White Halloween - An Ice Slasher and Skull Barrier Introduction

[Locke 06]

There is no reason to pick Ice slasher over the mind games of Crash Bomb or the unique trajectory KO option of Danger Wrap

??? I don't know anyone who actually uses Ice Slasher. Pretty much everyone on the board agrees that it's garbage.

I can’t really think of any situations where I would recommend taking Skull Barrier over Mega Man's other DownB options.

For shame. Let's give Ice Slasher and Skull Barrier a chance, shall we? They make for very interesting tools in Mega Man's arsenal, and, as everything else in his kit, serve a useful purpose. I would argue that these two moves can help swing matchups in Mega Man's favor. So without further ado:

White Halloween - An Ice Slasher and Skull Barrier Introduction

Mega Man's horizontal spacing game is ridiculous. Megabuster shots (lemons) and Metal Blades (MB) can be fired constantly with incredible mobility, stuffing approaches. This allows you to retreat safely when needed with the pellets while using hit-confirm tactics to follow up MB's with grabs, dash attacks, etc. Not to mention his FAir & BAir are disjointed and have good knockback. This we can agree on.

Now what's the hole in his defensive game? The wall of projectiles with a good grab in addition to a quick & mobile DTilt slide and a punishing UTilt can keep the majority of the cast in mid-range while being very safe. The issue is stage control. Sometimes you can't follow up Metal Blades, and sometimes you can't get the sweetspot of the lemons to knock them back. It's fine though, you're safely retreating, but you are losing the positional battle. In the long run, I think this will become a major problem for Mega Man as he has no projectiles he can throw out that do decent knockback. Nothing like Villager's Slingshot or Link/Samus' projectiles. Item MB's have decent knockback, as do leaf shield/plant barrier, but they require a break in your projectile wall to set up. This is why crash bombs that explode on contact against things like Luma are valuable.
Enter: Ice Man

Ice Slasher fills this niche incredibly nicely. On hit, it freezes the opponent and launches them up in the air, ripe for UAir juggling or a quick aerial if they don't mash out quick enough. More importantly, you gain complete stage control. This is huge for opponents that thrive on bullying themselves in or forcing you into a corner. Marth, for instance, is incredibly hard to regain stage control against because he covers options so well. Go over him and his UAir has a great arc. Roll behind him, and he can dancing blade you to the other side of the stage. You need to bully him back head on, and Ice Slasher can fill that role as a projectile with knockback. One hit from anywhere will give you every bit of the stage back that you gave up while retreating and immediately put you in an advantageous position. This is similar to Crash Bomb in that it's very useful when you are in a bind. However, Crash Bomb forces the opponent to do something while Ice Slasher doesn't give your opponent an option, they are going to be launched up and frozen if they get hit.

Now, it's not a magical elixir. This move has its flaws. It does a measly 4%, its range is not the best (about 2 dtilt slides or just outside of pellet range), and it is not as fast as Crash Bomb. It also doesn't freeze at low %'s; in exchange, it freezes longer at high %'s. But if you like to stay at mid-range anyway, the range is "good enough," and the reward on hit is instant and can be greater than crash bomb rewards. The reward on block is slightly (but not insignificantly) better as well, as it does shield damage where Crash Bomb does not (until the explosion), which can help you get a shield stab with a dtilt and keep pressure up with projectiles. Furthermore, it is a physical projectile like a metal blade, which helps against characters like Ness & Game and Watch.

Pros:
- A horizontal projectile with knockback!
- Shield Damage
- Freezes allowing for free followups if not mashed out of
- Launches up, giving you UAir juggles, time to reset, and landing traps.
- A physical projectile (can't be bucketed or PK Absorbed)

Cons:
- 4% of damage (Mega Man's dps will forever be low)
- Limited range (about 3 character lengths beyond max pellet range or 2 dtilt slides whereas MB is about 2.6 dtilt slides)
- A little laggier (compared to CB, but about the same activation/end lag as DW)

Suggested MU's to use in: - Generally, quick characters that deal with crash bombs well, slow characters that can bully themselves through your defenses on the ground, and stage control.
/ (all I can think of so far. I haven't done a whole lot of real person testing with it, but these are the matchups I definitely plan to use it for. Piercing property probably will help somehow, but I haven't found it useful yet. Will update after more input and testing/MU experience)

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So, you're playing the mid-range. Your opponent has a projectile too, but you're pretty content to cancel theirs out with lemons and continue. ? I'll cancel your uncharged water shuriken with pellets and jump over your fully charged ones. ? Hah, I'll cancel out everything you throw at me except Thoron, but you're not going to be able to charge that, and even when you do let lose, I'll just jump over it. I am the king of mid-range already, and long range isn't a problem because
you can close the gap between long & mid-range so easily. You can't out camp me, I'm and I will impose my will on you by pushing my wall of projectiles on you.
Enter: Skull Man

As dominant as Mega Man is at mid-range, what if I told you he could be even more dominant?

Think of all the reflectors/projectile neutralizers in any Smash character moveset. None of them allow for flexible movement as they either hold you in place (Fox/Ness/G&W/Pit Down-B/Rosalina/Villager) have a set distance (ROB/Pit Side-B) have few active frames and is somewhat of a melee attack (Mario/Falco/Palutena/Zelda). Only Link/Toon Link's Hylian Shields offer any type of movement flexibility and those are only work while walking towards the projectile or standing still and the shields don't cover all of their hurtbox.

An 11 frame reflector that stays out for 100 frames, multiplies damage & speed of reflected projectiles x1.2, has 0 lag when it ends, and allows you to have all of your mobility/defensive options (sans up-B) along with grab and item throwing and a special projectile the size of Bowser. This. Is. Skull barrier.

No other reflector in a moveset allows you to shield, walk, run, grab, or throw out your own projectile while reflecting. None. The most apt comparison to Skull Barrier is the Franklin Badge item. This is a unique move in Smash Bros. and makes Mega Man's defense against projectiles the best in the game. Bold claim? Maybe, but it is one that I am willing to argue.

Projectile users are notorious for baiting reflectors. Mega Man users should know how to do this, as it's a good strategy to pair with our utilt kill move. If you get baited into using Skull Barrier, guess what? You can still defend yourself. You can even be offensive with a metal blade in hand or using grabs. Furthermore, if you time when the barrier dissipates, you can do absolutely anything you want when it's gone with no interruption from Skull Barrier. It should be noted, however, that the move does not continue to reflect once you have thrown it.

What holds this back from being incredibly overpowered is, of course, the activation startup and activation end lag. However, if you are fighting at mid-range, an 11 frame activation is plenty fast. Given the average human reaction time of 1/4 of a second or 15 frames (which most competitive fighting game players have above average reaction times), that is 26 frames to reliably activate Skull Barrier in time to reflect something. If you are at mid-range/long range, 26 frames is plenty of time as the projectile has to be shot and needs to travel to you. At mid-range, you should be able to reliably reflect Samus' missiles, WFT's projectiles, and Duck Hunt's projectiles (minus the quick gunman) on reaction. This is on top of using it simply to deter any projectiles when it's up and you are moving freely. You are able to approach the edge of their melee range with 0 resistance.

And then there's some untapped edge guarding potential. Since the total time you have Skull Barrier around you is less than Leaf Shield/Plant Barrier, you can activate it as you jump off the stage, double jump, and easily up-B back to the stage. You can also use it as a gigantic projectile, but its main purpose here is to reflect projectile recoveries. is going to hate this move as it works exactly as you would imagine with no risk of allowing to hit Ness and have him PK Thunder Missile you. will hate it too, because Elwind meteor's himself upon activation upon reflection (and if you get there a little late, the Elwind is reflected up and hits him for damage). After some very brief testing in training mode, these are the only two recoveries I can confirm its use for. Other obvious possible candidates for Skull Barrier edge guarding include Mii Gunner, Yoshi, and Greninja. Yoshi had mixed results as the eggs pop him up. Might be useful at low %'s, but it's not going to gimp him. Skull Barrier boosts Greninja's Hydro Pump recovery distance a little bit and does maybe 3-4% of damage to him. It could be used to make him recovery too high so that he lands on the stage vulnerable, but more testing needs to be done. I don't know anything about Mii Gunner's recoveries, but Lunar Launch and Canon Uppercut seem similar to Robin's Elwind, making it perfect for Skull Barrier edge guarding. I encourage you to try this out and report any findings!

Pros:
- A reflector which allows you to reflect while doing other actions
- See point above. It's worth 2 bullet points. You are basically giving yourself a Franklin Badge.
- Reflector stays out for 100 frames, which is longer than any other reflector that cannot be held indefinitely
- Multiplies speed and damage of reflected projectiles x1.2
- When the reflector goes away, you suffer no lag
- You gain a Bowser-sized projectile that can hit twice for 2% each, possibly leading to follow ups. (Would love to see people explore this)
- Edge guarding potential

Cons:
- 11 frame startup (which is only 2 more than Pit's down-B 1)
- You lose all of the Leaf Shield/Plant Barrier hitbox techs

Suggested MU's to use in: - Projectiles. Just about all of them. From most useful to least (again, haven't done a whole lot of testing, so this is mostly off of theory. If requested, I can explain each one in depth in a spoiler tag)


Side note: Skull Barrier also has a small push/windbox where the skulls are. Not sure how useful this is, but it is part of the move so I'll just leave it at that. Also, it has a reflector health of 25%. If the reflector is overwhelmed by a single projectile, it will "break" and the projectile will go through the reflector. Notable projectiles that deal +25% are Samus' fully charged charge shot fresh, fully charged dense charge shot, Lucario's fully charged Aura Sphere at +110%. WIP

Personal note: I cannot say enough about Skull Barrier from a theory standpoint. I have very limited experience actually testing it, but this move single handedly can swing matchups towards Mega Man's favor. I have very strong hopes for Skull Barrier in competitive play.
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Ice Slasher and Skull Barrier are mostly defensive tools. Ice Slasher can patch up stage control issues by giving Mega Man a spammable projectile that will give you complete stage control on hit, along with the opportunity for UAir juggles and landing traps. Skull Barrier is a unique reflector that, although has slow startup, allows for mobility while reflecting deterring almost all projectiles while it is active. I hope I've encouraged more exploration with these moves, as they definitely have their merits. They could very well be the worst of their respective directional special custom options, but that doesn't mean they are useless. Mega Man can gain a lot from customs, and I think all of his customs are worth exploring due to their great variety and utility.

That wraps things up for now. I'm sure I'll edit this as more Mega Man players start to find techs and uses for these custom moves. Matchup testing and discussion is greatly encouraged, but please keep it to Ice Slasher/Skull Barrier specific topics. And as always, if you have questions, you should ask them.

Enjoy the Winter, everyone.

Special thanks to my editor: @Parcheesy for helping me not make a fool of myself and keeping my stream of consciousness writing habits in check.

 

[ChopperDave]

Nice write-up!

Question: What makes Ice Slasher better for stage control than Danger Wrap and/or Tornado Hold and/or Hyper Bomb? With customs on, these moves all give you some nice knock back to help you reset to neutral and create follow up opportunities.

I'm still not convinced that Skull Barrier is worth the trade offs. Leaf Shield / Plant Barrier hitbox techs are just sooooo good. Without those you lose a lot of mix up options.

Like most reflectors, Skull Barrier relies on good prediction if you want to convert it to advantage. (If you mispredict, the best you can hope for is to reset to neutral by throwing it.) Whereas, in my opinion, LS and PB both create advantage whenever you get them out.

 

[Locke 06]

Danger Wrap's trajectory makes it ineffective at mid-range against people who like to stay grounded. It's pretty short ranged if people don't jump. Tornado Hold isn't really a projectile in the normal sense (also, you lose some horizontal recovery by giving up Rush) and you give up Metal Blade stuff with hyper bomb (in addition to it's slow arcing trajectory). The big argument for Ice Slasher is that it gives you a mixup with metal blade and lemons that is spammable. It's horizontal range is greater than Danger Wrap's.

Edit: It's like a slower crash bomb that explodes on contact with less range. Everyone loves that in the Rosalina matchup.

I had a feeling you'd say that about LS/PB techs. Skull Barrier isn't good prediction, you can use it on reaction. This can seal projectiles completely against you. Also, Skull Barrier is not like most reflectors, in that if you mispredict, you can still do a ton of other things. With a metal blade in hand, you can throw the metal blade, you can grab, etc. You're not as disadvantaged as say, Fox, if he mispredicts a reflect. You can use it on prediction too, but it's more of an approach against projectiles/react against projectiles move than traditional reflectors.

Oh, forgot to mention SB multiplies damage and speed of projectiles x1.2. That's somewhat important. (editing post now)

 

[ChopperDave]

There is an element of prediction with SB because it takes longer to get out than most projectiles. 11 frame start up isn't that bad, but against faster projectiles that's just too long to use on reaction.

I will admit that it can be quite nice to put projectile spammers at a disadvantage for 100 frames or so while not losing your mobility or ability to throw MBs, should you have one in hand. At the same time, unless you actually manage to reflect something, LS and PB give you most of the same positional advantage -- their hitboxes clank with many projectiles when rotating around you, and when thrown they eat projectiles while powering through and hitting your opponent.

You may want to mention in the OP that Skull Barrier doesn't reflect certain powerful projectiles like Samus's fully charged charge shot and (I think) Robin's Thoron, and stops reflecting stuff when you throw it. That hurts its viability somewhat.

 

[Fenrir VII]

I actually agree with your synopsis of Ice Slasher vs rushdown chars. I wonder if its speed would hurt it in this regard against like Sonic (who otherwise, I could see it being very useful against)...
You've also got me thinking that the piercing projectile might work like Metal Blade on Rosa and hit her + luma both, which would be interesting.
I'll be darned... you've convinced me that IS might have uses. ...dangit. Time for testing.



Now Skull barrier... I agree with your points but I think it has limited uses matchup-wise, although it does well at those. For example, I don't really care about using skull barrier in a matchup like Mario or Luigi, because we can cancel the fireballs out a number of ways, and leafstooling is too valuable to give up in those matchups.

Now there are matchups that I don't really think leaf shield/plant barrier are incredibly useful, so throwing that away for a reflector is a decent trade. Samus comes to mind here, as I'm not sure leafstooling is the best option against her (and even leaf rolling, etc isn't great)
Against Ness or Robin, really a leaf shield has 90%of the usefulness in edgeguarding that SB would have, and their projectiles aren't too scary as is. You could make a case for Robin moreso than Ness

So I have to consider... is it more important to shut down this char's projectiles or to have my leaf gimmicks (disregarding SB gimmicks like wind spiking because I'm not sure how good it would be)
That leaves me with as possibilities, imo. The other characters that you listed are not (imo) projectile focused enough to give up leaf shield for a reflector.

Of those, seem like a lasting reflector significantly changes their gameplan and provides a better benefit than leafstooling (which I actually like against ROB, DHD, and WFT, but we have other options).

The rest... I could see it being a wash as to which is better between LS and SB.

But we've made a point that SB is more useful that LS in at least 6-7 matchups.... making it significant.


So for the custom moves project.. since we have limited spots, I would suggest 1 "standard" IS loadout and 1 "standard" SB loadout.

looking at the matchups, I would likely say that vanilla loadouts with the 1 move changed for both sets would be optimal. your thoughts?

 

[Jimbo_G]

This made me actually feel like Skull is useful, which up to this point I haven't been able to do anything with. Also, I've always liked the Ice move, but it's horrendous speed has made it impossible for me to use effectively. I'll have to play around with Ice as a rush-down stopper, because so far its slow speed has made it exactly the worst against rushers.

 

[Locke 06]

@ ChopperDave - I thought I addressed it, but 11 frame startup is enough to reflect most projectiles in the game on reaction. We're a bit spoiled because Mega Man's projectiles are so quick. Like I said in the post, 26 frames is the bar for reflecting on reaction. At mid-range (or long range), where you want to be as Mega Man, 26 frames is quick enough to reflect the majority of projectiles in the game due to their startup and projectile speed. Off the top of my head, the ones that I don't feel comfortable saying I can reflect on reaction at lemon range are

Spoiler

Needles, luma shot, star bits, quick fireball, quick gunman, Falco/Fox lasers, Item toss, Mega Man stuff, Pikmin throw (and smashes), villager slingshot (and smashes), Bowser/Charizard firebreath, Lucario force palm, Pacman Key. Semi-confidently I'd say I could reflect Samus charge shot, Thoron, Yoshi egg toss, (Dark) Pit arrows, Pacman fruits and Pikachu Thunder, but I would want to test those out.

Also, you can reflect Thoron. Someone brought it up in the custom moveset thread on how you they were able to reflect it on reaction from long distance.

Again, this is from mid-long range. Most projectile moves have at least a 12 frame startup and that will only hit on frame 12 if you're at point blank range (where they don't like using it anyway). I'd be curious to see how fast each projectile is (character lengths/frame measurement possibly), but considering it has to be slow enough so that it doesn't look like the projectile is warping at 60fps, 26 frames is fast enough. I'd be hard pressed to see a Fox/Falco reflect a projectile on reaction at the very beginning of their reflector's active frames.

@ Fenrir VII I tried Ice Slasher with @Parcheesy a bit. Crash Bomb's superior range, speed, and activation/end lag make it a better option in that matchup. To the lab hyperbolic time chamber!

I know you cancel out projectiles with a number of ways (I'm sure our Luigi friend knows this well), but give reflecting them a shot. Like I said in the post, Mega Man is already a god against them... this puts him over the top. Not only are you reflecting, but you can approach while reflecting (following the reflected shots!). I'm also somewhat bad at leafstooling/using leaf shield, so that's a personal issue of mine that is on my list of things to address. However, I didn't know what I was missing until I tried Skull Barrier out. I still negate with pellets more than reflect, but it's an incredible tool.

Here are some of the breakdowns on the matchups. (In a spoiler so it's not so big)

Spoiler

- We can't cancel out PK fire because it travels too low, and it's also Ness' main tool to start combos/land that dirty backthrow. Approaching with SB, especially towards the latter point of its active frames, I think will be very effective as they can't throw out their PK fire and, with proper timing, you can start using whatever you want.

- His projectiles aren't scary because we don't get hit by them. Do you know who they're scary to? Himself. Also, I think this is important due to Robin's ability to throw his tomes & sword (for like... 20%. It's ridiculous). When I tested out the edge guarding I just found it hilarious. I'm sure leaf stooling works fine, but this is just... too funny.

Didn't put on there because leaf shield is too good against his recovery.

- Isn't projectile focused, but T-jolt following is a solid approach that can duck under our lemons. (This is the same with the Mario bros)

- Needs testing, but I think you can turn his mechakoopa against him just by walking next to it. His playstyle needs serious developing as his moveset is super cool... but taking away the mechakoopa and the canonball will be huge if he ever gets figured out. It's like taking away 's can (We have won WWI for the time being)

- His smashes are projectiles. With SB, if he's on the ground he becomes Solimar with a grab. That, and taking away long-range pikmin throw, is awesome.

- Theoretically we could use her paralyzer against her... paralyzer>utilt just sounds amazing. It's just an additional tool in the matchup (but I agree, I think I put her too high on that list).

You missed (it's okay, I missed the Pits) and I think this is actually very important as it takes away his force palm spacing option (yes, this is a projectile and it can be reflected) and his aura spheres. Especially at high %'s when they like to spam force palms that have the distance of 1/2 FD, I think it could be very useful.

is only there because I have never found LS/PB useful and it you could fire it up in response to a turnip pull. Definitely least useful.

- We play Mega Man so differently... I feel like this would really piss me off as someone who likes to play defensively. It also takes away the charge shot landing trap.

- Isn't projectile oriented? Gyro's, FAirs, and BAirs are like... all I see from them for the most part. Also, the idea of reflecting the tree makes me giggle (until they pocket it back...).

- Eggs have a longer range than lemons. I think it's worth at least trying out to discourage egg camping, but leaf shield is very good against him.

@ Jimbo_G - Yeah... the speed is awful. I don't think it's great against fast rushdown characters (like Sonic or Fox), but I think it's good for those slow bullies that don't care about taking 10% of damage for the opportunity to wreck your face with moves that do 15% each (Really... I could only think about Ganondorf when writing it and one bad experience). It's a mixup option that is better than the other 2 in certain matchups, which makes it deserving of some consideration.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

As a note, I just ran with Mega Man on the 3DS, and while it takes 11 frames for the move to fully activate, the reflect box is up as soon as he makes the motions. It's saved me a number of times on my Smash Runs.

 

[Locke 06]

As a note, I just ran with Mega Man on the 3DS, and while it takes 11 frames for the move to fully activate, the reflect box is up as soon as he makes the motions. It's saved me a number of times on my Smash Runs.

I'm a little unsure about that. I'm pretty sure the reflect box is up at 11 frames, which is when the first skull appears. It takes longer to fully activate the move (IASA frames is probably around 30 or something like that), but the reflect box is definitely not instant.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

You might be right. I wasn't sure how to measure the frame count accurately at 1/4th speed, but the reflection does happen fairly quick, quick enough that you can use it on reaction if the projectile isn't already in your face.

 

[ChopperDave]

11 frames is roughly 1/6th of a second.

I was exaggerating earlier -- it's only got a slow startup relative to other reflects, and it's still perfectly usable on reaction.

I just have a bias against reflects and counters because I'm terrible at using them in time, particularly online

 

[Z1GMA]

Really nice stuff, Locke. Might contribute later.

 

[Locke 06]

Thanks, Z1gma. I'm glad people are giving this a chance. I was really hesitant myself to try them out until I analyzed them fairly. Ice Slasher is slowly growing on me as my personal preferred crash bomb alternative over danger wrap (although I do need to try that out in more matchups).

Also, the skull barrier intro paragraph is basically what happened to me when I first started using the move. I encourage defensive play against me because I'm defensive and can play that game better than other characters due to negating projectiles... But it's like the difference between gravity pull and fox's reflector. Not only do the projectiles not work well because of negation, the threat of skull barrier makes throwing out projectiles dangerous against mega man.

 

[Z1GMA]

Skull Bombing
Skull Barrier and Crash Bomber can create some nasty shenanigans.
While you're in Skull Barrier, Crash Bombs don't affect you. This makes it perfectly safe to grab ppl when they're shielding the explosion from the Crash Bomb. With good timing, you won't run the risk of getting hit when going from the grab, since the Crash Bomb will hit them if they try to harm you.

Grabbing ppl who's got a Crash Bomb stuck to them can pay off pretty well damage-wise:
Pummel + CB Explosion + Throw (+ potential Throw Combo)
It can often deal between 20 and 30%, depending on the circumstances.

Another thing you can do while the both of you are inside the explosion, is to Utilt your foe while he/she is in explosion-stun (which you yourself totally ignored since you were in Skull Barrier).
This happens when the skulls disappears at the end of the explosion.
Surprisingly, though, the timing isn't as hard as it might sound. It's actually pretty easy to pull this off.

Skull Advantage (Embarrass)
If you throw the Skull Barrier at the right distance, it hits the opponent twice, giving you a good amount of Frame Advantage.
This can sometimes lead to grabs, thanks Skull Barriers low ending-lag.
This is something Leaf Shield and Plant Barrier cannot do.

 

[Z1GMA]

Also, I don't know why, but the Crash Bomb doesn't do double damage to the opponent when you reflect it at them.
At least not from what I've experienced so far. Can somebody confirm this?

edit: If it does do double damage, this could turn out to be some crazy ****.

 

[ENKER]

Sweet! I didn't think that crash bomb would go well that with skull! Nice, Z1GMA!

 

[Locke 06]

Also, I don't know why, but the Crash Bomb doesn't do double damage to the opponent when you reflect it at them.
At least not from what I've experienced so far. Can somebody confirm this?

edit: If it does do double damage, this could turn out to be some crazy ****.

It should only be amplified 1.2x based on the multiplier. So instead of 8, it'd do 9.6%

 

[ChopperDave]

Skull Bombing
Skull Barrier and Crash Bomber can create some nasty shenanigans.
While you're in Skull Barrier, Crash Bombs don't affect you. This makes it perfectly safe to grab ppl when they're shielding the explosion from the Crash Bomb. With good timing, you won't run the risk of getting hit when going from the grab, since the Crash Bomb will hit them if they try to harm you.

Grabbing ppl who's got a Crash Bomb stuck to them can pay off pretty well damage-wise:
Pummel + CB Explosion + Throw (+ potential Throw Combo)
It can often deal between 20 and 30%, depending on the circumstances.

Another thing you can do while the both of you are inside the explosion, is to Utilt your foe while he/she is in explosion-stun (which you yourself totally ignored since you were in Skull Barrier).
This happens when the skulls disappears at the end of the explosion.
Surprisingly, though, the timing isn't as hard as it might sound. It's actually pretty easy to pull this off.

Skull Advantage (Embarrass)
If you throw the Skull Barrier at the right distance, it hits the opponent twice, giving you a good amount of Frame Advantage.
This can sometimes lead to grabs, thanks Skull Barriers low ending-lag.
This is something Leaf Shield and Plant Barrier cannot do.

Oooh, neat find. I wonder if that was intentional? It's kind of goofy because Skull Barrier doesn't seem to protect you against other explosions. (I tested with xBomb and smart bomb.) Still, that's pretty useful as a Crash Bomb follow up, if still a little situational. You'd need to be careful when setting this up because all your opponent needs to do is dash attack on response to transfer the bomb, damage you, and knock you back.

IIRC you're wrong about the Skull Advantage thing, though. I think both LS and PB can set up into unavoidable grabs - LS does it when you hit a grounded opponent from above (and doesn't need to hit twice because it has the highest knock back of the three), and PB can hit twice to give you frame advantage, same as SB. I chain into grabs out of LS tosses all the time.

 

[Z1GMA]

Alright.
Anyways, it's nice that Skull Barrier can do stuff like this, so that's it's not only for reflecting : )

 

[Azazel]

Pros:
- A horizontal projectile with knockback!
- Shield Damage
- Freezes allowing for free followups if not mashed out of
- Launches up, giving you UAir juggles, time to reset, and landing traps.
- A physical projectile (can't be bucketed or PK Absorbed)

Cons:
- 4% of damage (Mega Man's dps will forever be low)
- Limited range (about 3 character lengths beyond max pellet range or 2 dtilt slides whereas MB is about 2.6 dtilt slides)
- A little laggier (compared to CB, but about the same activation/end lag as DW)

So Ice Slasher fill the niche of a horizontal projectile with knockback? That describes what Fsmash does.
How does using Ice Slash compare to just using Fsmash? the so called advantages of Ice slasher sound like the everything that Fsmash has.
So is it just Ice Slasher that can be used airborne, faster, less laggy, with a more vertical angle.
Fsmash has more knockback, damage, priority.
Is Ice Slasher worth losing Crash Bomb or Danger Warp if Fsmash is comparably similar?

 

[Fenrir VII]

So Ice Slasher fill the niche of a horizontal projectile with knockback? That describes what Fsmash does.
How does using Ice Slash compare to just using Fsmash? the so called advantages of Ice slasher sound like the everything that Fsmash has.
So is it just Ice Slasher that can be used airborne, faster, less laggy, with a more vertical angle.
Fsmash has more knockback, damage, priority.
Is Ice Slasher worth losing Crash Bomb or Danger Warp if Fsmash is comparably similar?

Essentially, ice slasher is less laggy than fsmash so it's a heck of a lot safer in neutral on block or miss

 

[Locke 06]

So Ice Slasher fill the niche of a horizontal projectile with knockback? That describes what Fsmash does.
How does using Ice Slash compare to just using Fsmash? the so called advantages of Ice slasher sound like the everything that Fsmash has.
So is it just Ice Slasher that can be used airborne, faster, less laggy, with a more vertical angle.
Fsmash has more knockback, damage, priority.
Is Ice Slasher worth losing Crash Bomb or Danger Warp if Fsmash is comparably similar?

You've basically laid out the key points, but you seem to undersell them at the same time. I'd also add that IS has more range than an uncharged FSmash. Also, it is a physical projectile that can be canceled with a pellet. The key point here is that it's less laggy, but the others are important as well. Also note that you're not giving up Fsmash for IS.

MU's that I've found crash bomb to be not great at - speed characters that can somewhat ignore the bomb and use it as an opening to get past the MB/Pellet wall to pressure/transfer the bomb or quickly dart out of range & shield. Also, G&W/Ness(/mii gunner?) who can bucket/absorb the explosion.
I'm not a big fan of Danger Wrap, because of its limited horizontal range. This is probably due to my personal playstyle, and I'd love to work it into some matchups like maybe Sheik, ZSS, Yoshi, Puff, and Kirby due to their aerial assaults, but sometimes I really feel the lack of a horizontal projectile with knockback. Fsmash doesn't do it for me.

You're welcome to disagree, this was designed as a post to get people thinking about the moves and experimenting with them instead of discarding them aside for "superior options."

 

[digiholic]

Also, Ice Slasher can be fired in the air, which is a huge leg-up over Fsmash in terms of spacing.

 

[CopShowGuy]

That's interesting about the Skull Barrier and the Crash Bomb explosions. I'll have to play around with it more. I was never a huge fan of Ice Slasher though. Maybe I'll play with it more as well.

 

[Locke 06]

So, lots of talk about Ice Slasher being useless with the whole customs debate. So I'll bump this thread to make it more noticeable.

While I've really come to enjoy Crash Bomber's shield damage, I still take IS more than Danger Wrap. Mega Man is incredibly good at juggling opponents with his disjointed UAir (that move is amazing). IS sets your opponent up for it on hit. It may not be the killing move people want with Danger Wrap, or the mind game/shield pressure of crash bomb, but it's a huge asset to have in a horizontal zoning game. It serves a similar purpose to Crash Bomber in that it allows him to convert on an advantage that is gained from a mid-long range poke.

 

[ENKER]

IS can set up Uair? How come I haven't tried this... If you told us this earlier, I completely forgot, sorry! I'll totally try this out later!

 

[Locke 06]

I mean... IS puts your opponent in the air. Uair isn't guaranteed, but you have them in a juggle situation, which you can trap their landing with.

 

[Blade Knight]

How do you feel about Ice Slasher vs Bowser? At a glance Bowser's very ripe for Up Air juggles, and his best (really only) option for getting down vs it is his Down B, which is very punishable. Plus he's also a stage bully with his Up Smash, Tilts, and forward, up and back air and this could keep him from approaching. It could be a valuable choice in that matchup, plus it beats out tough guy unlike Crash Bomber and Lemons.

 

[Sleek Media]

I can't seem to find any use for Ice Slasher. It's slow, and when it does hit, the damage is paltry, and it knocks opponents too far away for any kind of followup. Crash Bomb seems to be completely superior.

 

[Blade Knight]

I've got a practical example for you. Just yesterday I was playing against a friend of mine's Little Mac. This Mac's no slouch, certainly better than the dime a dozen macs you see on For Glory. He knows how to approach and shield and has good spacing to boot. Even with my lemons and metal blades, controlling horizontal space is very difficult vs Mac, he can power through them with smashes, use his absurdly safe and fast dodge along with shielding to get in, go for a Side B and tack damage onto me from a decent range while also forcing me to flee or fight close up, or he can even just punch our stuff out of the air with his magic priority fists. In this Matchup crash bomber and danger wrap are unideal in my opinion because Mac both spends little time in the air, and will never jump in on you, and because he can close range so fast that the crash bomber will likely end back up on you!

Conversely, Ice Slasher was very helpful in this matchup, as I could throw it out at ground level and force Mac to do one of a few things all of which are favorable since the Ice Slasher's endlag is fairly low, so we're committed to nothing at this point.
1) Commit to shield, giving me space and punish options.
2) Commit to a roll, giving me a read opportunity since I'm not committed to anything at this range.
3) Jump over it, allowing me to begin juggling him or to catch him on landing.
4) Get hit, giving up all his horizontal space and being flung high into the air, ready to be juggled.

Armoring through this move isn't an option since it freezes on hit, and since we can fire it at ground level Mac is put into a pretty big pickle. The damage here isn't what we're worried about, but the utility and set up potential of this move is so high vs some characters. Also it makes for a hilarious and fun edgeguard vs Mac, since landing one off stage against him instantly seals a stock in most cases.

 

[ENKER]

I never thought of that, let me make sure I understand this correctly: Despite super armor, Ice Slasher will freeze opponents? This should not be ignored, if true!

 

[Blade Knight]

That's definitely what it seemed like in my playing against the Mac yesterday, it may have just been convenient timing but I'm fairly sure that's how it played out.

 

[Fenrir VII]

I think IS is clearly the best option against a number of chars, honestly....

.,, are all pretty clear.... ,. seem so as well, and then there's other chars where it's at least a good option alongside Crash Bomb or DW, like ,,,,,,, etc.


I think there's a lot of potential here, and a number of matchups where IS vs DW would be a very tough decision for me...

I'm generally very pro-crashbomb, but seriously, all 3 of the Side-B's are good for different scenarios. I think it's important to have all 3 represented in any set of custom specials

 

[Sleek Media]

I've got a practical example for you. Just yesterday I was playing against a friend of mine's Little Mac. This Mac's no slouch, certainly better than the dime a dozen macs you see on For Glory. He knows how to approach and shield and has good spacing to boot. Even with my lemons and metal blades, controlling horizontal space is very difficult vs Mac, he can power through them with smashes, use his absurdly safe and fast dodge along with shielding to get in, go for a Side B and tack damage onto me from a decent range while also forcing me to flee or fight close up, or he can even just punch our stuff out of the air with his magic priority fists. In this Matchup crash bomber and danger wrap are unideal in my opinion because Mac both spends little time in the air, and will never jump in on you, and because he can close range so fast that the crash bomber will likely end back up on you!

Conversely, Ice Slasher was very helpful in this matchup, as I could throw it out at ground level and force Mac to do one of a few things all of which are favorable since the Ice Slasher's endlag is fairly low, so we're committed to nothing at this point.
1) Commit to shield, giving me space and punish options.
2) Commit to a roll, giving me a read opportunity since I'm not committed to anything at this range.
3) Jump over it, allowing me to begin juggling him or to catch him on landing.
4) Get hit, giving up all his horizontal space and being flung high into the air, ready to be juggled.

Armoring through this move isn't an option since it freezes on hit, and since we can fire it at ground level Mac is put into a pretty big pickle. The damage here isn't what we're worried about, but the utility and set up potential of this move is so high vs some characters. Also it makes for a hilarious and fun edgeguard vs Mac, since landing one off stage against him instantly seals a stock in most cases.

While freezing through super armor is interesting, this sounds wrong to me. How are you not committed when throwing ice slasher? It has a full second of startup. In the Little Mac matchup specifically, how are you even able to throw it without eating his sideB?

 

[Blade Knight]

Because Mac approaches linearly. If you've bought yourself even a little sapce to fall back on fading back while firing Ice Slasher is a great way to keep Mac at bay, and nothing's stopping you from continuing to throw it out. You can avoid eating his side B as well for the same reason, fading back via short hops while firing puts it just high enough that it'll catch his side B but also low enough that he can't comfortabley just dash at you.

To clarify on the committedness thing, I meant at the end of the move. If you've fired the Ice Slasher you're free to perform your next action based on if it hit or missed unless you got trigger happy and spent frames doing another action.

 

[Blade Knight]

Okay, sorry to double post but I just did some lab testing vs Various characters with super armor.

Ice Slasher Beats:
Most of Little Mac's armor (based on timing, if he punches it he just nullifies the projectile)
Bowser's Up Smash
Pac Man's Side B armor (after eating the pelet)
DK's up B
Bowser Jr's Side B
Bowser Jr's Side B Spin out
Ike's Eruption except at VERY MAXIMUM CHARGE
Ike's Aether (in the air, if his sword doesn't hit it on the downswing)

Ice Slasher Fails to beat:
Dedede's Armored Jet Hammer (but to be fair neither do mega upper or a fully charged down smash)
DK's Max Charge Giant Punch (if he has to blow that then it's still a hella favorable trade)
Little Mac's Down Smash at any time
Yoshi's Double Jump armor (none of our moves besides Fsmash and Bair beat that)
Ike's Aether (right before he jumps)
Charizard's Rock Smash (though it can freeze him after the boulder has shattered)

In conclusion Ice Slasher is a decent choice vs most armored attack, but is not an end all be all option.

Also some neat stats I found:
Will kill DK outright from the ground on Omega stages at about 170% (we have better options)
Freezing effect starts at exactly 25%.

 

[p1ay6ack]

Okay, sorry to double post but I just did some lab testing vs Various characters with super armor.

Ice Slasher Beats:
Most of Little Mac's armor (based on timing, if he punches it he just nullifies the projectile)
Bowser's Up Smash
Pac Man's Side B armor (after eating the pelet)
DK's up B
Bowser Jr's Side B
Bowser Jr's Side B Spin out
Ike's Eruption except at VERY MAXIMUM CHARGE
Ike's Aether (in the air, if his sword doesn't hit it on the downswing)

Ice Slasher Fails to beat:
Dedede's Armored Jet Hammer (but to be fair neither do mega upper or a fully charged down smash)
DK's Max Charge Giant Punch (if he has to blow that then it's still a hella favorable trade)
Little Mac's Down Smash at any time
Yoshi's Double Jump armor (none of our moves besides Fsmash and Bair beat that)
Ike's Aether (right before he jumps)
Charizard's Rock Smash (though it can freeze him after the boulder has shattered)

In conclusion Ice Slasher is a decent choice vs most armored attack, but is not an end all be all option.

Also some neat stats I found:
Will kill DK outright from the ground on Omega stages at about 170% (we have better options)
Freezing effect starts at exactly 25%.

i tried ice slash on a computer lil mac, and i was surprsied how much stage control i was getting. the knockback from ice slash comes with a less dmg cost, but i think the pay off is worth it. you get stage control. you "can" read the trajectory of your opponent after freeze effect sets in. you use it as a hilarious horizontal gimper. it's a neat move to use and should be considered as a custom move set

about getting the trajectory freeze read, ive noticed at a certain percentage, if your opponent is coming in to do a dash attack, and you ice slash them, they get stuck in a trajectory that arcs right above you. this can be followed up by tornado or up smash, forcing your opponent to go airborne and trying to land. this gives megaman a huge advantage in stage control. and i like playing megaman aggressively and im having fun with ice slasher

the only bad side to ice slash is its a bit slower than crash bomb, and comboing this with tornado hold is bad. well, it was bad for me. if my opponent throws me off the ledge horizontally, and im in hit stun, i pretty much lose. this wasn't a problem with rush, but you can see megaman struggling with recovery here. its bad to use ice slash as you are recovering with tornado hold, cuz ice slash takes a bit more time to finish than crash bomb, when you finally manage to tornado hold, it might be too late for you. rush sovles this

 

[Sleek Media]

What combos can you perform with Ice Slasher? Also, can Skull Barrier be used for gimping with its different knockback angle?

 

[Blade Knight]

I'm having dfficulty finding true combos with the Ice Slasher, but again that's not really it's purpose. I think if you practiced Z-Drop metal blades or angled diagonal ones could be used for true combos. With some crafty use of Hyper Bomb I think plenty of true combos would be found, but in my brief testing with shadow blade and metal blade I couldn't find anything.

In a short answer for Skull Barrier, no, not at all. In that regard it's more or less a straight downgrade from the Leaf Shield/Plant Barrier. Still, it's a reflector that activates instantly which is nice.

Edit:
@ ENKER could you do some testing with Hyper Bomb+Ice Slasher and see if you can come up with anything?

 

[Locke 06]

Skull Barrier has the same knockback angle as Leaf Shield (Sakurai Angle/semi-spike) with less knockback. Other than its reflecting properties while it's on you, I don't think I can see it working better than Leaf Shield as a gimper (in fact, I see it working worse).

That said, you could reflect a villager who decides to ride his Lloid, which essentially capes him. Or reflect projectiles characters like to cover their recovery with to gimp/kill them.

I would be wary of any combos you find with IS, because the amount of time the opponent is frozen is dependent on their mashing/% and they're usually too high for anything guaranteed if they are frozen for that long. Its utility comes from the positional advantage you gain on hit. Not so much of anything being guaranteed.

Also, I'll tag @ ENKER for you, Blade Knight. Edits don't notify the tagged person because Smashboards is dumb.