Q&A "What if Zelda was a girl?" : Zelda Q&A COME HERE FIRST WITH YOUR ZELDA QUESTIONS.

[Rinku リンク]

Was the sweet spot for Zelda's f-air/b-air changed at all? I feel like it's a lot harder to land (or I just suck) in Smash 4.

 

[BJN39]

Was the sweet spot for Zelda's f-air/b-air changed at all? I feel like it's a lot harder to land (or I just suck) in Smash 4.

The sweet-spots were actually made 0.2 units larger in SSB4, compared to Brawl. They went from 1.7u to 1.9u. That said, that is an extremely small size increase, to an extremely small hitbox.

Another change that could make LK sweet-spots harder to land is that they both received an additional frame of startup. They went from 8/5 FAir/BAir, to 9/6 FAir/BAir. It is once again a very small change, but it can make timing it different or harder.

You most likely don't suck. Landing LKs in smash 4 is hilariously hard and inconsistent. I can recount many times good Zeldas have whiffed LKs that were perfectly positioned because the hitbox is so small. The risk reward is skewed. It was skewed even in Brawl.

 

[Rinku リンク]

Ah I see. Thank you for the confirmation.

 

[Rickster]

Wasn't there also a change in the hitbox placement compared to Brawl's? Or is that just something leftover from early Smash 4 meta?

Personally I find them easier to land in Smash 4, but it honestly varies a lot from person to person.

 

[Kealmir]

I've been toying around with some Footstool Stuff on Zelda and i haven't seen any relevant info on any Footstool setups, I managed to get some out of downthrow in 0-45% range on a few characters but i can't tell if i'm just getting lucky. Is there even a way for Zelda to reset the opponent after landing from a footstool?

I've experimented with fair, dair and bair while falling after landing the footstool to reset into a downtilt + regrab similar to the Cpt. Falcon Footstool combo, but can't tell if the regrab and footstool is just dumb luck on my behalf.

Has anyone else tried similar setups with any success?

 

[Zylach]

I've been toying around with some Footstool Stuff on Zelda and i haven't seen any relevant info on any Footstool setups, I managed to get some out of downthrow in 0-45% range on a few characters but i can't tell if i'm just getting lucky. Is there even a way for Zelda to reset the opponent after landing from a footstool?

I've experimented with fair, dair and bair while falling after landing the footstool to reset into a downtilt + regrab similar to the Cpt. Falcon Footstool combo, but can't tell if the regrab and footstool is just dumb luck on my behalf.

Has anyone else tried similar setups with any success?

Though I haven't tried footstool setups myself, I can tell you that the timing on followup from dthrow is really strict and, with proper DI, I don't think a footstool is guaranteed at all. I'm curious if it would work on uthrow since it's BKB is lower than dthrow and it should be easier to go up for a footstool from uthrow at very low percents. The most this would be able to do is get some good damage as uthrow sends the opponent too far at kill percents but it seems reasonable that you'd be able to footstool to sourspot dair reset to regrab. Again, I haven't done any of this and am only speculating here.

 

[Kealmir]

Though I haven't tried footstool setups myself, I can tell you that the timing on followup from dthrow is really strict and, with proper DI, I don't think a footstool is guaranteed at all. I'm curious if it would work on uthrow since it's BKB is lower than dthrow and it should be easier to go up for a footstool from uthrow at very low percents. The most this would be able to do is get some good damage as uthrow sends the opponent too far at kill percents but it seems reasonable that you'd be able to footstool to sourspot dair reset to regrab. Again, I haven't done any of this and am only speculating here.

I tried playing around it some more for an hour or so, and I have the downthrow to footstool at a reasonable rate. My objective is to get a footstool chain until 45-50% where it starts to get harder to land and try to setup for a Elevator kill or maybe play around with a Dair spike chain, but the hardest part of the chain is landing and aerial that can reset the opponents get up animation. Fair and Dair seem to be the best option as they 90% of the time land a sour spot hit while landing on the opponent which leads into a downtilt regrab, but then you also have to deal with what direction the opponent falls. If he falls behind you, you have to be fast enough to react with a weak hit of Bair and do a pivot downtilt (which is where is usually mess up the chain)

Dair spikes off the stage into footstool also are great option for above 30% as they can't be teched while the opponent is on the ground, but trying to land the sweetspot for Dair while fastfalling a footstool is even harder then the previous.

It definitely seems possible, but perhaps my objective of a zero to death chain is a little unrealistic in a competitive setting. The 0-45% downthrow chain however seems reliable on most of the cast except Sheik who can act out downtilt very fast and gives you little time to regrab.

- Also I tried up throw and the range at which it's effective is lower but slightly easier to land a footstool

 

[Thelimomon]

Hello everyone, uh, I am not a Zelda main myself, but I like to play as her from time to time.

Sometimes, when I play around with characters, I find some interesting techniques and combos and then I ask myself for how long they are discovered already.

Just now, I found something that could(!) be very useful for Zelda players, but I have no idea if this is already a known thing or not:
If you sweet spot d-air a grounded opponent at a certain percentage you can true combo it into her up special.
(Side note: I believe a true combo is it when it shows that it is a combo in training mode, but I have actually no idea.)

Now the percentage I'm talking about is around 35-60% (depending heavily on the character), so it doesn't sound too useful other than damage because for the most characters Zelda's grounded up special KOs only around 60% or above.
But, I tried it myself in training mode and it can KO Sheik the earliest already at 37%, Bowser at 45% and Jigglypuff at 24% on Final Destination from the middle of the stage or even the other side.
(I have no idea if you can DI this in any way because I had to test it with the CPU in training mode.)

It however could also be useful even without KOing the opponent since it deals 34% damage, which isn't bad at all, I'd say.

I'm sorry for wasting your time if this is known already for a long time (I actually can't imagine no one tried it before) and I didn't want to create a thread for this one question, so that's why I ask this here.

Stay strong Zelda players!

 

[Zylach]

Hello everyone, uh, I am not a Zelda main myself, but I like to play as her from time to time.

Sometimes, when I play around with characters, I find some interesting techniques and combos and then I ask myself for how long they are discovered already.

Just now, I found something that could(!) be very useful for Zelda players, but I have no idea if this is already a known thing or not:
If you sweet spot d-air a grounded opponent at a certain percentage you can true combo it into her up special.
(Side note: I believe a true combo is it when it shows that it is a combo in training mode, but I have actually no idea.)

Now the percentage I'm talking about is around 35-60% (depending heavily on the character), so it doesn't sound too useful other than damage because for the most characters Zelda's grounded up special KOs only around 60% or above.
But, I tried it myself in training mode and it can KO Sheik the earliest already at 37%, Bowser at 45% and Jigglypuff at 24% on Final Destination from the middle of the stage or even the other side.
(I have no idea if you can DI this in any way because I had to test it with the CPU in training mode.)

It however could also be useful even without KOing the opponent since it deals 34% damage, which isn't bad at all, I'd say.

I'm sorry for wasting your time if this is known already for a long time (I actually can't imagine no one tried it before) and I didn't want to create a thread for this one question, so that's why I ask this here.

Stay strong Zelda players!

Zelda does get quite a bit out of landing a dair on a grounded opponent like Lkicks so it makes sense for her to be able to elevator her opponent as well. I will say however, that it's terribly unsafe as landing with dair results in a lot of landing lag so it's punishable, plus the opponent can tech the dair nullifying any kind of followup and probably punishing her landing at the same time. Because of the fact that it's techable, it's not a true combo (it's only a true combo if they don't tech it).

Thanks a lot for the percentages where it works. I don't believe we have that data anywhere so it's much appreciated. I'm glad you went to all the work to test it out! Good to know it works on Sheik as a kill option.

 

[Kealmir]

I usually repeat something in training until I can consistently do it several times in a row, and then try it against a few characters and Sheik to make sure it's a reliable option. Level 9 CPU's tend to perfect airdodge and powershield strings that aren't true combos but I don't believe they can DI properly. I've been playing around with Forward/Down throw
to try and create a Up-B setup, once you understand the hitbox of the first hit on her Up-B you can manipulate the direction the opponent is launched with some practice. it only seems to work at 75-90% (75% with some rage) as a kill throw option though

can't figure out how to embed this properly lol

Spoiler: GIF

 

[Thelimomon]

Zelda does get quite a bit out of landing a dair on a grounded opponent like Lkicks so it makes sense for her to be able to elevator her opponent as well. I will say however, that it's terribly unsafe as landing with dair results in a lot of landing lag so it's punishable, plus the opponent can tech the dair nullifying any kind of followup and probably punishing her landing at the same time. Because of the fact that it's techable, it's not a true combo (it's only a true combo if they don't tech it).

Thanks a lot for the percentages where it works. I don't believe we have that data anywhere so it's much appreciated. I'm glad you went to all the work to test it out! Good to know it works on Sheik as a kill option.

Ah, okay, I forgot that it's techable. It almost seemed to good to be true.
And I actually thought it wasn't so punishable, but I usually play Dedede, so I pretty much have a different definition of lag.

 

[Zylach]

Ah, okay, I forgot that it's techable. It almost seemed to good to be true.
And I actually thought it wasn't so punishable, but I usually play Dedede, so I pretty much have a different definition of lag.

That makes sense lol. What's D3's fastest move anyway?

 

[Thelimomon]

That makes sense lol. What's D3's fastest move anyway?

His fastest grounded move is his d-tilt and his fastest aerial is n-air, it comes out rather quick and has not too much landing lag.
But the rest of his attacks are pretty slow.

 

[Krysco]

Greetings Zeldas! I am (slowly but surely) making a video series analyzing every stage in the game. BF is already covered and MV is next and after that is DL64. I recall a bug or glitch of sorts where when Zelda uses Farore's Wind from left to right or right to left on the base, she ends up in the air and therefore has her aerial end lag + landing lag rather than her usual grounded FW endlag. I tested it to see if it was patched out and it wasn't. I'm going to test to see if something similar happens to Palutena or Mewtwo.

Anyways, none of that is a question and I do have one so here it is: does the glitch on DL64 affect Zelda at all? I recall reading that the aerial endlag is shorter than the grounded one but the added landing lag makes the lag equal. I'm not sure if this prevents her from performing her ledge cancel, at least from the ground. Since she appears in the air I can imagine windboxes such as Whispy or FLUDD could push Zelda off stage when she reappears, ending a stock early. Not sure if that's possible or not or if that can happen even with a grounded landing. I would also assume she can't be buried by the likes of Villager's dsmash or DK's Headbutt until she lands and Mewtwo's Disable probably wouldn't stun her either since she's in the air.

 

[Zylach]

Greetings Zeldas! I am (slowly but surely) making a video series analyzing every stage in the game. BF is already covered and MV is next and after that is DL64. I recall a bug or glitch of sorts where when Zelda uses Farore's Wind from left to right or right to left on the base, she ends up in the air and therefore has her aerial end lag + landing lag rather than her usual grounded FW endlag. I tested it to see if it was patched out and it wasn't. I'm going to test to see if something similar happens to Palutena or Mewtwo.

Anyways, none of that is a question and I do have one so here it is: does the glitch on DL64 affect Zelda at all? I recall reading that the aerial endlag is shorter than the grounded one but the added landing lag makes the lag equal. I'm not sure if this prevents her from performing her ledge cancel, at least from the ground. Since she appears in the air I can imagine windboxes such as Whispy or FLUDD could push Zelda off stage when she reappears, ending a stock early. Not sure if that's possible or not or if that can happen even with a grounded landing. I would also assume she can't be buried by the likes of Villager's dsmash or DK's Headbutt until she lands and Mewtwo's Disable probably wouldn't stun her either since she's in the air.

The lag difference between her aerial reappear on DL and her regular grounded reappaer is negligible. Landing while in freefall after FW grants a little less lag than the grounded reappear endlag but, since she has to wait to land, the lag is basically equal. The examples you mentioned are correct but also very situational and and of those characters would just have to wait a few more frames to input their attacks in order for them to work properly. The examples of FLUDD and wispy, though, are absolutely right and she'll be pushed off if she's caught trying to snipe too close to the ledge (The same problem with din's near the ledge). The one clear difference is that the KB of the aerial reappear is far greater than the KB of grounded reappear so a FW snipe would end a stock earlier on DL than on other stages.

This does mess up her ledge cancelling as well since she hovers a while before she starts her descent, she'll actually go farther on DL than she usually does and SD. Plus, ledge cancelling only works when she contacts the ground right before moving off the ledge. Since she doesn't make contact with the ground until after she would on normal stages, the whole point of ledge cancelling is lost.

 

[Rickster]

The weird aerial landing lag thing only happens if you try and teleport straight left or right on the ground. (I'm 90% sure this is the case but test it anyway because I might actually be wrong.)

Also, if you start the teleport in the air and go down, you'll have the usual grounded endlag. This also means that you can ledge cancel if you start in the air rather than on the ground. If what I said in the first paragraph is true, you should also be able to ledge cancel from the ground as long as you don't hold straight left or right (aka shorten the teleport distance).

 

[Krysco]

So the one benefit Zelda gets is a stronger returning hitbox. Other than that, she's still susceptible to ground-only moves since all the opponent has to do is wait, she can be pushed off stage by windboxes, including the windbox produced by the stage itself and her ledge cancel is more restricted.

I'll be sure to mention that in the video although I tested this with other characters and it affects more than just Zelda. Mewtwo ends his Teleport in an aerial state, making him 'glide' further but also suffering more endlag and landing lag, Lucario gets his atrocious landing lag. Fox and Falco get their landing lag though I'm not sure if that matters at all. Mii Swordfighter's 2nd up special is affected and apparently benefits from it. Palutena is in the same boat as Mewtwo but with far less endlag.

Oddly enough, Mewtwo and Palutena are still able to perform their ledge cancels. It appears that this forced aerial state only applies if you cross a certain point or perhaps numerous points in the middle of the stage. When I tested with Mewtwo, I tested on the left side of the right platform and went directly right and he either ledge cancelled or got his usual grounded lag. From the same spot, going left Mewtwo ended in his aerial state. Since Farore's Wind goes so far, it appears that it always crosses the forced aerial point...either that or she SDs trying to avoid it unless you hold diagonally down which shortens the distance it goes.

 

[BoxedOccaBerrys]

What are Zelda's best true combos?
What are her best kill moves?
When should you use Din's Fire?

 

[Furret]

What are Zelda's best true combos?
What are her best kill moves?
When should you use Din's Fire?

1. short hand bread and butter stuff, Dthrow -> Nair, Utilt -> Nair, Jab -> DashA, Falling Nair -> USpecial/Dsmash/Utilt
   1. Long hand true combos, strings and 50/50s
      

      • Nair, the grand daddy of combo starters, works at any percent% and has kill potential. make sure you hit the ground before the final hit though and always try to get two hits in
        • Nair -> Utilt
          • the low percent option, giving the longest strings to work with at low percents, almost always guaranteed and should be the go to option if you hit a grounded opponent with only one hit of nair (it will pop them up so nothing else will connect before they can jump out)
        • Nair -> Dtilt
          • great for leading into the mid percent 50/50s that Dtilt has, guaranteed
        • Nair -> Dsmash
          • a late kill option and sets up for edge guards, guaranteed
        • Nair -> Uspecial
          • great kill option, still need to follow DI, the downside is your opponent wont always be unable to act as how much frame advantage you have is reliant when you land during nair
      • Jab, decent set up move, usable for comboing low-mid percents
        • Jab -> dash attack
          • this is the usual follow up, it true combos and bad DI will give you another dash attack
        • Jab -> grab
          • a mix up option, doesn't catch jumps, but it's still useful and it's best to use an option that boosts your grab range (dash attack cancel grab or roll canceled grab come to mind)
        • Jab -> Farores
          • best used when jab starts to cause tumbles in mid %s, forcing your opponent to tech instead of fast fall shield
      • Utilt, strong option if you can catch someone in it, stings into itself at low percents, leads to 50/50s and some combos
        • utilt -> uair
          • catches jumps, allowing you to go for air dodge reads, true combos if you hit behind zelda with utilt
        • utilt -> Nair
          • same as above, but can true combo if you hit people at the start of utilt as well
        • utilt -> Uspecial
          • only true combos at very specific percents and when you hit with the tail end of utilt, making it sadly hard to use
      • Dtilt, leads to low percent strings and mid percent 50/50s
        • dtilt -> utilt
          • good option at low percents to stick opponents into a higher damaging string
        • dtilt -> Ftilt(up angled, or no angle)
          • your option should your opponent be out of range for more dtilts or utilts at low percents, can true combo hard to tell when though
        • dtilt -> Fsmash
          • for your airdodge happy opponents at low percents (can go for Usmash at mid %s instead of this)
        • dtilt -> Fair
          • strong 50/50 option in mid percents
        • dtilt -> Uair
          • tail end of options for dtilt, I hardly if ever use this one
      • Dthrow, obvious blah blah blah, dthrow the game
        • Dthrow -> nair
          • the option that combos at low to near mid percents
        • Dthrow -> Bair
          • the mid to higher percent option meant for reading an airdodge then punishing
        • Dthrow -> Uair
          • the standard 50/50 to use at mid percents
      • Uthrow, only really usable against fast fallers
        • Uthrow -> utilt
          • super low percent combo option
        • Uthrow -> Usmash
          • super low percent combo option
      • Dair, the hard read option you could say
        • Dair -> Uair
          • looks flashy, goes to kill percents

2. , Fsmash is consistent too. it's more about the players as Fsmash, bair, fair, dair, Uair, USpecial, Dspecial, Ftilt, Dsmash and Usmash all have some sort of kill potential. For instance I think Usmash is garbage or how everyone knows ftilt is garbage
   
3. possibly force lower recoveries/landing trap after combos or just never cause you'll never get decent shield pressure with it

 

[BJN39]

1. short hand bread and butter stuff, Dthrow -> Nair, Utilt -> Nair, Jab -> DashA, Falling Nair -> USpecial/Dsmash/Utilt
   1. Long hand true combos, strings and 50/50s
2. , Fsmash is consistent too. it's more about the players as Fsmash, bair, fair, dair, Uair, USpecial, Dspecial, Ftilt, Dsmash and Usmash all have some sort of kill potential. For instance I think Usmash is garbage or how everyone knows ftilt is garbage
   
3. possibly force lower recoveries/landing trap after combos or just never cause you'll never get decent shield pressure with it

Usmash is generally garbage, but it should be kept in mind at kill percent for a surprise KO or an airdodge read because it does have ridiculous kill power now. (TY Sakurai for happening to look like you heard exactly what I asked for with this buff in 1.0.8 <3 BJN)

 

[Zylach]

Dash attack and ftilt can also kill if the opponent is around 120%-ish and near the ledge. DA, in particular, is my favorite punish tool since it's mobile.

As for Din's Fire. Use it when your opponent is offstage to force them to recover low so you can attempt a dair spike. I only ever use it against slow characters when my opponent is on stage (Or hyper campers like Pacman when my phantom is out front blocking all his crap because he will try to time you out).

 

[Furret]

Usmash is generally garbage, but it should be kept in mind at kill percent for a surprise KO or an airdodge read because it does have ridiculous kill power now. (TY Sakurai for happening to look like you heard exactly what I asked for with this buff in 1.0.8 <3 BJN)

never noticed it was buffed, I still think it needs improved hit boxes horizontally though. Kinda wish it was a hard read combo starter personally, would be rather fun to use it that way

Either way I say it depends on the player for a reason. As me and my friend who finally got smash 4 (who is overall a stronger player then me) really enjoys using Usmash to counter landings, where as I enjoy Fsmash

 

[DinsFireIsOP]

Just fought a Sonic on For Glory. Is there something Zelda can do against him? How do we approach him? I feel like Sonic is my nemesis as Zelda. I'm just lost in this matchup.

(By the way, is this the right place for this question? The matchup thread is only for discussing the current matchup, right?)

 

[Furret]

Just fought a Sonic on For Glory. Is there something Zelda can do against him? How do we approach him? I feel like Sonic is my nemesis as Zelda. I'm just lost in this matchup.

(By the way, is this the right place for this question? The matchup thread is only for discussing the current matchup, right?)

Having played sonic, I would like to give a recommendation, but in general there is no approaching sonic. Other then getting life lead and forcing him to approach, there isn't much you can do to force the fight as zelda

It is important when playing against sonic to know your low commitment buttons. things like Jab, Dtilt and utilt to a lesser extent are mores you can use to fish out when he does approach and wont get you hard punished

 

[Zylach]

Sonic is one of those characters I think really counters Zelda as he's incredibly difficult to punish and is too fast for her to keep up with. Her disjoints only get her so far because they have slow startup. My only real suggestion in this MU is to try and beat him at his own mindgames. SHAD, empty hop, condition him to approach you in predictable ways. One of Zelda's best tools in this MU is nair because it keeps you mobile while also having a long lasting hitbox that's slightly disjointed so you can possibly catch him out of a spindash jump.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Is Zelda's new combo seriously a pre-patch Diddy confirm?

 

[Furret]

Is Zelda's new combo seriously a pre-patch Diddy confirm?

yes it's just stronger now

 

[Zylach]

Is Zelda's new combo seriously a pre-patch Diddy confirm?

Zelda always had a kind of hoo-hah. It's just more reliable now with the change to uair. If you DI away, you get bair'ed. If you don't DI, you get uair'ed. Unfortunately, the KBG of her uair was decreased to compensate but it'll still kill.

 

[KlicKlac]

Is Zelda's new combo seriously a pre-patch Diddy confirm?

Zelda always has been able to do a hoo-hah dthrow to upair KO. The patch didn't change zelda's dthrow knockback, or her air speed, or how fast upair comes out.

However, with a bigger grab range and bigger upair hitbox, this combo is easier to do.

That video spreading around of "zelda is the new diddy hoo-hah" is unfortunately spreading some misinformation. This combo is not new.

 

[Rickster]

I hope people won't think this is Bowser level silliness. If they do it'll just get nerfed back next patch.

But everyone is freaking out over it so it probably will happen. Sigh.

 

[KlicKlac]

I hope people won't think this is Bowser level silliness. If they do it'll just get nerfed back next patch.

But everyone is freaking out over it so it probably will happen. Sigh.

Have you looked at "DL with it" 's youtube channel (the guy who made the viral zelda hoo-hah vid)? A lot of his vids are clickbaity stuff that rely on your opponent having bad DI.

 

[Bunni]

So I know about ledge cancel farore's wind, but why is it sometimes it seems like I SHOULD have ledge canceled and instead I just slip off the stage and die?

Also what the hell do you even do against Clouds who instantly charge limit and laugh off all your approach attempts.

 

[Furret]

So I know about ledge cancel farore's wind, but why is it sometimes it seems like I SHOULD have ledge canceled and instead I just slip off the stage and die?

Also what the hell do you even do against Clouds who instantly charge limit and laugh off all your approach attempts.

1. the spacing rather precise, but very consistent. You can get to the point where you could come down from mid air with farores onto platforms and still cancel. Precise spacing as mentioned makes this super difficult. You'll learn the spacing as you use it
2. there's not much zelda can do, but if you have to try to get into a range that forces him to do other options. If he is on the ground he will shield and if he camp platforms try to space nair at his feet for pressure.
   • once he has charge I'm not even sure how zelda can approach. cause you're more looking for him to make the first move, my advice would be try to bait him to come to you.

 

[Zylach]

So I know about ledge cancel farore's wind, but why is it sometimes it seems like I SHOULD have ledge canceled and instead I just slip off the stage and die?

Also what the hell do you even do against Clouds who instantly charge limit and laugh off all your approach attempts.

Zelda is a character with a lackluster approach and Cloud wrecks poor approaches. It's kind of a lose-lose situation. If we approach and interrupt his limit charge, he stuffs our approach options really really well. If we don't approach, then we don't risk getting annihilated under those circumstances and we can try to zone him out like we want to do but we do so at the expense of Cloud getting limit. In my opinion, your best option is probably to get into mid range while he's charging and attempt to space phantom 2 against him in an attempt to pressure him without risking getting horribly punished for trying too hard to interrupt him with hard approaches like landing Lkicks/nair/dair or dash attack/grab mixups.

You can also try to space jab and dtilt against him though he'll almost certainly cancel limit charge and beat out our spacing tools with his superior spacing tools and then he'll just go back to charging limit when he's gotten us out of his space.

 

[MadCanard]

I've been toying around with some Footstool Stuff on Zelda and i haven't seen any relevant info on any Footstool setups, I managed to get some out of downthrow in 0-45% range on a few characters but i can't tell if i'm just getting lucky. Is there even a way for Zelda to reset the opponent after landing from a footstool?

I've experimented with fair, dair and bair while falling after landing the footstool to reset into a downtilt + regrab similar to the Cpt. Falcon Footstool combo, but can't tell if the regrab and footstool is just dumb luck on my behalf.

Has anyone else tried similar setups with any success?

I find up tilt at lower percentages leads into a somewhat reliable footstool. Although I'm practicing in training mode and not a real person so perhaps it's not as easier as it's making me think.

 

[KlicKlac]

I rarely am able to punish an opponent's ledge getup options, and for much of the cast, getting back on the stage from the ledge is free for them. What is everyone's "go-to" move when you have an opponent hanging on the ledge and you want to intercept him as he is getting up?

I wonder if there is a good option for zelda that people have found works most successfully in punishing your opponent as he is getting up. I'm not looking to land hard read lightning kicks, but rather an option that is the most reliable and consistent on landing some damage on the opponent as he is getting back on stage.

 

[Furret]

What is everyone's "go-to" move when you have an opponent hanging on the ledge and you want to intercept him as he is getting up?

depends on the get up option,

• well spaced fsmash catches everything that isn't jump
  • it's hard to describe the perfect spot, but spacing should be a little farther away from ledge for big characters and a little closer for small opponents.
• shield is good against get up attacks, will let you try to go for grab punish on reaction to neutral get up and you can release shield if they roll, and is safe against people that let go of ledge and jump up with an aerial
  • if they do a get up attack on your shield, I recommend releasing shield and going for dsmash or farores
  • if you get the grab fthrow should be your go to
  • if you see a roll its really dependant on how fast you react
  • if they come up with an aerial chances are they will land and you will get the punish from their landing lag
• nair is generally your best option against people that jump, its also generally safe from get up attacks
  • if they do go for get up attack your punish could either be FF nair or you can land and punish with like a dsmash
• Usmash is another option to catch jumps, but is a harder read, although at the same time it does catch neutral get up
• really obvious **** can be punish with farores, unless you are trying to be fancy, farores is the most optimal punish because it can catch all get up options (not with the same spacing) and chances are if they are on the ledge against zelda it will kill (zelda doesn't force people onto the ledge at low %s)

if you're wondering why i all of a sudden am recommending dsmash over say dtilt is because this is basically what dsmash was made for. quick punish with decent damage that resets the situation. You can also bait get up options, an empty jump is a good way of baiting a roll, a dtilt or jab is a good way of baiting a get up attack

 

[KlicKlac]

depends on the get up option,

• well spaced fsmash catches everything that isn't jump
  • it's hard to describe the perfect spot, but spacing should be a little farther away from ledge for big characters and a little closer for small opponents.
• shield is good against get up attacks, will let you try to go for grab punish on reaction to neutral get up and you can release shield if they roll, and is safe against people that let go of ledge and jump up with an aerial
  • if they do a get up attack on your shield, I recommend releasing shield and going for dsmash or farores
  • if you get the grab fthrow should be your go to
  • if you see a roll its really dependant on how fast you react
  • if they come up with an aerial chances are they will land and you will get the punish from their landing lag
• nair is generally your best option against people that jump, its also generally safe from get up attacks
  • if they do go for get up attack your punish could either be FF nair or you can land and punish with like a dsmash
• Usmash is another option to catch jumps, but is a harder read, although at the same time it does catch neutral get up
• really obvious **** can be punish with farores, unless you are trying to be fancy, farores is the most optimal punish because it can catch all get up options (not with the same spacing) and chances are if they are on the ledge against zelda it will kill (zelda doesn't force people onto the ledge at low %s)

if you're wondering why i all of a sudden am recommending dsmash over say dtilt is because this is basically what dsmash was made for. quick punish with decent damage that resets the situation. You can also bait get up options, an empty jump is a good way of baiting a roll, a dtilt or jab is a good way of baiting a get up attack

Huh, so one thing I am getting from this is to space yourself and shield. Then try to react to the opponents get up option. If they jump you can get them with Nair. If they roll you can get them with dsmash. If they do a normal getup, you can grab them or use farore's.

Thanks.

 

[Furret]

Huh, so one thing I am getting from this is to space yourself and shield. Then try to react to the opponents get up option. If they jump you can get them with Nair. If they roll you can get them with dsmash. If they do a normal getup, you can grab them or use farore's.

Spacing works if you want to go for fsmash, when you space it out for anything else it simply doesn't have the range, power, disjoint or priority you could get, you simply need the property of fsmash to space punishes near the ledge

Then try to react to the opponents get up option. If they jump you can get them with Nair. If they do a normal getup, you can grab them or use farore's.

jump and normal get up are very hard to react to. You'll have to read jumps with zelda if you want to catch them with a nair. nuetral get up reactions are even harder then jump, I would not go for farores neutral get up to shield is a favorite for a lot of people

If they roll you can get them with dsmash.

you can go for pivot Dsmash if your punish is late, but even with shield drop into the equation you can get a whole lot more. getting use to punishing rolls can take a while, just because it's more about what to punish with

A big old tldr for this is; there is no one solution to any scenario, it's good to have your go to moves, but doing the same things every time will allow your opponent to easily adapt

 

[KlicKlac]

Spacing works if you want to go for fsmash, when you space it out for anything else it simply doesn't have the range, power, disjoint or priority you could get, you simply need the property of fsmash to space punishes near the ledge

jump and normal get up are very hard to react to. You'll have to read jumps with zelda if you want to catch them with a nair. nuetral get up reactions are even harder then jump, I would not go for farores neutral get up to shield is a favorite for a lot of people

you can go for pivot Dsmash if your punish is late, but even with shield drop into the equation you can get a whole lot more. getting use to punishing rolls can take a while, just because it's more about what to punish with

A big old tldr for this is; there is no one solution to any scenario, it's good to have your go to moves, but doing the same things every time will allow your opponent to easily adapt

Yeah, I understand you. Nothing is guaranteed, of course, but I'm trying to improve my success rate in capitalizing on get up attempts. It seems shielding near the ledge is pretty good when you are not sure what your opponent is going to do, I think.