What did the people who played it think? (Especially the invitational players and the CT members)

[Vkrm]

You're probably right, but when it comes to competitive games, highly-skilled players should be heard out.

He didn't ask to play a direct part in balancing. What he wanted was to play a for glory match with Sak with the stakes being the victor balances the game. Very obviously sarcasm but sakurai got all defensive.

 

[PLATINUM7]

He didn't ask to play a direct part in balancing. What he wanted was to play a for glory match with Sak with the stakes being the victor balances the game. Very obviously sarcasm but sakurai got all defensive.

Really? From what I've heard Sakurai just came up with a witty comeback. Something like there isn't enough room to put him in the credits IIRC.

 

[Mr.C]

Half? I highly doubt that the majority of Brawl copies that were sold were bought by 'competitive' players. 11.49 million Brawl copies sold as of 2013, mind you. Smash competitive scene is not nearly 6 million people, bub.

Simply buying the game doesn't = part of the Smash community, bub.

 

[Vkrm]

Really? From what I've heard Sakurai just came up with a witty comeback. Something like there isn't enough room to put him in the credits IIRC.

I heard his response was,
"Have you ever made a video game before?"

(Awkward silence from the the crowd.)

Doom says no.

(More silence)

"Well our balancing staff is full."

 

[PLATINUM7]

I heard his response was,
"Have you ever made a video game before?"

(Awkward silence from the the crowd.)

Doom says no.

(More silence)

"Well our balancing staff is full."

I listened to the audio. First he did ask if he's made a game before. Then he said that there just isn't enough room for him. All of it seemed pretty light hearted and everyone was laughing. I guess the person was just being cheeky and Sakurai played along. Sakurai was then asked by the same person for just a friendly match. The only silence was during the translation.

 

[BioZelink]

No, Sakurai was definitely talking about Samus. Sakurai's point was that it was surprising that no one picked Samus because he thought Samus was the strongest character. Zero picked ZSS, so Sakurai couldn't have been referring to ZSS.

He said Samus was the strongest character in Smash 4 in the current version of the game. Someone didn't pay attention...Hugs...you too

 

[LunethF]

As for the topic at hand, this was posted in another thread:

The salt is real. Never heard if her before the tournament and I'm fairly sure they were scraping the bottom of the barrel for female players judging by her skill and lack of respect.

 

[Mr.C]

The salt is real. Never heard if her before the tournament and I'm fairly sure they were scraping the bottom of the barrel for female players judging by her skill and lack of respect.

 

[Ulevo]

The salt is real. Never heard if her before the tournament and I'm fairly sure they were scraping the bottom of the barrel for female players judging by her skill and lack of respect.

Yeah, I saw nothing wrong with her skill in this video. She's not amazing or anything, but she wasn't playing poorly by any margin. She just got outplayed.

 

[OptimistNic]

I think Sakurai really are ignoring the competitive fanbase, and I don't think he's going to take ANY of the feedback from E3. This was from an interview by Kotaku last year:

Kotaku: Do you ever talk to the high-level competitive players when you're balancingSmash Bros.?

Sakurai: Mostly I don't incorporate feedback like that. Basically, Smash Bros.is designed to be sort of targeted at the center, intermediate players, and if you think of sort of a skill graph or something where if you're targeting just the peak of that performance level, you're targeting a very small group of people. We wanna avoid a situation where it becomes a game sort of like other competitive fighting games, where it's only apreciated by a very small, passionate group of sort of maniac players. We definitely don't want that sort of situation. It's supposed to be a fun game for a wide variety of people.

 

[BlueBlue]

I have been reading a lot of people referring to the "have you ever made a game" line and it kind of reminds me of Phil Fish's infamous exchange where he says "they (modern japanese games) suck" and a follow up (that is recorded nowhere so we are left with the zinger alone).
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5Kb_qCZGU1Y
The question starts at 48 min - please give it a listen for the full response. My best attempt at transcribing:
"I'm a competitive super smash bros player, commentator, and tournament organizer and I'd like to know if I challenge you to a match for ultimate glory and I beat you if I could have a hand in balancing the game."
"Have you ever created a game?
So right now our staff credits list is huge with the number of people who are involved with this game. Actually, the staff list is already done. And because of the timing with which [it appears?] it's going to be difficult to add [more?] anyone."
"Should we play anyway?"
"I'll think about it."

The "have you made a game" bit is taken as a dismissal of worth, like "if you're not a game designer how could you have anything useful to contribute", but in my opinion it's actually "Have you ever managed a very large project? There's no way we can add someone to the staff 95% of the way to shipping."

 

[Giygacoal]

Alright, I'll look for the audio myself. It does seem out of character for Sakurai to be a jerk.

 

[ProjectAngel]

I think Sakurai really are ignoring the competitive fanbase, and I don't think he's going to take ANY of the feedback from E3. This was from an interview by Kotaku last year:

Kotaku: Do you ever talk to the high-level competitive players when you're balancingSmash Bros.?

Sakurai: Mostly I don't incorporate feedback like that. Basically, Smash Bros.is designed to be sort of targeted at the center, intermediate players, and if you think of sort of a skill graph or something where if you're targeting just the peak of that performance level, you're targeting a very small group of people. We wanna avoid a situation where it becomes a game sort of like other competitive fighting games, where it's only apreciated by a very small, passionate group of sort of maniac players. We definitely don't want that sort of situation. It's supposed to be a fun game for a wide variety of people.

Competitive players only make up a small bit of the Smash fanbase- if they're catered to TOO much, the game will simply alienate everyone else who wants to play and enjoy the game. Same thing goes with the more casual crowd.

Sakurai isn't trying to ignore competitive players, per se. He just wants to find that happy medium that will attract both sides of the coin, and he'll take any feedback that will help him maintain that medium.

This is what I think.

 

[ToothiestAura]

Alright, I'll look for the audio myself. It does seem out of character for Sakurai to be a jerk.

It was likely something lost in translation.

 

[Mithost]

Hi guys! I played a few games at a desolate Canadian Best Buy. I got 3 sessions in before I had to go. I posted a quick blurb on reddit about what it feels like.

When I went there, the Nintendo rep did ask me for my opinion on the game. They noticed that I brought my own GC controller (we couldn't use them) and wrote down what I said about the game. I said something around "Characters felt really fast and good when on the ground, but a lot of that was lost when we tried to fight in the air. I remember being able to control characters a bit better in melee".

The game feels really different than previous smash titles. It's like a slightly faster brawl when you are in the air, but on the ground it feels like something no smash game has done before. The gameplay videos don't do it justice.

Basically, movement and fighting on the ground is really good, while in the air it's just slightly faster than brawl. Rolling is really quick and as a lot of characters you don't turn around from it. You can do a million things out of pivot that you couldn't do in Melee or Brawl, and all of them come out really quick. Greninja and Little Mac are a lot of fun in that regard.

Marth feels really lame right now, but I guess that's just because he's not really a good ground fighter. His back air is pretty fast and can be used for spacing.

Mario is crazy good. Feels a lot like P:M Mario. He has a lot of quick combos and followups (see the PewPewU combo from the invitational).

Basically, you can't really play this game like Brawl or Melee. Air game isn't really that good, simply because ground game got a lot better. There are a lot of ground techniques we haven't figured out yet. People will get used to the new features and tricks once a Wii U demo comes out. It feels very nice to play in person.

 

[Senario]

Competitive players only make up a small bit of the Smash fanbase- if they're catered to TOO much, the game will simply alienate everyone else who wants to play and enjoy the game. Same thing goes with the more casual crowd.

Sakurai isn't trying to ignore competitive players, per se. He just wants to find that happy medium that will attract both sides of the coin, and he'll take any feedback that will help him maintain that medium.

This is what I think.

I dunno, league of legends caters to the competitive crowd by supporting balance from the top down and hosting tournaments but you don't see that stopping people or alienating them from the game. I am terrible at the game and I still have fun with friends. Cause you know, it has aspects for both a casual and competitive game. Smash is No different. There are ways to cater to the competitive crowd and make it accessible. Think super training in pokemon. Accessible way to EV train. Lower landing lag and good mobility for promoting an offensive game do not need complicated things to be put in.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

The game is pretty good overall. I kept thinking that the physics of the game were closer to Melee. The tech skill is definitely Brawl's though. Fast falling is much better than Brawl.

There's quite a bit of info here so check it out.

*Samus:

Spoiler

Missile canceling is gone. Charge shot is very fast. I only played her in Smash run but I didn't think she was too good. She can run pretty fast but I used her in Smash run so speed may have been adjusted when I tried to see her dash but I'm pretty sure she can run quickly regardless. Nair is nerfed I'd say. You can't hold it out like in Melee. It is a front then back kick. Dair comes out quickly iirc. Her new colors are way better than Brawl. Theres a Silver one that has red lines on it that looks great. All the others are just improved from Brawl. I can't really remember any others.

Rosalina:

Spoiler

She's not my play style at all. She's going to take practice for someone to be good with her. I was not good with her in the FFA I was in. I tried summoning a Luma after my other one disappeared and it didn't show up. It appeared after a few seconds of losing it. I don't exactly remember how it worked. Theres pink, gold, and green colors for her and they don't change the lumas color. Luma changes depending on the amount of damage he has taken (or at least that was my impression). She seems kinda weak imo. Good 1v1 character I'm sure

Zero Suit Samus:

Spoiler

Too stronk. She's pretty good. She's fast. Spacing with fast fall back airs was good to me. Brawl players of ZSS would like her a lot (since I was one). All of her d-smash combos remain in tact (as far as I could tell) I used her in a FFA. Red replaces the pink color and theres also a black color.

*Zelda:

Spoiler

meh. I used her in Smash run and I really couldn't tell much from that. Her up B is very quick like P:M. Down B is weird. You kinda need to charge it a second before it can work. The Phantom's don't go down slopes. They just stay in front of you. Over B was really nerfed in terms of spamming and theres a delay from when you release the over B to the explosion happening like Melee. Side B isn't a very good move anymore imo. The distance travels further than when you let go of b as well. So it will travel more distance after it disappears and then reappears for the attack. This could be good for mind games though. New up taunt thats pretty similar to the last one. She doesn't have that white hair color and the blonde hair looks a little greenish.

*Pit:

Spoiler

He's pretty good imo. I used him in Smash run so I couldn't get a good grip on his combo ability and such. I like how up B works though its not as far as I thought it would be and there's no freedom of control once you do it in a direction. Arrows are slower and travel a shorter distance. I guess that makes sense since thats how it was in KI:U. He doesn't run very fast IMO.

*Kirby:

Spoiler

Kirby's new voice is amazing. Bye sounds great and the side taunt makes the sounds like it does in P:M but re recorded. Kirby seems ok. I could only use him in Smash run. His over B in the air comes out twice but very slowly and it doesn't do anything to your momentum. It can still be charged in the air as well.

*Wii fit trainer:

Spoiler

She's good if you learn her. The deep breathing gives you health if you do it twice (I think maybe once too). It is pretty hard to pull of. You can do it once and it takes a little to get. The second time you do deep breathing it takes a SUPER LONG TIME TO DO. The only colors that were available were Male and Female in green and blue.

*Marth:

Spoiler

I really don't play Marth too much in Smash. His d-tilt didn't kill ZSS in a sudden death. All I tried to do was space with fairs. That is really difficult in the 3ds version. I think they added some lag to his arials.

*=Smash Run.

Smash run

Spoiler

When I played Smash Run I tried to focus mostly on getting a feel of the characters than actually playing Smash Run.

Smash run really sucks imo. Its not fun to me. The first time I did it it was like... SSE but you had to get power ups. I was happy about the pokemon I saw. Ghastly, Haunter, Chandelure, and Koffing for a good ol' 64 throwback. I mean they had us play with comps so... The bottom screen items were forgettable. I almost never remembered to use them but they were pretty helpful. Events were hard to notice. I just went with it when all my stats were maxed out or other random stuff. It tells you but theres so much going on you can't really pay attention to it. I'm sure people will have a lot of fun with this mode when there are 4 real people involved. Ornes killed me 2 or 3 times. I just ran into one while jumping left. I couldn't see it show up so I was out of luck when it killed me that time. They are difficult to avoid unless they are on your mind. I didn't know if music played when they appeared. 3d isn't very good in this mode.

3d is good in this game. It really added depth.

Stages

Spoiler

The stages are fun. If Palutena's temple turns out to be too big I think the FE stage can replace it. Its the perfect size. As long as people don't camp the sides I think its fun. Town and City has crazy platforms. They can kill you if you aren't careful because they will fly off the stage and go away at some points. Spirit tracks is amazing simply because its spirit tracks. Theres not much I can say about it that isn't obvious. Sometimes the train will go to the very right of the stage to pick up another cart so that can kill you. The NSMB stage for 3ds is very nice. Getting 100 coins is easy and you turn into something ridiculously OP.

General stuff

Spoiler

The visuals for both games are REALLY GOOD. The 3ds screen pics don't give it justice. The game really does look good. The game play is SOOO SMOOTH none of that Brawl stuff where you can see all the weird frames like with Fox's jab.

Gameplay is very nice. It takes more from Melee's physics and Brawl's tech skill. B reversals are in. L and R cycle colors in the 3ds version. Dash dancing is hard and garbage.

L is grab and R is shield for 3ds. The pro controller takes getting used to. The flow is off when doing an arial instead of having the thumb go from top to bottom with the c stick (with the gc controller) the flow goes like neutral to up. It is kinda uncomfortable. You can charge smashes with the c stick.

The new ledge mechanics feel strange. Force of habit got to me and I tried to ledge hog someone. It puts you at a disadvantage to do that. You fly off up and backwards from the ledge. It feels unnatural but mostly because it caught me off guard when it happened.

The matches were fun Arceus showed up frequently. Toonlink doesn't have his brown hair color. All the colors for characters are much more solid colors. ZSS's pink outfit is red and Samus' blue outfit is more solid. The colors for this game are really good.

I got to play the demo quite a few times in very short instances. I may misremember somethings. If you have any questions just let me know!!

 

[Chimera]

The game is pretty good overall. I kept thinking that the physics of the game were closer to Melee. The tech skill is definitely Brawl's though. Fast falling is much better than Brawl.

There's quite a bit of info here so check it out.

*Samus:

Spoiler

Missile canceling is gone. Charge shot is very fast. I only played her in Smash run but I didn't think she was too good. She can run pretty fast but I used her in Smash run so speed may have been adjusted when I tried to see her dash but I'm pretty sure she can run quickly regardless. Nair is nerfed I'd say. You can't hold it out like in Melee. It is a front then back kick. Dair comes out quickly iirc. Her new colors are way better than Brawl. Theres a Silver one that has red lines on it that looks great. All the others are just improved from Brawl. I can't really remember any others.

Rosalina:

Spoiler

She's not my play style at all. She's going to take practice for someone to be good with her. I was not good with her in the FFA I was in. I tried summoning a Luma after my other one disappeared and it didn't show up. It appeared after a few seconds of losing it. I don't exactly remember how it worked. Theres pink, gold, and green colors for her and they don't change the lumas color. Luma changes depending on the amount of damage he has taken (or at least that was my impression). She seems kinda weak imo. Good 1v1 character I'm sure

Zero Suit Samus:

Spoiler

Too stronk. She's pretty good. She's fast. Spacing with fast fall back airs was good to me. Brawl players of ZSS would like her a lot (since I was one). All of her d-smash combos remain in tact (as far as I could tell) I used her in a FFA. Red replaces the pink color and theres also a black color.

*Zelda:

Spoiler

meh. I used her in Smash run and I really couldn't tell much from that. Her up B is very quick like P:M. Down B is weird. You kinda need to charge it a second before it can work. The Phantom's don't go down slopes. They just stay in front of you. Over B was really nerfed in terms of spamming and theres a delay from when you release the over B to the explosion happening like Melee. Side B isn't a very good move anymore imo. The distance travels further than when you let go of b as well. So it will travel more distance after it disappears and then reappears for the attack. This could be good for mind games though. New up taunt thats pretty similar to the last one. She doesn't have that white hair color and the blonde hair looks a little greenish.

*Pit:

Spoiler

He's pretty good imo. I used him in Smash run so I couldn't get a good grip on his combo ability and such. I like how up B works though its not as far as I thought it would be and there's no freedom of control once you do it in a direction. Arrows are slower and travel a shorter distance. I guess that makes sense since thats how it was in KI:U. He doesn't run very fast IMO.

*Kirby:

Spoiler

Kirby's new voice is amazing. Bye sounds great and the side taunt makes the sounds like it does in P:M but re recorded. Kirby seems ok. I could only use him in Smash run. His over B in the air comes out twice but very slowly and it doesn't do anything to your momentum. It can still be charged in the air as well.

*Wii fit trainer:

Spoiler

She's good if you learn her. The deep breathing gives you health if you do it twice (I think maybe once too). It is pretty hard to pull of. You can do it once and it takes a little to get. The second time you do deep breathing it takes a SUPER LONG TIME TO DO. The only colors that were available were Male and Female in green and blue.

*Marth:

Spoiler

I really don't play Marth too much in Smash. His d-tilt didn't kill ZSS in a sudden death. All I tried to do was space with fairs. That is really difficult in the 3ds version. I think they added some lag to his arials.

*=Smash Run.

Smash run

Spoiler

When I played Smash Run I tried to focus mostly on getting a feel of the characters than actually playing Smash Run.

Smash run really sucks imo. Its not fun to me. The first time I did it it was like... SSE but you had to get power ups. I was happy about the pokemon I saw. Ghastly, Haunter, Chandelure, and Koffing for a good ol' 64 throwback. I mean they had us play with comps so... The bottom screen items were forgettable. I almost never remembered to use them but they were pretty helpful. Events were hard to notice. I just went with it when all my stats were maxed out or other random stuff. It tells you but theres so much going on you can't really pay attention to it. I'm sure people will have a lot of fun with this mode when there are 4 real people involved. Ornes killed me 2 or 3 times. I just ran into one while jumping left. I couldn't see it show up so I was out of luck when it killed me that time. They are difficult to avoid unless they are on your mind. I didn't know if music played when they appeared. 3d isn't very good in this mode.

3d is good in this game. It really added depth.

Stages

Spoiler

The stages are fun. If Palutena's temple turns out to be too big I think the FE stage can replace it. Its the perfect size. As long as people don't camp the sides I think its fun. Town and City has crazy platforms. They can kill you if you aren't careful because they will fly off the stage and go away at some points. Spirit tracks is amazing simply because its spirit tracks. Theres not much I can say about it that isn't obvious. Sometimes the train will go to the very right of the stage to pick up another cart so that can kill you. The NSMB stage for 3ds is very nice. Getting 100 coins is easy and you turn into something ridiculously OP.

General stuff

Spoiler

The visuals for both games are REALLY GOOD. The 3ds screen pics don't give it justice. The game really does look good. The game play is SOOO SMOOTH none of that Brawl stuff where you can see all the weird frames like with Fox's jab.

Gameplay is very nice. It takes more from Melee's physics and Brawl's tech skill. B reversals are in. L and R cycle colors in the 3ds version. Dash dancing is hard and garbage.

L is grab and R is shield for 3ds. The pro controller takes getting used to. The flow is off when doing an arial instead of having the thumb go from top to bottom with the c stick (with the gc controller) the flow goes like neutral to up. It is kinda uncomfortable. You can charge smashes with the c stick.

The new ledge mechanics feel strange. Force of habit got to me and I tried to ledge hog someone. It puts you at a disadvantage to do that. You fly off up and backwards from the ledge. It feels unnatural but mostly because it caught me off guard when it happened.

The matches were fun Arceus showed up frequently. Toonlink doesn't have his brown hair color. All the colors for characters are much more solid colors. ZSS's pink outfit is red and Samus' blue outfit is more solid. The colors for this game are really good.

I got to play the demo quite a few times so if you have any questions just let me know!!

Quick question. Did you play with a GameCube controller (if you played the wii u one) and if you did, does the shield activate as soon as you press l or r, or only when the trigger clicks down all the way?

 

[Cap'nChreest]

Quick question. Did you play with a GameCube controller (if you played the wii u one) and if you did, does the shield activate as soon as you press l or r, or only when the trigger clicks down all the way?

They only had pro controllers where I was at. People brought GC controllers but they didn't have the adapter.

 

[link2702]

left pretty unimpressed....that's how I felt after playing it....

 

[HoodsxX]

Personally the more I see this game, the more I notice that it really is a whole different game. I definitely think we should wait before commenting on the game as a whole. I'm not well versed in the competitive scene yet, just getting into it. But I do feel that some things could be a bit different. (more the aerials not stalling as much), dash dancing would be nice, but if it's not in the game still looks amazing otherwise. I played the demo a bit and it's quite good imo even without all of the melee movement that everyone's used to. Definitely could feel like the middle of the road between the two when this game finally releases. ^^

 

[Mithost]

Personally the more I see this game, the more I notice that it really is a whole different game. I definitely think we should wait before commenting on the game as a whole. I'm not well versed in the competitive scene yet, just getting into it. But I do feel that some things could be a bit different. (more the aerials not stalling as much), dash dancing would be nice, but if it's not in the game still looks amazing otherwise. I played the demo a bit and it's quite good imo even without all of the melee movement that everyone's used to. Definitely could feel like the middle of the road between the two when this game finally releases. ^^

This is how I feel about it. A lot of stuff from both games are not present in Smash 4, but there is a lot of things that you can only really do in the new game. From what I've seen, there is a metric ton of ground tech that is just waiting to be unlocked. For example, imagine being able to do nearly every option out of Pivot (instead of just grabbing). Imagine what the quickened rolls combined with not changing direction after them will do. This game is something new for smash, and we are just getting started.

 

[Chimera]

They only had pro controllers where I was at. People brought GC controllers but they didn't have the adapter.

Oh ok cool. I imagine it would, but did the pro controller work well for the game?

 

[Cap'nChreest]

Oh ok cool. I imagine it would, but did the pro controller work well for the game?

Its fine. It takes getting used too. As I said in my original post, the flow of your thumb for doing arials if you use the c stick is a bit different. Jumping on the Wii U controller is similar to using b to jump in the GC controller. L and R were a bit confusing. I didn't pay attention to whether it was L & R or ZL &ZR that grabbed. I SD'd in a sudden death because I was trying to ledge hop side b with ZSS but I pressed up on the right stick to jump lol. Its a fine controller and abxy are the same as a 3ds. The buttons are a bit smaller but I didn't have any trouble from what I remember.

 

[Joe73191]

This is what we've been given to see and play. Not saying what we see wrong with it now would be an insult to their desire to make the best game possible. We need to speak up now while there is still time.

 

[PLATINUM7]

I have been reading a lot of people referring to the "have you ever made a game" line and it kind of reminds me of Phil Fish's infamous exchange where he says "they (modern japanese games) suck" and a follow up (that is recorded nowhere so we are left with the zinger alone).
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5Kb_qCZGU1Y
The question starts at 48 min - please give it a listen for the full response. My best attempt at transcribing:
"I'm a competitive super smash bros player, commentator, and tournament organizer and I'd like to know if I challenge you to a match for ultimate glory and I beat you if I could have a hand in balancing the game."
"Have you ever created a game?
So right now our staff credits list is huge with the number of people who are involved with this game. Actually, the staff list is already done. And because of the timing with which [it appears?] it's going to be difficult to add [more?] anyone."
"Should we play anyway?"
"I'll think about it."

The "have you made a game" bit is taken as a dismissal of worth, like "if you're not a game designer how could you have anything useful to contribute", but in my opinion it's actually "Have you ever managed a very large project? There's no way we can add someone to the staff 95% of the way to shipping."

In my opinion the whole thing seems pretty light hearted and really just just sounded like two people joking around only for it to be taken out of context by so many people.


ZeRo seems to really like it
http://www.reddit.com/user/GonzaloZeRo?count=50&after=t1_ci6al5h

 

[Senario]

In my opinion the whole thing seems pretty light hearted and really just just sounded like two people joking around only for it to be taken out of context by so many people.


ZeRo seems to really like it
http://www.reddit.com/user/GonzaloZeRo?count=50&after=t1_ci6al5h

The line seemed like a joke. But it has turned into some abomination to attack competitive players who only want to give constructive criticism.

Also, of course Zero would like it. It is a lot closer to brawl than it is to melee. Definitely not a great in between like Sakurai claimed.

 

[WizKick]

I dunno, league of legends caters to the competitive crowd by supporting balance from the top down and hosting tournaments but you don't see that stopping people or alienating them from the game. I am terrible at the game and I still have fun with friends. Cause you know, it has aspects for both a casual and competitive game. Smash is No different. There are ways to cater to the competitive crowd and make it accessible. Think super training in pokemon. Accessible way to EV train. Lower landing lag and good mobility for promoting an offensive game do not need complicated things to be put in.

I can definitely say games like LoL alienate me, while something like Melee does not. So, as with all things Our mileage may vary. I would notassume you not feeling alienated by something applies to everyone else.

 

[RIDLEY is too SMALL]

The general consensus I've been getting after searching around on twitter and reddit is that (most of) the invitational players and the folks from MIOM seem to be saying that, in its current form, the game doesn't appear to have long-term competitive potential (except for doubles), but they seem to be very confident that Nintendo is listening to feedback and that the final build of the game will be improved. Just about all of them are very positive about the situation. I share their optimism.

 

[Smash G]

This board is the only place that can defend the random offering help to balance the game.

First off they probably have 1000 people doing that. And it's a random person you literally know very little about. Being a competitive player entitles you to nothing and doesn't automatically mean you'd be good at balancing the game. Blablabla it's like hiring someone and can be complex. If anything that person who offered their services was just ridiculous. To do it in that venue was inappropriate and had zero chance of working.

I'm someone who deals with hiring people once in a while. I don't care if you're the best at what I'm hiring for. If you come up to me with a smug attitude while I'm eating dinner or something unrelated to an interview, and without a resume or anything, I'm not hiring you .

 

[CorteX]

Funny how people are bashing PeachyHime's Facebook message that was posted earlier.
At least she's being freaking honest about what she thinks and the majority of the competitive players that were watching the stream that were not brainwashed by the 'hype' of MegaMan's final smash probably felt the same way.
To me, Brawl was terrible, and this game seems to follow the trend.
I'm not going to mention names, but a lot of the people that were invited seem to be sellouts to Nintendo and just make it seem like this is the best game ever, which it is obviously not and it disgusts me.
It's not like they are going to take any advice and shift the game into the right direction. "Have you ever made a game?"
It's not like they are ever going to create another game like Melee, Sakurai even said this in 2010.
It's not like they care about the competitive community at all.

Competitive smash just got a huge traffic spike over the past couple of years, and Nintendo is just taking advantage of popular players.
Wake up and realize you were puppets used by Nintendo to promote Brawl 2.0.

EOF

 

[courte]

Funny how people are bashing PeachyHime's Facebook message that was posted earlier.
At least she's being freaking honest about what she thinks and the majority of the competitive players that were watching the stream that were not brainwashed by the 'hype' of MegaMan's final smash probably felt the same way.
To me, Brawl was terrible, and this game seems to follow the trend.
I'm not going to mention names, but a lot of the people that were invited seem to be sellouts to Nintendo and just make it seem like this is the best game ever, which it is obviously not and it disgusts me.
It's not like they are going to take any advice and shift the game into the right direction. "Have you ever made a game?"
It's not like they are ever going to create another game like Melee, Sakurai even said this in 2010.
It's not like they care about the competitive community at all.

Competitive smash just got a huge traffic spike over the past couple of years, and Nintendo is just taking advantage of popular players.
Wake up and realize you were puppets used by Nintendo to promote Brawl 2.0.

EOF

My *****. That truth tho.

 

[TSM ZeRo]

Game's awesome

 

[INs4niTY-]

If I may offer an idea, wasn't the Brawl demo at E3 years ago run with an engine similar to Melee's (that was obviously changed upon release)? If this is true, then is it not plausible that they did the same here, running the game on an engine similar to Brawl whilst planning to change to the true Smash 4 engine upon release?

Just an idea going off past evidence (maybe?), correct me if I'm wrong.

That is a very good point and has given me some hope! Lol

 

[TSM ZeRo]

EDIT: Wrong thread, oops.

Also, guys, air dodging can be very risky in the demo, as a heads up! Juggling is very powerful.

 

[Zone]

At first glance that does sound douchey to respond with. But then again, who takes help from random people to make a game?

Even if that competitive player knows his stuff, it would require more input from other skilled players, over one or two of them.

Netherrealm studios does.

The guys that made mortal kombat and injustice have been inviting a handful of pro's to test their game and give feedback.

 

[Black Hayato PTA]

Aight, I got to play the demo and I'll say this. I played competitive melee during around the 2005 ken isai chu chillin azen m2k era and I placed well back then (my first tournament was DCSS2 so whenever that was) . I think the game isn't quite brawl, but it definitely isn't melee. But, the thing people are missing is even though I love melee and still play till this day as well a project M, there is no way I can take an incomplete demo of an old build with a small 2 minute play session as a clear indication of competitive smash being ruined.

As a community we should give our input (such as saying more movement options, different ledge options, better combo follow ups out of grab) , but to write it off entirely without getting the full game and actually testing it in its final form is stupid. I'm not going to pretend I like brawl very much (even though I supported it early on and went to tournaments and even won my first brawl tournament I went to down in VT with ECE and them), but I still played it and gave it my all and let the game develop until I realized the meta was based heavily on exploiting time and zoning. It just wasn't aggressive enough for me. It doesn't mean it isn't competitive at all, it just means its not for me.

I think how Nintendo has been seemingly keeping their eyes on the tournament scene and giving us our own mode for online as well as gamecube controllers that are wired is a pretty good sign that they are listening and I think somewhere they are looking to incorporate something that can appeal to us even if it's a completely separate mode that reverts the engines back to a more melee based set up.

I think the game was fun and it does have promise. It feels faster than brawl and it does feel smooth even without the advanced techs, but its just a different game altogether. Let's give it a good shot when it comes out and if its not aggressive and is very zone heavy / dominated by 1 character with superior movement options (metaknight lolz) then we can just continue to play project m and melee for that feel and smash 4 for its own.

 

[TJ-Works]

Netherrealm studios does.

The guys that made mortal kombat and injustice have been inviting a handful of pro's to test their game and give feedback.

Did they ask specifically for professional players? If that's the case, then they're not exactly random.

Also, it's not one or two people here, but a bunch of them to get feedback from a wider scope of people.

 

[Xenorange]

Game isn't out, and these guys had less than a day to play. Sakurai has been making the game for 2 years. It's likely he knows some things that we don't. Meta Knight was thought to be mid tier when Brawl released. Samus might very well be as good as Sakurai claims.

Yeah I love how these people who played the game for a day think they know more about it than the man who made it. Funny that.

 

[Zone]

Did they ask specifically for professional players? If that's the case, then they're not exactly random.

Also, it's not one or two people here, but a bunch of them to get feedback from a wider scope of people.

Mk is catered toward both casual and pro. But netherrealm isn't so full of themselves to 100% know what competitive players want w/o consulting them.

Mk had always done fine with casuals. The pros were asked in so they could cater to both.

So they get huge respect from me