Whatever Happened to Final Destination Only?

[Pichu Guru]

When I'm studying play styles of Apex stars, I realize that Final Destination is hardly ever used. Yet, FD is the only truly fair stage, with no platforms, hazards, scrolling, screen changes, etc.....I'm wondering why that is.

 

[Comatose]

The simple fact is there are more legal stages than just FD, and many of these stages benefit certain characters more. Think of it like this: if yoshis is available, why take a puff to FD?

FD isn't exactly "fair" either. Every stage has certain characters that perform better on it, and FD isn't exempt

 

[B[r]ico]

The simple fact is there are more legal stages than just FD, and many of these stages benefit certain characters more. Think of it like this: if yoshis is available, why take a puff to FD?

FD isn't exactly "fair" either. Every stage has certain characters that perform better on it, and FD isn't exempt

This. The absence of platforms does not make a stage fair, since some characters can be at a disadvantage when standing on them, or having their options buffed when there aren't any (e.g. pillaring with Falco, or Peach CG on fast-fallers). I would actually consider a stage like PS as pretty fair compared to FD, since the terrain changes might give an advantage to one player or the other depending on the transformation.

First post, hi BTW.

 

[Pichu Guru]

I have to admit, Pichu would perform better at a stage like Battlefield or Yoshi's Story. I always played on FD professionally, and that was it for me.

 

[ShrieK1295]

FD isn't used much because that stage sucks ass.

 

[B[r]ico]

I always played on FD professionally, and that was it for me.

Why ? Stage selection is a very important part of competitive Melee, being able to understand why a character is good on a given stage, and which stage suits him/her best in a given matchup adds a lot to the game.

Also, what do you call "professionnally" ? Do you mean "competitively" ?

 

[Substitution]

When I'm studying play styles of Apex stars, I realize that Final Destination is hardly ever used. Yet, FD is the only truly fair stage, with no platforms, hazards, scrolling, screen changes, etc.....I'm wondering why that is.

Actually, is isn't. It's flat surface gives an advantage to more projectile oriented characters (Fox, Falco). If anything, Battlefield, or heck even Pokemon Stadium are more balanced.

 

[Pichu Guru]

I always thought platforms and hazards gave one player an advantage over the other more often than not. Basically, if you're standing above the opponent, you got yourself screwed. And by pro, I did mean competitive. I have yet to find a pro tourney near me, and it's really annoying.

 

[B[r]ico]

I always thought platforms and hazards gave one player an advantage over the other more often than not. Basically, if you're standing above the opponent, you got yourself screwed. And by pro, I did mean competitive. I have yet to find a pro tourney near me, and it's really annoying.

That's not a general truth. Standing above an opponent can be bad depending on the situation, but it also gives some options : shield dropping with an aerial can be an unexpected (depends on the skill level of who you're playing against) solution and open the way to a combo or an edgeguard. Sheik players often use platforms to recover when they can't grab the ledge with their Up-B. Things are probably more balanced regarding platforms than you might think.

 

[Pichu Guru]

I'll need to study harder, but for now I'm off. (Don't get below Pichu!!!) See you all sometime.

 

[Ezzee]

Your fault for being above them. FD only is basically what every new competitive player thinks is the best/most balanced stage. I know this (and tons other I'm sure) have been through that phase where you only play FD. For example, FD gives a huge advantage to Marth due to the fact that it's much harder to maneuver around his sword. FD is probably the most broken of all the neutral stages (except maybe yoshi's, but that's more of the Randall/Shy Guys more than layout)

 

[KirbyKaze]

When I'm studying play styles of Apex stars, I realize that Final Destination is hardly ever used. Yet, FD is the only truly fair stage, with no platforms, hazards, scrolling, screen changes, etc.....I'm wondering why that is.

Because M2K's grab might as well be a stage hazard.

 

[dRevan64]

So many things become so much sillier on FD.
fastfallers against anyone who can chaingrab them, including fox himself
yoshi loses all his out of shield options
combos, juggles, and even techchases because there are no platforms to escape to in the first place (I'm pretty sure I kept a peach suspended for a good 20 seconds once as marth on FD)
falco's neutral game
falco's neutral game
stop ****ing shooting lasers I hate you
you get the idea

 

[KirbyKaze]

You play Marth stop ******** you *****

 

[(G-S.N) Chicago Ben]

You play Marth stop *****ing you *****

I like this thread XD.
Wonder why?






<<< look here for main

 

[dRevan64]

You play Marth stop *****ing you *****

I'm just pointing out the absurdities of the stage, man, even when I benefit from them. And oh lord marth does benefit.

 

[Pichu Guru]

Haha. I use Marth more often than not, and I'm familiar with his advantages. The problem is....my rival is a Fox player. That blaster.......

 

[KirbyKaze]

 

[Pichu Guru]

The fact that you took the time to make that is hilarious. Okay, yes I completely agree. Those grab combo can mean the end of you, especially if they decide to throw up and follow with a Uair. Poor Pichu can't take heavy hits like that too often.

 

[dRevan64]

Fox lasers are basically a nonfactor on FD with marth. It's falco lasers that are bull****.

But that's just neutral game, obviously being able to grab and win the game makes a pretty overwhelming difference. I just john about the gun, and spacies can john about the death grab. It's a healthy relationship.

 

[Pichu Guru]

Fox will pretty much use laser to get you to come closer....which ends up being bad for both me and him. You don't wanna be close to Marth. Or Pichu, for that matter. His Usmash is the definition of power.

 

[KirbyKaze]

If you both agreed to not john about either you could probably get much better.

 

[Pichu Guru]

I ain't complaining, I'm pointing out tendencies. I learn from my battles.

 

[dRevan64]

If you both agreed to not john about either you could probably get much better.

I don't actually john about falco when I play, I've long since accepted that melee has ridiculously broken elements. Pointing out that they exist is just that.
I actually really like the falco matchup

 

[Pichu Guru]

I'm not one of those annoying guys who complain the whole time they play. That doesn't help anything in the slightest. Besides, all Melee characters are equal. I'm aware of certain matchups, but every character has equal balance. I've been wanting to prove that no one character is better than another. That's why I use Pichu.

 

[B[r]ico]

Besides, all Melee characters are equal. I'm aware of certain matchups, but every character has equal balance. I've been wanting to prove that no one character is better than another. That's why I use Pichu.

You are mistaken. Pichu is disadvantaged in nearly every matchup. If you're really good, you will be able to get some good placements in tournaments and to beat players who are significantly less skilled than you are, but don't expect to win anything big with bottom-tier or even low-tier characters. There is a reason why you don't see Pichu players placing high in tournaments, or even at all.

To sum up, playing low-tier characters is cool, but playing them to prove they are as good as the others is a bad idea, since it is wrong. The moment you will reach a decent level of play, you will feel the difference and start to lose a lot more games because your character simply have less viable options and is weaker overall.

 

[Keblerelf]

Pichu guru are you insane carzy guy hiding behind better grammar?

 

[Pichu Guru]

Pichu is not overall bad, but I will admit he's not good for use against speedier "top tier" characters (Fox, Falco, Marth, Sheik, etc.). How many REAL Pichu users do you see out there? None. Nobody knows his real potential, as a pro has never appeared in a tournament to date. That's part of why I'm here. It might be suicide, but I'm gonna at least put Pichu on the board. Then I'll probably lean on Marth.

 

[Pichu Guru]

Pichu guru are you insane carzy guy hiding behind better grammar?

Yes. But that's besides the point.

 

[Pichu Guru]

Pichu guru are you insane carzy guy hiding behind better grammar?

I'm just now realizing that's another user. Heh. No, I'm my own person. But I am crazy.

 

[mimgrim]

Because Dreamland exists.

 

[(G-S.N) Chicago Ben]

Pichu is not overall bad, but I will admit he's not good for use against speedier "top tier" characters (Fox, Falco, Marth, Sheik, etc.). How many REAL Pichu users do you see out there? None. Nobody knows his real potential, as a pro has never appeared in a tournament to date. That's part of why I'm here. It might be suicide, but I'm gonna at least put Pichu on the board. Then I'll probably lean on Marth.

Pichu was created by Sakurai to be the troll character. Why else would all his moves hurt him?
Hes was not built to be able to play at a competitive level.(understand game wasn't meant to be competitive too but you get the point)

 

[Sizzle]

Tournament players are often grouped into the meme of "FD, Fox only, no items" among people who don't really know much about the game. I know a lot of players who are just starting to learn about competitive play who will play every game with their friends on FD because they think that's how we actually do it. Without a real tournament experience, most of them aren't familiar with the normal stage rules.

 

[B[r]ico]

Pichu is not overall bad, but I will admit he's not good for use against speedier "top tier" characters (Fox, Falco, Marth, Sheik, etc.). How many REAL Pichu users do you see out there? None. Nobody knows his real potential, as a pro has never appeared in a tournament to date. That's part of why I'm here. It might be suicide, but I'm gonna at least put Pichu on the board. Then I'll probably lean on Marth.

Trust me, when you get to play against half-decent players, he's terrible. At a competitive level, at least 80% of players use top-tier characters. Damn, even flippin' Hax gave up on Falcon. Falcon. 7th on the tier-list. If even lower top-tiers aren't strong enough to win at top competitive level, what can you do with Pichu ?

There are people like Mew2king who basically tried everything. And they know enough about the game to rate Pichu as a bottom-tier character. It's not that nobody knows its potential, there are very good players who tried Pichu (and Kirby, and Bowser, and Ness) and figured he was a very weak character. People tried it before you, be sure of that. But hey, aMSa is living proof that even after 12 years, one can underestimate a character's true potential. So if your goal is to be as good as one can be with Pichu, that's perfectly fine. But don't expect to outperform Fox players with him, that's just unrealistic.

 

[Bones0]

When I'm studying play styles of Apex stars, I realize that Final Destination is hardly ever used. Yet, FD is the only truly fair stage, with no platforms, hazards, scrolling, screen changes, etc.....I'm wondering why that is.

1. FD only was never a thing on any scale beyond small groups of friends.

2. FD wasn't all that uncommon at Apex. Most of the sets I've seen have had FD at least once in the set, and it's rare to see any stage picked twice in the same set. Just off the top of my head, I think the only sets without an FD match were Mango vs. Hbox and, surprisingly, grand finals (though M2K had picked FD twice in the WF set vs. PP).

3. Fairness implies an equal level of opportunity to both players to win. Crazy, off-the-wall stages are not unfair, they simply do a poor job of demonstrating skill gaps.

4. Most of the "hazards" on the other legal stages are hardly even worth noting. I bet if people played a modded Melee with them taken out, they wouldn't even notice half of them were missing. None of them do actual damage to players like some banned stages, and BF doesn't have any hazards at all.

 

[gpbear4]

When I'm studying play styles of Apex stars, I realize that Final Destination is hardly ever used. Yet, FD is the only truly fair stage, with no platforms, hazards, scrolling, screen changes, etc.....I'm wondering why that is.

nuh some characters are better than others on certain stages >~<

 

[Deleted member]

dude we got like mute city and poke floats so I think we're good man

 

[(G-S.N) Chicago Ben]

dude we got like mute city and poke floats so I think we're good man

#MuteCity2012