Q&A Wario Q&A and Help Thread - What's Wario Land

[Andaya]

Thanks. So it's generally better to stay on stage unless I'm super sure I can land the hit?

Another matchup that's giving me trouble is Pac-Man. I have sooo much damn trouble killing him.

Pac-Man hates when someone messes with his setups, so try eating his projectiles (if you think it's safe) or simply grabbing them.
Don't get baited into eating them while close to him, as that will leave you slightly vulnerable.
You can also knock his hydrant away with a quick f-tilt (but not angled downwards) or an up smash.
He also doesn't like shield very much, since his grab is pretty bad, so don't worry too much about shielding. It's very useful to block his quick aerials. If you see that he's going to grab, spotdodge or roll into him.
You want to play very hit and run, especially if he's setting up something.

 

[ZeGlasses!]

I can play the neutral really well against Pac-Man, it's killing the dot-munching jerk that gives me trouble. Edgeguarding him is a nightmare and he's pretty good at stuffing my aerial kill moves.

 

[Andaya]

I can play the neutral really well against Pac-Man, it's killing the dot-munching jerk that gives me trouble. Edgeguarding him is a nightmare and he's pretty good at stuffing my aerial kill moves.

Edgeguarding him is pretty hard due to his very good recovery and super armor on sideB. The only times he's really vulnerable is during upB (but still hard to hit) and beginning/middle or very end of sideB, he gains armor when he eats the pellet. One thing you can do is dash attack at the ledge after he sideB's and hit him with the trip hitbox, then try gimping him while uses upB.
If you manage to leave him sideBless away from the stage, you can try stealing his third trampoline jump, leaving him in special fall.

 

[CoveredNMoney]

What do you guys think of optimal wario gameplay in the future? Do you think wario will have to play campy as he did in brawl? or do you think he can play the passive aggressive style?

 

[Dar4]

What's more optimal to use out of dtilt combos, dash attack or grab? Any situations where I should use one over the other?

Been wondering about

dtilt to dtilt to dash attack vrs. dtilt to dtilt to grab

grab to upthrow/dthrow does more % but wondering if dash attack is more likely to hit. Seems like I've been missing lots of grabs out of dtilt combos lately.

 

[C4-]

What's more optimal to use out of dtilt combos, dash attack or grab? Any situations where I should use one over the other?

Been wondering about

dtilt to dtilt to dash attack vrs. dtilt to dtilt to grab

grab to upthrow/dthrow does more % but wondering if dash attack is more likely to hit. Seems like I've been missing lots of grabs out of dtilt combos lately.

DTilt to grab is almost always optimal since you can get more percentage from a throw and better stage positioning.

DTilt to Dash attack is easier to connect since dash attack covers a broader area than a grab. Sometimes DTilt pushes them too far for grab to even connect where as dash attack could, depends on where you hit them with the D tilt since D tilt has 2 different areas on its hitbox that send at slightly different angles.

 

[C4-]

What do you guys think of optimal wario gameplay in the future? Do you think wario will have to play campy as he did in brawl? or do you think he can play the passive aggressive style?

optimal wario gameplay is always going to be campy unless they change something major in a patch, he literally has no tools in neutral to make him able to approach/agress. It'll most likely get more campy if anything.i already feel wario has to be more campy because of new dlc characters like Ryu, bayo, corrin, etc who can just laugh at his approach options lol

 

[Tayman]

Does anyone know if it is possible to auto cancel up air in a short hop like fox can do with up air

 

[Waroh]

Does anyone know if it is possible to auto cancel up air in a short hop like fox can do with up air

No. Only forward air and back air can be auto canceled out of a short hop.

 

[Crystaljiggs]

Is there a way to get a nair so i can follow up with a walt like a airdodge or a roll read?

 

[Dar4]

Might want to try and be more specific, I personally don't know what exactly you're asking.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Is there a way to get a nair so i can follow up with a walt like a airdodge or a roll read?

Merged your thread here.

Are you asking about the best ways land the sourspot of the hit?

 

[Crystaljiggs]

i want the sourspot of the hit sorry for the wording i put. i am not sure if nair is the best option to get a waft kill or should i do one of those setups where with the bike you can hold the bike off the stage and intercept some recoverys with waft

 

[Dar4]

i want the sourspot of the hit sorry for the wording i put. i am not sure if nair is the best option to get a waft kill or should i do one of those setups where with the bike you can hold the bike off the stage and intercept some recoverys with waft

Depends on the situation, you should know all the setups and try to look for spots to get any of them in. It's not like one of them is "the best" and you only go for that one and ignore the others. Some are definitely used more than others though.

I personally think sourspot nair to waft is most practical. It's a true combo at low to mid percents and not all that hard to land. Fast fall upair to waft has the most forgiving confirms but is harder to land and usually isn't safe to attempt unless you catch them in some lag. Ground canceled dair to waft is only guaranteed at half waft and is not safe. Sourspot fair to waft is from my experience by far the safest to fish for but it's DI dependent so it's not a true combo.

As far as using bike for waft on recoveries the only one I find practical is wafting on a bike that's sitting on the edge after a side B ledge cancel to extend the hitbox. You can also do stuff like walk off the edge with bike and waft on it but I find that unnecessary when you can just fart on a bike at the ledge that's been side B canceled. This is a setup that's easy to land but takes a lot of time to setup and usually requires you to force the opponent to Up B, so it's not the most practical.

Hope that helps. I'd say most of my wafts come from nair or as a raw punish. Bike at the ledge is pretty rare because of the long setup time required but I get it occasionally.

 

[Crystaljiggs]

wario is hard to use but the feeling of getting a waft is so good

 

[Sari]

Is there anything this poor Link could have done to get out of this situation?

EDIT: Off topic but how can I make gfycat posts not so big?

 

[WRECK-IT MUNDO]

Is there anything this poor Link could have done to get out of this situation?

EDIT: Off topic but how can I make gfycat posts not so big?

I didn't knew Chomp doesn't have that grab penalty unlike the other grabs in this game?

Anyway.. That was Hilarious!

 

[Tayman]

Guy usually when i get off our bike sometime the bike rebounds off the legde and get send back the opposite way but it has no hitbox, but just iplayed a match where my bike rebounded off the stage and hit the opponent can someone tell me if they have ever gotten this or not?

 

[WRECK-IT MUNDO]

Guy usually when i get off our bike sometime the bike rebounds off the legde and get send back the opposite way but it has no hitbox, but just iplayed a match where my bike rebounded off the stage and hit the opponent can someone tell me if they have ever gotten this or not?

It depends how fast the bike goes. If the bike doesn't really go fast at all, then the bike will likely have no hitbox at all, except if it GOOOOOes fast.

 

[Tayman]

Yo I can now land falling up air at will even on char as small as kirby and does anyone find it easier to use double sticking when landing the falling upair that way you can control wario while up airing

 

[Sari]

Two questions:

1. What do you guys think of Battlefield? I've been trying to use Wario there but have had little success, mainly due to how my opponents benefit with their characters on the stage. What are the benefits of going to Battlefield as Wario?
2. Can constantly chomping on someone with two Warios (like in the gif I posted) be used as a legitimate tactic in doubles? I don't think there's anyway to escape it.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

In Brawl, Wario often struggled with platforms because he didn't really need the extra help to camp and other characters could prevent his jumping approaches from working. I imagine some of that comes into play in Smash 4.

Because you can't hold out your mouth forever, and the opponent has great control over when he's released, that's not realistic.

 

[Dar4]

I'm curious, what does everyone think about the matchup?

I'm honestly having big issues with it, even though she's a bad character I feel like she counters Wario in a lot of ways. Unlike most other characters we can't really take advantage of her lack of range and zone her out because we don't have much range ourselves. The priority on her aerials sucks for us, our fair gets outprioritized, she keeps with us mobility wise in the air which is usually where Wario wants to be. She has good options to knock us off bike and just good mobility in the air in general. And because she's so floaty and small fart setups are really tough to land and only work in a very small window. And she can actually edgeguard us.

I know she's considered one of the worst characters in smash 4 but I feel like this is not an easy matchup for Wario. I'm having big issues both fighting her in the air and landing waft.

Tips/Suggestions/Thoughts? I'm honestly thinking Puff may win this matchup despite Wario's big weight advantage just because she's so good in the air and hard to waft on. I feel like Wario can't really take advantage of her weaknesses. Could just be me being bad at the matchup, I'm not sure.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Just move backward. She can beat you in thr air but can't approach to save her life. You will never be punished for airdodging or rolling away from her. Retreating B-Air. Get that Waft.

 

[Ssbm_Jag]

Dar4 Retreating B-air+rolling literally is the answer and is what I do. F-tilt is extremely good as well if you know how to use it. I think this is Wario's absolute best match-up in the game. I completely understand frustration with low-tiers though. You can d-air to anything at any percent. When edge-guarding, just empty hop and make them think you're going to bair and bait the air-dodge and then bair and jiggz gets Ko'd at 60% lol. When on the ground next to jiggs, try not to roll, getting grabbed is better than eating a dash attack or F-smash imo. Try jumping away OOS if you find an opening. If you respect jigg's dash attack, bair, and f-smash, you'll live forever. Rest is atrocious and if you get KO'd by rest, you're Wario and can come back and F-smash jiggs.

 

[MikeyNation]

Ok I have a few questions so I might as well group them all together. Any help is appreciated.
1) There is a weekly local tournament that i attend and most weeks it is me (wario) vs a shulk main in grand finals. I feel like this match up is not in wario's favor and I struggle getting in with shulk's large hitboxes. Any advice in this MU?

2) I have been watching a lot of top level wario play (reflex, etc.) and noticed the main thing I don't use in my play is dtilt. I understand the uses and potential grabs or dash attacks I can get from dtilt but it is hard for me to find a time to use it. Basically I want to know when is the best time to throw out dtilt because I feel like there is usually better options.

3) Ok so although wario will always be my main, lately I've been really considering picking up a top tier/ high tier for wario's bad match-ups. I would think someone with a little more range or maybe even a projectile. Any recommendations?

Main: Secondaries:

 

[Sari]

Ok I have a few questions so I might as well group them all together. Any help is appreciated.
1) There is a weekly local tournament that i attend and most weeks it is me (wario) vs a shulk main in grand finals. I feel like this match up is not in wario's favor and I struggle getting in with shulk's large hitboxes. Any advice in this MU?

2) I have been watching a lot of top level wario play (reflex, etc.) and noticed the main thing I don't use in my play is dtilt. I understand the uses and potential grabs or dash attacks I can get from dtilt but it is hard for me to find a time to use it. Basically I want to know when is the best time to throw out dtilt because I feel like there is usually better options.

3) Ok so although wario will always be my main, lately I've been really considering picking up a top tier/ high tier for wario's bad match-ups. I would think someone with a little more range or maybe even a projectile. Any recommendations?

Main: Secondaries:

1.) Shulk's range is pretty big though to make up for it he has crappy frame data on his attacks. Use Wario's air speed to punish his attacks and play defensively to let waft charge (a full charge waft will usually kill Shulk at low %'s, especially if he's using the smash monado).

2.) I usually use d-tilt as a "get away from me" kind of move since it comes out quicker than jab. Someone else could probably answer this question better.

3.) I picked up not that long ago and love using him against top tiers. He has lots of range, good frame data, great kill moves, and he even has a projectile.

 

[Axel311]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLe9QD46muY

This is a video from a friendlies game I played today. Can someone please tell me what's going on with the bike at the 2:15 mark in this video? So confused at to why the bike moves the way it does at times. It just jumped backwards back onto the stage for no reason. Is this a glitch? It looks like it hit an invisible wall and jumped back on stage.

It worked out well for me this time. Got a gimp off of it. I just have no idea why the bike jumped back on stage here.

 

[ToastPerson]

As a Wario secondary, I ask, how does Wario beat Mega Man, or any multiple projectile character in general, I keep getting walled out and un able to use Bike most of the time, I heard that Mega Man vs Wario is in Wario's favor, but I need it explained to me

 

[Ze Diglett]

Wario mains, I kind of feel like I'm asking the wrong question to the wrong people, but how do I deal with fighting this character? No matter which action I take against Wario, it seems to always be the wrong one. It feels like he has a consistent answer to any option and, to be honest, it makes me quite salty when playing against him. I main R.O.B. and I've heard lots of people call it close to even but slightly in R.O.B.'s favor, yet for me, the MU always seems to be 30:70 the other way around. I'm kinda decent with Mewtwo as well, but I can't imagine the MU would be good enough to make the counterpick worth it since I'm considerably better with R.O.B.
Of course, it's okay if you guys don't want to tell me any secrets. I've already accepted that I'm trash at this game and have largely given up trying to "git gud" anyhow. Also, sorry if this sounds like a salty post, I just got done going 1-7 against an FG Wario

I hate to do this, but... Bump.
The Wario MU hasn't gotten any easier for me no matter what character I use; it seems like I'm always either getting smacked around by the Bike's 1000 hitboxes or getting caught in that goddamn command grab Chomp. Pretty much the only reason I'm still sane at this point is because Wario is, thankfully, such an underused character.
So, basically, my question is how do I avoid being caught by Wario's specials? They absolutely destroy me when I feel like they shouldn't.

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

The Pit boards are discussing Wario we would love if some of you could help out

Thank you for your time

 

[Axel311]

As a Wario secondary, I ask, how does Wario beat Mega Man, or any multiple projectile character in general, I keep getting walled out and un able to use Bike most of the time, I heard that Mega Man vs Wario is in Wario's favor, but I need it explained to me

There's recent sets of Reflex (the best Wario) against Scatt (the best Megaman) out there on youtube. Definitely watch them and you'll get an idea.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLe9QD46muY

This is a video from a friendlies game I played today. Can someone please tell me what's going on with the bike at the 2:15 mark in this video? So confused at to why the bike moves the way it does at times. It just jumped backwards back onto the stage for no reason. Is this a glitch? It looks like it hit an invisible wall and jumped back on stage.

It worked out well for me this time. Got a gimp off of it. I just have no idea why the bike jumped back on stage here.

YouTube says this video is private.

Wario mains, I kind of feel like I'm asking the wrong question to the wrong people, but how do I deal with fighting this character? No matter which action I take against Wario, it seems to always be the wrong one. It feels like he has a consistent answer to any option and, to be honest, it makes me quite salty when playing against him. I main R.O.B. and I've heard lots of people call it close to even but slightly in R.O.B.'s favor, yet for me, the MU always seems to be 30:70 the other way around. I'm kinda decent with Mewtwo as well, but I can't imagine the MU would be good enough to make the counterpick worth it since I'm considerably better with R.O.B.
Of course, it's okay if you guys don't want to tell me any secrets. I've already accepted that I'm trash at this game and have largely given up trying to "git gud" anyhow. Also, sorry if this sounds like a salty post, I just got done going 1-7 against an FG Wario
I hate to do this, but... Bump.
The Wario MU hasn't gotten any easier for me no matter what character I use; it seems like I'm always either getting smacked around by the Bike's 1000 hitboxes or getting caught in that goddamn command grab Chomp. Pretty much the only reason I'm still sane at this point is because Wario is, thankfully, such an underused character.
So, basically, my question is how do I avoid being caught by Wario's specials? They absolutely destroy me when I feel like they shouldn't.

Neutral-B is really annoying and if used well there isn't really a foolproof answer to it that actively punishes Wario without making a read. At least it doesn't do much damage if you mash at all, and you can always roll away from Wario without fear of punishment.

Forward-B isn't that great; stick an aerial out on reaction and you will beat it every time. That goes for when Wario throws the Bike, too. Wario can't change the initial movement speed without being at a ledge, either.

There's no good answer to Waft other than safe movement making it so that Wario feels like doing a risky one with no setup is the only way he'll land it. Remember that when it is fully charged, you're no longer losing anything for stalling out the game.

Up-B is reasonably fast on startup but is really just a bad Mario Up-B. Be smart about how you edgeguard.

As a Wario secondary, I ask, how does Wario beat Mega Man, or any multiple projectile character in general, I keep getting walled out and un able to use Bike most of the time, I heard that Mega Man vs Wario is in Wario's favor, but I need it explained to me

War of attrition. It's even-ish, IMO. Be content with punishes like Dash Attack, Neutral-B, and N-Air/F-Air stuff. Characters like Mega Man want to keep people out, but that gives you Waft over time. Abuse that fact and don't be afraid to roll or airdodge away a lot. U-Air is annoying but easy to dodge. Mega Man B-Air is the main killer and what really needs to be respected. Keep close to the ground at those percents and be wary of B-Throw at very high percents; otherwise you should stay alive for days.

 

[Axel311]

YouTube says this video is private.

Oops! Sorry about that, it's fixed now.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

If you turn yourself around with an animation (most easily done with a B move) when a grounded Bike is still rolling forward, the Bike will turn around, too (though the momentum stays in the current direction. Also, if you're hit off the Bike and turned around by that hit, the Bike will turn around and will reverse its momentum. This appears to be the combinatuon of these two situations and therefore not doable without someone hitting you first.

 

[alexthepony]

When wario dies, does he get a full wampt or it's carried over from the last stocks?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

The charge stays at what it was previously.

 

[Axel311]

Two questions:

1. What do you guys think of Battlefield? I've been trying to use Wario there but have had little success, mainly due to how my opponents benefit with their characters on the stage. What are the benefits of going to Battlefield as Wario

Late comment but I also echo this. Also really don't like Battlefield (or Dreamland) against most matchups, Wario feels weak there. For me it seems like the platforms makes it harder to approach, since my neutral with Wario is a lot of aerial bobbing and weaving. And against sword characters, they seem to get a lot of benefit from swords going through platforms. More benefit than we do out of Bike shenanigans or Bite going through platforms. I'm putting a lot of work into my secondary so I can use him when I get counterpicked to Dreamland or Battlefield from now on as he does very well on those stages.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Wario boards, I once again apologize, but this character is driving me absolutely ****ing bananas. Literally whatever I do against this character doesn't work. I shield his approach, he chomps me. I try to challenge him, he hits me with one of his billion-hitbox aerials. I do anything else, and the bike from hell gets me. It seems that literally the only way to beat this son of a ***** is by having godlike reflexes, and mine are, quite frankly, horrible. I'm honestly convinced that this character is entirely unbeatable for someone like me. I am literally about ready to quit the game because of this character, and I have no idea what I can do. No matter who's using him, this character beats the living tar out of me and irritates me to no end and there's nothing I can do about it except quit. MU unfamiliarity isn't really the problem either, since one of my friends mains Wario and for some reason the game loves matching me up against him online (it's not like I want to fight Wario, anyway). Please, Wario mains, I am at the end of my rope here. I'm unable to have fun with this game to the point of literally throwing my 3DS because of Wario and it has to stop. Is there anything I can do to combat this insurmountable nightmare with my god-awful reflexes, or should I use my better judgement and just quit any match against him while I'm ahead? As of now, I am heavily leaning towards the latter and I'm curious as to what you guys have to say.
P.S. If you think this salt-induced rant was bad, I was originally intending to make a separate thread for it...

 

[Axel311]

I've thought a bit about the trip effect of dash attack lately and ways to utilize it better. When you trip someone on stage, what typically are your best options/ideas for taking advantage of it? I'll try and tech chase for another dash attack often, but wondering if there's something more optimal and creative I can do with this. I know there's tip of dash attack to waft, but seems a little unpractical.

Wario boards, I once again apologize, but this character is driving me absolutely ****ing bananas. Literally whatever I do against this character doesn't work. I shield his approach, he chomps me. I try to challenge him, he hits me with one of his billion-hitbox aerials. I do anything else, and the bike from hell gets me. It seems that literally the only way to beat this son of a ***** is by having godlike reflexes, and mine are, quite frankly, horrible. I'm honestly convinced that this character is entirely unbeatable for someone like me. I am literally about ready to quit the game because of this character, and I have no idea what I can do. No matter who's using him, this character beats the living tar out of me and irritates me to no end and there's nothing I can do about it except quit. MU unfamiliarity isn't really the problem either, since one of my friends mains Wario and for some reason the game loves matching me up against him online (it's not like I want to fight Wario, anyway). Please, Wario mains, I am at the end of my rope here. I'm unable to have fun with this game to the point of literally throwing my 3DS because of Wario and it has to stop. Is there anything I can do to combat this insurmountable nightmare with my god-awful reflexes, or should I use my better judgement and just quit any match against him while I'm ahead? As of now, I am heavily leaning towards the latter and I'm curious as to what you guys have to say.
P.S. If you think this salt-induced rant was bad, I was originally intending to make a separate thread for it...

I'd recommend you post some videos of your matches against Wario players, really can't give any input without seeing you play.