What Beta and 1P Stages could've been playable in VS mode? (Smash 64)

[clydeaker]

What if during the development of Super Smash Bros. (N64) Masahiro Sakurai decided to add some of the Beta or 1-player stages to Multi-player mode. They would all be accessible on the stage select screen in addition to the Multi-player stages and all stage glitches such as freezing, bad spawn locations, timer issues, etc. would be patched/ fixed for VS mode use and training mode use. Which of the following Beta or 1-player stages would you like to have playable in multi-player mode:

Beta Dragon King a Fighting Game Stages:

Spoiler

Note: these are the only known photos of the early version of SSB titled Dragon King a Fighting Game. They are not on the official Super Smash Bros. cartridge. Not much is known about these stages. It is infered these characters are an early version of the Captain Falcon model, to give you a reference of size. You probably know as much as I do about them.

- Dragon King: The Fighting Game stage 1

Note: This may actually be just the top platform from Dragon King: The Fighting Game Stage 2.

- Dragon King: The Fighting Game stage 2

Non Playable Stages:

Spoiler

- Dream Land Beta 1

Note: platforms have grab-able ledges and the main platform can be jumped through from below.

- Dream Land Beta 2

Note: There is a floating platform on the right half of the stage with two vertical platforms moving back and forth on it. None of these three platforms can be moved through. In the middle of the stage, above the right platform, is another platform which a character may jump through, but may not drop down from. Above that platform is an invisible, impassable platform. To the left side of the stage is an oddly shaped floating block, from which a character may hang from any one of its edges. To the left of the block is a square, moving block which can also be grabbed onto.

- "How to Play" Stage (A.K.A. Tutorial Stage)

Note: Left side boundary is extremely small. Only the right side of the main platform can be grabbed. The upper boundary is lower than standard.

1P Game Stages:

Spoiler

- Yoshi's Island no clouds [1P Game Stage 2]
Not to be confused with the multi-player Yoshi's Island stage, This stage doesn't have any clouds and the blast lines are centered around the main stage.

Sorry for the bad photo, this was the best one I could find without clouds.
Note: No clouds appear and the blast lines are more centered around the stage.

- Metal Mario's Stage (A.K.A. Metal Cavern or Meta Crystal)

- Fighting Polygon Team Stage (A.K.A. Battlefield)

- Race to the Finnish [1P Game Bonus Stage 3]

Note: theres no way to die. Is a no KO stage. the only way to end it is to run out of time or through the exit.

- Master Hand Stage (A.K.A. Final Destination)

Break the Targets Stages:

Spoiler

Note: the game will end if your run out of time, stock, or possibly break all of the targets.
- Mario's Break the Targets

- Fox's Break the Targets

- Donkey Kong's Break the Targets

- Samus's Break the Targets

- Luigi's Break the Targets

- Link's Break the Targets

- Yoshi's Break the Targets

- Captain Falcon's Break the Targets

- Kirby's Break the Targets

- Pikachu's Break the Targets

- Jigglypuff's Break the Targets

- Ness's Break the Targets

Board the Platforms Stages:

Spoiler

Note: the game will end if your run out of time, stock, or possibly board all of the platforms.
- Mario's Board the Platforms

- Fox's Board the Platforms

- Donkey Kong's Board the Platforms

- Samus's Board the Platforms

- Luigi's Board the Platforms

- Link's Board the Platforms

- Yoshi's Board the Platforms

- Captain Falcon's Board the Platforms

- Kirby's Board the Platforms

- Pikachu's Board the Platforms

- Jigglypuff's Board the Platforms

- Ness's Board the Platforms

Other:

Spoiler

- Movie Intro Stage
Here's the source.

Note: I wasn't sure if I should include this or not because it's not technically a stage, but I decided to add it anyways.

- Movie Intro Mario Vs. Kirby Flat Stage
Here's the source.

Note: This seems to be a flat stage without platforms and walk-offs on each side.

If I missed any stages please let me know.

 

[Cedricwa]

If the tutorial stage was fixed I would like it a lot

 

[BananaBolts]

What about the movie intro stage that has kirby and mario facing off in a field? The stage aesthetics are quite nice.

 

[Shears]

Make the bed a stage.

 

[clydeaker]

If the tutorial stage was fixed I would like it a lot

If the game didn't freeze at the end of the match, both ledges were grabable, and the blast lines were centered around the stage I would like to see it as a playable Vs mode stage too.

 

[Phislamajama]

I've often wondered how things would be if FD was a playable stage.

 

[AthensHorseParty]

I'm hosting a tournament soon that's going to have Cloudless Yoshi's, FD, BF, and Metal Cavern as legal stages. We're not the best scene in the nation or anything although NTA is a pretty solid online player who is going to be playing with his preferred controller (PS3) so it'll be interesting to see what he makes of the possible stage picks, or maybe he'll just wanna go dreamland every time, who knows?

I feel like a lot of the counterpicking is just going to be playstyle / comfort dependent since nothing about any of the other stages shifts the tiers that much. I can see Fox, Link and maybe Mario getting a lot out of the extra space/lack of platforms on FD but that stage has a super high blast zone which hurts Fox's best kill moves.

I think BF is maybe slightly bigger than Dream Land but it has very unique ledge properties and higher platforms than DL. I haven't tested extensively but I'm pretty sure characters like Yoshi and Falcon can't upsmash through the bottom platforms. DI-ing on the ledge is much harder to do properly so that actually hurts most of the low tiers more than anything but it also hurts Kirby's recovery a good bit and Yoshi is relatively less affected by it so it gives him a slight edge. I think going for stage spikes / back air gimps (getting people caught under the edge).

Yoshi's is a lot like Kongo in the way that the incline effect character hitboxes but I don't know a lot about how specifically that will affect the neutral or anything. You can get good reach on the side plats with down tilts off the edge facing inward, and also Kirby can do super easy rock cancels by just rolling to the edge of the plats if you wanna be trolly. Recovery is a lot different from DL what with there being no wall to ride and unlike Kongo you can't jump up through the main platform.

Metal Cavern is obviously the smallest stage and only has one platform so I expect Kirby/Pika/Falcon will have an easy time comboing characters to death, but the small blast zones and stage size should also make it easier to get early KOs on them as well.

I'm no expert at this game though, and I'm still new to high level play so I can't really predict how these things will play out. I think it will be a lot of fun though. We've been using this romhack at a small friendly weekly smash night I go to and the Smash 4/PM players seem to get into 64 much more with the added stage variety. And then melee kids are all obsessed with 20XX so when I tell them there's a similar romhack for 64 now it definitely peaks their interest.

EDIT: Lol why did you even put Race to the Finish on there?

 

[clydeaker]

I'm hosting a tournament soon that's going to have Cloudless Yoshi's, FD, BF, and Metal Cavern as legal stages. We're not the best scene in the nation or anything although NTA is a pretty solid online player who is going to be playing with his preferred controller (PS3) so it'll be interesting to see what he makes of the possible stage picks, or maybe he'll just wanna go dreamland every time, who knows?

I feel like a lot of the counterpicking is just going to be playstyle / comfort dependent since nothing about any of the other stages shifts the tiers that much. I can see Fox, Link and maybe Mario getting a lot out of the extra space/lack of platforms on FD but that stage has a super high blast zone which hurts Fox's best kill moves.

I think BF is maybe slightly bigger than Dream Land but it has very unique ledge properties and higher platforms than DL. I haven't tested extensively but I'm pretty sure characters like Yoshi and Falcon can't upsmash through the bottom platforms. DI-ing on the ledge is much harder to do properly so that actually hurts most of the low tiers more than anything but it also hurts Kirby's recovery a good bit and Yoshi is relatively less affected by it so it gives him a slight edge. I think going for stage spikes / back air gimps (getting people caught under the edge).

Yoshi's is a lot like Kongo in the way that the incline effect character hitboxes but I don't know a lot about how specifically that will affect the neutral or anything. You can get good reach on the side plats with down tilts off the edge facing inward, and also Kirby can do super easy rock cancels by just rolling to the edge of the plats if you wanna be trolly. Recovery is a lot different from DL what with there being no wall to ride and unlike Kongo you can't jump up through the main platform.

Metal Cavern is obviously the smallest stage and only has one platform so I expect Kirby/Pika/Falcon will have an easy time comboing characters to death, but the small blast zones and stage size should also make it easier to get early KOs on them as well.

I'm no expert at this game though, and I'm still new to high level play so I can't really predict how these things will play out. I think it will be a lot of fun though. We've been using this romhack at a small friendly weekly smash night I go to and the Smash 4/PM players seem to get into 64 much more with the added stage variety. And then melee kids are all obsessed with 20XX so when I tell them there's a similar romhack for 64 now it definitely peaks their interest.

EDIT: Lol why did you even put Race to the Finish on there?

That's really cool how your including some of these stages in a tournament. When I created this thread I was thinking it would be cool if someone were able to patch the game ROM to allow Final Destination, Battlefield, Metal Cavern, Yoshi's island no clouds, Dream land with and without wind, Hyrule with and without tornadoes, and the tutorial stage with some fixes. I know its possible to access them with cheat codes, but I was thinking it would be accessible on the stage selection screen with freezing fixed, spawn locations fixed, blast lines fixed, etc. It would be a specific ROM just for tournaments.

Haha I included race to the finish, all break the targets, all boards the platforms, dragon king a fighting game stages, and the intro stage just because I was afraid people would complain that I didn't include every single stage. just be glad i didn't include each individual break the targets and board the platforms stages in the poll. Ha ha!

 

[Capos]

just be glad i didn't include each individual break the targets and board the platforms stages in the poll. Ha ha!

You should have. Now I have to choose between voting for Samus' BTP and not voting for Jigglypuff's BTP. This is an outrage.

 

[AthensHorseParty]

That's really cool how your including some of these stages in a tournament. When I created this thread I was thinking it would be cool if someone were able to patch the game rom to allow Final Destination, Battlefield, Metal Cavern, Yoshis island no clouds, Dream land without wind, Hyrule without tornados, and the tutorial stage with some fixes. I know its possible to access them with cheat codes, but I was thinking it would be accessible on the stage selection screen with freezing fixed, spawn locations fixed, blast lines fixed, etc. It would be a specific rom just for tournaments.

Haha I included race to the finish, all break the targets, all boards the platforms, dragon king a fighting game stages, and the intro stage just because I was afraid people would complain that I didn't include every single stage. just be glad i didn't include each individual break the targets and board the platforms stages in the poll. Ha ha!

Check out the 19XXTE thread.
http://smashboards.com/threads/19xxte-ssb64-rom-hack.402248/

For what it's worth, I'm firmly in favor of expanding the tournament ruleset to include more stages than just DL but I really don't agree with the idea of taking stage hazards out of DL and Hyrule. They are totally RNG based to me but they're not impossible to account for and they open the possibility for cool tactics and combos. Tornado spikes anyone?

 

[clydeaker]

You should have. Now I have to choose between voting for Samus' BTP and not voting for Jigglypuff's BTP. This is an outrage.

I feel your pain.
I was afraid that I would run out of stage spots on the list. I assumed that most people would want ether all target and platform stages or none of them,

Check out the 19XXTE thread.
http://smashboards.com/threads/19xxte-ssb64-rom-hack.402248/

For what it's worth, I'm firmly in favor of expanding the tournament ruleset to include more stages than just DL but I really don't agree with the idea of taking stage hazards out of DL and Hyrule. They are totally RNG based to me but they're not impossible to account for and they open the possibility for cool tactics and combos. Tornado spikes anyone?

Thanks for sharing that thread.
I don't mind the wind on Dream Land, I was just thinking that Hyrule Castle would be more likely considered legal if tornadoes were removed. The reason I included Dream Land is because I saw that wind and tornadoes can both be removed with the same cheat code on a GameShark.

 

[Shears]

Hyrule isn't illegal because of the tornado.

 

[clydeaker]

Hyrule isn't illegal because of the tornado.

I know its mostly because of camping and being too big, but I feel like if the tornadoes were removed Tournament might have one less reason to ban it making it a counter pick, but that's highly unlikely.

 

[Shears]

Hyrule is dead and will never come back. Zombies don't exist in real life.

 

[AthensHorseParty]

Hyrule is dead and will never come back. Zombies don't exist in real life.

I actually played at like 3 tourneys here in GA where Hyrule was legal in the last few months.

 

[Combo Blaze]

locals =/= major events with legit players. These tournys could have saffron and people wouldn't care because most of them don't play the game as seriously as most of us here do.

 

[AthensHorseParty]

One of them was single elim and one of them had items on so yeah, I'm gonna agree they weren't legit. I was just ****ing with shears. We don't have legit tournaments in GA.

 

[Capos]

I know its mostly because of camping and being too big, but I feel like if the tornadoes were removed Tournament might have one less reason to ban it making it a counter pick, but that's highly unlikely.

If someone's camping the left platform and there's a stalemate, the tornado will at least force some movement and an approach. Removing them will make that worse.

 

[clydeaker]

If someone's camping the left platform and there's a stalemate, the tornado will at least force some movement and an approach. Removing them will make that worse.

good point. I didn't think of that.

 

[AthensHorseParty]

I'm pretty sure that's actually the developer intention behind a lot of the stage hazards. Arwing, pokemon elevator, pow block, acid floor, etc.

 

[clydeaker]

Here's another picture I made to go along with this thread.

I included every stage except the Beta Dragon King the Fighting Game stage 2 because it was hard to get a good photo of, all 12 Break the Target's stages and all 12 Board the Platform stages.
edit: and the flat intro Mario Vs. Kirby stage.

 

[clydeaker]

What about the movie intro stage that has kirby and mario facing off in a field? The stage aesthetics are quite nice.

Oh yeah, I remember that stage now. Thank you for letting me know. Sorry I took so long to include it.
I've added that stage to the poll along with a picture of it.