Q&A Wario Q&A and Help Thread - What's Wario Land

[Xeze]

Question: is Inhaling Chomp worth over the regular chomp?

 

[Spinosaurus]

Question: is Inhaling Chomp worth over the regular chomp?

No imo. It has its uses but you'd be sacrificing the sheer utility of the regular chomp. Not worth it at all to me.

 

[Sari]

What do you guys think of Wario's MU against Dr. Mario? Do you think it's better or worse than his MU against the regular Mario?

 

[Rakurai]

Better.

Doc has more lag on his moves and is thus easier to punish. He's also a heck of a lot easier to gimp due to the reduced height on his up B.

 

[Dark Phazon]

How the hell do you use this character...
His down smash is so bad..
His FSmash has extreme cool down and is not that strong compared to other heavies..
His upsmash is good though...
Help plz...combos etc..?

 

[Spinosaurus]

How the hell do you use this character...
His down smash is so bad..
His FSmash has extreme cool down and is not that strong compared to other heavies..
His upsmash is good though...
Help plz...combos etc..?

Moved your post to the Q&A thread since it isn't relevant to the recent patch

Anywho DSmash is situational but it's good. The lingering hitbox makes it pretty good at for ledgeguarding and covering get up options, making it another option for Wario to use in those situations. It's also his fastest and strongest punish on the ground (frame 8, as fast as his jab lol). It lowers his hitbox on top of all that, so it's not bad just because it leaves you open. If anything, one of his most underrated moves imo.

FSmash is alright. Frame 16 so it's a bit slow, but considering how strong it is (especially with rage) it's a pretty nifty move in the right situations.

Wario doesn't have any bread and butter combos but Dtilt, NAir and UAir have followups you should take note of. (Check the links, all by Reflex) Another thing you should know is that the standard hit of the bike can combo into a wheelie pop for a nice 18% damage.

While we're talking about FSmash, something I'm wondering, is FSmash potentially safe if spaced right on shield? It has a pretty significant pushback on shield.

 

[Rakurai]

I think the endlag is too high for it to be safe, even if you connect with it at max range.

 

[Axel311]

To win a tournament you really need great consistency. When tournaments are run with 2 stock and no customs, it is very hard to get that with wario. He lacks a good combo game, and you can't afford to miss many wafts if you are against top players. In any given game, a wario can beat anyone. It's just being able to plow your way through many great players that is probably the biggest challenge.

I think if customs take off, wario might be more popular. Speeding bike + quick waft gives him a lot more consistency and a better combo game.

I've been working on Wario as my main secondary for a few months now and this is how I feel. Wario to me is easily the highest variance character in the game. Many times whether you win or lose a match comes down to missing or hitting a single waft. Making a mistake on a waft attempt is so costly, that's the one thing I really hate about Wario. If you go on a string of waft misses you could lose games to less talented players, but if you are fortunate and hit a long streak of wafts in a row in consecutive games you could overperform and win sets you have no business winning. Wario is so inconsistent.

But at the same time you force high variance on your opponents which makes them incredibly uncomfortable and is what makes Wario so scary. Playing Wario makes me feel like I'm the guy at the poker table who is constantly raising and making people nervous.

But I think it takes a very specific type of person to do well with Wario. It's crazy how patient you have to be sometimes...I temporarily gave up trying to co-main him because I was losing games due to impatience.

As for him being unpopular, I think that's mainly because Wario rewards a very passive playstyle. That's just not appealing to most players. Most people find aggressive characters more fun.

 

[Magik0722]

Thats why i pick rose scented waft. It lowers varience.

 

[Sari]

What frame does the hitbox for a normal half charged waft start and do you think it's useful for getting out of combos?

 

[Zionaze]

do any of you guys actually use the frame 3 halfcharge waft to actually escape combos? Every time I'm in the position to use it I get scared of wasting it so I don't really use it. Any success?

 

[Rakurai]

I wouldn't use the half charged standard waft for combo breaking, simply because its ability to get early kills is just too valuable.

The fully charged Quick Waft on the other hand, has frame 2 super armor and is thus god-like for combo breaking.

 

[Zionaze]

The fully charged Quick Waft on the other hand, has frame 2 super armor and is thus god-like for combo breaking.

would quick waft change certain MUs where he would get juggled a lot like sheik to become easier?

 

[bc1910]

Sorry to make a whole thread but I couldn't find a Wario Social and so I didn't know where to post this. Mods, feel free to tell me where I should post this and lock the thread.

Title says it all, I'm looking for Wario players to practice against because it's fast becoming one of my most hated MUs and I really need to figure him out. My NNID is bc1910. I live in the UK so I would prefer to fight European Wario players due to lag issues, if you're from the US feel free to add me so we can try to play but if it's laggy we'll give up, laggy matches don't help anyone.

Once again, sorry to make an entire thread, feel free to direct me to the proper place to ask this.

 

[Labernash]

What the freak am I supposed to do against characters/ players that go SUPER aggro and put out a lot of hot boxes?

I have played mainly two different players that main Yoshi, one is way better than me and one is way worse than me. The great one is defensive and patient and I do very well against him. The other one, who is still pretty good, is super aggressive and puts out a lot of hit boxes. Why is it easier for me to beat a top level player than it is a lower level local player? I can perfect shield so much, but if I ever decided to attack, I get a trade at best, then the trade sets them up for a combo and my best option is to reset and try again. How is Wario supposed to handle the a lot of hit boxes type of players? If Yoshi is slow paced, the MU is 60/40 Wario's favor, and if Yoshi is aggro, 40/60 Yoshi's favor.

For instance, I just lost to a Dr Mario on wifi. He was pretty good, but had next to no defensive play. I tried playing aggro and putting out hitboxes, but fair > grab isn't as good as any combo Doc can do. So I loose out. Then I start spacing fairs and he fairs me for a trade but I lose a stock and he takes 6%. I tried playing campy, and it worked okay, until he realized that I was camping. He just rushed me down and put moves out, then just out of habit would shield and roll away. If I PS'd and then went for the punish, it would hit the shield and he'd roll away and then set up for more attacks. Doc was able to keep enough space on me to where I couldn't grab him, he could hit me out of bite on reaction, and then he'd kill me at 80% before I dealt but 20%. I still won a good number of those games, but most of the time I felt helpless when he played super aggro. Like, he wasn't very good in that he was super habitual and never read anything. I read him a lot and made good decisions, but if he decided to do any move at all and try and follow up, my punish was nigh.

Any tips? Other characters that handle that play style better? I'm consistently losing to players worse than the players I'm beating because of aggression. When those lower level players get nervous or something and slow down, it's a mad easy win. I'm so confused.

Edit: also this has never been a problem for me until Smash 4 Wario. I did super well against aggro MKs in Brawl. I don't know why MUs that are even/ in Wario's favor are so much harder when they press more buttons in this game.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Sorry to make a whole thread but I couldn't find a Wario Social and so I didn't know where to post this. Mods, feel free to tell me where I should post this and lock the thread.

Title says it all, I'm looking for Wario players to practice against because it's fast becoming one of my most hated MUs and I really need to figure him out. My NNID is bc1910. I live in the UK so I would prefer to fight European Wario players due to lag issues, if you're from the US feel free to add me so we can try to play but if it's laggy we'll give up, laggy matches don't help anyone.

Once again, sorry to make an entire thread, feel free to direct me to the proper place to ask this.

Yeah we don't allow matchmaking threads, so I moved your post here.

I think I'm the only EU Wario here, but I'm on vacation with relatives and the wifi here is pretty poor, so I won't be able to play until August. Maybe you'll fine someone else however.

@ Labernash : Honestly seems like input lag is making it a lot difficult for you to punish moves. Best thing I could tell your is to be more patient. There's no reason Doc should be able to rush down Wario when Wario can just run away, anyway.

 

[Labernash]

@ Labernash : Honestly seems like input lag is making it a lot difficult for you to punish moves. Best thing I could tell your is to be more patient. There's no reason Doc should be able to rush down Wario when Wario can just run away, anyway.

Lag is definitely playing a major role, specifically with the Doc. But the Yoshi's are offline.

I am being super patient. I'm literally never approaching. I try to run away but get hit > combo'd. If I jump over him, I get uaird or nairs or bairs. Or egged. Or anything. If I airdodge, my landing gets egg layed, grabbed, smashed. If I roll, same thing. If I go offstage I actually can be pretty successful, but not on wifi. Or fair spiked.

I run away and only deal what damage is literally free... So I'll just lose with 60% given and 99999999% taken.

Wario is my best character, but he's my worst character. This is so freaking strange. I'll beat those people with random pocket characters. But if I don't go Wario, I'll lose. But if I don't pick a pocket character, I'll lose. Maybe I just shouldn't have a main or something.

I'll keep trying though. Thanks.

Still taking any advice anyone is willing to give. I gotta figure this out and I'm stumped.

 

[Axel311]

I think it depends on the opponent more than us. Wario can do well on any stage. Platforms let you use bite more effectively, but bike less effectively. Vice versa for flat stages. I have to 2nd duck hunt, I really like it. It hurts our ability to KO with upsmash because of the high ceiling but the sides are shorter so we can KO earlier with bair, fthrow, ftilt and waft.

I think generally I want flat stages against fast rush down types and anyone who is susceptible to camping and doesn't have a projectile to beat bike. Except for really slow heavyweights - I tend to be more comfortable on platform stages so I can abuse their lack of mobility.

I generally want platform stages against projectile spammers so we can approach better. And then there's a couple specific stages for other characters. Against zero suit I always want duck hunt because the high ceiling hurts her boost jump KO potential. Sonic I always want platforms to mess with spin dash, and pikachu I never want platforms because of quick attack.

 

[Xeze]

Wii U: Smashville and Town & City.

3DS: Yoshi's Island.

Basically mostly flat stages, with some platforms to help against certain MUs.

 

[Sari]

How did MySmashCorner do this as Wario (using the bike on the ground immediately after a half waft)? I checked the whole video and can't find an explanation.

 

[Waroh]

How did MySmashCorner do this as Wario (using the bike on the ground immediately after a half waft)? I checked the whole video and can't find an explanation.

It appears to me that they may have gotten hit out of the half waft by Zelda's neutral-B.

 

[Funkermonster]

I don't play this character like at all (he does look pretty fun though, plus its Wario!) but I'm just curious: What are Wario's main weaknesses? And does he have like any combos or strings at all? I don't come across this character very often, but when I do he's a little tough to fight against and I don't have as much MU knowledge against him as I'd like to (I play various characters, but my main is Mega Man if it matters). I've heard what hurts him most is his low damage output, killing moveset, and his brutal lack of range; but I'd love one of you guys to vouch for that and confirm it if you got the time, never hurts to double check and be sure. An from the few times I do play against him, I don't remember getting comboed by a Wario even once and he doesn't seem like he can do it at all, seems to be among the few comboless characters besides , , , ,/,,, and as far as my knowledge goes. But I could always be wrong.

 

[Kaora]

I think it depends on the opponent more than us. Wario can do well on any stage. Platforms let you use bite more effectively, but bike less effectively. Vice versa for flat stages. I have to 2nd duck hunt, I really like it. It hurts our ability to KO with upsmash because of the high ceiling but the sides are shorter so we can KO earlier with bair, fthrow, ftilt and waft.

I think generally I want flat stages against fast rush down types and anyone who is susceptible to camping and doesn't have a projectile to beat bike. Except for really slow heavyweights - I tend to be more comfortable on platform stages so I can abuse their lack of mobility.

I generally want platform stages against projectile spammers so we can approach better. And then there's a couple specific stages for other characters. Against zero suit I always want duck hunt because the high ceiling hurts her boost jump KO potential. Sonic I always want platforms to mess with spin dash, and pikachu I never want platforms because of quick attack.

I just have to correct you on one point. Duck Hunt does not have an high celling and does not have shorter sides. It's a thing that I saw more than once, but it's a mistake. Duck Hunt have the same blast zone vertically and horizontaly (near the edge) than Final Destination.
Just test it if you don't believe me. I made my test with sonic's back throw and mewtwo's up throw !

 

[Kaora]

Quick question : Am I the only one since the patch that don't get the ledge frame 1 vulnerability with dash attack? (the one sending people low, which I used a lot against char like captain falcon) ?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I just have to correct you on one point. Duck Hunt does not have an high celling and does not have shorter sides. It's a thing that I saw more than once, but it's a mistake. Duck Hunt have the same blast zone vertically and horizontaly (near the edge) than Final Destination.
Just test it if you don't believe me. I made my test with sonic's back throw and mewtwo's up throw !

It's more than being at the edge with the horizontal blast zone, though. The average hit will be closer to the center, and if a stage is longer, it takes a greater distance to get to the edge of the stage in the first place.

 

[Axel311]

I just have to correct you on one point. Duck Hunt does not have an high celling and does not have shorter sides. It's a thing that I saw more than once, but it's a mistake. Duck Hunt have the same blast zone vertically and horizontaly (near the edge) than Final Destination.
Just test it if you don't believe me. I made my test with sonic's back throw and mewtwo's up throw !

Wow, I tested it out and you're right. I'm shocked, I've always been under the impression the sides and ceiling were shorter on that stage. Thanks for the info. You just saved me some mistakes on stage selection next tourney.

 

[Maziyah]

I main pac-man but have been trying to secondary wario, any tips?

 

[Ridel]

So in what cases should I use Burring Bike over normal Bike?

 

[Spinosaurus]

So in what cases should I use Burring Bike over normal Bike?

I don't think there is a single mu where it's preferred over default or speeding bike. Mostly want to use it for tires esque shenanigans, but not against anyone that could stop you from setting it up.

 

[Ridel]

I don't think there is a single mu where it's preferred over default or speeding bike. Mostly want to use it for tires esque shenanigans, but not against anyone that could stop you from setting it up.

So basically it comes down to preference.

 

[Spinosaurus]

So basically it comes down to preference.

That's pretty much it for Wario's bike customs yeah, but applies less to Burying Bike since it's far less versatile than the other two.

 

[Ridel]

That's pretty much it for Wario's bike customs yeah, but applies less to Burying Bike since it's far less versatile than the other two.

I think it's got a lot of combo potential though and has some kill set-ups. It's at least fun to use against lower tiered characters who are very susceptible to it.

 

[Rakurai]

The only real merit to the Burying Bike is that it's the easiest to use as a throwing weapon and/or for edge guarding due to the fact that it pretty much stays in place if you jump off it immediately.

It moves too slowly to pose much of a threat and is much worse for recovering then the other bikes. Wario is also unable to capitalize on the bury effectively, due to lacking any powerful multi-hitting moves that can pull them out of it before the final hit connects.

If you want a bike that has combo set-ups, the Speeding Bike is a much better option.

 

[Ridel]

It's so much fun to toss around, it's a shame it's not very useful in comparison to the other side specials.

 

[Zionaze]

I love LOVE LOVE burying bike. Using it as a projectile and just let it bounce around the stage is a serious threat. If you get your opponent sandwiched between the bike you can get some serious damage.

 

[Rakurai]

Once people realize they can negate a thrown bike's hitbox by hitting it with almost anything, it becomes a lot less threatening.

 

[Ridel]

Shhhhhhh we don't need to mention that yet.

 

[Zionaze]

as long as thier focused on the bike its good for me :D

 

[bc1910]

I need serious, serious help against Wario. I simply cannot beat a good one. It's getting to the point where I would rather fight a good Sonic than a good Wario because I feel I have more of a chance. Yeah, it's that bad.

I main Greninja and am keen to learn the MU with him. Customs off. Here are my main problems.

• Wario is so. ****ing. Safe. He seems basically unapproachable in the air and unpunishable in everything he does. I was literally playing this guy, reading him perfectly (like I could say to myself "here comes the rising Fair, a jump, now a Nair or fastfall empty land into shield) and I couldn't do a thing. I just don't know what to do. It seemed like I was never able to punish, or rather Wario is always able to weave out of my punishment range and punish me for trying to hit him.
• On the ground Wario is not so bad, however he seems to be able to transition seamlessly between throwing crap out in the air and shielding on the ground. Whenever I try to punish him oop, at some point he landed and is now shielding so I'm gonna get grabbed. I have no idea where the windows of punishment are for this character.
• Dash attack is really annoying. The guaranteed trip + tech chase gets me down. Wario launches himself really far at the start of the move so it's really easy to get hit by. Blocking works against it but I'm covering my issues with blocking later.
• Shurikens are invalidated completely by the bike. They may as well not exist. I thought not using shurikens might be the key to the MU but he continued to just wall me out in the air.
• Wario cannot be juggled. His air speed is too good and chomp just beats stuff. I do not know how to abuse his disadvantaged state.
• On a lot of moves, his damage per hit is really high. On the rare occasion that I did get a juggle off, a couple of Bairs and Dairs later and I'm back to square one, or probably behind in damage.
• Shielding can actually be good against him, and Wario can't kill a shielding opponent until high percent with Fthrow, however Greninja is not a character who wants to be sitting in shield. Also Wario can keep safe even when hitting a shield, either with spaced aerials or just driving into me with the bike repeatedly. You cannot sit in shield hoping he does something punishable, because a) he doesn't have to and b) quite simply, this game doesn't have infinite block.
• Killing is not a problem because of waft. Even the near-full charge version that he gets after like 90 seconds kills well at over 100%. He can also kill with the bike (why?) and various aerials and tilts.
• Wario is nigh unkillable, with a fantastic recovery and high weight.
• This character seems like he has no weaknesses.

Stuff I'm actually okay with:

• I don't find his edgeguarding tough to deal with. It's good, but his traps with Bite + throwing the bike up are generally reactable and avoidable. Greninja has a very flexible recovery anyway, he can Hydro Pump over Wario's head if necessary and usually get away with it, especially if Wario is holding the bike.
• I don't have too much of a problem with Bite in general, I generally know when it's coming and its poor range often lets it down. I don't get hit by it really apart from the occasional B-reverse.
• I don't mind fully charged waft too much. I know the hit confirms and I can generally avoid getting hit by the thing, I can count the number of times I've been cheesed by a 40% waft kill on one hand. However the next level of charge down is pretty effective and I get hit by that more often. He also can store that version up more easily.

tl;dr Wario is so safe, he seems totally unpunishable in everything he does in the air and he doesn't have to do punishable stuff on the ground. Every attempt to punish him results in him weaving away and punishing my attempt, or fastfalling into shield and grabbing me. I cannot hit the ******.

Any help here is much appreciated. If anyone wants to help me learn the MU I'm also keen, preferably a European player but we can try a UK - USA connection and see if it's playable.

@ TheReflexWonder I know you play both characters and are a knowledgeable person in general, I think you especially could help me here if you don't mind.

@ Spinosaurus You're really smart too.

 

[ObZenIV]

Anyone have info on wario's crawl/crouch what it goes under and such?