Weaknesses?

[Moosecalibur]

Hey all you Lucas mainers, I've been wondering this for awhile.

Now all of you lucas fans (and really any other fans too, except Jigglypuff mainers really) have been picking out all of the positive things about Lucas and how he can be used to wreck others.

But now I want to know all of your bad experiences with Lucas. What I mean is what are his weaknesses, and your personal negative experiences, to his game that if used against him, would ruin any Lucas user?

 

[Moosecalibur]

anyone.............anyone?

Buler..........................Buler?

 

[Earthbound360]

Throws arent so great.

 

[Levitas]

His grab has pretty terrible lag, his nair has somewhat low priority, his aerials aren't sufficient in terms of range to deal with sword users, his combo game is sub-par, and he's kinda light.

That should sum up most of it.

 

[Tyr_03]

Swordsmen are the worst for Lucas. A lot of his moves don't have brilliant priority so close combat can be a pain too.

 

[ForteX]

Throws arent so great.

Dunno what Lucas you're playing as, I think his throws are pretty good. The grab lag is the biggest problem. I find it to also be a highly inaccurate grab, I have used it on people right next to me to find it going past them.

He's pretty light, his attacks are mostly short ranged and there is a decent amount of lag to some of his strongest attacks (up smash, down smash especially) There is that swordsman weakness, but that's not really that much of a problem. His recovery is more reliable than Ness', but still not something you can count on. (I got sniped by a well placed arrow and lost a match because of that >___> )

Overall, even with all of these weaknesses, I find his benefits outweigh his problems.

 

[Shibby]

Grab is hit or miss, and if you miss ... you pay ...

 

[Aevin]

Sword users? I seem to do really well against sword users with Lucas, and I play a very skilled Ike regularly. The grabs are pretty awful. Has anyone else noticed that his pivot grab is MUCH faster? It's like his normal grab, minus all the lag.

I seem to have trouble with people who have great projectiles. I have trouble approaching Toon Link, and Dedede's Waddle-Dees pretty much thwart me. Lucas's projectiles are really good, but if someone can stop a PK Thunder by shooting it with an arrow or other projectile, it doesn't mean much. People will shoot directly at my projectiles to cancel them, or if I'm ledge-guarding, they'll hit me with one and cancel my thunder. Good, speedy, non-absorbable projectiles can effectively null PK Fire use and a degree of PK Thunder use. Without them, and given the relatively short range of his aerials and slow speed of his smashes, it can be quite difficult to approach such opponents.

 

[TechnoMonster]

Lucas gets messed up when he misses people, doesn't approach properly, etc

Also gets owned by physical projectiles.

 

[Nickman2k9]

one guy man... Donkey Kong, thats the one guy who gives me trouble when im Lucas, and I meant a player using him not the ****ty computer. I can **** everyone else up but DK always has the last laugh

 

[Aevin]

I find DK tough, too. But if you use Lucas's fastest attacks, DK's just a shade too slow. Careful with projectiles, and side dodge instead of challenging his attacks. Then, I just rely heavily on quick aerials (the neutral works especially well). Quick tilt attacks also work well. Just try to keep poking at him so he doesn't get the time he needs to land his attacks. Not to say DK's especially slow, but he should be just slow enough.

I don't know if that'll help, but I thought I'd throw in my two cents, since I fight him pretty often.

 

[SilverChaos]

It's the priority that kills me.
With both ness and lucas, the high priority charcters gove me trouble.

 

[JoeTang]

Poor knock back (namely Aerials). Poor priority (namely Aerials again). Poor range (everything, really). Lag (Up, Down Smashes, his best source of close combat range).

 

[Broly]

approach to some chars like metaknight, diddy, his grab is a pain to get them with. but i dont know, i truly feel hes in the top 3 of brawl mainly for his great spacing and his match-ups to other characters.

 

[Trozz]

People fast enough to punish Lucas's lag.

Game and Watch is also serious business due to teh bukket.

 

[Levitas]

lol, if the G + W starts bucketing, just keep firing anyway. All you have to do is dodge the bucket, and if you're firing, you'll be out of range most of the time. That, and a game and watch will generally think "Oh, I've absorbed a PK Fire, so now that we both know that I've beaten that strategy, he'll have to move on to something else". WRONG!

 

[Trozz]

A PKT can instantly fill a bucket. A bucket of PKT tail isn't going to be that big of a deal if it hits. A bucket of PKT is terror. Fortunately, Lucas's basic attacks are more than good enough to bring G&W copious amounts of hurt.

I advise against using d-air. G&W's u-air and your d-air have a bizarre effect, in that Lucas is shot straight up.

 

[Earthbound360]

Dunno what Lucas you're playing as, I think his throws are pretty good. The grab lag is the biggest problem. I find it to also be a highly inaccurate grab, I have used it on people right next to me to find it going past them.

Dthrow doesnt combo at high percentages and is pretty much a uthrow. Seriously, after a ceratain percent, dthrow kills off the top of th screen even before his uthrow.

WIthout a dthrow, I feel crippled. Its my favorite throw since it combos for many characters.

Also, none of his throws really kill either. His best is his dthrow I believe. And with poor kill and combo throws (they're really only in the dthrow) I dunno what to do.

 

[Trozz]

Lucas's d-throw does not KO. His u-throw doesn't one-shot KO until the enemy is critically wounded (around 150%).

I prefer using f-throw/b-throw to direct the enemy off the edge (so he can eat some PKT or b-air).

 

[Snake King 1]

i'd say olimar is a counter to lucas and ness
1. any pikmin latched can stop a pkt, yellows will just own
2. whole dtilt thing where you go through the pk fire

other than that, i don't know any weaknesses

 

[ForteX]

Dthrow doesnt combo at high percentages and is pretty much a uthrow. Seriously, after a ceratain percent, dthrow kills off the top of th screen even before his uthrow.

WIthout a dthrow, I feel crippled. Its my favorite throw since it combos for many characters.

Also, none of his throws really kill either. His best is his dthrow I believe. And with poor kill and combo throws (they're really only in the dthrow) I dunno what to do.

I find Lucas' f-throw and b-throw his best, I've been able to kill off the edge with those at 60-70% As for his d-throw not KOing, I've done it before, though it's easier to KO with PK Freeze.

 

[Levitas]

Lucas's Dthrow kills a ROB undecayed at 170%, maybe earlier. It's his best kill throw assuming that your opponents DI well. Also, PK Freeze shouldn't be your KO move.

 

[TechnoMonster]

For throws, B-Throw near an edge will kill before d-throw, which kills at 150% against most characters with DI.

Lucas' Grab Game:
0-10% Dthrow to combo
10-25% Dthrow to attempted combo
25%-130% get your hits in and throw them off the stage
130% get your hits in and go for a dthrow or bthrow KO.

all there is to it.

 

[Ryddle]

Lucas has a lot of issues. His aerials lack range and priority, which coupled with his unreliable 3rd jump make him an easy target on the air. On the ground, his D and U-Smash have too much lag, and the D-SMash hits only the front. His grabs stink too. He is a very odd character, probably good, but too easily countered once the opponent figures how outsmart your spacing.

 

[TechnoMonster]

Lucas has a lot of issues. His aerials lack range and priority, which coupled with his unreliable 3rd jump make him an easy target on the air. On the ground, his D and U-Smash have too much lag, and the D-Smash hits only the front. His grabs stink too. He is a very odd character, probably good, but too easily countered once the opponent figures how outsmart your spacing.

All of this is false (in my experience). His aerials have good range, duration, and priority, and are fast, but aren't as broad as a sword user's hitbox so you have to aim and time them correctly, and aren't generally spammable.

Dsmash hits slightly behind you as well and is good for stopping someone who is likely to dodge or roll. Usmash is laggy but is often a good gamble if you are at a low-medium percent and they are at medium high, and will kill most characters at 60-70.

His grabs are some of the most effective in the game at low %, and are still very useful at every percent to knock people off the side.

 

[Aevin]

His forward and back throw are heavily, heavily affected by DI. They can kill at fairly low percentages if the opponent DI's with, but not even at high percentages if the DI against. Seems to me like part of the game is trying to trick them with which of the two you're going to use. When they're expecting a forward throw, try a back throw--although the back throw does have better knockback even with DI factored in.

The down throw sends opponents further up than the up throw, but the up throw damages more.

 

[Earthbound360]

^^^
Thats what I hate. His dthrow isnt a real dthrow
But if you DO wanna trick them with the back vs. forward throw thing, you will probably throw them away from the blastzone. Lemme elaborate.

You grab a guy with your back to the edge at about 90% on the left side of FD. A bthrow wont kill him here, since he is expecting this, but if he DIed with it, it might. So you try an fthrow knowing he will DI in that direction, but now you are throwing him across FD towards the right blastzone. THis probably wont kill him either

 

[krlos F.]

YEAH! if u miss a grab! U PAY! believe us! too much lag after a grab missed

 

[Hardcorenesser]

YEAH! if u miss a grab! U PAY! believe us! too much lag after a grab missed

uhhh... us? but yeah you are right. i mainly grab when i have a big openning, though i should probably use something that has better ko potential. my usual opponent is a yoshi. you may laugh at me for playing against a yoshi when "he clearly sucks", but the yoshi i play against is a BA. he's my bro, so he usually knows what is coming, but whenever he tries to sheild grab me after my fsmash i can always spotdodge then grab him or smack him with the stick. that is pretty much the only time i would use a grab though... and that spotdodge is crucial, cuz my bro figured out yoshi can chain. if he gets you in his mouth he just chews you until you get out. then when you get out there isnt anything you can do until you land on the ground again a little ways ahead of where you got out. all he has to do is run forward and then grab you and chew you some more. it really pisses me off cuz it means half my game is recovery... he relies on it a bit too much though, and he uses running grabs (not pivot grabs - yoshi's hella ****ty one) way too much. i use spotdodge -> usmash and man does it piss him off ... i don't know how many of you this information is useful to, considering not too many people are fond of yoshi, but i just thought i'd throw that out there... but back on topic, Lucas's grab is a major downfall. i would rather use fsmash every time. *sigh* if only Lucas had a zair...

 

[Doval]

I advise against using d-air. G&W's u-air and your d-air have a bizarre effect, in that Lucas is shot straight up.

G&W's up-air does that. It's not some glitch that happens when you use Lucas's d-air against his up-air.

 

[Earthbound360]

It just has a wind effect. Just like Toon Links dair, Kirby's stone, and Ness' PSI magnet.