VGBootCamp: Regarding Project M

[Thor]

Ignorant, if I do say so myself. PM has done so much for the fans, much more than Nintendo could ever do with Smash.

Did you know there's this great group of people did the most for the Smash scene ever? They produced Super Smash Brothers, and they're named Nintendo.

Never forget that if they hadn't made Melee in the first place, PM may have never come into existence. What if Sakurai had made airdodge landing lag more/different in Melee? What if there never was directional airdodging? What if they saw the offensive applications of L-cancelling and removed it [it was designed to allow one to shield after using an aerial more quickly]?

We'll [almost certainly] never know, but to assert that PM has done more than Nintendo is absurd at its core... they gave people the golden image everyone upholds [like it or not], and also the basis for creating PM when they made Brawl [how long would it've taken to mod Brawl if the stage builder wasn't flawed in the ways it was?]

GIMR is doing the entire community a HUGE favor by avoiding any potential legal disputes. Sure, VGBC won't stream it, but other people will (both the local scenes I've been a part of have no plans to stop streaming and uploading PM matches).

The worst that could come of this is if PM is not held at any majors at all, and I find it highly unlikely that it won't be at them in some form or another. Maybe someone else has to record and upload them and they can't be streamed, but I think PM will live on, quite possibly because of the decision to avoid any source of friction with Nintendo instead of in spite of it.

 

[GaMeR N1CK]

You're right. It's GimR's decision. Nintendo hasn't explicitly done anything yet. But this sounds an awful lot like GimR was given very good reason to fear streaming PM, and I don't think he'd abandon it on a whim.

i dont blame GimR, im just thinking this was a strained decision dealing with nintendo

Wrong. Read the terms and agreements for the wii agrculture why don't ya. Hacking you wii or forcing any form of unintended data into your wii. is illegal that was agreed apon by every single person who booted up there wii and set it up.
Also breaking a warrenty is also illegal as well.

modifying your wii isnt illegal unless you pirate games or make it into a weapon (not sure what but ya know).it does break the warranty and does allow nintendo to deny any online services on it. the only thing that does matter is copyright, like pirating games.

 

[Wise Multishine]

CopyWRIGHT?


I see what you did there

That probably isn't intentional. Including all the glaring grammatical errors. Stay in school, kids.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

CopyWRIGHT?


I see what you did there

Yeah baby glad ya caught that.

*this is just my crappy attempt to cover up my spelling error Xd*

 

[jerry121212]

No Xanadu PM stream </3

Don't worry, the S@X PM stream is being taken over by a channel called umdsmash =]

 

[Road Death Wheel]

i dont blame GimR, im just thinking this was a strained decision dealing with nintendo

modifying your wii isnt illegal unless you pirate games or make it into a weapon (not sure what but ya know).it does break the warranty and does allow nintendo to deny any online services on it. the only thing that does matter is copyright, like pirating games.

A weapon? holy balls i would pay for that.
i hyper charged wii gun that shoots shovel ware disks at high velosity cutting through steel like butter. *drools*

 

[SevereScreamo]

It's Nintendo who's doing the intervening. The PMDT isn't claiming ownership to jack ****. PM is just a mod, an altered version of Brawl. Nothing in it belongs to them, and they'd be stupid to even act like it did. I don't know why PM of all mods in the world has to be the one targeted so fiercely. For Christ's sake, who is this mod harming? If anything, it gives people a reason to buy Brawl, or even Melee which owns most of the inspiration of mechanics.

I did not say the PM Team was claiming ownership I was clarifying the fact that they do not have ownership and they are using Nintendo's properties without their permission and PM Team has no right to do that also Nintendo is no longer producing Melee anymore so if you buy a copy of Melee it's probably used and Nintendo sees no money from that same goes for brawl. Also mods can be harmful they can screw up consoles and allow people to steal games obviously we all know PM is not a mod like that and is only good and there to enhance are experience of a already good game but Nintendo is to large of a company and has to many other priorities to differentiate what mods are harmful and what mods are not so they make an easy to follow rule like no mods. The solution for PM is easily visible and the solution is to build their own original fighter from the ground up like other fighters like skull girls but in the vein of SSBM that is the way to make it so their game is 100% legal and streamable. I may have a reason for why PM is targeted so closely also the reason is that PM is a very commercial mod having things like its own site its own competitive scene, its own logo, trailers,versions, updates, hype, etc... Long story shot PM is an awesome huge and popular mod so it's easier for a big company like Nintendo to see and to hear about unlike small mods and alt costume packs that are small and not so popular. Hope that clarifies things also could we refrain from using foul language and stay civil.

 

[Johnknight1]

GimR making this move is a no brainer, but it just sucks because your roots as a streamer are with Project M. That's how you got big, that's where #FreeGIMR came from, Project M is legitimately your roots. What it looks like to a lot of Project M fans is that you're bailing on your foundation when they're in a tough spot in order to establish/save your own business. A lot of your fans gave you money because they wanted your Project M content.

Again, I get it, but it just sucks to see it happen.

This is all that needs to be said.

All other comments should be closed and this one should be permanently placed at the top.

 

[GaMeR N1CK]

A weapon? holy balls i would pay for that.
i hyper charged wii gun that shoots shovel ware disks at high velosity cutting through steel like butter. *drools*

right?

 

[SevereScreamo]

I love all the sudden legal experts that pop up and somehow ignore the Game Genie vs Nitendo case that Nintendo lost had to compensate millions for, and also do not know what fair use is.

Gotta love nintendrones- they happen to be lawyers (who somehow still do not know the basics of law) right when convenient!

Game genie and PM are far different beasts but nice I like the research A+ less name calling next time.

 

[Morbi]

"Oh, no. Nintendo might put a strike on our channel even though they have not yet done so and we might face direct legal action even though a copyright strike is not direct legal action! It was never a fear of ours until Apex, of course. However, that rumor was unfounded. The timing was/is a coincidence, that is all."

Sarcasm aside, it makes me wonder if Nintendo did give them a heads up though.

 

[TheOnlyGBeast]

lol @ the PM purists defending, not realizing legal things

PM had nothing to do with VGBC's expansion

 

[Lixus]

While I understand that it was a business decision, I can't fully understand the cut on PM, could it not be classified as a fan project? in which case... wouldn't it fall under the "Nintendo porperties can be fully used for FAN Projects" thing?

 

[MegaMissingno]

Cute.

I don't think screwing over Melee or Smash 4 is worth it for PM. Support is better in the long run if PM has to stay grassroots and not in the spotlight.

It's what happens when your game using someone else's work as a baseline.

But you do think screwing over PM is worth it for Melee/Smash 4? I get it, it's only bad when it happens to your game.

Besides, how is keeping the old status quo screwing over Melee or Smash 4 exactly?

 

[MagnesD3]

He's only saying best since all his cut characters are in that game, but he'll be too blinded by that fact alone.

Please it has the best gameplay too lol. Smash 4 sucks for more reasons than its roster.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

But you do think screwing over PM is worth it for Melee/Smash 4? I get it, it's only bad when it happens to your game.

Besides, how is keeping the old status quo screwing over Melee or Smash 4 exactly?

Yes it is, not because it is not my main game but because PM is inherently a mod with legal issues.

 

[GaMeR N1CK]

But you do think screwing over PM is worth it for Melee/Smash 4? I get it, it's only bad when it happens to your game.

Besides, how is keeping the old status quo screwing over Melee or Smash 4 exactly?

Youre making it sound like you play smash bros for the soul purpose of PM. I am disappointed (deeply ) in the wall for growing the PM community too.

 

[GaMeR N1CK]

Yes it is, not because it is not my main game but because PM is inherently a mod with legal issues.

PM isnt illegal, ya know?

 

[SevereScreamo]

I really hope this leads to the PM team making their own from the ground up fighting game with their own characters but in the same style as smash brothers that would be really cool Id donate with kickstarter for something like that after all isn't that what skull girls did but creating their own traditional fighting game

 

[MagnesD3]

Yes it is, not because it is not my main game but because PM is inherently a mod with legal issues.

Im know if it was your main game you would 100% be singing a different tune. There is 5 communities and its pretty clear the smash community will never be combined into one at this rate of inequality.

 

[Morbi]

Yes it is, not because it is not my main game but because PM is inherently a mod with legal issues.

Which legal issues are you alluding to? The article itself asserts that Vgbootcamp is discontinuing support of Project M preemptively to prevent potential copyright strikes... which Nintendo could issue for any of there games, really.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

PM isnt illegal, ya know?

It actually is on a number of levels, even more so if someone makes a profit off of it in some shape or form.

It's game is modifying code from someone else to make it's game function and is using character that may or may not have agreed to be o
Put in there.

Omni put it the best honestly in his recent video.

 

[Venom_909]

Someone needs to compile a list of all the other PM streams for this online PM community to see streams from. Since most of them only know of VGBC.

Pretty sure we are going to make a PM STREAM FACEBOOK GROUP. one stop shop to find all the streams going on and sticky posts for events / streams coming up / time slots

 

[GaMeR N1CK]

1.)this is a FREE modification that will only work with a copy of Super Smash Bros. Brawl
2.)the only time it is illegal is when someone pirates the game to play PM
3.)it only breaks the warranty laws, not the copyright

 

[SevereScreamo]

Which legal issues are you alluding to? The article itself asserts that Vgbootcamp is discontinuing support of Project M preemptively to prevent potential copyright strikes... which Nintendo could issue for any of there games, really.

Nintendo could give VGBC a copyright strike for any main series smash games but they are less likely to because Nintendo now just runs their own ads over videos with their copyrighted content and or collects the ad revenue but you can become a partner with Nintendo and get a cut of the ad revenue basically sharing it with Nintendo I'm guessing GimR wants to partner with Nintendo, and having PM on his channel and promoting modding would put his potential partnership with Nintendo in jeopardy.

 

[Morbi]

It actually is on a number of levels, even more so if someone makes a profit off of it in some shape or form.

It's game is modifying code from someone else to make it's game function and is using character that may or may not have agreed to be o
Put in there.

Omni put it the best honestly in his recent video.

Making money off of Project M is as illegal as making money off Melee. However, the difference is that Melee promotes Nintendo and Project M does not. Project M in and of itself is not "illegal." Making money off it is. But again, same can be said for Melee which is why Nintendo did not want it streamed at EVO. They enacted their right to remove it from the stream, but they changed their minds, obviously.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Im know if it was your main game you would 100% be singing a different tune. There is 5 communities and its pretty clear the smash community will never be combined into one at this rate of inequality.

No I wouldn't. I would accept it because I can tell what I mod is and the issues behind it.

That's also why I never made it my main game in the first place.

 

[Lord Horatio]

I can't believe this; PM was the chance to have a fresh smash game with good tech and an evolving meta. Why does Nintendo do this to us? Why can't they change their policy?

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I can't believe this; PM was the chance to have a fresh smash game with good tech and an evolving meta. Why does Nintendo do this to us? Why can't they change their policy?

The **** does Nintendo got to do with this? LOL

 

[GaMeR N1CK]

No I wouldn't. I would accept it because I can tell what I mod is and the issues behind it.

That's also why I never made it my main game in the first place.

please read my last post, forgot to quote you

 

[Morbi]

I can't believe this; PM was the chance to have a fresh smash game with good tech and an evolving meta. Why does Nintendo do this to us? Why can't they change their policy?

Nintendo has nothing to do with this at the moment. This is 100% Vgbootcamp.

 

[RIP|Merrick]

I will always support every Smash game in the series for their varying gameplay (including Project M), the Project M team for their amazing modding talents into making a fresh Smash experience, and VGBC for their decision regarding the unfortunate, but expected dropping of PM from their stream. I will never, however, support the vile, toxic filth I've seen far too many "fans" spout regarding this. No way. As a fan of Project M myself, this is so disappointing once again on so many levels for me to be a part of something that leaves such a disgusting taste in my mouth, ugh. You're all acting as if VGBC, while one of the biggest streamers for Project M content at the time, is the ONLY source of tournament footage of the mod.

Keep it classy guys.

 

[Berble]

That doesn't change the fact that it IS what happened, though.

how did he "take their money and turn his back?"
they subbed by choice knowing that their game is in a strange legal area and knowing that nintendo was getting involved with the scene more. pm players had to know that their game eventually couldn't be esports and main stream because of the legal issues. gimr isn't "turning his back" he has no choice

I'm sure he didn't plan on doing it, but he did do it.

what do you want him to do? keep streaming and uploading pm and put all his other work at risk? he even said that the videos would be relocated to a new place so he's clearly not "turning his back" on pm

 

[SevereScreamo]

I can't believe this; PM was the chance to have a fresh smash game with good tech and an evolving meta. Why does Nintendo do this to us? Why can't they change their policy?

PM is still there no one is taking it away it is just not a part of VGBC's streaming schedule and archives anymore, but stay positive maybe this will push PM's team to make a full game even better than PM with less limitations and more optimized for what competitive smashers want. Stay positive

 

[GaMeR N1CK]

PM is still there no one is taking it away it is just not a part of VGBC's streaming schedule and archives anymore, but stay positive maybe this will push PM's team to make a full game even better than PM with less limitations and more optimized for what competitive smashers want. Stay positive

then its not smash bros...

 

[SevereScreamo]

then its not smash bros...

Well do you like the name or the game?

 

[Morbi]

how did he "take their money and turn his back?"
they subbed by choice knowing that their game is in a strange legal area and knowing that nintendo was getting involved with the scene more. pm players had to know that their game eventually couldn't be esports and main stream because of the legal issues. gimr isn't "turning his back" he has no choice

what do you want him to do? keep streaming and uploading pm and put all his other work at risk? he even said that the videos would be relocated to a new place so he's clearly not "turning his back" on pm

He does have the choice to give them a refund, but again, not going to happen. It is clear that this is being treated as a business first and foremost. I am not suggesting that that is a bad thing, to be clear. I am just stating the obvious.

If people subscribed for the implicit obligation of Vgbootcamp to continue streaming the game that they subscribed for, they are going to accuse Gimr of taking their money and running.

 

[toro194]

Pretty sure we are going to make a PM STREAM FACEBOOK GROUP. one stop shop to find all the streams going on and sticky posts for events / streams coming up / time slots

Kreygasm. I support where do i join

 

[GaMeR N1CK]

Well do you like the name or the game?

the fighting game where im able to play as Fox McCloud and Luigi

 

[[;)]]

Hey guys,

As you might have noticed, we've been toning down our Project M coverage in recent months. With the release of Smash 4 and the continued revitalization of the Melee scene, there are more content opportunities now than ever. These recent opportunities have vaulted VGBC into the spotlight, but in some ways this has come at a cost.

As it stands now, Project M exists in a legal gray area. Project M's uncertain legality has the potential to put the other goals of VGBC for the wider Smash community in jeopardy. We are working on securing partnerships that will allow us to grow the community faster than ever before with new shows, tournaments, and other content. 2015 will be another crazy year for Smash, and as a small business with limited resources, it's too risky to invest a significant portion of our time and money into a game that could damage our business with a copyright strike at any time.

VGBC will no longer be streaming Project M​

The more visible PM becomes, and the closer VGBC is associated with PM, the higher the likelihood we face more direct legal action. Given this, we will no longer be streaming PM content for the foreseeable future.We will also be taking down our PM content from YouTube. Don't worry - these videos will not be destroyed. We are working on an arrangement that will see them relocated to a new home.


In regards to the #FreeGimR movement, we do understand that a large portion of our initial #FreeGimR subs were not only fans of VGBC, but fans of Project M. If you are a sub, please check your private messages. We will be sending you a personal message soon.

We would like to thank the PMDT for an amazing relationship and for working so closely with us over the past two years. It's rare and exciting to work with people who are as passionate about Smash as we are. Making a living creating content around a game we've loved for well over a decade has been an incredible and humbling experience. This is the first time we've had to make such a hard decision, but in order to continue doing what we love we have to protect ourselves legally.

- Calvin “GimR” Lofton

PS: We were not presented with any Project M termination contract from Team Apex. That rumor is unfounded and has no part in our decision to discontinue Project M streaming and content.

Wow this hurts. Of course this is the right thing to do and I respect that. I'm proud of you and everyone else at vgbc and I wish you all the best with melee and smash 4. I hope to see more smash 64