WaveDashing In SSBB

[bowz10190]

In the newer of the two brawl trailers, soon after metaknight comes out, the part when kirby comes down over his head it looks like metaknight wavedashes behind kirby and stabs him. This could have just been a backwards dodge but in my opinion it looked like a wavedash.

i think they will include wavedashing even if im wrong about this

yea i saw that too. I think that they will keep wavedash in. The game developers have to know that the serious game players like the wavedash. So if they take it out, they know we will be pissed. I think they will keep it in, but like before not mention it and let the people figure it out.

 

[HideousBeing]

yea i saw that too. I think that they will keep wavedash in. The game developers have to know that the serious game players like the wavedash. So if they take it out, they know we will be pissed. I think they will keep it in, but like before not mention it and let the people figure it out.

It's so not like Nintendo though, to show an advanced tactic like that in a video. They don't tend to advertise things like that. I dunno... If that' s not a WD though, I have to wonder what is it.

On the side, imagine of WDing was included in Brawl, and the CPUs did it to. That would be so sic! Not only would it teach n00bs the availability of the move and its purpose (or at least one or two), but it would just be fun to have a more advanced AI on the CPUs.

Also a question: Do CPUs on Melee use L-Cancelling?

 

[Red Exodus]

I am for allowing players to **** the in-game physics. And by "****" I mean "take advantage of." Pretty much slipping the code a roofie.

Where have you been all this time? The Brawl character stickies have been thrown into monotony

Right. Bug would be more near the mark. A bug is, to my understanding, an unintended phenomenon or occurrence possible in a game. The infinite superscope ammo glitch, for example, is missnamed. This is not a glitch, but a bug. Bugs work every time. Glitches don't work every time, or rather, don't not work every time. I like to think of it this way: Bugs are software screw-ups. Glitches are hardware screw-ups.

I doubt it's a screw up, I already made a post about it a the other day, I don't intend to type it out so I'll just copy and paste it.

I don't feel like searching for it now so I'll summarize it.

Instead of WDing being a bug or a glitch, it's most likely supposed to be a patch for a glitch[es]. I imagine that removing the collison [while dodging, to be more specific] with the ground at an angle would cause you to:

A) Get stuck in the stage
B) Go through the stage
C) Lag a lot

I don't know about you, but I'd rather slide along the ground than fall through the stage.

Check it. A real solution.

But alas, it has to go. It is, after all, a glitch.

As for the wavedash, the best solution would be to include some form of advanced tech, but give an intended animation. Just like the Tech-roll ( a technique unmentioned in any published guide), the brawl-WD will be intended, but kept unveiled.

I need to brawl to be fast, but at the same time, even at a tournament level, no glitch should abuse the intended beauty of the game.

It already has an animation. Making it look flashy will defeat the purpose [probably make it slower].

And like i said before, it's not a glitch, it's a patch.

 

[Ipslne]

Sorry about going AWOL on everyone. I got sort of fed-up with the lack of new information and the plethora of new unbacked and ludicrous theories.

I suppose I should check back here more often though. Keep those like TwoK at bay.

 

[Shai Hulud]

Wavedashing is not a bug and it's not a glitch. It's a consequence of the physics engine. Its current use was unforeseen, making it an EXPLOIT. The black hole is a glitch. The Ice Climbers freeze grab is a glitch. Falling through Corneria in the middle of a match is a glitch. The ledges on DK64 and Battlefield are glitchy. Marth's attacks randomly failing due to wind on DL64 is a glitch.

Wavedashing is not.

 

[eep the defiler]

what i don't get is why everyone complains that wavedashing is a "glitch" or a "mistake" by the makers, yet L-canceling is perfectly accepted when its basically wavedashing straight down rather than on a angle

 

[Shai Hulud]

That's not what L-cancelling is.

 

[HideousBeing]

what i don't get is why everyone complains that wavedashing is a "glitch" or a "mistake" by the makers, yet L-canceling is perfectly accepted when its basically wavedashing straight down rather than on a angle

You're a little confused, bud. Read the guide to terms thread.

 

[eep the defiler]

That's not what L-cancelling is.

i know, i guess i should have worded that better. they're kinda similar though (special landing type things)

 

[bizybozo]

LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO.

Okay, so when I first read this post, I thought it was the dumbest shiit i'd ever heard.

Wavedashing is not a bug and it's not a glitch. It's a consequence of the physics engine. Its current use was unforeseen, making it an EXPLOIT. The black hole is a glitch. The Ice Climbers freeze grab is a glitch. Falling through Corneria in the middle of a match is a glitch. The ledges on DK64 and Battlefield are glitchy. Marth's attacks randomly failing due to wind on DL64 is a glitch.

Wavedashing is not.

Specifically then bold part. lmao.

then I read the next post. LMAO

what i don't get is why everyone complains that wavedashing is a "glitch" or a "mistake" by the makers, yet L-canceling is perfectly accepted when its basically wavedashing straight down rather than on a angle

what kind of dumba$$ joins a debate when he has no idea what he's talking about, AHHHHHH LMAO LMAO LMAO. why are people so fvcking stupid, at least it's entertaining.

*unsubscribes from the thread of bantering idiots. lol

 

[eep the defiler]

*eep commits hara-kiri* *eep dies* *much rejoicing*

 

[gkrackerr]

hmm, this thread has degenerated down to useless rant between people who don't understand wavedashing, why it happens, and think it's a glitch, and people who understand it and seem to have an unparallel amount of patience to take time to explain what it is.

so i think to make it easier, and follow what the thread originally intended, i say we just say yes to wavedashing in brawl, or no (no comments on it being a glithc or not, just yes, or no)

 

[Shai Hulud]

LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO.

Okay, so when I first read this post, I thought it was the dumbest shiit i'd ever heard.

You clearly don't understand what a "glitch" is. The fact that you would be so arrogant about your ignorance means not only do you fail in this discussion, but you also fail at life.

Congratu****inlations.

 

[Johnknight1]

hmm, this thread has degenerated down to useless rant between people who don't understand wavedashing, why it happens, and think it's a glitch, and people who understand it and seem to have an unparallel amount of patience to take time to explain what it is.

Noobs (who don't WD) vs. WD users vs. random people who don't use it, but are still good (a few I guess).

 

[Red Exodus]

Bizy just saved himself from looking even more ******** than he already is. Smart move.

 

[tricky989]

I've briefly skimmed almost every page so hopefully I didnt miss anything(you can delete this if I did and bring up a repeated argument). Anyways, here's my two cents:

I was thinking about how wavedashing was unintentionally placed in the game, and it made me wonder: If they actually intentionally tried to put it in the game, would it mess it up? By mess it up I mean would it either make it better to the point where its unbelievably cheap and luigi is god or would it just get worse, to the point where its useless. It also occurred to me that if they keep it, they might make rolling, dodging, shielding etc. better or more versatile to discourage the use of it so they could gradually phase it out, sans complaints from professional-level players.

The other thing I was wondering is why, if it was unintentional, did it work out that each characters wave dash is a different length? Maybe this is a dumb argument and its based on another one of the characters animations, but isnt that just a little bit odd? I mean if it was an accident wouldn't they all be about the same length, or am I just on crack right now?

As for L-canceling, despite the fact that physically it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, I think a technique like that(similar to z-canceling after an aerial attack in SSB64) adds a certain element of skill to the game. Sure its not incredibly difficult if your thinking about it, but it takes repeated and relentless practice to get it to the point where you do it subconciously.

Anyways, thats my two cents. I may be completely off my rocker about these two moves, so in the case that I am feel free to flame me, criticism, whether it be positive or negative, in the end makes arguments much stronger. Cheers!

 

[bizybozo]

I just, don't have the patience to argue with idiots.

"It's not a glitch, its simply a consequence of the physics engine."

The kid who said that is just, so, blind? dumb? unaware? naive?
Just read that sentence and tell me you can't see the irony/idiocy there. Wow.

Like, d@mn, thats just plain stupid.

 

[Banks]

bizy you obviously don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I just, don't have the patience to argue with idiots.

"It's not a glitch, its simply a consequence of the physics engine."

The kid who said that is just, so, blind? dumb? unaware? naive?
Just read that sentence and tell me you can't see the irony/idiocy there. Wow.

Like, d@mn, thats just plain stupid.

...redundant, much?

Get over yourself, man. Jesus.

 

[Rakuen]

"It's not a glitch, its simply a consequence of the physics engine."

I get it. "Consequence of the physics engine" is a euphemism for glitch.
Am I right? Well? Am I right? Where's my cookie?
By the way, NO ONE CARES!

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I get it. "Consequence of the physics engine" is a euphemism for glitch.
Am I right? Well? Am I right? Where's my cookie?
By the way, NO ONE CARES!

Lol, man. Just...lol.

 

[bizybozo]

I love this thread.

I'm gonna call banks out on sarcasm. I remember his argument with masahiro once - that was some funny ****.

 

[Tank McCannon]

I just, don't have the patience to argue with idiots.

"It's not a glitch, its simply a consequence of the physics engine."

The kid who said that is just, so, blind? dumb? unaware? naive?
Just read that sentence and tell me you can't see the irony/idiocy there. Wow.

Like, d@mn, thats just plain stupid.

I'm not taking sides here or anything, I just have a question.

Let's look at Super Mario 64. You can use the backwards stair jumping trick to get through doors. Now you can't really explain why you go through the door, you just do. (If you don't know what I'm talking about, just watch any speed run on YouTube or something)

Now we have something like wavedashing. While it wasn't intended, we can explain why it happens.

Like I said, I'm not taking sides, and I really don't care if it's in Brawl or not, I'm just wondering if you'd call these two these two things glitches, or if there should be a different name for what wavedashing is.

 

[Paranoid_Android]

**** semantics...


Wavedashing is an exploitation of the physics engine. You are meant to slide across he ground if you hit the ground while air dodging. It's not a glitch because this is how the physics engine was purposefully set up so that you wouldn't glitch into the ground and get stuck, or something like that. It's an exploit in that people are using a purposeful element of the game to do something completely unrelated that the developers overlooked. Not everything unintentional can be considered a glitch.

 

[trademark0013]

I can't even think of how crappy/boring fights were before I learned how to wavedash, L cancel, waveshine, ect.

u dont l cancel wavedashes.... u and ur silly combos ^_^ lol. jp

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

I just, don't have the patience to argue with idiots.

"It's not a glitch, its simply a consequence of the physics engine."

The kid who said that is just, so, blind? dumb? unaware? naive?
Just read that sentence and tell me you can't see the irony/idiocy there. Wow.

Like, d@mn, thats just plain stupid.

LAMO, liek, D@mn son, omg! u r so, stupid, ignorant, dimwitted, fallable, wrong, ********, lame, *insert synonym here*

Please get horribly mauled by a bear.

Oh, and in all seriousness, if you think wavedashing ISN'T a consequence of the physics engine, and is a glitch, you're ****ed in the head.

Hell I don't even need to look at your opinions to figure out you're ****ed in the head, just look at the way you phrase yourself, it's like you farted, sneezed, and threw up all at the same time while writing that.

You know nothing substantial

 

[HideousBeing]

Gah. I can't find where someone said something about MLG having banned Melee. Is this true? Is Melee no longer included in major league gaming? Would this explain why these tiers: http://www.mlgpro.com/?q=node/44016 , are different than the ones listed on this site?

 

[ToyzSoldier]

By Dylan Tnga
Oh, and in all seriousness, if you think wavedashing ISN'T a consequence of the physics engine, and is a glitch, you're ****ed in the head.

That is quite an ignorant statement. When you first see wavedashing, its easy to think its a glitch. I have noob friends all the time whenever they see me wavedash w/ Luigi, they autimatically think its a glitch. They don't realise I have to press jump and immediately airdodge, to result in wavedashing. The button sequence is just so fast, that it looks like one continuous move. They actually think I have to telekinetically manipulate the game to do that. Its not until I explain how its done, and how its just a result of the physics engine do they realise its merely an exploit. Or they make me shut up and just start the game already. Also a glitch in a game is more common than an exploit of the physics engine. Its an easy mistake. I even call it a glitch sometimes.

 

[BDawgPHD]

It's not a big deal to call it a glitch randomly, most people do so, and then think about it and say "no, that's not a glitch." I myself kinda call it a glitch because in Halo 2 I call BxR and BxB "button glitches", but I knew wavedashing was somewhat in the same category, and I always pick on my friends for relying on such techs to win, while they overlook what's important.

EDIT: I'm gonna be known as the Halo junkie here at smashboards Well, MLG.com refers to Halo to explain Melee sometimes (as shown in the above link) so I feel less like a goof now

 

[mr_joey132]

The main reason most people who WD want to see it kept is this: Things like Wavedashing and Lcanceling, along with any other advanced technique, separates the dedicated from the ignorant. Many players won't take the game as seriously, so they do not use the technique, but are angry that it helps those who are dedicated to beating them. The people that use it feel they have earned their right to having an advantage, because they have worked hard for their skills. If they game were simple, torney play would fizzle. And so those who use it love it, and those who don't hate it.

QFT ^^
Ignore my useless post, just wanted to show how much I agree with that, lol.

 

[Zarasai]

I can do wavedashing and l-cancelling and so on, but i still think it should be removed.

i'd rather see a game based on skill of playing the Intended abilities of the game, not the accidental results of the physics. in other words id rather everybody is on the same ground, that they must rely solely on skill and knowledge of their characters, rather than advance techniques that were not inteded in the first place. It's not a technique issue, its a balance issue IMO

 

[Smady]

Remove them, new ones will surely be in there somewhere.

 

[BDawgPHD]

I can do wavedashing and l-cancelling and so on, but i still think it should be removed.

i'd rather see a game based on skill of playing the Intended abilities of the game, not the accidental results of the physics. in other words id rather everybody is on the same ground, that they must rely solely on skill and knowledge of their characters, rather than advance techniques that were not inteded in the first place. It's not a technique issue, its a balance issue IMO

The problem with that is there's two ways to look at it

-Anyone can wavedash, so it IS an even playing field

OR

-No one can ever be on an even playing field because some people are simply better than others.

It's not that wavedashing is an instant win, but knowing how to use it effectively gives you a huge edge over someone of equal skill who doesn't use wavedashing, and a wavedasher still heavily needs skill and knowledge of their characters, no less so because of wavedashing. Although as I said before, I do like the idea of lessening the effectiveness of wavedashing, to give strength back to characters who don't benefit from it like the higher-tiered characters do.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

That is quite an ignorant statement. When you first see wavedashing, its easy to think its a glitch. I have noob friends all the time whenever they see me wavedash w/ Luigi, they autimatically think its a glitch. They don't realise I have to press jump and immediately airdodge, to result in wavedashing. The button sequence is just so fast, that it looks like one continuous move. They actually think I have to telekinetically manipulate the game to do that. Its not until I explain how its done, and how its just a result of the physics engine do they realise its merely an exploit. Or they make me shut up and just start the game already. Also a glitch in a game is more common than an exploit of the physics engine. Its an easy mistake. I even call it a glitch sometimes.

Ya I didnt mean to genaralize I can see why people would think its a glitch. When I said ''you'' I mean specifically him because he was calling us all morons, yet preaching WDing was a glitch when it clearly isnt.

 

[P.Vanity]

Wavedashin will probz either be kept in or made easier, like pit's dodge in the Trailer.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

i'd rather see a game based on skill of playing the Intended abilities of the game, not the accidental results of the physics. in other words id rather everybody is on the same ground, that they must rely solely on skill and knowledge of their characters, rather than advance techniques that were not inteded in the first place. It's not a technique issue, its a balance issue IMO

I'M GETTING VERY SICK OF THIS ARGUMENT. It was not intended initially, but it WAS left in intentionally. It WAS discovered, but they didn't "fix" it. You know how we know? Go buy AR. Go into the debug menu. Wavedash. It has a name. Haven't done it in a while, but its something like landfallslide, or something.

This is almost as rediculous as people who say snaking is cheap in mario kart. Well then, why do the staff ghosts in TT in MK:DD snake? Because they WANT you to figure it out and use it.

So please don't give us the "It was unintentional, so they shuld get rid of it" crap. If you have an ACTUAL reason, please give it and I'll think it over and respond with out the cynical remarks.

 

[Inevitable]

I think they should leave wavedashing and all the other advanced techniques that are used in Melee for Brawl and add a ton of other new advanced techniques for Brawl!

That way the game will be even more fun and expand.

 

[thesage]

I think people don't realize that lower-tiered characters benefit much more from wavedashing than higher tiered characters...

BTW: L-canceling was put in the game by the developers. It was a glitch/bug/ whatever in super smash brothers. you want to call it involving putting up your shield just as you were landing. It canceled ALL landing lag in that game. I'm sure that WD will be in brawl, just changed or something (It's not a GODLY move, it just makes characters unpredictable and helps to create mindgames or speed characters up (Luigi, Peach). I don't even know why I'm here, so much noobness, brain hurts.

 

[Shai Hulud]

I get it. "Consequence of the physics engine" is a euphemism for glitch.
Am I right? Well? Am I right? Where's my cookie?
By the way, NO ONE CARES!

Actually a glitch is due to programming error, but nice try.

 

[pikachun00b7]

I can do wavedashing and l-cancelling and so on, but i still think it should be removed.

i'd rather see a game based on skill of playing the Intended abilities of the game, not the accidental results of the physics. in other words id rather everybody is on the same ground, that they must rely solely on skill and knowledge of their characters, rather than advance techniques that were not inteded in the first place. It's not a technique issue, its a balance issue IMO[/QUAKE]
Wow! You have an incredible knowledge of the smash Metagame.

Anyway, WD in brawl is fine as long as only pikachu can do it.