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That pun was intended and we all know it.his only weakness is a pseudo-gimpable recovery that a "solid" snake player can still recovery from, no pun intended
It's not an easy matchup, that's for sure. Wario can dair into Snake and with some good DI skills move all the way back to his starting position. It eats Snake's shield and it's hard to approach. I still say Snake is significantly stronger in the matchup though.I've actually heard that Wario has about an even matchup with Snake. Any thoughts on this?
Although we should really be talking about this in the other thread I made, the sticky in the BTD is not intended to be there to discuss the characters. That is the whole reason why I'm moving these threads into the public areas without locking them: so people can contribute to our conversations and analysis. The hint was just a fun little distraction that has, IMO, attracted quite a bit of people to the thread that otherwise may not check it. Also, Snake is pure ownage on MK and GWwhich characters do well vs snake, and which characters have an even matchup?
if i had to guess i'd say that ddd/metaknight do well and that characters like gw, falco, and wolf do evenly? i'd like to see a snake main's opinion on character matchups.
and can i also suggest samurai that you don't put clues up anymore, that discussion page is almost entirely posts about people guessing what the next character is rather than discussing the character at hand.
~omegablackmage
Fox and Falco do alright against Snake, but snake's f-tilt becomes a kill move and the nikita can be brutal for getting tons of extra damage when they are off the stage.Although we should really be talking about this in the other thread I made, the sticky in the BTD is not intended to be there to discuss the characters. That is the whole reason why I'm moving these threads into the public areas without locking them: so people can contribute to our conversations and analysis. The hint was just a fun little distraction that has, IMO, attracted quite a bit of people to the thread that otherwise may not check it. Also, Snake is pure ownage on MK and GW
Anyways, lets try to get a list of the characters good against Snake going right now (I'd also want to do a list of characters Snake is good against, but that list would be way too long). I'm curious to see who you guys think is good against him, and we can add it to the summary later. And we should keep in mind that this list includes both very effective against Snake and only slightly effective against Snake. The list we have so far is:
- Pikachu (I agree, this matchup is horrible)
- ROB (Definitely one of the worst)
- DeDeDe (?)
- Wolf (?)
- Wario (?)
- Fox (?)
- Falco (?)
I think right now I can safely say that Pikachu and ROB are solid counterpicks against Snake. I'm really hesitant to include D3, because tournament results show Snakes beating out D3s a ton (See: Cort beating M2K's D3 above), and personally I've only ever had trouble with one D3 player, and I'm not sure I'd fall for the stuff he did again.
Do you guys have any input on the ones with question marks, or have anybody else that should be added to the list?
I agree with all of this, except I think Falco does really really well against Snake. Chaingrab is a free 30-50%, and if they do it until you're at the ledge he can easily do a dair and try to edgeguard you as you come back up. I usually switch to G&W when I play a Falco.I had ridiculously close games with M2K and we both played pretty well. If I weren't being chain grabbed I was being edge guarded, and if I weren't walking around spacing myself then I was randomly Snake sliding or praying M2K would try and dash grab. I relied on my counterpicks a lot, too. I never lost a game on Norfair vs M2K in all 3 of our sets, and the very last level we played on to determine the winner of the tournament was Hanenbow where I never approached and camped him with grenades (that was the only level where I was forced to do that, plus it was the last game so *shrug*)
I honestly don't know why anyone would think Pikachu does well vs Snake. Pika can't approach at all and thunderjolts are easily power shield/dash/repeat approached and then Pika eats ftilts. You can DI up out of Pika's dsmash, thunder is really easily predictable too. Pika is fairly light on top of it so utilt kills come fairly early.
I think Fox does exceptionally well vs Snake. Snake usually always has to the the one to approach, Fox gets easy damage off of drill -> utilts and laser camping early on, and shield drop dash usmash kills Snake at around 105-110 no matter what, which is fairly early. Falco I think doesn't do as well because he doesn't have a solid killing move that doesn't let Snake live to 200%. I have no trouble dealing with laser spammers. Against not so perfect CGers you can also mash B and pop a grenade where it'll instantly explode and only hurt Falco usually. His over b is pretty predictable, his up b is still ridiculously bad for recovering so he's fairly easily gimped... the matchup is slightly in Snake's favor still IMO. But Fox is probably even.
I've never had troubles vs Wolf's either. His blaster is easily power shielded and all of his approaches are very predictable and easily shielded as well. Wolf's recovery seems fairly horrendous too.
DDD definitely has a slight lead in the matchup, but it's very close. The chain grabs give him a free 30-40% minimum granted they know what they're doing, and edge gaurding Snake from letting him struggle out once you get him to the ledge is pretty easy (I've had hard times getting around this, usually to get around it I delay a double jump uair or nair depending where the DDD placed themself, or I double jump backwards and instantly up b to try and get out of the way). You can't even overspace ftilts as Snake to approach because it can just be shielded and a competent DDD will always shield drop dash shield cancel grab before your ftilt animation is over, it's not very hard to time.
Rob does strangely well vs Snake, but I am not entirely sure why because I generally beat PC's Rob about 60-70% of the time. He's just really hard to kill without being at 130%, nearly impossible to edge gaurd, his approaches are generally really hard to punish and he has really annoying tilts (god I hate ROB's up tilt >_>). I don't really know anything else about the matchup though.
Eating the nades actually produces a hitbox in wario's immediate vicinity. Still not all that usefull by any means, but it's something. I have gotten a few humorous kills through this though.Wario can also eat the nades, although I'm not sure that its effective or worthwhile to do so. Other than biting the cypher, I can see Wario having a ridiculously hard time KOing Snake.
It's more a problem of "who throws first". The frequency that the Wolf fires at works out just so that Snake pulls a grenade but can't throw it before the next laser hits. Thus, he drops the nade, and you end up having to reposition yourself away from the lasers and your own nades. If you can get the nades over to Wolf before he gets the first hit in, it will work out, but otherwise you'll have to work on getting inside through the lasers. I know I've used this as a pretty effective strategy on the Wolf side of things. I'm also not sure that the lasers will set the nades off, I think I recall that the nades just cancel them out without actually exploding. Might be thinking of something else though.His lasers set the nades off, so he can't laser spam, and his spacing can be a bit of a problem, but just try to out prioritize his attacks with yours when he comes in to hit you.
Dropping a nade doesn't work. It doesn't sound like you've played against a good Wario at all. I'm not saying Wario has the advantage, but it is a tough match up.wario vs snake? gimme a break, all snake has to do against dair spam is grenade and shield-drop it. wario blows up.
also, wario is biking towards you? grenade instantly blows up when it hits the bike, knocking wario off.
snake doesn't die to anything except maybe uair, which is easy enough to avoid. also, wario has nothing on all the explosive crap snake has. and when he hovers above wario, there's pretty much nothing he can do about it. i really don't see how this matchup is in wario's favor...