Update Get: Mega Man Patch 1.11 Changes

[Mega-Spider]

Hey guys. Now that the new patch has been released, Mega Man probably got some changes. According to the Reddit thread discussing this change: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3mxnip/balance_patch_discussion/ it says that Mega Man's Hyper Bomb comes out 5 frames faster, and Ice Slasher comes out 6 frames faster. Beyond that, there doesn't seem to be any changes. Maybe there are changes and people haven't found them yet. Discuss your findings here!

 

[ShiroSSB]

The placebo game is strong.

 

[Sorichuudo]

According to that thread, only change to The Rock was those two customs. Doesn't seem to do much for us, but at least we got a buff that wasn't some small change to Leaf Shield, so that's a baby step in the right direction.

Considering the information on this thread http://smashboards.com/threads/magical-engimatic-land-1-1-1-patch-notes.419067/ is from data mining, i guess there really aren't any more changes right?

Other news, seems like The Green Mario got his dthrow nerfed, that will probably affect the MU. Seems like he can get dthrow> sweetspot up B at 0% for some free damage, but i don't think that is as bad as getting grabbed and outright killed out of a down B/bair(plus the actual Mario already gets free damage out of a grab at 0%, so it isn't something we are not used to).

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

Not much changed for anyone, bowser, samus, and Ike buffs notably.

Mostly customs were affected for most characters.

 

[smasher1001]

On a global scale, shield stun seems to be have buffed by roughly 3 frames on every move, more or less depending on some moves.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

Globally shield damage from getup attacks went down

 

[smasher1001]

yeah, shield damage went down on getup attacks as well as on some strong shied stun moves, due to them adding global sheidl stun that would force you to stay in shield long enough for your shield to end up broken, this is going to be an interesting patch.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

This may help out our shield break game and overall make shielding a less powerful option

 

[smasher1001]

It definitely makes running in and shielding more vulnerable and less safe as an agressive option, as they'll get more shield stun. this leads to it being safer to stay away entirely. Good for our megas spamming for sure.

 

[Sorichuudo]

This should be interesting, could be bad for us actually since Megaman is not exactly the most agressive character.

 

[smasher1001]

Well, it's bad up close once you're locked in shield, but is good for when you're throwing projectiles as it gives more time to get another projectile ready since they're in shieldstun.

 

[Sorichuudo]

I see.
Makes me wonder about crash bomber for shield pressure. Many times i have them put up their shield, hit them with a MB and a charge shot or some lemons, and their shield still wouldn't just by a little.

 

[p1ay6ack]

anyone try out crashbomb+(any of the smashes)+shieldcancel+ (any of the smashes) on shield? Maybe we can shield break easier now?

also, Ive noticed alot more power get more option selects now.ive been playiing on for glory, and im seeing alot more ppl doing this and powershielding

 

[juice.Zucco]

Just gonna leave this here. Seems like Upsmash is pretty bad for shield damage now, since you arent forced to block it fully anymore

 

[Sorichuudo]

Just gonna leave this here. Seems like Upsmash is pretty bad for shield damage now, since you arent forced to block it fully anymore

So the whole "can't roll or shield drop " thing doesn't apply to our usmash?
The opponent can always roll out of it?

 

[juice.Zucco]

So the whole "can't roll or shield drop " thing doesn't apply to our usmash?
The opponent can always roll out of it?

Seems like it. Dont really get why this move has less hitstun now

 

[Sorichuudo]

But they could always do that before right? With the changes to hitstun i thought all multihit moves would be the same as yoshi's dair, wich you cannot shield drop or roll out of it now: https://twitter.com/VGBC_GimR/status/649260067066351616

Are you saying they actually decreased hitstun on this move?

 

[BillNyeTheSamusGuy]

So does the global shieldstun change make lemons more effective? Do we have melee falco lasers now?

 

[~Burst~]

F smash has less shield stun and shield knock back maybe shield damage now too.
You can just drop shield instantly with almost no knock back on a fully charged f smash lmao.
Glad lucario can force you to shield aura sphere until your shield breaks,
https://twitter.com/_infrom_/status/649196617187246080?ref_src
Glad yoshi can just dair you and break your shield for free now. but we still can't force people to block all the crash bomb hits and all hits don't connect after the initial hit STILL.
Up smash still has dead frames so we can't cover the neutral ledge get up consistently and people can roll out when they block some of it? Character still lacks frame traps. What a joke.

 

[Mega-Spider]

F smash has less shield stun and shield knock back maybe shield damage now too.
You can just drop shield instantly with almost no knock back on a fully charged f smash lmao.
Glad lucario can force you to shield aura sphere until your shield breaks,
https://twitter.com/_infrom_/status/649196617187246080?ref_src
Glad yoshi can just dair you and break your shield for free now. but we still can't force people to block all the crash bomb hits and all hits don't connect after the initial hit STILL.
Up smash still has dead frames so we can't cover the neutral ledge get up consistently and people can roll out when they block some of it? Character still lacks frame traps. What a joke.

We don't get the best balances. We get next to nothing while Sheik still gets away scott free somehow. Whoever is running the balancing team needs to get a clue on what some characters need.

 

[ENKER]

Are these shield stun nerfs something the patch notes thread missed? I thought shield stun increased across the board... Am I not understanding something?

 

[smasher1001]

Yeah, I'm wondering if there is a seperate mechanic somehow nerfing projectiles with it, but i'd thought it was a universal shield stun INCREASE, not decrease.

 

[Lufos]

Did we really get nerfed shield stun? REALLY? If that's the case... idk what

 

[Sorichuudo]

Is there proof that Fsmash has less shield stun now, or is it just that it's the same as ever and it just wasn't affected by the shieldstun increase in this patch?

EDIT: I ask cause if it is true then it's odd that no one confirmed it yet, i cant test it cause i wanted to check the eshop so i updated my 3ds earlier today. If it always been like that, than it is probably that our projectiles and moves are just as weak as ever so the increase in shieldstun didn't do much for us.
Either way it sucks, but at least we get to look forward for the Yoshi MU, since he now has a shieldbreaker on steroids lmao.

 

[Lufos]

Im updating my game to check it out now... If its true I'd believe that the whole shield stun thing was an accident

 

[Sorichuudo]

Like, in Zucco's CB shield cancel guide, at the 3:00 mark: https://youtu.be/a60jMi9yfFE?t=180

You can see that even with the CB explosion, Doc is still able to block and roll away, so i think it's the same thing as the usmash test video above. Heck, look before the 3:00 mark for the shield pressure application part, usmash barely does any shield damage.

If it really is just the same as always(as well as lemons and Fsmash), then well, ye, we got the short end of the stick, no changes to us but considering most characters will be able to get something out of the shieldstun changes.

Doesn't sound good.

 

[Lufos]

Im not sure if its less than before, but its not a lot of shield stun, even on a fully charged fsmash... It really doesnt sound good and actually pisses me off.

 

[Sorichuudo]

Im not sure if its less than before, but its not a lot of shield stun, even on a fully charged fsmash... It really doesnt sound good and actually pisses me off.

Seems like only strong moves make any difference, wich is why it works for Yoshi's dair, the move was already strong to begin with. Someone in my facebook group tested Lucina's dancing blade, and you can still escape it as well, like with our usmash.
Not all is lost:

Seriously, spread this video like wild fire, at least we know is possible to escape this things.

Still sucks for us overall but oh well.
I am guessing Fair and Bair are still unsafe on shield even when spaced properly right?

 

[ENKER]

I asked about Usmash on the patch thread, does this make sense?

↑
Could someone help explain why Yoshi's Dair locks people in their shields while Mega Man's Usmash doesn't?
Usmash is a 4 frame loop. yoshi's dair is 2 frame loop.

If it does make sense, could someone explain it to me?

 

[Sorichuudo]

I asked about Usmash on the patch thread, does this make sense?

↑
Could someone help explain why Yoshi's Dair locks people in their shields while Mega Man's Usmash doesn't?
Usmash is a 4 frame loop. yoshi's dair is 2 frame loop.

If it does make sense, could someone explain it to me?

If you are asking if the way you typed the question makes sense, then yes, it does.

Edit: Oh, that was actually the response lol i'm dumb.

Then well, i don't get it, what does it means? Whats a frame loop, and why does a 2 frame loop traps people and a 4 frame doesnt?

 

[ENKER]

Ok, let me try again.

What is a frame loop and why is a frame loop of 4 not fast enough to lock people in shields? I don't know the math, but I'd like to!

Edit: Lol, dude, we double posted in a way. We're awesome?

 

[Mega-Spider]

Im not sure if its less than before, but its not a lot of shield stun, even on a fully charged fsmash... It really doesnt sound good and actually pisses me off.

I feel you, man. Being a Mega Man main is tough seeing as how we don't get benefitted from buffs because the balance team is too focused on buffing customs to see what the bigger picture is.

 

[Sorichuudo]

Ok, let me try again.

What is a frame loop and why is a frame loop of 4 not fast enough to lock people in shields? I don't know the math, but I'd like to!

Edit: Lol, dude, we double posted in a way. We're awesome?

Great minds think similar... and also don't know what frame loops are lol. I just went ahead and asked that in the thread anyways XD

 

[Sorichuudo]

ENKER
This was the answer i got, not sure if there are a few typos or some words i don't know but here it is:
"Minimum shields done(?) is to frame Sona(so on a?) to(two?) frame loop you can't let go shield before the Sun(stun?) is over in a four frame loop you can let go go before the next hit box comes out"

Is that the reason? Still don't get why it seems that pellets/lemons are still so weak against shields, both in damage and stun, since the change was supposed to be global and not just specific moves.

 

[ENKER]

That answer is hard to read, lol. It sounds like a frame loop of four is just too slow and you have just enough time to drop the shield and escape before the next hit from Usmash comes out?

 

[Sorichuudo]

That answer is hard to read, lol. It sounds like a frame loop of four is just too slow and you have just enough time to drop the shield and escape before the next hit from Usmash comes out?

I guess. Kinda embarassed to ask again and trying to google "frame loops" aint helping much lol

EDIT: Yeah, another person replied, it's pretty much that:
That means the time in-betwen hits is 2 frames for Yoshi Dair and 4 frames for Megaman Upsmash. That means Yoshi one hits TWICE as fast, the stun on each hit is higher than the time it takes for the next one to come out. In Megaman's case, being so slow, they only get stunned for 2-3 frames and can drop it in time to get hit in the 4th one by the next hit.

 

[ENKER]

Yeah, Googling wasn't helping me either!

Thanks for letting us know. That sucks.

 

[Drarky]

About the USmash nerf... are people really complaining? I mean it's rather pointless considering that a USmash on shield sucks no matter what, you shouldn't really be using it as an option unless you want the kill

And well, after playing around with the Bomber agaisn't some other players (Mostly a Rosa main)... I barely feel the changes in our overall moveset. I don't think that there is a necessity to enter in panic mode and call this an overall nerf to Mega, it could easily be just a mix of both good and bad stuff, with the final result being MAYBE an overall buff/nerf.

And btw, I really want customs back, those Ice Slasher+Hyper Bomb buffs were pretty on point.

 

[---]

Hyper Bomb got a 2% damage buff in addition to the 5 end frame decrease.

Honestly our board might as well be fighting for legal customs just as much as the Mii/Palutena boards given how much creative potential we have in such an environment.

About the USmash nerf... are people really complaining? I mean it's rather pointless considering that a USmash on shield sucks no matter what, you shouldn't really be using it as an option unless you want the kill

And well, after playing around with the Bomber agaisn't some other players (Mostly a Rosa main)... I barely feel the changes in our overall moveset. I don't think that there is a necessity to enter in panic mode and call this an overall nerf to Mega, it could easily be just a mix of both good and bad stuff, with the final result being MAYBE an overall buff/nerf.

And btw, I really want customs back, those Ice Slasher+Hyper Bomb buffs were pretty on point.

Personally I'm still sore that Mewtwo's Up-Smash doesn't have a disjoint beyond the first couple frames. I can live with a punish, but I can't live with wiffing when the opponent can overlap me.

Kind of surprised how customs have been mostly dead recently despite the positive reception to them at EVO.

 

[ENKER]

Yeah man, customs hype!

I already said this on my Hyper Bomb thread, but I'm pretty sure HB's speed in the air is faster because I can no longer catch it by throwing it diagonally up from the ground and dash attacking into its flight path. It now moves too fast to pull this off anymore. I used to catch it this way allllll the time pre-patch, so I'm pretty sure this isn't placebo.

Also, I'm psyched about HB's version of Z1gma Upper! I only labbed it up for a bit today, but I plan on doing some more soon! I'd love some help!