What's going to happen with the Zelda franchise in Smash this time?

[cybersai]

So we have Link, most likely Zelda/Sheik will return, but what's going to happen with Ganondorf and Toon Link? And will there finally be a 5th character added?

Ganondorf has remained a clone for two games and people are tired of it. Its really disturbing when you realize the main villain of Zelda is a clone of Captain Falcon of all people for god sakes. I understand in Melee he was probably rushed in but he wasn't fixed for Brawl and its a disgrace.

Toon Link has Wind Waker HD being released but why is he still a clone? There is so much diversity with Toon Link they can do in terms of moves its mind blowing Sakurai doesn't bother.

And why was Zelda the only franchise not to get a new character in Brawl? Zelda is Nintendo's top-tier franchise and it gets no new characters at all?

 

[Curious Villager]

Zelda did get a newcomer in Brawl. It was Toon Link. He replaced Young Link. And honestly, Mario didn't really get any new characters either.

I'm not really sure what they are going to be doing with the Zelda cast honestly. I'm certain we are guaranteed to get Ganondorf and Zelda in their Twilight Princess design's again. Sheik will likely look the same way as she did in Brawl.

I'm not sure what they are going to do with the second child Link though. Oh, and please don't use the Spirit Train argument, it's flawed and it doesn't tell us at all about what they are going to do with Toon Link. If he does return, I'm sure they will try to differentiate him from Link a bit more.

 

[Curmudgeon]

And why was Zelda the only franchise not to get a new character in Brawl? Zelda is Nintendo's top-tier franchise and it gets no new characters at all?

What? Zelda DID get a newcomer and many series didn't

 

[Hong]

I think Zelda will remain as a spellcaster and will be fine-tuned. I think all she needs is some more range on her normals to better define her, and offset her light frame. As crazy as it sounds, I would not be upset if Sheik was cut but the fighting style was used for another character entirely; I am not sure if we can ever succeed the vision of switching between Sheik and Zelda as a worthwhile, core, mechanic. A lot of us switch to Zelda for her recovery, but it's still not enough.

I think Ganondorf will come back with a new fighting style, using swords and sorcery to compliment strong kicks and jabs. The new design team can and will make this happen.

We do not know what direction the roster is going now. If it sitting around 33 or so characters, this may well be it. If we are going into the 40s, then I can definitely see another Zelda character.

 

[Vann Accessible]

I'm kinda thinking Toon Link will get axed and we'll get a new Zelda character this time around.

The three most likely new candidates seem to be Ghirahim, Tingle and Skull Kid.

And I'd love it if Ganon got revamped. Hover jump and energy balls. That's all he really needs.

 

[Artsy Omni]

Because Link, Zelda and Ganondorf are, at this point, the most stable characters in the franchise, with all other characters playing rather small roles in comparison. When there are other franchises yet to have a single rep, one can't expect the franchises that are already hugely represented to keep growing. It's greedy.

 

[FalKoopa]

Well, there's a lot of pesimism about Toon Link's chances, I see.

I'm not sure about Zelda getting a newcomer this time. Nor am I sure about what Zelda or Ganondorf will look like. Only time will tell.

My. So much uncertainty.

 

[Artsy Omni]

Well, there's a lot of pesimism about Toon Link's chances, I see.

I'm not sure about Zelda getting a newcomer this time. Nor am I sure about what Zelda or Ganondorf will look like. Only time will tell.

My. So much uncertainty.

I second what others have already said. Link is his TP design, so it only makes sense that the others will follow suit.

 

[FalKoopa]

I second what others have already said. Link is his TP design, so it only makes sense that the others will follow suit.

Well, I think it's not really impossible to fit SS Zelda or OoT Ganondorf in the new art-style. While I'm half-expecting them to keep the TP look from Brawl, I hope they use the ones I mentioned previously.

 

[Artsy Omni]

Well, I think it's not really impossible to fit SS Zelda or OoT Ganondorf in the new art-style. While I'm half-expecting them to keep the TP look from Brawl, I hope they use the ones I mentioned previously.

It's not impossible, but it would definitely feel disjointed, and I don't know if Sakurai would abide that. Toon Link made sense because he kinda represented his own branch of the Zelda series, but to have 3 different game styles there is a bit odd. Though I'm a sucker for Zelda's SS design (she's adorable), I doubt it'll happen. But one can dream.

 

[DakotaBonez]

How the hell could they get rid of Toon Link? He Represents like half of the zelda games!
I know people don't like characters like Roy and Young Link getting cut, but Young Link really only represents Ocarina of Time and (More Importantly) Majora's Mask, whereas Toon Link's adventures span across 5 games. Then again maybe we'll get Retro Link, from ALTTP, The Oracle games, Link's Awakening the 2 NES titles and the new 3DS title.
Ya gotta have an alternate Link in the roster. Link has too many greatly varying iterations to be represented by just one character.
Nothing's been confirmed yet but Toon Link appearing as part of a stage seems like pretty strong evidence against him returning.

 

[Tweezer Salad]

Ghirahim will replace Ganondorf and Skyward Sword link will replace toon link. (same as normal link except with lips)


ALL IS LOST!

 

[FalKoopa]

Ghirahim will replace Ganondorf and Skyward Sword link will replace toon link. (same as normal link except with lips)
ALL IS LOST!

You forgot that Zelda will be replaced by Toon Zelda.

 

[Mr.C]

I'm going to take an educated guess and predict Link will be low tier.

 

[Mr. Mumbles]

While it is not impossible for someone like Ghirahim or Demise will be in the game, it is not likely for two reasons:

1. We have never had a villain that appeared in only one game become a playable character in Smash.
2. We have never had multiple villains from the same series in Smash.

Villains are nice, but they are more of a change of pace then a staple of the series. Not to mention that having multiple villains from the same series in Smash would be kind of odd, and would feel like one franchise is being favored over the others. Since Ganondorf ain't going anywhere (He has been in two games and was one of the most requested for Melee) we aren't getting another Zelda Villain. Vatti is one of the few Zelda villains that has made multiple appearances but even she isn't nearly as iconic as Ganondorf.

 

[TewnLeenk]

Link, Zelda and Ganondorf are all pretty likely to be in. I seriously hope Toon Link's still in. He's mah boy.

-Keep Toon Link (Wind Waker HD is a big title this fall)
-Make him actually cel shaded
-Give him his own UNIQUE moveset, using Wind Waker moves and items
-Give him a Wind Waker cyclone Final Smash
-Profit

 

[Bedhead]

I don't think there's anyone from the Zelda series who truly needs to be added to Smash. All villains aside from Ganondorf have appeared in one game (with Vaati being an exception) and are unlikely to appear as anything more than an Assist Trophy.

What the series really needs is for Ganondorf and Toon Link to get new, differentiated movesets. Ganondorf has a goddamn sword and dark magic, and Toon Link has a plethora of items unique to the toon-shaded Zelda games. It would be very disappointing to see them return as quasi-clones. It doesn't do justice to their history and personality.

Zelda is a bit trickier. For Brawl the main three characters got Twilight Princess updates, but the continued appearance of Sheik will get even more ridiculous if Zelda is given her Skyward look. On the other hand Link still looks pretty much like he did in Twilight Princess, so maybe they'll just stick with that.

 

[smashbrolink]

As long as they don't gimp normal Link any further, I'm fine with whatever else they do with the series.

 

[yullow321]

1. Wolf link and minda I think should replace toon link
2. A new villain like ghirahim or zant would be nice
3 I think the more characters the better

 

[Artsy Omni]

1. We have never had a villain that appeared in only one game become a playable character in Smash.

.... Hmm... Wasn't Ganondorf only in 1 game by the time Melee came out? Wind Waker had a little over a year before release.

 

[Krusiv]

If they decide to remove Ike from the roster they could give Ganondorf some of his moveset, thus giving Ganondorf his sword. It would help make Ganondorf less of a C.Falcon clone (assuming C.Falcon won't be cut).

I would be surprised if they didn't put Ghirahim in Smash4.

 

[Mr. Mumbles]

.... Hmm... Wasn't Ganondorf only in 1 game by the time Melee came out? Wind Waker had a little over a year before release.

He didn't have his humanoid form, but the name Ganondorf had been used in a Link to the Past. Also I think considering Ganondorf a separate entity then Ganon is kinda silly... at least it is in regards to smash brothers. Going full Ganon mode is Ganondorf's final smash after all. Thus it seems to me Ganondorf was considered to be the more practical form of Ganon.

If they decide to remove Ike from the roster they could give Ganondorf some of his moveset, thus giving Ganondorf his sword. It would help make Ganondorf less of a C.Falcon clone (assuming C.Falcon won't be cut).

I would be surprised if they didn't put Ghirahim in Smash4.

A sword move set would definitely be an upgrade, but I'm hoping more for an evil Warlock with beams of energy move set myself.


As for Ghirahim, I would be surprised if they did. Though I was surprised by Megaman and WFT so what do I know?

 

[lordvaati]

I'm going to take an educated guess and predict Link will be low tier.

It's kind of a tradition.

He was even Low Tier in Soul Calibur II, haha.

 

[Artsy Omni]

He didn't have his humanoid form, but the name Ganondorf had been used in a Link to the Past. Also I think considering Ganondorf a separate entity then Ganon is kinda silly... at least it is in regards to smash brothers. Going full Ganon mode is Ganondorf's final smash after all. Thus it seems to me Ganondorf was considered to be the more practical form of Ganon.

I'm just going to assume you meant "Ganon" in that sentence. =P

A sword move set would definitely be an upgrade, but I'm hoping more for an evil Warlock with beams of energy move set myself.

This. I always felt like Ganondorf should use his trademark tennis ball beams in some capacity. Something that could be directed at an angle somehow, and could bounce off of stage surfaces.... heck, maybe even have them be reflectable by standard attacks. Haha!

In fact, I always felt like Ganondorf using such abilities could translate to a similar play strategy to what he already has, but using attacks that are actually canonical, rather than Falconoid.

 

[Mr. Mumbles]

I'm just going to assume you meant "Ganon" in that sentence. =P



This. I always felt like Ganondorf should use his trademark tennis ball beams in some capacity. Something that could be directed at an angle somehow, and could bounce off of stage surfaces.... heck, maybe even have them be reflectable by standard attacks. Haha!

In fact, I always felt like Ganondorf using such abilities could translate to a similar play strategy to what he already has, but using attacks that are actually canonical, rather than Falconoid.

http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Ganon_(A_Link_to_the_Past) Read the first sentence of the story section of that link. Even though Ganondorf isn't seen, but rather Ganon is, the term Ganondorf is used in A Link to the Past. It is used to refer to the thief who touched the triforce and became Ganon, which is part of the backstory to a Link to the Past.

So while assuming I accidentally used the wrong word is normally a safe assumption, for once it wasn't.

As for your acknowledgment of what Ganondorf should be all I have to say is heck yes!

EDIT: Unless your smiley was meaning your joking? I'm terrible at interpreting smilies.

 

[lordvaati]

yep, he was Ganondorf before he created the dark world in LttP, where he turned into his soul's true form of Ganon(kinda like how Link's soul is the form of a bunny)

 

[LaniusShrike]

Yep, A Link to the Past talks briefly about Ganondorf Dragmire, King of Thieves, if I remember correctly. It's a badass last name, for sure.

I actually don't understand why people don't consider Impa very much when they discuss new Zelda characters. I'm not gonna rehash all the points here, just that Impa has appeared in as many games as Tingle, I believe... and that's giving him his non-cannon bizarro Japan-only games.

Is this thread different from the Zelda Franchise Discussion?

 

[TheTuninator]

I'm going to take an educated guess and predict Link will be low tier.

You've gotta wonder how they've managed to make one of their most beloved and iconic characters garbage for three games now. Hell, not even one character, an entire franchise. Hopefully SSB4 is kinder to Zelda both as a character and as a franchise.

 

[Mr.C]

You've gotta wonder how they've managed to make one of their most beloved and iconic characters garbage for three games now. Hell, not even one character, an entire franchise. Hopefully SSB4 is kinder to Zelda both as a character and as a franchise.

Lol, yeah. Pretty much all of the iconic characters are either mid/low tier, interesting. To be fair, even though he was low-mid tier in both SSB/Melee, Link was entirely playable at a competitive level. In Brawl he was just utter trash, but that had to do more with Brawl mechanics (no aerial cancels).

 

[eshu125]

Remove Toon Link and make a Toon Ganon!

 

[Toph_87]

I'm positive we will see Ghirahim or Demise in this game.

 

[FalKoopa]

I'm going to take an educated guess and predict Link will be low tier.

I think you wanted to say that there will a Hyrule tier again.

 

[smashbrolink]

I think you wanted to say that there will a Hyrule tier again.

Oh you!

 

[Shoopdawooper]

I don't think the zelda franchise should have more than four characters actually. I don't want a very large roster, and I do want lots of diversity, and that's a lot easier when incorporating many franchises with few characters, than few franchises with many characters per franchise.

I would like it if Toon link could stay, just because I love his design and feel, (not his playstyle in brawl perse). I know I'm a bit biased towards this, so I'm holding my breath on wheter or not he actually stays in.

Link, Zelda and Ganon are all pretty sure to be in, in one form or another. I would personally find it pretty cool if Ganon would have his Demise form. (But still call him ganon, we all know it is him ) And yes, I think they should finally abondon the captain falcon moveset. Maybe a big bulky swordbased move set with magic to spice things up. Could maybe feel similar to Ike a bit, only slower and with more punch.

As for zelda, I'm not sure if they're going to stick with the sheik aspect because of tradition and player recognition, or if they come up with something else. I love sheik, especially the way she was in melee, but I would be okay with something different if it feels good.