VS Fox - Matchup Discussion and Analysis

[A_Kae]

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Fox Matchup Thread

KuroganeHammer's Marth Frame Data [1.1.0]
Mastercore v3 Marth Dump [1.1.0]

KuroganeHammer's Fox Frame Data [1.0.4]
Mastercore v3 Fox Dump [1.1.0]
[fox_arwing] [fox_blaster] [fox_blaster_bullet] [fox_illusion] [fox_landmaster] [fox_landmaster_shell]

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[Pugwest]

60-40 Fox favor.

To fast, in out, like sheik annoying.

 

[RespectingOpinions]

Marth can theoretically cover almost every option Fox has offstage. My personal goal when fighting Fox players is to never let them back on stage if they're off.

Marth's Dthrow uair can actually create a 50/50 scenario on Fox around 100%. Jump doesn't come out fast enough so you Marth can tipper uair for a kill. You can also read the air dodge and get the tipper uair kill regardless.

Other Marth players like chasing Fox when they're in the air with Bairs and uairs to continue juggles or get Fox offstage creating edgeguard oppurtunities with Marth.

The matchup is probably around 45:55 in Fox's favor because of Fox's overwhelming pressure at times, lasers, and his amazing air traps. But Marth does have tools and options.

 

[DavemanCozy]

I have played no good Marths, so all this comes from theorizing;

55:45 imo in Fox's favor. Marth's jab, Dancing Blades first hit, and sh b-air are good at stopping Fox's run-ins and approaches, the first two give you good follow ups as well. If you think Fox is running in with shield, grabbing him and d-throwing is good because Fox falls faster than everyone else and Marth gets follow ups. Fox is faster and has the frame data advantage while Marth is very laggy. Fox will also punish counter attempts and air-dodges heavily because Fox has really good frame traps; only counter when you're sure Fox will go for the KO. Stick to safe spacing moves against him and build damage from them; even if all you get is damage of throws, you could condition the Fox to stop running in with shield, for example. I strongly emphasize the importance of using safe moves too: even at long distance, Fox can punish you with an SH Illusion, and the later part of the hitbox (near the end) can lead to an U-air at KO %.

Counter is good against Fire Fox because it has a hitbox and you can take advantage of that. Side-B won't be stopped, since the hitbox travels behind Fox, he'll go right past you and land too far away by the time Marth/Lucy counter it; think about the distance he's travelling before you go offstage and attempt countering it.

I would ban Final Destination and Battlefield against Fox for game #1, FD lets him run away and shoot without platforms aiding you in the approach, while Battlefield is a great stage for Fox in general and lets him use the platforms to set up even more frame traps.

 

[SherrdreamZ]

I feel overall this match-up is 60/40 65/35 in equally capable players hands in Fox favor. to fight off Fox requires being even more aggressive than most matchups as he has much better approach options, and can effectively Zone you off the ground with his Blaster. the options you have is to try to perfect shield his often readable attacks and use D-Tilt to rack up quick damage and take them off there game. Catching him with Dancing Blade and trying your best to keep him off stage is somewhat imperative to keeping the % advantage.

I also find he is equally capable in aerial combat "Aside from our range" and one misstep can have him prep you for a combo string that can be very difficult to get out of at lower %.Overall i fear this matchup is on par with other fast approach hit and run characters such as Pikachu, Falcon, Sonic and Shiek. IMO -3 to this Matchup.

 

[Gemba Board]

Alright 45:55 imo. This match up isn't all that bad but it's not easy for marth to control fox like other much slower characters. Fox can move in and out of marth's space so quickly. In fact, outside of tech situations, setups, combos, and accidents, tipping a moving fox is a headache. I feel like most of foxes approach options (especially DA) trade with, if not flat out beat our fair. Use nair to zone fox instead. If you can land before the second hit of nair, we could get a free jab 1 or grab. I highly recommend only going for the KO during a jab 1 set up or while ledge guarding. Otherwise, focus more on keeping him out. We can deal damage that way too! Trying to fsmash fox during neutral could get you KO'd. It's best to stay safely behind nair and sometimes fair and pivot ftilt. Dthrow works wonders against fox. He falls fast, right into uairs.

Okay so let's talk about fox's illusion. Fox loves recovering with side b. They'll try to snap straight to the ledge but fox won't grab it as fast as he would using upb instead. Now you can sit at the ledge and try attacking him with whatever you want but consider this: fsmash boasts 3 active frames. This is more than average in marth's move set. If you try to ftilt or dtilt or jab, etc, your attack could clash with the illusion and you get nothing. Your attack animation is canceled into a clash animation and fox keeps on going. However, if fsmash hits the illusion, you will outright slash fox in the face. Fsmash will always have priority over illusion because it's more than 9% stronger. Illusion deals 3% while an untippered fsmash deals 13. Because of this there is no reason you should not ALWAYS stand at the ledge waiting for side b to lose to your fsmash. Shieldbreaker won't clash either but it's harder to hit with if they're aiming for the ledge.

Other than that, watch out for fox's utilt shenanigans. You could counter or upb out at some point, but it's not really a safe option. It's a mess to deal with. Also, try to keep fox from positioning himself under you while you're in the air. Use b reversed shieldbreaker to mix up your landing.