Water = unfair?

[Zjiin]

Everyone pretty much knows by now, that when you fall into water, you drown for a short time and then get your jump back and can leave. And the higher precent you are at, the longer you "drown" before you can do anything. But if you keep hitting people down into the water, they get pushed under, you get out of your "drowning" state faster than they do, and you can trap them there.

Shown in the first stock of this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoEYcyBlbtE

I love the swimming feature, and think it's a lot of fun, but if this is what is to become of competitive-style water games, i think it's a bit too powerful.

Thoughts?

 

[joenopride]

Don't go into water? I think if your opponent can trap you into that, they deserve the kill. Water may not event be seen on neutral stages, so you wouldn't need to worry about it that often anyways.

 

[Zjiin]

Don't go into water? I think if your opponent can trap you into that, they deserve the kill. Water may not event be seen on neutral stages, so you wouldn't need to worry about it that often anyways.

Sometimes going into water is unavoidable. And we're nto talking about neutrals, so i dont know where you got that from. Wanna be counterpicked to like Great Sea where they do that to you?

Cheap tactics will always develop, and eventually people will get better at finding ways of getting people into the right situations.

 

[joenopride]

Point taken. From the video you provided though, it looks like there were opportunities to get out of the water. I'm going to wait until I can play the game to pass judgment of course, but looking at it right now I think that isn't going to be a huge problem.

 

[tanfastic]

Water is a cheap kill for most players (ones with good meteor smashes) so use mid air dodge? idk if it works in water...

 

[Naybewon]

Everyone pretty much knows by now, that when you fall into water, you drown for a short time and then get your jump back and can leave. And the higher precent you are at, the longer you "drown" before you can do anything. But if you keep hitting people down into the water, they get pushed under, you get out of your "drowning" state faster than they do, and you can trap them there.

Shown in the first stock of this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoEYcyBlbtE

I love the swimming feature, and think it's a lot of fun, but if this is what is to become of competitive-style water games, i think it's a bit too powerful.

Thoughts?

Water is COMPLETELY unfair for certain characters. Take Zelda for instance. When she falls into water on a stage like Tetra's Ship, she CAN NOT get out unless another character "helps" by hitting her in a way that will send her up. Her jump animation is too slow for her to get out on her own :<

If not for a poor feature like that, I wouldn't mind the water.

 

[Meteor!]

The water is especially unfair on Jungle Japes, it can carry some characters far enough so they can't recover when they jump out.

 

[Tinkerer]

You can still move in the water, you know. That Samus only moved straight up - plus, you can use up-B to counter.

 

[Mic_128]

While I can't comment on water in toon Link's stage, the water in the others isn't too bad, and regardless, it's still better than just falling to your death.

 

[Turbo Ether]

The "drowning" animation = death on Jungle Japes.

 

[Seiko Shashude]

Yeah that samus was pretty stupid for not moving to the side...=O, I mean common now they just went right into Falcons next move....

 

[G-X]

Lol. Final Destination is unfair too! Characters with spikes have the advantage!!1


Some characters have advantages on some stages. Deal.

 

[The_Trap]

moar like pikachu has the advantage in the water

 

[Zjiin]

We tested this out yesterday as best we could, and yes, you can get trapped permanently under the water but it is VERY situational. They have to be at a decently high percent AND you have to call their movement left or right (which is very hard in already moving water aka Great Sea).

Great way to beat on scrubs, but any smart player will most likely not get caught in the act.

 

[Riakou]

I think water is fun

lol

 

[Will19]

Well, at Toon Links Stage i spiked my friend through the water and KO'd him. He was damaged around 50%. So I guess it depends on what stage the water is on.

 

[zeldamaster2006]

From the video it seems about the same as spiking off the stage, nothing wrong with it.

 

[fanagal596]

this dosen't matter as there is no water on final destination

 

[Tino's White Horse]

No, the water is NOT unfair.

They try to swim out, YOU JAM A KEY IN THEIR HEAD AND PUSH THEM BACK INTO THE WATER.

 

[supersonicdjs]

Too bad you can't use it in the Stage Builder.

I heard you can't use Water In the Stage Builder.

 

[Johnknight1]

this dosen't matter as there is no water on final destination

But Final Destination is pretty lame in smash, especially Melee. In Brawl, the only thing exciting is the music, and that KO trickster area below theedge.

Seriously, F*** FINAL DESTINATION! It's overrated as f***! It's not even a balanced stage (in Melee), it's just a spammer hell hold. Let's play Yoshi's Island (a much more balanced stage) instead. Final Destination gets boring after the 3rd to 5th match, anyways. Most overrated stage, ever! Seriously though, Final Destination IS a neutral stage, but it's not very fair. Final Destination favors light characters with good recovery, and that can spam. The only thing helping heavier characters is that it is smaller in Brawl, and those kill areas right under the stage.

And c'mon, unless you are in like the mid-low to mid 100 percentiles on up, you are not gonna die. Some light characters drown easier, but you know what? That is why they have the amazing recovery. THAT is balancing the gameplay for heavy characters, since they are usually at a disadvantage. This is very unlike perfectly flat stages that are laser spamming hell holds for birds in Melee. >_>

O, and I don't hate Final Destination, I like it. But it's totally overrated. If you want a much more balanced, better, and overall superior stage, play Dreamland 64. >_>

 

[Tino's White Horse]

But Final Destination is pretty lame in smash, especially Melee. In Brawl, the only thing exciting is the music, and that KO trickster area below theedge.

Seriously, F*** FINAL DESTINATION! It's overrated as f***! It's not even a balanced stage (in Melee), it's just a spammer hell hold. Let's play Yoshi's Island (a much more balanced stage) instead. Final Destination gets boring after the 3rd to 5th match, anyways. Most overrated stage, ever! Seriously though, Final Destination IS a neutral stage, but it's not very fair. Final Destination favors light characters with good recovery, and that can spam. The only thing helping heavier characters is that it is smaller in Brawl, and those kill areas right under the stage.

And c'mon, unless you are in like the mid-low to mid 100 percentiles on up, you are not gonna die. Some light characters drown easier, but you know what? That is why they have the amazing recovery. THAT is balancing the gameplay for heavy characters, since they are usually at a disadvantage. This is very unlike perfectly flat stages that are laser spamming hell holds for birds in Melee. >_>

O, and I don't hate Final Destination, I like it. But it's totally overrated. If you want a much more balanced, better, and overall superior stage, play Dreamland 64. >_>

This person speaks the truth.

 

[supersonicdjs]

Seriously, F*** FINAL DESTINATION! O, and I don't hate Final Destination, I like it.

I chuckled.

 

[C Dawg009]

^^ I was about to quote his post in the same way you just did lulz. XD

Either way, this thread is about water, not about Final Destination. >_> You kinda went off on a tangent there.

 

[ronin_galiver]

Water=Clean, Clean=Good, Thusly Water=Good.

 

[sakuraZaKi]

//EDIT:

Dammit, I was beaten

 

[Grining_Ghoul]

I thought I heard somewhere that if you were "drowning" in the water long enough you'd get pulled under, was I mislead or does this still happen?

Btw, nice sig Karasu!

:3

 

[Psymon]

This will be debatable for as long as people play the game competatively, some will like it, some won't. Only advice to those who won't/don't - use your weakness. Take what elements that being in water annoy you and use them on your opponent. If they're in there, you can stay out. If you're both in, try to get out first. If not, get them next stock. Psy.

 

[KazuTheNut]

I seriously doubt there will be many stages with water overall and in tournaments. Besides, water gives you a chance to recover, you should be thankful. If your charracter can't swim, to bad. You might have a good 3rd jump, but bad swimming abilities. So, water -sort of- balances the characters out.

 

[ronin_galiver]

This forum is really slow on a Sunday. It makes me sad.

 

[Fakename]

I wonder how Sonic will handle water... I bet he'll sink like a rock.

 

[shadydentist]

The old water in Jungle Japes is a million times more unfair than any water in brawl. I don't think the water is enough to qualify for a ban.

 

[S2]

Its a new element, people are going to have to learn how to play with it.

Water isn't going to get a stage banned, but we'll have to see if any water stage qualifies as a neutral. Some players are going to like water, other aren't. But not liking something doesn't make it "unfair".

 

[Tino's White Horse]

I thought I heard somewhere that if you were "drowning" in the water long enough you'd get pulled under, was I mislead or does this still happen?

Uh, yeah...

That’s kind of what HAPPENS when you don’t swim...

 

[ronin_galiver]

Rofl my waffle, yo. When you drown, you drown.

 

[SBJtagteam]

well the water is there instead of nothing... so it actually helps if u fall in it... u should have died in the first place... just dont fall in it... that simple... avoid it...

 

[pyro363]

The new havoc engine for brawl its amazing. Not only can you swim you can now interact with objects

 

[JT_productions829]

im still kindy edgey on the swimming thing. When i played, it really helped if you get knocked out. The toon link stage (i forgot the name) has a lot of water at the beginning and can really save you. But on the side, it kinda gets annoying if you hit someone off the boat and then they swim back.

 

[Zjiin]

People are completely going off topic. Despite what the title says, this is not a general "is water unfair?" This was a specific thread to target the strategy shown in the OP. We have tested and stated that it just isn't that easy to perform, so the topic should have ended.

Thread closed.

 

[RickettsZ22]

its a good little tatic, winning is winning, and if samus didn't fall into the water she woudln't have gotten trapped swim around and don't let falcon spike the **** out of you