What lessons should the next Smash take from other platfighters?

[Perkilator]

At least in term of gameplay. Platfighters like NASB may share the same core of Smash, but they still throw in their own little twist like heavy aerial attacks. In your opinion, what notes should the next Smash game take from other platfighters in terms of changing up the gameplay?

 

[MasterCheef]

great question. I have been wanting these types questions to be more of the mainstay on this website.

1st = better specials , Most specials are extremely boring.

2 make a Special move-set which symbiotic to the characters play-style , not just a random assortment of moves.

3 Make Special play according to their utility , Down specials in , Advantage only, mostly , Neutral special; in advantage or Neutral, Side Special in all three.

4 Almost all characters should have a projectile

all i got for now.

 

[Ze Diglett]

There's a LOT Smash could stand to learn from other platform fighters, but for the sake of this post, I'll just stick with the basics:

1. Universal movement mechanics

Whether it's airdashing or wavedashing or whatever, I think it's telling that every non-Smash platform fighter on the market has some sort of movement tech Smash doesn't. This is much better since not only does it mean even the sluggish low-tiers are able to compete, but it also enables the designers to get more creative with more powerful movesets since every character has the means to play around them, thus making the game more fun for everyone. The worst characters in Smash like Ganondorf and Dedede have no movement tech whatsoever and are extremely slow, leaving them almost unplayably vulnerable to certain styles of play (i.e. camping).

2. Multiple attack buttons

This one's a given. One face button should be for light attacks, another should be for heavy attacks, and specials can stay on their own, separate button, with the fourth usually going to jump. This is an objectively superior system that makes inputting the attack you want on the fly significantly easier, which is why every single platform fighter bar Smash is doing it.

3. Better counterplay to projectiles

This one's kind of lumped in with the first one, but most platform fighters handle the whole projectile thing way better than Smash does. Usually, this comes in the form of some sort of universal reflector like Rivals of Aether's parry or strong attacks in NASB. In Smash, if your character doesn't have a reflector baked into their moveset, approaching someone who's insistent on camping with projectiles is just kind of a slog and makes countering defensive play boring at best and outright agonizing at worst.

4. Dedicated ranked and casual matchmaking

This is an incredibly basic one that not only every platform fighter, but nearly every multiplayer game besides Smash is doing. Separate matchmaking pools for people who wanna play for rank VS. those who just wanna get some games in is an extremely obvious call since those people aren't going to want to play with each other in any universe. Also, screw battle arenas! Just bring back friend rooms! They were an extremely convenient system that did practically everything arenas do better!

5. Cool it with the stages, please

I have never once met someone who wanted to play on Pac-Land, or Great Cave Offensive, or Palutena's Temple. There's a difference between a stage being designed for casuals and being unconducive to fun gameplay. Casual stages, in my opinion, should be more like Mushroom Kingdom U and Kalos Pokemon League, having unique, yet not exploitable layouts and fair, predictable hazards that don't leave you feeling like you're fighting the stage more than the other players.

That's all for now.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

3. Better counterplay to projectiles

This one's kind of lumped in with the first one, but most platform fighters handle the whole projectile thing way better than Smash does. Usually, this comes in the form of some sort of universal reflector like Rivals of Aether's parry or strong attacks being able to reflect in NASB. In Smash, if your character doesn't have a reflector baked into their moveset, approaching someone who's insistent on camping with projectiles is just kind of a slog and makes countering defensive play boring at best and outright agonizing at worst.

Frames of projectile invincibility on certain moves could be a good idea. Stuff like Ike’s Quick Draw or Ganondorf’s Flame Choke could have it.

 

[Janx_uwu]

Frames of projectile invincibility on certain moves could be a good idea. Stuff like Ike’s Quick Draw or Ganondorf’s Flame Choke could have it.

That feels like a band-aid fix that ultimately results in more frustration than anything. Just look at Kazuya.

 

[FazDude]

Online that isn't insufferable. 'Nuff said.

 

[Janx_uwu]

Sports mode!!!

 

[T0MMY]

After setting out to remove every fun mechanic in the series that helped define it, I think there's still a few other things that could be mentioned.
I remember when the games actually functioned properly and rewarded technical and smart gameplay.
But maybe take a cue from other games by not putting a bunch of Fire Emblem characters in the game before destroying the meta with the a glut of DLC.
Yeah, we saw you flip everyone off when you brought Byleth in, Sakurai.

 

[Perkilator]

Gameplay changes I’d like to see, based on what I’ve played of NASB:

• Normal and aerial attacks have Light and Heavy variations. This can not only expand the movesets of veterans, but it also lends itself to newcomers whose potential moveset benefit from having Light and Heavy attacks.
• Up Specials no longer send you into freefall, but you can’t use them twice in a row. This means you’re not helpless when you recover, but that doesn’t make recovering so easy there’s no point launching opponents of the stage.
• You can now move after grabbing an opponent and throw with an attack button, but the speed you move while holding them depends on the fighter’s weight

 

[Master Hero Sock-on-Rye]

Everyone has some great ideas, and I agree with the surplus of stages and how some fighters look generic, but I have an idea of my own.

Make a Tag Team Mode, and have the roster reflect it.

What do I mean by this? Similar to MultiVersus, I'd like to see the ability to pair up two Smashers at the same time for a single match. To perform this, I'd also like to see the roster reflect this, if possible. Like, we all know there's gonna be some cuts. Let's make it fun.

 

[Oracle Link]

Much more costumes!
Especially multiversus did great in that regard!

 

[MasterCheef]

Everyone has some great ideas, and I agree with the surplus of stages and how some fighters look generic, but I have an idea of my own.

Make a Tag Team Mode, and have the roster reflect it.

What do I mean by this? Similar to MultiVersus, I'd like to see the ability to pair up two Smashers at the same time for a single match. To perform this, I'd also like to see the roster reflect this, if possible. Like, we all know there's gonna be some cuts. Let's make it fun.

What do you think of my idea for this ?

Your Reaction If....

Eh,i prefer Shadow as normal fighter than an echo fighter,he have attacks who are different from Sonic HWYR if Marisa Kirisame was a next echo fighter on Smash Infinite Beyond?

smashboards.com

 

[Master Hero Sock-on-Rye]

What do you think of my idea for this ?

Your Reaction If....

Eh,i prefer Shadow as normal fighter than an echo fighter,he have attacks who are different from Sonic HWYR if Marisa Kirisame was a next echo fighter on Smash Infinite Beyond?

smashboards.com

That's more or less what I was targeting. But I do have some questions:
1: Are there no more Down-B moves in your roster? If not, how does the swap mechanic work?
2: Why choose Magolor for Kirby's partner when Bandanna Dee is on the table?
3: Roy and Byleth? That is an odd combination, to say the least.
4: May I recommend having Fiora or Dunban be Shulk's partner?
5: Do the two forms of Officer Howard fight like Pyra and Mythra in this game?
6: Of all the third party fighters, why go with Master Chief and Ahri as the only two, plus their partners?

 

[Quillion]

1. Universal movement mechanics

Whether it's airdashing or wavedashing or whatever, I think it's telling that every non-Smash platform fighter on the market has some sort of movement tech Smash doesn't. This is much better since not only does it mean even the sluggish low-tiers are able to compete, but it also enables the designers to get more creative with more powerful movesets since every character has the means to play around them, thus making the game more fun for everyone. The worst characters in Smash like Ganondorf and Dedede have no movement tech whatsoever and are extremely slow, leaving them almost unplayably vulnerable to certain styles of play (i.e. camping).

Can't that also be fixed by just reducing the variance of movement speeds? I agree that the glaciers in Smash are way too slow to be supported by the game's design, but maybe instead of having to play around slow running, the slowness of the running itself is reduced.

 

[MasterCheef]

That's more or less what I was targeting. But I do have some questions:
1: Are there no more Down-B moves in your roster? If not, how does the swap mechanic work?
2: Why choose Magolor for Kirby's partner when Bandanna Dee is on the table?
3: Roy and Byleth? That is an odd combination, to say the least.
4: May I recommend having Fiora or Dunban be Shulk's partner?
5: Do the two forms of Officer Howard fight like Pyra and Mythra in this game?
6: Of all the third party fighters, why go with Master Chief and Ahri as the only two, plus their partners?

1 depends , either no one has down special or there is a specific switching button
2 Magalor has a lot more interesting move-set options
3 Speed & range , swapping , sounds most interesting to me
4 yes, i am not opposed.
5 Oficer Howard has multiple Legions to pick from. Each with different strengths & weaknesses. So lots to change up
6 There is definitely opportunity for more. Those are the only ones i really want

 

[Kirbeh]

Revert Final Smashes to being item only, unbalanced, chaos creators. Then add a proper meter system with EX specials and multiple supers (2-3) per character. This of course comes with the removal of the extra mecanhics on certain characters likeetc.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Can't that also be fixed by just reducing the variance of movement speeds? I agree that the glaciers in Smash are way too slow to be supported by the game's design, but maybe instead of having to play around slow running, the slowness of the running itself is reduced.

Why homogenize the characters who aren't "supported by the game's design" when you can instead change the game's design to be more inclusive of those characters and open up new possibilities for everyone? That just seems like a lame way to balance any game, like you gave up trying to balance slow characters with fast ones and just made them close to the same.

 

[Master Hero Sock-on-Rye]

1 depends , either no one has down special or there is a specific switching button
2 Magalor has a lot more interesting move-set options
3 Speed & range , swapping , sounds most interesting to me
4 yes, i am not opposed.
5 Oficer Howard has multiple Legions to pick from. Each with different strengths & weaknesses. So lots to change up
6 There is definitely opportunity for more. Those are the only ones i really want

1: I'd hope there's a specific switching button, but I would actually get over the loss of a down special in that game.
2: Okay. At least Dedede and Meta Knight are still in the game as their own duo, so it's no loss on my end if Magolor was the fourth Kirby rep.
3: Fair enough.
4: Thanks. Just wanted to make Shulk fit in like a healthy thumb, if you will.
5: With such a move pool, I can see why Officer Howard needs to be his/her own person.
6: There's nothing stopping you from doing that. Heck, the fact that we still have Microsoft representation through Halo's Master Chief and Arbiter makes me happy.

 

[MasterCheef]

6: There's nothing stopping you from doing that. Heck, the fact that we still have Microsoft representation through Halo's Master Chief and Arbiter makes me happy.

Ahri & Master Chief , i personally believe are S tier 3 party non Japanese reps who could make it in.

These are my others , who are basically the equivalent of my wildest dreams coming true

27 Monkey D. Luffy & Boa Hancock

28 Boruto Uzumaki & ( Himiwara Uzumaki ? / Eida ? )

29 Yami Yugi ; = Dark Magician & Alexis Rhodes ; = Cyber Angel Izana

30 Goku , w/ ( Vegeta , as alt ) & Trunks ( Future )

31 MechiKabura & Syn Shenron

32 Hit , & , Belmod

33 Ichigo KuroSaki & Inoue Orihime

34 Ishida & Yoruichi Shihoin

35 Ulquiorra Cifer & Aizen

 

[Master Hero Sock-on-Rye]

Ahri & Master Chief , i personally believe are S tier 3 party non Japanese reps who could make it in.

These are my others , who are basically the equivalent of my wildest dreams coming true

27 Monkey D. Luffy & Boa Hancock

28 Boruto Uzumaki & ( Himiwara Uzumaki ? / Eida ? )

29 Yami Yugi ; = Dark Magician & Alexis Rhodes ; = Cyber Angel Izana

30 Goku , w/ ( Vegeta , as alt ) & Trunks ( Future )

31 MechiKabura & Syn Shenron

32 Hit , & , Belmod

33 Ichigo KuroSaki & Inoue Orihime

34 Ishida & Yoruichi Shihoin

35 Ulquiorra Cifer & Aizen

I can understand your point on both. Halo revolutionized the FPS, while League of Legends is one of the top MMO in the business.

As for your "wildest dreams" picks, this just makes me wish for an all-anime tag team Smash-like. You've already got Dragon Ball, One Piece, the Naruto universe, Yu-Gi-Oh!, and Bleach on here from what I can recognize.

 

[Quillion]

Why homogenize the characters who aren't "supported by the game's design" when you can instead change the game's design to be more inclusive of those characters and open up new possibilities for everyone? That just seems like a lame way to balance any game, like you gave up trying to balance slow characters with fast ones and just made them close to the same.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in support of a burst movement option.

But one thing I'm wary about is this: If slow characters have a way to move quickly, what would the point of them being slow in the first place be? I know playing with or around weaknesses is part of good game design, but I'm a little mixed on the prospect of a burst movement (or "rush" as Rushdown Revolt allegedly calls it) outright making characters fast.

In regards to "homogenizing" the characters: although this thread is very old, I think this dialogue I once had about variance and balance still holds:

I see that there's a lot of push for characters to have lots of options. So I would like to ask this question:

What is the line between "all characters have useful options" and "all characters feel the same"? To put it in a more fun way, how do we avoid this situation?:

It may sound silly, but it's something of a dilemma I have. Where would the variability come if everyone has good combo moves? If everyone had good kill moves? If everyone had good recoveries? If everyone had good reversals or good "keep away" moves?

I know it's good for characters to have options, but I'm a little wary of the game getting homogenous if they have the tools for every situation. I want characters who are bad at comboing. I want characters who are bad at killing. I want characters who have bad recoveries. I want characters with bad spacing. How do you do variety if everyone has tools for every situation?

The answer is that these universal options and tools are not of the same quality. Some have better keepaway than others, some have worse. Some have better combo starters than others, some have worse, etc. "Bad" in this context simply means "worse than the median" rather than what bad usually entailed in past Smash games, which was "ineffective in basically all circumstances".

To put the two points together, a burst movement mechanic (or tech) itself feels like it'll either homogenize the characters or it'll result in another "fast gets faster", "slow doesn't benefit" situation like how momentum-conserving jumps do. There's definitely room for such a mechanic, but I'm just unsure how to avoid these problems.

 

[MasterCheef]

I can understand your point on both. Halo revolutionized the FPS, while League of Legends is one of the top MMO in the business.

As for your "wildest dreams" picks, this just makes me wish for an all-anime tag team Smash-like. You've already got Dragon Ball, One Piece, the Naruto universe, Yu-Gi-Oh!, and Bleach on here from what I can recognize.

Master Chief , was also , 2nd Highest , on the Smash poll. & just as importantly Nintendo & Microsoft have an excellenty working relationship.

Ahri is not only one of the characters highest amount of skins 2nd only to Lux She also has the best selling Skins.
& Tencent helped Nintendo make Pokemon Unite.

me wish for an all-anime tag team Smash-like. = exactly

 

[Kirbeh]

Don't get me wrong, I'm in support of a burst movement option.

But one thing I'm wary about is this: If slow characters have a way to move quickly, what would the point of them being slow in the first place be? I know playing with or around weaknesses is part of good game design, but I'm a little mixed on the prospect of a burst movement (or "rush" as Rushdown Revolt allegedly calls it) outright making characters fast.

In regards to "homogenizing" the characters: although this thread is very old, I think this dialogue I once had about variance and balance still holds:





To put the two points together, a burst movement mechanic (or tech) itself feels like it'll either homogenize the characters or it'll result in another "fast gets faster", "slow doesn't benefit" situation like how momentum-conserving jumps do. There's definitely room for such a mechanic, but I'm just unsure how to avoid these problems.

As far as movement goes, I'm in favor of having a universal option, albeit tied to a resource. More or less wave dashing like in Melee where while everyone can do it, the speed and distance can vary by character. In this case just bind it to a button and give it a meter like Drive Gauge in Street Fighter 6. And while probably a divisive idea, I would tie shields to the same gauge, along with a new function of being able to either cancel out of or double down and further enhance Smash attacks at the cost of a little meter.

As for reflectors (as were brought up early in the thread), I'm actually against having them as a universal function. I do agree that most if not all members of the cast should have some way to deal with projectiles, but I would like those means to be more varied. Dedicated reflector moves can stay but add more absorption type moves be it for healing like PSI Magnet or for storing projectiles like Pocket. In some cases, perhaps even a tilt that simply nullifies the projectile sort of like some normals in fighting games. Zangief's headbutt in SFV for example could be used to destroy incoming projectiles iirc.

Depending on what characters get added I'm sure there are other interesting options that could implemented as well. Perhaps a passive ability on a character like Twintelle where projectiles slow down around her while she's charging Smash attacks. Or revise Sora's moveset to include the Stop spell, where instead of locking down opponents it freezes time for projectiles and moving platforms (Within a small range, not across the whole stage, just to clarify).

And another potentially controversial idea would be the addition of not something from other platform fighters, but a traditional block function like most fighters. The shield still serves to nullify all incoming damage and provide total body coverage, while blocking guards against most damage (chip still applies as decimal percent) and KB. Blocking also means the addition of proper high-low situations and cross-ups. Blocking conserves and maybe builds a little meter, the shield consumes meter but provides greater defense.

Controls wise basically; convert the extra jump, grab and shield buttons to new functions like wavedash, guard, smash attack (now as its own button.)

 

[Quillion]

As far as movement goes, I'm in favor of having a universal option, albeit tied to a resource. More or less wave dashing like in Melee where while everyone can do it, the speed and distance can vary by character. In this case just bind it to a button and give it a meter like Drive Gauge in Street Fighter 6. And while probably a divisive idea, I would tie shields to the same gauge, along with a new function of being able to either cancel out of or double down and further enhance Smash attacks at the cost of a little meter.

Honestly, I'm not so sure about giving Smash a meter-eating FADC-type mechanic on top of a super meter. Mechanics like that and Roman Cancel eat meter to prevent infinites, but Smash already has knockback growth as its inherent infinite-stopping mechanic (for the most part).

Giving it some thought, maybe certain characters can be more dependent on "rush" while some are more dependent on running. That said, there's also the problem that Ultimate has made the post-run skid AND turnaround animations cancel-able with any attack. Maybe what they can do is revert running to the "only jump, dash grab, and dash attack" state while "rush" can be cancelled into any attack, but make the latter punish "rush" spam somehow.

Totally agree on reflectors not being universal though.

And another potentially controversial idea would be the addition of not something from other platform fighters, but a traditional block function like most fighters. The shield still serves to nullify all incoming damage and provide total body coverage, while blocking guards against most damage (chip still applies as decimal percent) and KB. Blocking also means the addition of proper high-low situations and cross-ups. Blocking conserves and maybe builds a little meter, the shield consumes meter but provides greater defense.

Controls wise basically; convert the extra jump, grab and shield buttons to new functions like wavedash, guard, smash attack (now as its own button.)

Traditional blocking sounds like a more interesting way of improving shield poking, which I feel is a bit of a questionable mechanic. Having multiple ways to block seems a little weird though.

 

[Kirbeh]

Honestly, I'm not so sure about giving Smash a meter-eating FADC-type mechanic on top of a super meter. Mechanics like that and Roman Cancel eat meter to prevent infinites, but Smash already has knockback growth as its inherent infinite-stopping mechanic (for the most part).

Giving it some thought, maybe certain characters can be more dependent on "rush" while some are more dependent on running. That said, there's also the problem that Ultimate has made the post-run skid AND turnaround animations cancel-able with any attack. Maybe what they can do is revert running to the "only jump, dash grab, and dash attack" state while "rush" can be cancelled into any attack, but make the latter punish "rush" spam somehow.

Totally agree on reflectors not being universal though.



Traditional blocking sounds like a more interesting way of improving shield poking, which I feel is a bit of a questionable mechanic. Having multiple ways to block seems a little weird though.

It is a bit odd, but I honestly see it as a way to retain shields, an element unique to Smash, while changing up defense a bit. I suppose a comparison here could be the way parrying works in SF6 mixed with chip damage from traditional 2D fighters.

You would shield to nullify all damage and avoid having to deal high/low mixups or cross ups, but at the cost of gauge which you need to wavedash or smash cancel.

The normal block/crouch block, like in other fighting games. would leave you vulnerable to high/low/cross ups and you'd still take some decimal percent as chip damage.

The idea is to give players some more options but be made to manage which they'll prioritize.

Using SF6 as the example, you can guard in that game at the cost of losing some of your Drive Gauge (this used to be chip damage in previous titles as well as Marvel vs Capcom.) You also have the option to Parry which does what you'd expect, but unlike in Third Strike where it was timed, you can actually just hold it for as long as you like (kind of like a Smash shield) or until you run of Drive as it's attached to it too.

As for Smash cancels, perhaps they may not work as well in practice, but the idea is to give Smash attacks themselves more utility then as simply being the "I broke your shield, time to charge" move. I suppose they would need to be reworked on their own too, perhaps made weaker, though still stronger than tilts of course.

I do also agree that adding 2 meters to Smash on top of all the other changes would likely be too much all at once or even too different from what people want out of Smash altogether. Perhaps best saved for a new platform fighter instead. As much as I'd to see some of these changes, they do run the risk of greatly reducing the simplicity that makes Smash appealing to so many.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Ahri & Master Chief , i personally believe are S tier 3 party non Japanese reps who could make it in.

These are my others , who are basically the equivalent of my wildest dreams coming true

27 Monkey D. Luffy & Boa Hancock

28 Boruto Uzumaki & ( Himiwara Uzumaki ? / Eida ? )

29 Yami Yugi ; = Dark Magician & Alexis Rhodes ; = Cyber Angel Izana

30 Goku , w/ ( Vegeta , as alt ) & Trunks ( Future )

31 MechiKabura & Syn Shenron

32 Hit , & , Belmod

33 Ichigo KuroSaki & Inoue Orihime

34 Ishida & Yoruichi Shihoin

35 Ulquiorra Cifer & Aizen

This Shonen Jump lineup is crazy.

• Why Luffy is not paired with someone like Zoro, Usopp, or other femmes like Nami or Yamato?
• Why did you choose Naruto's children over the father? (not sure if He gets paired with someone like Tsunade)
• Why Yugi is not paired with anyone from his season?
• Vegeta as an alt?
• I rather prefer Ichigo and Yoruichi as a pair.

What about the characters from Shonen Magazine? If that's the case I would make a duo between Natsu and Erza.

 

[MasterCheef]

This Shonen Jump lineup is crazy.

• Why Luffy is not paired with someone like Zoro, Usopp, or other femmes like Nami or Yamato?
• Why did you choose Naruto's children over the father? (not sure if He gets paired with someone like Tsunade)
• Why Yugi is not paired with anyone from his season?
• Vegeta as an alt?
• I rather prefer Ichigo and Yoruichi as a pair.

What about the characters from Shonen Magazine? If that's the case I would make a duo between Natsu and Erza.

Luffy , would be a grappler type , which woulds pair well with a ranged character.

I find Boruto more Interesting than Naruro. I gave up on Naruto.

Yugi is paired with Alexis because she is the only othe main-esque Heroine from the series

The design Behind Ichigo & Inoue is a excellent swordsman W/ a great gimper

 

[Quillion]

It is a bit odd, but I honestly see it as a way to retain shields, an element unique to Smash, while changing up defense a bit. I suppose a comparison here could be the way parrying works in SF6 mixed with chip damage from traditional 2D fighters.

You would shield to nullify all damage and avoid having to deal high/low mixups or cross ups, but at the cost of gauge which you need to wavedash or smash cancel.

The normal block/crouch block, like in other fighting games. would leave you vulnerable to high/low/cross ups and you'd still take some decimal percent as chip damage.

The idea is to give players some more options but be made to manage which they'll prioritize.

Using SF6 as the example, you can guard in that game at the cost of losing some of your Drive Gauge (this used to be chip damage in previous titles as well as Marvel vs Capcom.) You also have the option to Parry which does what you'd expect, but unlike in Third Strike where it was timed, you can actually just hold it for as long as you like (kind of like a Smash shield) or until you run of Drive as it's attached to it too.

As for Smash cancels, perhaps they may not work as well in practice, but the idea is to give Smash attacks themselves more utility then as simply being the "I broke your shield, time to charge" move. I suppose they would need to be reworked on their own too, perhaps made weaker, though still stronger than tilts of course.

I do also agree that adding 2 meters to Smash on top of all the other changes would likely be too much all at once or even too different from what people want out of Smash altogether. Perhaps best saved for a new platform fighter instead. As much as I'd to see some of these changes, they do run the risk of greatly reducing the simplicity that makes Smash appealing to so many.

I feel like if there is some sort of super meter in Smash (which I wholeheartedly support btw), they should just limit it (at least at first) just to super specials before going crazy with "super shields", "super throws", "super cancels" or any other meter eating mechanics.

Approaching the super meter with that restraint would at least avoid the "mechanical bloat" that I feel plagues modern traditional fighters.

When it comes to cancels, I'd advocate for jabs to be cancelable into tilts at least, plus up tilts being cancelable into jumps (plus that would give a good excuse for reworking Ganondorf's up-tilt). Also, neutral aerials should be reworked into aerial jabs so the same can still apply.

 

[Kirbeh]

I think the bigger question is what do a bunch of anime character duos have to do with Smash's gameplay?

 

[Quillion]

I think the bigger question is what do a bunch of anime character duos have to do with Smash's gameplay?

Allegedly, it's an opportunity to take what Multiversus is doing.

I mean, I agree that the whole "no non-video game characters" rule/pattern should end after Ultimate, but they shouldn't go crazy to the extent Master Cheef is asking.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I mean, I agree that the whole "no non-video game characters" rule/pattern should end after Ultimate,

How come?

 

[Quillion]

How come?

I'm not saying the rule was always bad, I think it was fitting since licensed games circa Smash 64-Smash 4 were largely mid at best.

Nowadays though, we've been getting so many great licensed games like Batman Arkham, Injustice, Witcher, some great Star Wars stuff, Dragon Ball FZ, etc. that fans of non-video game franchises actually feel safe talking about their favorite franchises getting adapted somehow. And we're even seeing things like Negan from Walking Dead being brought into Tekken of all things.

And for that reason, I feel that the "curse" that separates video games from other media is safely gone, so there is no point in Smash continuing to barrier licensed game characters from being in Smash.

Don't get me wrong, there are still several companies that are awful at licensing their properties for video games (like Viacom) and those that kinda suck at adapting those properties (like Bamco), but Smash absolutely should celebrate the strides licensed games have made, not continue to mock them for their failures.

 

[Kirbeh]

I'm not saying the rule was always bad, I think it was fitting since licensed games circa Smash 64-Smash 4 were largely mid at best.

Nowadays though, we've been getting so many great licensed games like Batman Arkham, Injustice, Witcher, some great Star Wars stuff, Dragon Ball FZ, etc. that fans of non-video game franchises actually feel safe talking about their favorite franchises getting adapted somehow. And we're even seeing things like Negan from Walking Dead being brought into Tekken of all things.

And for that reason, I feel that the "curse" that separates video games from other media is safely gone, so there is no point in Smash continuing to barrier licensed game characters from being in Smash.

Don't get me wrong, there are still several companies that are awful at licensing their properties for video games (like Viacom) and those that kinda suck at adapting those properties (like Bamco), but Smash absolutely should celebrate the strides licensed games have made, not continue to mock them for their failures.

I don't think Smash has ever mocked them though? The separation from licenses from other media has simply been because Smash's focus is on its own industry and the bigger reason simply being to avoid the further headache of more complicated licensing deals.

I've got plenty of characters/franchises I like from manga/anime, comics, etc. but I still think expanding to all media sources kind of makes the scope of Smash to wide and unfocused.

Especially now when the genre is seeing more players enter the field, I would rather see stuff like Multiversus grow into it's own thing, and hopefully see the return of others like Jump All Stars.

 

[Quillion]

Kirbeh :
Yeah, "mock" wasn't the right word; should've said ignoring licensed games for their failures.

And yes, licensing deals were complicated back then, but I think companies nowadays will throw money at Nintendo for the promo rather than ask for money.

 

[Perkilator]

An oddly specific example, but I just saw the Angry Beavers showcase for NASB2.

And it gave me an idea for how Noah & Mio could work in Smash: Fusion Arts. By pressing B again during a special, the one you're not playing as uses their special and you switch to them afterwards.

Again, an oddly specific example, but it goes to show how other platfighters can inspire ideas for potential Smash newcomers.

 

[Kirbeh]

An oddly specific example, but I just saw the Angry Beavers showcase for NASB2.

And it gave me an idea for how Noah & Mio could work in Smash: Fusion Arts. By pressing B again during a special, the one you're not playing as uses their special and you switch to them afterwards.

Again, an oddly specific example, but it goes to show how other platfighters can inspire ideas for potential Smash newcomers.

Not quite the same, but it also reminds me of the way tags work in Marvel vs Capcom Infinite. You can call your 2nd character in mid combo and continue while they run in. Once they're in, you switch control to them while the first character is still finishing the actions you'd input during the tag.

That would be pretty neat honestly. Give them the ability to swap but only as a special cancel.

 

[Quillion]

Not quite the same, but it also reminds me of the way tags work in Marvel vs Capcom Infinite. You can call your 2nd character in mid combo and continue while they run in. Once they're in, you switch control to them while the first character is still finishing the actions you'd input during the tag.

That would be pretty neat honestly. Give them the ability to swap but only as a special cancel.

I think that sort of deal would be best for an improved Squads mode so it's open to everyone rather than just having something interesting be exclusive to one or a few characters again.

 

[Perkilator]

I was looking at each character's spotlight and it gave me some ideas as to what certain characters in Smash should've had for their movesets:

• Ren & Stimpy's Log in NASB2 is as if Donkey Kong had a barrel-throwing special
• Donnie's Electric Grenade is what Dedede's Gordo should have been
• Donnie's Smoke Bomb is what Greninja's Substitute should have been

 

[Perkilator]

That NASB 2 Story Mode trailer gave me yet more inspiration for notes Smash can take: have the Adventure Mode be something similar to Amazing Mirror if Amazing Mirror didn’t suck