What are your favorite bad Match-Ups?

[sheggy]

I wanted to bring a little life to the Samus forums and create a bit of discussion. There are a few Matchups that are generally considered "not in Samus's favor" such as Sheik, Peach, Ganon or Falcon. Some of us may have more experience with these "bad" matchups than others and grow to favor them. I think it would be cool if we learned from others who experience these matchups and learn how others deal with it and we may find these MUs aren't as frustrating or bad as we thought.
So what are your favorite bad matchups?

 

[Mervis]

I was insanely bad at the Falcon match up for a while. I recently became good friends with 2 Falcon mains and played them very frequently. Now I feel so comfortable in the matchup. With proper movement, Samus can be just as slippery as Falcon. She can also gimp/edgeguard him very well. It's a high paced matchup that doesn't require Samus to sit in shield and UP-b.

 

[343]

Ganon is actually a winning matchup for Samus, so it's not too bad
I strangely like the Puff matchup even though it's pretty hard

on the flip side...

Sheik is super super stressful because you can't get grabbed and you can't get ac faired and blargh
Falcon is like Sheik except you don't have to be quite as scared of a grab, but you have to be pretty scared of getting juggled
Marth also does lots of juggling + corner pressure, which is pretty stressful
Peach is just annoying

 

[Corigames]

Sheik.
Perfect fall speed for extender tech chases. When I can get that off, the MU feels much better.

 

[Agni Shine]

I've played against sheik more than any other character because of my main training partner. You get used to it after awhile and I can't help but think that it is one of my stronger matchups, personally. When I win the first match of a set on netplay against a non-sheik main, and they switch to sheik for game 2 expecting it to help, I can't help but sit there and grin for I know they've already lost. (most of the time ._.)

 

[sheggy]

I've played against sheik more than any other character because of my main training partner. You get used to it after awhile and I can't help but think that it is one of my stronger matchups, personally. When I win the first match of a set on netplay against a non-sheik main, and they switch to sheik for game 2 expecting it to help, I can't help but sit there and grin for I know they've already lost. (most of the time ._.)

Then let me ask. What do you do in this MU that makes you favor it?

 

[Donnie_Cash]

Then let me ask. What do you do in this MU that makes you favor it?

This please.

 

[MudkipUniverse]

samus mains need to realize falco wrecks them

 

[Mervis]

samus mains need to realize falco wrecks them

That's adorable.

 

[343]

I definitely get wrecked by Falco, but that's more because I'm bad than because Samus loses to him

 

[MudkipUniverse]

That's adorable.

ur samus is too

 

[Mervis]

ur samus is too

My C-tier samus has nothing to do with the MU. I may be bad but I'm not blind ;3

 

[Corigames]

Falco better than Samus? Pffft, maybe when birds fly...

 

[Gnarsty]

I personally really like the Peach MU. I've been playing against a couple of Peach mains pretty consistently for a while now, and used to get bodied no matter what I tried. Lately though I've completely turned it around. I think it's because I missile camp hard to force an approach then go full aggro.

 

[MudkipUniverse]

samus prob goes like 60:40 against a good falco. has to work much harder at top level. however I can really say that about any samus MU because this character is underdeveloped.

 

[Mervis]

samus prob goes like 60:40 against a good falco. has to work much harder at top level. however I can really say that about any samus MU because this character is underdeveloped.

Wrong on both fronts laddie. Saying "A good falco" is kind of silly because you are implying that one player is better than the other. A good Samus can make the MU pretty damn close to 50:50. Also people think she's underdeveloped because no one wants to learn the matchup.

 

[Donnie_Cash]

Well I think you are half right. What constitutes a character being underdeveloped? Because until Armada, peach was underdeveloped. So does it take someone to win a national to say the character is fully developed? because if samus is making every match basically 50:50 then someone that would optimize the character would win assuming the person is good.

 

[Mervis]

Solid point but I didn't say every MU is 50:50. I just think she has good space animal MUs

 

[MudkipUniverse]

hax dashing should be used more even though it isn't 100% invincible, because it refreshes tether and isn't too hard.

bombs kinda works like a shine and so I'm wondering if you can do any fancy **** out of it. you can WD out and do aerials.

And also using the tether & airdodging upwards looks pretty cool but I'm not sure of the exact uses.

 

[Mervis]

hax dashing should be used more even though it isn't 100% invincible, because it refreshes tether and isn't too hard.

bombs kinda works like a shine and so I'm wondering if you can do any fancy **** out of it. you can WD out and do aerials.

And also using the tether & airdodging upwards looks pretty cool but I'm not sure of the exact uses.

Hello non samus player. Hax dashing with samus can be 100% invincible but the window is very tight! Samus has other ways to act off of ledge that doesn't require hax dashing.

Bombs do not work like shine. Sometimes you can clip someone with a bomb and link into a dair but it's usually an unsafe option because it puts samus in the air.

Space jumping is neat and I personally use it a lot as a mix up, but better players can react and punish accordingly. It's generally bad. Samus isn't "underdeveloped". People have and still do use the quirky things she has, but the higher level Sami do not because they are relatively bad.

 

[MudkipUniverse]

For the bombs, could you use it for shield pressure maybe?

and thanks for the info

 

[343]

bomb waveland is ok shield pressure if you are 100% sure they're scared in shield

bomb itself is a frame-10 move with almost no knockback, so it's super easy to stuff outright, or just asdi it down and get a free hit

shine is like a million times better

 

[Mervis]

For the bombs, could you use it for shield pressure maybe?

and thanks for the info

Np dude! Sorry if I came off a bid rigid. I get angsty sometimes!

 

[BillNyeTheSamusGuy]

I'm quite fond of the Puff mu. I get to use all my out oos options and dthrow->charge shot feels SO good.

Also jc grab on crouching puff is hilarious.

 

[Mervis]

Jc grab on puff gives me nightmares. I ALWAYS get rested for it I swear.

 

[BillNyeTheSamusGuy]

They're not shielding enough for you to do it then, you have to fire enough projectiles + tilt and stuff so that they think crouching/shielding is a strong option.

You want to get them to a point where they don't immediately jump after landing then BOOM grab chargeshot

 

[Mervis]

I dunno I don't really play the ground game vs puff. DFW only has 1 local puff though so my gameplan works well vs him.

 

[Litt]

I'm quite fond of the Puff mu. I get to use all my out oos options and dthrow->charge shot feels SO good.

Also jc grab on crouching puff is hilarious.

dthrow charge shot not guaranteed for kill, it is at low to mid percents I believe, but at higher you need to call out the dj for them trying to avoid the cs. I prefer to just count puffs jump and try to predict them with charge shots, safer to just hold the charge shot in neutral since puff cant go out and edgeguard you as she would like should you lose neutral, on top of missed grab = death

 

[Hulkbust3r]

Hello non samus player. Hax dashing with samus can be 100% invincible but the window is very tight! Samus has other ways to act off of ledge that doesn't require hax dashing.

Bombs do not work like shine. Sometimes you can clip someone with a bomb and link into a dair but it's usually an unsafe option because it puts samus in the air.

Space jumping is neat and I personally use it a lot as a mix up, but better players can react and punish accordingly. It's generally bad. Samus isn't "underdeveloped". People have and still do use the quirky things she has, but the higher level Sami do not because they are relatively bad.

Samus is super under-developed. No top level samus is even close to using missile pressure optimally, homing missiles especially have so much untapped potential that it almost makes me horny.

As for the topical question, I really enjoy fighting Sheik, Puff and Peach. With good spacing and proper timing it's super easy to trade or win almost every single attack-interaction with those three, which means that someone like me who has poor techskill but is good at gameplanning can still beat much better players if we bring our A-game.

 

[Archelon]

Is Marth considered a bad matchup? From my limited play with Samus (I've just switched from fox) it seems to be one of the worst.

 

[Litt]

Is Marth considered a bad matchup? From my limited play with Samus (I've just switched from fox) it seems to be one of the worst.

Puff, Sheik, Falcon, Marth is my order tbh

 

[MudkipUniverse]

Puff is ass matchup
i heard commentators calling it "a decent samus MU"
lmao
hell no

 

[Archelon]

Puff, Sheik, Falcon, Marth is my order tbh

Yeah, I've heard about Puff and can see why, but is sheik bad because she can zone you out really well?

 

[Litt]

Yeah, I've heard about Puff and can see why, but is sheik bad because she can zone you out really well?

Needles kill your bomb recovery, hit you out of grapple, and kill your missiles and chargeshots...

Grab = dthrow fair which is a reliable kill set up which samus does not have one to counter shiek

Spacing fairs against samus if done correctly you cant CC, and samus doesnt have great anti Airs

 

[Archelon]

Needles kill your bomb recovery, hit you out of grapple, and kill your missiles and chargeshots...

Grab = dthrow fair which is a reliable kill set up which samus does not have one to counter shiek

Spacing fairs against samus if done correctly you cant CC, and samus doesnt have great anti Airs

I see... .