokemon Trainer allowed to have any Pokemon he can catch or just the three from Brawl?
- ZSS, how strong is she without her suit and only her blaster? Need some Metroid fans from the Ridley thread to dip in
- Roy, where does he stand?

Kirby in S-Tier, DK in Btier, WFT over villager.

 

[RelaxAlax]

Where is Mega Man?

Oops, added him back.

 

[josh bones]

I feel these should be 24 hours because we've pretty much discuss every matchup

 

[pitthekit]

Kirby in S-Tier, DK in Btier, WFT over villager.

If Kirby is S tier then meta knight is A tier- they are very close in power. In mirror shard Kirby game meta knight could fight evil meta knight to a draw, while Kirby can defeat dark meta knight.


Is Kirby and meta knight the same race?

 

[PadWarrior]

Why is Pokemon Trainer so high? I think Mega Man could be on the same level as Samus. He's got way more options than her.

 

[josh bones]

If Kirby is S tier then meta knight is A tier- they are very close in power. In mirror shard Kirby game meta knight could fight evil meta knight to a draw, while Kirby can defeat dark meta knight.


Is Kirby and meta knight the same race?

Mk is A tier now and yes. Also, can we end the first round now?

 

[RelaxAlax]

Where is Mega Man?

Oops, added him back.

Kirby in S-Tier, DK in Btier, WFT over villager.

But Villager has an Axe. WFT is a fitness instructor. Fitness doesn't equal strength imo.
And Only reason Kirby isn't S is because of G&W. Everyone in S tier can bend reality so to speak. Kirby could attempt to suck G&W up but he doesn't have any thickness on a 3D axes. That was my reasoning otherwise, yeah Kirby is S tier.
And someone made a good case for DK so I'll edit the original post.

 

[josh bones]

Oops, added him back.


But Villager has an Axe. WFT is a fitness instructor. Fitness doesn't equal strength imo.
And Only reason Kirby isn't S is because of G&W. Everyone in S tier can bend reality so to speak. Kirby could attempt to suck G&W up but he doesn't have any thickness on a 3D axes. That was my reasoning otherwise, yeah Kirby is S tier.
And someone made a good case for DK so I'll edit the original post.

Havent you heard "never bring a gun to a knife fight?" Villager is just a little kid, Wii fit trainer is a trained health instructor, she could easily kick the axe out of his hand.

 

[RelaxAlax]

Havent you heard "never bring a gun to a knife fight?" Villager is just a little kid, Wii fit trainer is a trained health instructor, she could easily kick the axe out of his hand.

So we are going by personality? Would this render the Ice Climbers as too innocent to fight?

 

[cmbsfm]

Okay okay, given what I've seen, I'll remove and move up certain characters. The middle tiers were more for discussion and I didn't go into deep thought about who goes where.

S tier

G&W Tier

A tier.

B Tier
(),,,,,

C tier
(All Links), /, , Megaman, ,,
D Tier (Human Tier)

E Tier
/,,, Villager, WFT, ,

Okay, tell me what should be changed.

Captain Falcon deserves his own tier.

 

[josh bones]

So we are going by personality? Would this render the Ice Climbers as too innocent to fight?

age isn't personality lol

 

[Superyoshiom]

Why is DK so low? He punched the moon into the earth!

 

[Muster]

The villager can chop down a tree in three axe swings, i'm pretty sure he's strong enough to take the wft down a few notches. Canonically, all the wft does is yoga poses while the villager runs about fishing growing/chopping trees and such. (and his looks =/= his age, he's old enough to own a house for arceus' sake)

 

[HammerHappy]

Truth. He can lift a stump right out of the ground roots in all in one motion.

Also, he can grab pretty much everything and put it in the hammer space of his pocket.

 

[RelaxAlax]

age isn't personality lol

Okay okay lol, so we're going by age then, like Muster said, Villager does do quite a bit. WFT does yoga poses. But the bottom and top are pretty stable as of now. The middle is where alot of decrepincies and knowledge needs to come into play.

I hear people on the DK argument, but Mario has also hit asterioids and planetary Bowser (SMG2). I've editied my own so it goes Bowser, Dk, and the Mario bros.

I'm currently making a cleaner version with the Brawl Roster Maker, but I'm not posting it until theres some agreement on some of the middle tiers.

 

[PadWarrior]

Mario has thrown Bowser by his tail (Mario 64). He should be higher. Heck the punishment the Mario Characters take in Mario Kart should move them all up a notch lol.

 

[RSF-Blue bomber]

Robots can be hacked cause they a piece of technology.

Heck even I can be hacked with the correct technology

exactly so what stopping him from infectin the fighters. plus you have to be smart to hack him which most of these characters dont know how to do

 

[RelaxAlax]

The thing with the Mario series, as I have now, they don't exceed the strength of certain characters. I believe Lucas' psy powers at the end of Mother are quite hefty, but please, get some Mother fans out here.

Also, above the Mario series are Ike, Samus, and (now) Megaman. Bowser is higher than Mario because he constantly comes back no matter the fight. He also has siza variation throughout. Most of the time he's only defeated by Mario by throwing him into pits. Not actually killing him, which Bowser does to Mario.

 

[PadWarrior]

exactly so what stopping him from infectin the fighters. plus you have to be smart to hack him which most of these characters dont know how to do

LOL can you imagine Wario trying to hack Mega Man.

 

[Superyoshiom]

The villager can chop down a tree in three axe swings, i'm pretty sure he's strong enough to take the wft down a few notches. Canonically, all the wft does is yoga poses while the villager runs about fishing growing/chopping trees and such. (and his looks =/= his age, he's old enough to own a house for arceus' sake)

On that note, I'm wondering if Villager's pocket move is canon or not.

 

[RelaxAlax]

This debate is very topsy turvy, as there are so many discrepancies and unknown circumstances of characters versus another. What if the only reason Ganondorf can't be beat is because there isn't technology that can do so? What if Samus' charge shot blasted right through him? At the same time, we need to stay as canon as possible, or people like Olimar will come out on top :D

 

[deebeethedeity]

Lmao why is snake so high when hes jjust a man with guns. His power level isnt great at all. And ness and pkmn trainer being s tier is ******** as well as link being below mario with kirby being higher.

 

[sakuraZaKi]

Do we consider anime C.Falcon Punch canon?

 

[salaboB]

And Only reason Kirby isn't S is because of G&W. Everyone in S tier can bend reality so to speak. Kirby could attempt to suck G&W up but he doesn't have any thickness on a 3D axes. That was my reasoning otherwise, yeah Kirby is S tier.

Suction doesn't need a leading edge to grab it, it would work all along G&W's exposed sides.

Try this: Blow at the edge of a sheet of paper lying on a desk. It'll move.

G&W having almost no mass (Due to 2d) I'd guess he'd actually get sucked in easier than almost anything else.

I also don't think G&W is unstoppable because of his matter creation unless he can self-clone. Since there's no evidence of that, if something could tear apart G&W somehow that would be the end of it.

We really don't know if he has a destructible core or not. Couldn't he die in G&W games?

 

[RSF-Blue bomber]

Lmao why is snake so high when hes jjust a man with guns. His power level isnt great at all. And ness and pkmn trainer being s tier is ******** as well as link being below mario with kirby being higher.

i agree with you with snake. but ness has powerful psychic abilities and red has powerful pokemon.

 

[RelaxAlax]

Lmao why is snake so high when hes jjust a man with guns. His power level isnt great at all. And ness and pkmn trainer being s tier is ******** as well as link being below mario with kirby being higher.

1. ******** isn't a word that needs to be used when there are tons of other, more acceptable words to replace it
2. Look back on the thread and see why all of those are the case.

Suction doesn't need a leading edge to grab it, it would work all along G&W's exposed sides.

Try this: Blow at the edge of a sheet of paper lying on a desk. It'll move.

G&W having almost no mass (Due to 2d) I'd guess he'd actually get sucked in easier than almost anything else.

Using an accidental double post to say -- I don't think G&W is unstoppable because of his matter creation unless he can self-clone. Since there's no evidence of that, if something could tear apart G&W somehow that would be the end of it.

We really don't know if he has a destructible core or not. Couldn't he die in G&W games?

You make a good point. But he isn't paper thin - he is infintely thin. The suck wouldn't do a thing to him. Thing with G&W is does he even have an IQ? He's so ambiguous that all we know is he is 2D in a 3D plane. Realistically, everyone in Smash wouldn't be able to see him in way Smash has them fighting. AmazingAmpharos brought the suggestion that since he's this thin, he can cut through anything. If Kirby sucked him then Kirbys insides would be cut up.

Everyone above G&W is either more invincible then him or have ways of bending reality (Super Sonic with Light Speed, Ness with PSI, Mewtwo, etc.)

i agree with you with snake. but ness has powerful psychic abilities and red has powerful pokemon.

Snake is highly trained in combat and has extensive battle knowledge, but i agree he's a bit high. That list isn't in stone, and I'll post a newer one later when I feel more questions have been answered.

 

[pitthekit]

Mr game and watch is sentient? He must have thought processes... The people in flat world have. Thought but that could just be plot

 

[JediLink]

I think Mega Man could be on the same level as Samus. He's got way more options than her.

Way more weapons, maybe. Where Mega Man fails is mobility. Samus can fly around and put fools in their place with her shinespark. All Mega Man can do is slide.

 

[salaboB]

You make a good point. But he isn't paper thin - he is infintely thin. The suck wouldn't do a thing to him. Thing with G&W is does he even have an IQ? He's so ambiguous that all we know is he is 2D in a 3D plane. Realistically, everyone in Smash wouldn't be able to see him in way Smash has them fighting. AmazingAmpharos brought the suggestion that since he's this thin, he can cut through anything. If Kirby sucked him then Kirbys insides would be cut up.

Two things:
1) I don't think Kirby's insides work like that.
2) Infinitely thin just means no mass at all to resist the suction along his sides. He'd go in.

Everyone above G&W is either more invincible then him or have ways of bending reality (Super Sonic with Light Speed, Ness with PSI, Mewtwo, etc.)

Nobody has effectively demonstrated why G&W could be expected to be so durable. Plus unless I missed an assumption of only facing each other (And even in Smash they have ways to step outside the 2d plane and could see G&W clearly then -- hold shield and tap down ) he'll be easily detectable. Well, that and two eyes on most people would be enough to actually see him just because of the separate viewpoint, he can only be directly head-on towards one. One strike from anything that hits more than straight on (Explosion, a sweeping kick, whatever) and I see no reason G&W wouldn't break in half.

He's protected in game from the same thing that protects people like Peach from significant injury when she takes a missile to the face, so I don't think you can get any kind of toughness indicator from Smash behavior.

Regarding the infinite matter: Not proven at all. You can draw blood from me and I'll be fine too, it grows back. G&W's ink may be powerful so you can do a lot with small quantities, but nothing says that he wasn't given time to regenerate it or that he couldn't run out if he were drained rapidly/for too long a time. He also demonstrates zero capability to produce a long term external creation without outside help. All of his moves that involve creating matter also have that matter vanish within seconds.

I really don't think G&W is any kind of serious contender.

 

[RSF-Blue bomber]

Way more weapons, maybe. Where Mega Man fails is mobility. Samus can fly around and put fools in their place with her shinespark. All Mega Man can do is slide.

two words time stopper

 

[JediLink]

two words time stopper

Mega Man can't actually attack while time is stopped. The only thing it's going to help him with is running away.

 

[Banjodorf]

Ganon?

I want to see Ganon fight Mega Man and Ness/Lucas now.

 

[PadWarrior]

Mega Man can't actually attack while time is stopped. The only thing it's going to help him with is running away.

MM4, he can use Bright Man's weapon to stop time on Pharaoh Man and he can attack.

 

[JediLink]

MM4, he can use Bright Man's weapon to stop time on Pharaoh Man and he can attack.

Flash Stopper only works on Pharaoh Man though. On every other Robot Master it does nothing, so presumably it's not going to do much against all the powerful characters in Smash.

 

[Banjodorf]

Any list that doesn't have Mewtwo, Ganon and Rosalina in the top tier is wrong.

Fanboying can only get you so far when objectively those characters are the most powerful in their existing universes and even others.

Also, I'm going to say that if you're going to put PT here anywhere, it has to be PT using the Pokemon he has in Smash. Otherwise it's not the same character.

Mega Man's also pretty good. Although Sonic has his weakness.

 

[RSF-Blue bomber]

Mega Man can't actually attack while time is stopped. The only thing it's going to help him with is running away.

actually yes he can because in megaman 8 he was able to attack with the mega buster even when he has a weapon equipped

Any list that doesn't have Mewtwo, Ganon and Rosalina in the top tier is wrong.

Fanboying can only get you so far when objectively those characters are the most powerful in their existing universes and even others.

Also, I'm going to say that if you're going to put PT here anywhere, it has to be PT using the Pokemon he has in Smash. Otherwise it's not the same character.

Mega Man's also pretty good. Although Sonic has his weakness.

bro really megaman fought needle man and he didnt die instantly. so sonic is no different.

 

[Starbound]

Viridi can revive Pit whenever he dies.

Viridi is immortal.

By proxy, Pit is immortal as well.

 

[JediLink]

actually yes he can because in megaman 8 he was able to attack with the mega buster even when he has a weapon equipped

There's no evidence to suggest that he'd be able to use multiple powers simultaneously. In Mega Man 8, he can't actually shoot his Mega Buster and another weapon at the same time.

 

[RSF-Blue bomber]

There's no evidence to suggest that he'd be able to use multiple powers simultaneously. In Mega Man 8, he can't actually shoot his Mega Buster and another weapon at the same time.

have you seen the lets plays yet of megaman 8. dont worry you will find it.

 

[JediLink]

have you seen the lets plays yet of megaman 8. dont worry you will find it.

I just started up Mega Man 8 to verify this. You cannot shoot while swinging with the Thunder Claw, i.e. you can't use two powers simultaneously.

EDIT: Besides, even if Mega Man's time stopper worked exactly like Flash Man's (which it doesn't), that still would not make him invincible by any stretch. It can only stop time for a few seconds, allowing Mega Man to only get a couple of buster shots in before it's a fair fight again.