I'm assuming this thread is bringing back the topic about white pikmen in general b/c I haven't seen anything like this in a while, the topic name is "white pikmen," and the conversation is starting to move in a different direction. Forgive me if this is the wrong place. Hopefully, this will clear up some misunderstandings about white pikmen in general. ~thanks
This is all my opinion btw. In the future, pikmen won't be used to get extra damage onto your opponent.(!!!, so hurt me) They'll simply be used to play mind games with your opponent. Your opponent might try to dodge the little guys, then you can run in and grab/smash or w/e. Or they'll hit the pikmen off and you can punish their lag or punish them not paying you their attention fully. Generally speaking, either way you've got yourself an advantage after throwing the pikmen. With my prediction, the white pikmen won't be used to rack up damage WHEN THROWN, but rather thrown off the edge or whistled past. The extra latch damage from throwing them, the combo ability, and the little extra grab range and hit damage(only 4% more a hit w/ a grab, i'll explain in a minute)won't be able to compensate the bad priority and bad regular hit damage.(these two, I find more important than either of the other two) Here is my reasoning:
1.)~Grabbing~
Code:
Red Blue Yellow White Purple
F-throw 6 13 7 6 7
D-throw 9 12 8 6 8
U-throw 9 12 11 6 11
B-throw 7 14 9 7 9
Throw hit 2 2 2 4 2
ok... this is part of the damage chart I stole from NC-Echo's wonderful guide. It shows the pikmen, damage of each hit, and throw damage.
Question: are whites actually better for grabbing?
Not particularly. they may have a little extra range on the grab and 2% better on the hit damage, but that doesn't account for some of the other factors.
-grab throw damage-
blues have proven themselves the victor in this category. they deal more damage and more knockback than regular pikmen.(which is only especially good at high%)(blue's knockback is not higher than purple except on backthrow, but Ps have bad range on the grab remember)
-comparison of total damage-
if you add the damage from hitting your opponent while they're grabbed(assuming 1 hit on average) + the actual throw damage, you'll find that it doesn't stack up to the others. If you want to play the devil's advocate and argue that you can pull off multiple hits, then you're assuming they're at a high percentage. If they're at a high percentage, then either you haven't done a good job killing them, or shouldn't even be using whites in the first place(b/c whites can't finish your opponent properly)
Code:
throw+ 1hit Red Blue Yellow White Purple
F-throw 8 15 9 10 9
D-throw 11 14 10 10 10
U-throw 11 14 13 10 13
B-throw 9 16 11 9 11
2.)~Damage~
This is a given. they don't do as much damage with regular attacks. simple as that.
3.)~Combo-ing~
Whites are, however, good for combo-ing as koloblican11763 mentioned in the topic sentence. this can be applied to the grabs and attacks at low percentages. The only problem I have with this is that whites have much lower priority than the other pikmen.
I think white pikmin are a great way to combo and rake up SERIOUS damage if one would just learn how to use them. I mean imagine this, you do a U-smash with a white, your opponent barely flies and still gets a few percent, you imidiatly u-tilt or u-air and wham thats another 15% easy, then you f-air b-air with another white pikmin, and then you d-air them them with any other pikmin, this spikes them into the ground, and assuming that you SHFFLed your **** you would be in perfect position for a smash or grab. White pikmin are great because they PERFECTLY set up for your next move. I have never been punished after using a white pikmin unless they were below 35% or I was using a f-smash or d-smash. They are great for knocking them just out of their range but perfectly in range of your next move.
Will these two balance out each other on a scale? bad priority v combo potential? They directly affect the other.
I'm not the one to answer this. Based on your opponent's skill level, you'll have to decide. I'd say that generally at the pro level in a year or two, the bad priority won't be able to stabilize your ability to combo. Good DI by your opponent will have too much influence on your ability to combo effectively.
~Examples~
Ex.1 you grab your opponent with a red at say...above 40%. you downthrow then try to combo with the white that's next in your line. Will they dodge or DI correctly away from you?, or will they realize you have your white out and use their dair or fair? Either way, you've not utilized your party to its fullest extent. you most likely won't hit them, they might even hit you, and if you had a different pikmen, the outcome might turn out differently.
Ex.2 You throw pikmen at your distant opponent(at 50%) trying to get them to come closer. you have a white next in your line when they get to you. The only thing a white is good for in this common situation would be to grab them with it. they realize you have the white that has low priority, and they SH their fair or bair. They successfully either hit you, or lowered your shield b/c you had a white.
there's many other ways I could go with this and I could give y'all some more examples, but it'd be pointless. You now understand these kind of scenarios if you didn't already.
In conclusion, I don't find whites to much use in the pikmen lineup. Their grabs aren't better than the other pikmen's grab, and the bad priority of the white pikmen directly combats their ability to combo. At low and high percentages alike, pikmen throw will be used to distract your opponent rather than to deal actual damage, and the extra white poison damage will not be factored into the equation. Whites, in my opinion, should be thrown at your opponent immediately after acquiring them, thrown off the edge of the stage, or whistled past.
have I skipped anything important?
