What's More Broken #Pi

[Bones0]

Yoshi with a 20-frame parry
vs.
Ganondorf with a x2 speed increase on all attacks​

Yoshi's parry works the same as it does now, but he is able to JC any time during the first 20 frames of shielding instead of just the first 5. Yoshi suffers no hit lag or shield stun during the first 20 frames of his shield's animation the same as a normal parry.

Ganon's speed increase applies to all of his smash attacks, aerials, tilts, specials, and grab. It applies to the startup, cooldown, and the move itself. To envision what this new Ganon's attacks would be like, simply choose a move from his frame data thread, divide it in half, and round up to the nearest integer. Ganon's dair hits on frames 16-20 and has 17 frames of landing lag when L-canceled. This new Ganon's dair would hit on frames 8-10 and would have 9 frames of landing lag. Did someone say 4-frame grab?

Which is more broken?​

 

[Dart!]

Fox's shine

 

[Purpletuce]

Falco. Falco using only b moves. Fox. Shiek.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

What Ganon's new frame data would be

crap idk what to do with odd numbers... I guess I'll round up

Jab

Total: 11
Hit: 2-3
IASA: 10
___________

Forward Tilt



Total: 15
Hit: 5-6
___________

Down Tilt

Total: 18
Hit: 5-6
IASA: 18
___________

Up Tilt

Total: 57
Hit: 41-82
IASA: 56
___________

Dash Attack

Total: 20
Hit: 4-8
IASA: 19
___________

Forward Smash



Total: 33
Charge frame: 5
Hit: 10-12
IASA: 30
___________

Down Smash

Total: 25
Charge frame: 7
Hit: 10-11, 15-16
IASA: 24
___________

Up Smash

Total: 27
Charge frame: 4
Hit: 10-12, 13-15
IASA: 20
___________

Neutral Air

Total: 22
Hit: 4-4, 8-9 (v1.0) or 10-11 (later versions)
Auto cancel: <2 11>
Landlag: 13
L canceled: 6
___________

Back Air

Total: 18
Hit: 5-8
IASA: 15
Auto cancel: <3 10>
Landlag: 13
L canceled: 6
___________

Forward Air

Total: 22
Hit: 7-10
IASA: 18
Auto cancel: <3 17>
Landlag: 13
L canceled: 6
___________

Up Air

Total: 17
Hit: 3-8
IASA: 15
Auto cancel: 11>
Landlag: 13
L canceled: 6
___________

Down Air

Total: 22
Hit: 8-10
IASA: 19
Auto cancel: <2 18>
Landlag: 18
L canceled: 9
___________

Warlock Punch

Total: 60
Hit: 35-36
___________

Gerudo Dragon


Total: 40
Hit Window: 8-17
___________

Gerudo Dragon Hit


(removed hitlag frames from pictures)
Total: 13
Hit: 2-4
Upon striking from the air…
Landlag: 20
Landfallspeciallag: 20

Otherwise
Landlag: 10
Landfallspeciallag: 10
___________

Dark Dive

Total: 32
Grab: 7-17
Direction choosing: 7
Landlag: 15
Landfallspeciallag: 15

Grabs edges from both sides as early
as 23

If it hits…
Hit: 2-3, 5-6, 8-9, 11-12
Releases on frame 13
Free falling 30 frames after release
___________

Wizard's Foot

Total: 39
Hit: 7-17
Total (ends in the air): 35
If you hit a wall, 30 frame animation

Aerial Wizard's Foot

Total: 29
Hit: 8-15
Landing hit: 1-2
Landing animation: 29


So while the moves are faster, the hitboxes are also out for half as long. I think I would still give it to Ganon though.

 

[Ripple]

why not just make it a constant parry? always jump OOS.

also, yoshi can only jump OOS in the first 5 frames, not 7.

 

[MasterShake]

I think shorter hitboxes are bad for ganon.

And he's still too slow to combo off his hits.

Maybe if his run speed was doubled too.

Oh wait now he's falcon.

 

[BTmoney]

Better/stronger falcon lol. My vote goes to 2x ganon.

 

[ElloEddy]

...... imagine someone spamming his fair like it was MARTH ...2x ganon win this

 

[_wzrd]

first instinct goes to ganon.

he would definitely be more immediately incredible as a character & probably have a huge rise in popularity because he'd have incredible offensive capability.

but a really dedicated yoshi could make some ****in magic happen with that shield, someone like armada picked him up (patience/great defensive skill/strong punishment when he does get the hit) could do some scary **** with him. being able to block most approaches & punish them freely would be terrifying.

hell, I'd just bump them both up a good handful up spots, but ganon would probably still come out on top, just because it'd be immediately easier to grasp & be less "gimmicky"

 

[bubbaking]

Bowser with no lag on his upB and with a Turbo button that actually makes everything frame perfect.

 

[UltiMario]

Bowser with no lag on his upB and with a Turbo button that actually makes everything frame perfect.

Nah bubba you're not trying hard enough.

Up-B cancelled Up-B is the way to go.

Mash that B-button.

 

[saska]

ganon would probably destroy shields

 

[Jockmaster]

I think that they would be exact opposites. Ganon would become an offensive truck and Yoshi would become extremely difficult to hit.

I would give the edge to Ganon because his ability to zone people out would be absurd with aerials that fast

 

[Ripple]

I would like throwing out 2 up airs with ganon in a short hop with the second one auto cancelling also

:I

 

[Purpletuce]

You guys do know yoshi can combo gannon hard, and a 20 frame parry that can't be grabbed, shield poked, stunned or broken would make yoshi invincible for 20 frames more or less. Gannon would still get hitlag based off of damage, and yoshi can simply release his shield into d smash on him.

If you aren't clever, think of it like this, yoshi parry wave dashes with varying timing and would have a 50/50 chance of being invincible, then if gannon hits him hd gets a free combo.

That is if the yoshi doesn't even try.

Note: if yoshi had constant parry he could just want until he got a 1% lead then hold parry until timeout.

 

[bubbaking]

You say "hold parry" like it's something that Yoshi can hold indefinitely. Are you aware that the 'parry' is simply Yoshi's initial shielding animation. It HAS cooldown and it CAN be punished if baited.

 

[Purpletuce]

Don't insult me.

Read my post before you criticize it, my comment regarding 'holding the parry' was under the contect 'if' it was indefinite. This was referring to Ripple's comment.

 

[Pi]

wut .

 

[Bones0]

wut .

I thought you were banned. Glad you're back. I made it #Pi because KirbyKaze made the last one #3.14. lol

 

[bubbaking]

Don't insult me.

Read my post before you criticize it, my comment regarding 'holding the parry' was under the contect 'if' it was indefinite. This was referring to Ripple's comment.

Goodness, man! Where the heck did you get an insult out of my post? My words weren't demeaning in the slightest. I was simply replying to your post under the context of the OP (20 frame parry). I didn't know you were replying to Ripple. Still, you kind of overreacted there. His post was a bit back and yours gave absolutely NO indication that you were replying to Ripple. Use quotes next time if the post you're replying to isn't directly before yours.

#Posting101

 

[Purpletuce]

I wasn't even directly replying to ripple, I said "if Yoshi had a constant parry . . ." Also, I'm in class off and on. Sometimes I post from my phone which is slow, and I don't want to load a new page, so I just go.

I feel slightly insulted that you think I don't understand an essential part of my main's play. Wouldn't you be insulted if I assumed you didn't know how to use Shiek and told you how to do something with her? Maybe something like needle cancelling?

Also, I'm currently taking 17 credits and I had a midterm this week, and 3 more coming up. . . I guess I might be on edge. I tend to do that a lot. . .

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Dude, relax... I main ganon and I know nothing about my character, no frame date, hitboxes, nothing.

Ripple told me literally everything I know about the technical aspects of this game. In fact, only the other day, I learned ganon has some sort of buff in ver. 1.0

It's not an insult man, it is what it is.

On another note: ganon double speed. He can already break out of combos with an up air. Imagine if it took half the time. And then there's the question of hitting him... not gonna happen. I WANT THIS GANONDORF

 

[VoiD-]

Ganon's throws seem like they'd be pretty dumb with half as much endlag + 4 frame grab

 

[bubbaking]

I can understand the stress. Used to double major in Biochem and ChemE. Ugh, that was bad...

Lolz, Sheik is a bad example. She's my secondary (weird one, I know ). I main Samus.

I can understand the indignation, but as Pseudo said, my statement's not mean to be an insult.

All that said, an indefinite parry would definitely be OP and would actually make Yoshi MK-level banworthy. You can't fight something with unlimited invincibility; it's just not possible. Your only hope would be to play on RC to try to force him to stop shielding via the stage's movement.

 

[Purpletuce]

definitely banned. . . also, YOshi could just WD oos -> parry to deal with moving stages. . . since the entire thing would take 10 frames, nobody would even be able to react to it, so gannon would have to guess when yoshi would wd, and if he messes up, he gets punished. . .

Also, I'm a bio major chem minor, so kinda biochem.

 

[Anand]

definitely banned. . . also, YOshi could just WD oos -> parry to deal with moving stages. . . since the entire thing would take 10 frames, nobody would even be able to react to it, so gannon would have to guess when yoshi would wd, and if he messes up, he gets punished. . .

Also, I'm a bio major chem minor, so kinda biochem.

Don't insult me. Wavedashing OoS takes more than 10 frames.

 

[The Business]

definitely banned. . . also, YOshi could just WD oos -> parry to deal with moving stages. . . since the entire thing would take 10 frames, nobody would even be able to react to it, so gannon would have to guess when yoshi would wd, and if he messes up, he gets punished. . .

Also, I'm a bio major chem minor, so kinda biochem.

Don't insult me, I know what you meant by bio major chem minor.

 

[Anand]

Don't insult me, I know what you meant by bio major chem minor.

Don't insult him; your post has a comma splice, and Purpletuce is a highly educated college student.

 

[KrazyKnux]

Don't insult him; your post has a comma splice, and Purpletuce is a highly educated college student.

Don't insult him. It's not like he's writing an English paper.

 

[ElloEddy]

And you. Could just abuse grabbing yoshi and ****ing that parry meta up .....:-)

 

[Bones0]

You can't grab a parry.

 

[Anand]

And you. Could just abuse grabbing yoshi and ****ing that parry meta up .....:-)

Don't insult us. Parry beats grab. Also, we don't smile in this thread, so make that an open parenthesis at the end.

 

[Purpletuce]

Oh Yeah, 10 frames of lag. Yoshi has a 6 frame jump, so actually 16 frames.

Don't insult me insulting you. This will get confusing.

 

[-ACE-]

Super Ganon, easily.

 

[Zodiac]

Regular Falco is more broken than any of this.

 

[Bones0]

I hope that's a joke. Both of these characters would **** on Falco.

 

[whitegirlwednesday]

falco not even close to broken as peach/puff LOOOOOOL smh scrubs

 

[Purpletuce]

^Obviously salty because they always try to CC D-smash and don't DI rest setups. Those two characters are the best noobslayers, yes.

 

[Bing]

Super Ganon would be hilarious. You could space fairs like a boss.

 

[whitegirlwednesday]

^Obviously salty because they always try to CC D-smash and don't DI rest setups. Those two characters are the best noobslayers, yes.

just saiyan ...... peach and puff hella noob frendly compared to spacies