Videos -- IC vs. Falco

[Kyu Puff]

Recent Videos (Late January)

Kyu (ICs) vs. Yedi (Falco) 1
Kyu (ICs) vs. Yedi (Falco) 2
Kyu (ICs) vs. Yedi (Falco) 3
Kyu (ICs) vs. Yedi (Falco) 4
Kyu (ICs) vs. Yedi (Falco) 5
Kyu (ICs) vs. Yedi (Falco) 6
Kyu (ICs) vs. Yedi (Falco) 7
Kyu (ICs) vs. Yedi (Falco) 8
Kyu (ICs) vs. Yedi (Falco) 9
Kyu (ICs) vs. Yedi (Falco) 10

So, in the other thread people were claiming that ICs **** Link.

Kyu (ICs) vs. Spife (Link), YS
Kyu (ICs) vs Spife (Link), PS
Kyu (ICs) vs Spife (Link), PS again

If that's true, please tell me what I'm doing wrong. ;_;

---

I recorded some videos on tuesday...

Kyu (ICs) vs. Roman (Falco) on YS <-- lots of u-tilt in this one
Kyu (ICs) vs. Roman (Falco) on FD
Kyu (ICs) vs. Roman (Falco) on YS


Please critique. I'm better against falco than against link.

 

[Spife]

there there Kyu Puff, it'll get better, in time.

But no I agree IC do not **** Link. I wont go as far as to say Link counters them though. I've only played 3 icies though (2 were in tournament) I lost to one in tourny but it was close (and that was a while ago).
Kyu you should start wobbling my *** then this will never happen again ^.~

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

its all right link can spam , better range ,and his s blocks most of your down b but you have grabs and his moves don't set you up high usually but watch look if he spams chain throw him i don't beleave in chain throwing unless they are being gay or for money

 

[Spife]

How the hell is he suppose to chain throw me if I'm "spamming"? Shouldn't my main objective be running away from him if I'm spamming? Small stage is one thing but even then...

 

[Smasher89]

wavejab do grab, or just wavesmash is the way to go, the matchup shouldn´t be that hard...

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

if link spams say F that and find a way to grab

 

[Kyu Puff]

wavejab do grab, or just wavesmash is the way to go, the matchup shouldn´t be that hard...

On a large stage maybe that's possible, but then you also have to deal with spam, and the fact that Link lives forever. Heavy, and sooo hard to edgeguard. Up+B hits through most of your moves, and lasts long enough that it's not possible to edgehog and roll unless you have invincibility. I've figured out that Ice Block can steal his hookshot, but any other attempt to guard his hookshot usually backfires.

On a small stage, he simply outprioritizes me. I have very little room to move, and even less because his legs are so huge. N-air, b-air, f-air, jab, f-tilt, and up+B all outprioritize almost anything the ICs have. It's easier to kill Link, but harder to maneuver around him.

That's why I had the best luck on Pokestad. It's medium-sized, and the ledges can mess up his recovery, so Link doesn't live as long. The platforms help get around projectile spam somewhat, and the stage is big enough to move around him. But on most stages (YS, DL64, BF...) I find the match-up pretty rough. :/

 

[Spife]

Careful on that hookshot inturruption. I am 99% sure I can just airdodge into your ice block and then airdodge again for the hook shot, or airdodge through the ice block. Or airdodge hook-shot for the ice block then up-b with a 3rd jump being the air dodge.
I never do that (I need to because it would work awesome).

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

use speed of desycing or ... something

 

[Kyu Puff]

I'll use the speed of desynching... '-.-

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

sorry he doesn't suck

 

[Spife]

sorry he doesn't suck

haha was this a compliment?

Kyu just wobble me once and then we make the deal where you never do that again and I stop going Link (in friendlies...where ice cream makes the meal)

 

[Finch]

Think about the matchup this way: ics have no decent combos against link except chaingrabs so just be really gay since he's gonna be really gay to you. If you land a jab at low percents just grab and cg rather than dsmash. idk how to edgeguard. Maybe nana blizzard so he has to sweetspot? I loved your bair out of shield punishes. Link has a lot of laggy moves to keep that up.

Also lambchops told me something amazing once: spacing counters spacing. Take from that what you will.

 

[Kyu Puff]

Thanks for the advice. :D

I mess up the timing of dtdair on heavier characters because of the awkward timing. Link isn't terribly hard to grab, though, so I'll focus more on cgs.

Maybe, desynch blizzard -> edgehog to cover both sweetspot and non-sweetspot?

Also lambchops told me something amazing once: spacing counters spacing. Take from that what you will.

I'm not sure what to take from that... spacing has always been a mystery to me.

 

[choknater]

Protip:

Your IC's are good, this Link just knows the matchup really well. What would help you the most is a stronger mindset. Keep in mind that IC's is a much better character than Link and has an easier time grabbing him than other characters. Don't play so cautiously and just be confident against characters you KNOW you have an advantage against. Just cuz he does well doesn't mean you should doubt IC's advantage over Link.

Just play with more confidence cuz I do see a lot of unnecessarily cautious playing.

Don't mess up cg's, I don't think Link can escape them.

 

[Kyu Puff]

Protip:

Your IC's are good, this Link just knows the matchup really well. What would help you the most is a stronger mindset. Keep in mind that IC's is a much better character than Link and has an easier time grabbing him than other characters. Don't play so cautiously and just be confident against characters you KNOW you have an advantage against. Just cuz he does well doesn't mean you should doubt IC's advantage over Link.

Just play with more confidence cuz I do see a lot of unnecessarily cautious playing.

Don't mess up cg's, I don't think Link can escape them.

Thanks for the advice, the mindset factor seems like it affects me a lot. I'm not confident at all when I play. :/

 

[KirbyKaze]

d-throw --> nana grab u-throw --> uair is not an acceptable combo although it looks cool

d-throw --> ***gotry is much better, efficient, and safer

 

[choknater]

Confidence gets you SO far. KDJ burst through the ranks with confidence alone (his idiotic unpredictable playstyle helped too, but you know what I mean.) Sometimes, when watching videos, you can just SEE when somebody is nervous. When they shield a lot, focus too much on spacing rather than attacking, and sometimes become idle, they are nervous.

Just stay calm and think simple positive thoughts, like "Hey, it's just Link. Who cares if he spams and combos me sometimes, I can take a stock from him if I grab him." or something to that effect.

d-throw --> nana grab u-throw --> uair is not an acceptable combo although it looks cool

d-throw --> ***gotry is much better, efficient, and safer

Hey man, any combo that "looks cook" is totally acceptable. In fact, more acceptable than anything else. Check the sig baby

 

[Spife]

how to help confidence?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Hey man, any combo that "looks cook" is totally acceptable. In fact, more acceptable than anything else. Check the sig baby

Being efficient is smash is totally overrated, I now see the error of my ways. Flashiness is much more important.

I mean, efficiency might earn you money and give you useful insight into other weaknesses in your game, but looking cool is amazing and just more acceptable as a whole.

 

[choknater]

Exactly. Now you're gettin' it.

Starfire is hot btw

 

[KirbyKaze]

I really like the pic of her in my sig, I have to remember to thank Afro_Chris for making it amazingly sexual and cool.

Green laser hands ftw. Plus boobies.

 

[Stos]

I really like the pic of her in my sig, I have to remember to thank Afro_Chris for making it amazingly sexual and cool.

Green laser hands ftw. Plus boobies.

i still dont know why you dropped IC's we havent had a Link vs. IC's in a loong time =(

IC's CHAIN GRAB.

Spoiler

i know nothing about IC's

 

[KirbyKaze]

Because Sheik is better.

 

[Kyu Puff]

It doesn't matter who is better, only who is flashier.

 

[Spife]

It doesn't matter who is better, only who is flashier.

That's why Old GERM > Aniki >.>

 

[KirbyKaze]

I can do most of soap's needle stuff.

So I can be pretty flashy when demanded.

I can also pivot jump blizzard/ice block desynch with IC and do the edge chain grab on Fox and Marth (everyone else I didn't bother learning so I just do it lazy and alternate F-throws and eventually wobble).

Being flashy is fairly easy with IC, just do ********-looking stuff and be crisp with your wavelanding.

 

[Kyu Puff]

And so why did you drop ICs?

I need to start being flashier in my recorded matches, I used to alt grab and pivot jump all the time. x.x

 

[choknater]

omg the edge chaingrab is hard for me but hopefully if i tried again, i can do it esp. since i play brawl ic's now and have a better feel for continuous grabs

 

[Kyu Puff]

Actually, the brawl infinite made it impossible for me to edge cg in melee.

I found the edge combo easiest to learn on Fox/Falco, and then after the timing became muscle memory, I was able to learn the d-throw length for other characters. Heavy characters are also easy, because you have plenty of time to react after the d-throw.

 

[Kyu Puff]

I recorded some videos on tuesday...

Kyu (ICs) vs. Roman (Falco) on YS <-- lots of u-tilt in this one
Kyu (ICs) vs. Roman (Falco) on FD
Kyu (ICs) vs. Roman (Falco) on YS

Please critique. I'm better against falco than against link.

 

[GOD!]

I watched the first match on ys.

I would say move more, after every wavedash you have your shield still up, and that slows you down a lot. Definitely work on the chaingrab as well that you tried to do, and you can hold link in your grab alittle longer. And against someone with link's range, sh bair isn't a really great option, cause you are still in the air after his shield stun is finished.

2:18 should have been a dthrow to usmash or fsmash. He would have died so fast. Also, if you waveland everything you will have less lag. That might be asking a lot though.

And link vs. ics doesn't have many good edgeguarding options. for you. charged dsmash tends to end up with you being up b'd by link. and you don't try and dash-dance too much either in the video, which might have helped some of your set-ups.

Now the first falco vid:

My first impression was you were rolling or in your shild the entire first stock. Several times I saw (0:31, 0:27) you had a grab opening which you didn't take. He was going after Nana and you could have used that to help you. While he is pillaring her, get under him and uair. And staying on the ground vs falco is smart cause of his dair and bair.

Your movement was also better when it got to 1v1. I personally would never charge a smash as an edgeguard vs falco cause he has too many options. I would actually not do that against anybody, unless I was marth.

Good win, you def took him in the air after the first stock and beat him. I would say grab more, cause ICs grabs are more deadly than smashes.

Hope this helps..

 

[Binx]

The only mistake I really see that glares at me is you are very predictable off the edge, also you edgeguard poorly, it's not that you miss edgeguards that are easy, its that you go for edgeguards that won't work and then get hit because you don't space far enough from the ledge.

Falco can be tough to keep under pressure once he grabs the ledge because he has so many good options for returning to the stage, he can waveland, double laser, drill, of jump up and waveland backwards off for another jump like you see falcon's doing, this makes it very hard to predict him as all 4 options can be very powerful. I personally just stay far enough away to jump over the double lasers with a fair or not be hit by any of the others.

You make some minor spacing mistakes and there are several times I see you use smash attacks when a grab or fair might be more effective. Over all though you seem pretty fluid and confident, you also have very good spacing with your utilts from what I saw, and I might actually use more of them against him because you were spaced well for it often, although make sure and use it sparingly vs players you can't read as well.

Also I'm sure you know this, but quit using fairs when he is invincible, you gain no benefit baiting when he can't be punished, just mix up your wavedashes and shields, stay on the ground for 2 seconds until he can be hit, then bait. Against falco I like to use more dash attacks than I saw because the laser will often only stop 1 climber, of course this is only effective at fairly close range and medium percents as he can easily crouch cancel into shine combos vs whichever climber hits him.

Also I see a lot of up throws at percents he can recover from them, I would use backthrow or downthrow vs fast fallers at medium to higher percents for the chance a tech chase smash, in fact I would use a back or downthrow at any percent vs a fast faller.

 

[Sleepy]

when I watched your link matches, I had a feeling you didn't lightshield and wd correct distances. Some time forcing them out could be better, also some wavejab dsmash could help in your game. A lot of times you worried about nana a lot more than yourself and ended up getting hit with upb's too. If you can't save nana, improve your sopo game until you can. Yeah and the waveshield thing is good, but remember to let go of your shield button asap after the wd if you don't intend to shield again. This is based off the link videos, not the falco.

I'm not sure if I can say anymore, I know I caught this thread kinda late. Watching your falco video I can see you probably have come a lot further than before.

 

[Binx]

that falco tends to crouch a lot of your grabs, maybe try using more forward tilt, I'm not sure at what percent it knocks him over but he likely won't expect it.

 

[Wobbles]

Apparently there are some recent videos of me up now as well:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6377678#post6377678

You can even see my crappy Sheik in teams

 

[skribble]

whoaa amazing stuff, wobbles!

what kind of desync was that on 4th match, 3:40? cool stuff. :D

 

[S.D]

D throw D smash works on Link

Kyu don't be so rushy with ur CG. Vs that Falco u were trying to blizzard too soon, take your time. I like your Climbers though

 

[Kyu Puff]

D throw D smash works on Link

Kyu don't be so rushy with ur CG. Vs that Falco u were trying to blizzard too soon, take your time. I like your Climbers though

Thanks, that's great to know. :D Since the Link videos I've gotten more consistent at d-throw d-air on heavy chars, but Link can escape quickly anyways. And yeah... honestly my grab game vs. spacies is good, no idea what happened in these vids. :/

 

[#HBC | Mac]

kyu, set up the vcr for tomorrow.