Undertale Mafia, 13 man! Game over! Town wins!

[#HBC | Kary]

#2 - he's the least suspicious player alive toDay by PoE. I don't know who else I'd call solid town at this point. Ran and Ryu are my top scum picks, Sang / Dietz would both make some sense as a 3rd buddy. That leaves him and you and you've been on the wrong side of things a lot. Not sure what to make of that atm but Chibo's the only slot I can't hold anything against.

#3 - uh what. I don't even mention your name once in that post. I don't think you're scum though.

#2 Chibo's the least active player alive. How does that translate to a townread?

#3. I asked you a question in my post but instead you picked out another part of it to reply to- which says to me that your priority is trying to put forward an idea or argument. Not sure what to make of that yet.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Sang, assuming you're right about Kary and Dietz, who'd be the 3rd mafioso in your opinion?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

As to my opinions on Gheb, I have him on my "slightly leaning town" list right now. There were some things I didn't like about his D1 play but I started liking him more D2, despite his J push. Gheb being on both wagons doesn't have much tell, honestly.

You say 'despite his J push' yet to me Gheb's D2 play was almost exclusively a J push. What was it about his play that you liked- were there specific posts?

 

[ranmaru]

I ask myself why I am responding to this when we both know you won't listen. You expect me to have a strong stance on J when all the time J has been avoiding things, and then busy trying to make me a target (rather than discussing things). You call my push on soup opportunistic but people agree that his play was scummy and I have said what I disliked about it. If I was really trying to take advantage of Rake, wouldn't I just be pushing for his lynch? It would be a lot easier than J. I don't think you are thinking this read through, amigo. I think you just trust J too much.

Here's a better question, why is J town? This:



Is not a good enough reason.

Kary, I did say that some of the things you were saying were coming across as townie. Especially your #944. ^ Then I went to re-read a bit because really, my town read on J was weak. It was only a slight town read. Like I said, J as scum has interacted weirdly with me (having me as null first, then turning on me when he had the chance) and I thought that was happening there. I also did not like that he waited until his near death to push Rake, that was what kept me on him. I did not want to help him because he was letting me push Rake on the side when he was pushing for you. I also did not like that he said he was being stubborn on being on him but then didn't really follow through as much, and his catch up wasn't really, finished. I was also trying to re-evaluate my reads. I think I would have an easier time if Gheb was lynched, as I think he is the scummiest here. His turn on me is opportunistic, when he had me as his 'highest' town read. He did not have a problem with me switching yestErday, and he said he didn't care who he wagon with, and is now trying to apply that rule to myself. Obviously it's a big mistake that I will have to discuss but he makes it seem like I am trying to ignore it when I accuse him, when that is not the case.

Plus, what possible scum reason can you find from me switching from town rake to town j? Why not just join in on J at the beginning of the day? I don't think I said much about him D1. Tell me why I would do this as scum. This goes to Gheb as well.

 

[ranmaru]

I targeted Gheb. This time got flavor about me being a magician before it failing. That's it.

 

[ranmaru]

Gheb being on both wagons doesn't have much tell, honestly.

Please elaborate.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Kary, I did say that some of the things you were saying were coming across as townie. Especially your #944. ^ Then I went to re-read a bit because really, my town read on J was weak. It was only a slight town read. Like I said, J as scum has interacted weirdly with me (having me as null first, then turning on me when he had the chance) and I thought that was happening there. I also did not like that he waited until his near death to push Rake, that was what kept me on him. I did not want to help him because he was letting me push Rake on the side when he was pushing for you. I also did not like that he said he was being stubborn on being on him but then didn't really follow through as much, and his catch up wasn't really, finished. I was also trying to re-evaluate my reads. I think I would have an easier time if Gheb was lynched, as I think he is the scummiest here. His turn on me is opportunistic, when he had me as his 'highest' town read. He did not have a problem with me switching yestErday, and he said he didn't care who he wagon with, and is now trying to apply that rule to myself. Obviously it's a big mistake that I will have to discuss but he makes it seem like I am trying to ignore it when I accuse him, when that is not the case.

Plus, what possible scum reason can you find from me switching from town rake to town j? Why not just join in on J at the beginning of the day? I don't think I said much about him D1. Tell me why I would do this as scum. This goes to Gheb as well.

you're lying

 

[ranmaru]

nope 10char

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Gheb, can you talk to me a bit more about your Ryu read? Why do you think that he's scum? Also, talking about keeping options open, I find it interesting that you have listed 4/7 people that are likely to be scum. One town is you, and you say that Kary is town as well as Chibo, even though Chibo has hardly been in here. Why? Specifically, why do you think Chibo is top town?

re: Ryu:
The content he provided is pretty much inactive-tier, except that Ryu isn't actually an inactive player. He's actively posted empty content and that's pretty much the worst thing somebody can do in a mafia game. I read stuff from D2 and what he said virtually amounts to nothing, he could've just not post at all to the same results.

And really, do I really need to lose a lot of words on how spineless his jump on the J wagon was? Just look at last ~3 or 5 pages and tell me that **** doesn't reek. It's really disgusting.


re: keeping opinions open:
Depends on the situation. We're almost certainly in lylo. Not keeping options open and considering everything is straight-up foolish. That's an entirely different thing than sitting on the fence and not taking hard stances for pretty much the whole game. I don't think it's arguable that it's what you've been doing, I'd in fact be surprised if you tried to tell me that you have. Did I do that though? I've pretty much put my entire reputation at stake with my J push and my strict opposition to a Kary lynch yesterDay. I don't think you can accuse me of keeping options open, I just don't wanna blow this right now by tunneling one thing and disregard the rest.


re: Chibo:
Again PoE. This may not be terribly convincing to you ... but I don't really care at the moment.

#3. I asked you a question in my post but instead you picked out another part of it to reply to- which says to me that your priority is trying to put forward an idea or argument. Not sure what to make of that yet.

Because it's lylo, because I think Ran's scum and therefore people need to be convinced to lynch him? Just because you asked me a specific question [which I actually responded to anyway] doesn't mean I can't pick out other points from your posts. If it were some trivial matter I could see why you'd think so but in case you didn't notice yet I'm kinda trying to get Ran lynched and that's hardly something I consider trivial.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

nope 10char

why Gheb?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

We're almost certainly in lylo.

What do you think of a mass claim toDay?

I could see why you'd think so but in case you didn't notice yet I'm kinda trying to get Ran lynched and that's hardly something I consider trivial.

Can you point to a post from Ran you consider the scummiest?

 

[ranmaru]

The dude has not been trying to lynch people with confidence until ToDay. Everytime I asked him about Rake, who he defended, he answered with 'he can die'. He's been playing safe the whole game. I'll say more when I get back from the bank. At least look at my first 3 points in my case.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

You say 'despite his J push' yet to me Gheb's D2 play was almost exclusively a J push.

Just a quick note here: the J push was a good 75% of what happened yesterDay [the other 25% being the bitchfight between J and you] so even if I had wanted it to be any other way the game simply wouldn't allow for anything else to happen. So what you seem to imply as me going into full tunnel-mode against J is really more a case of nobody else doing ... anything. The J push was my baby and I'll stand by it, had anybody else brought something worthwhile to do table I would've commented on something else ... but as things stand I *could* not comment on anything else, because there was no such thin as 'anything else' going on.

He did not have a problem with me switching yestErday, and he said he didn't care who he wagon with[...]

This is such BS though.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

What do you think of a mass claim toDay?

I haven't really thought about it. We can go for it or not, I don't think a massclaim will either help or hurt us too much at this point.

Can you point to a post from Ran you consider the scummiest?

No but I'll show you string of posts that'll make it plain as day:
From: Post #970
To: Post #1022

Then:
#1032
and #1038
but especially #1040

Then from #1086 onwards he starts this massive backpedal where he's totally no accountable for J's mislynch anymore all of a sudden and it's of course it's upon him to look out for the scummy, scummy scumbags that are *actually* responsible for J's lynch - nevermind the fact that lynching Rake was an option that even I have somewhat encouraged and that Ran never followed through with his claim that he'd look into Kary the most upon J's townflip.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

EBWOP:

What do you think of a mass claim toDay?

I haven't really thought about it. We can go for it or not, I don't think a massclaim will either help or hurt us too much at this point.

Can you point to a post from Ran you consider the scummiest?

No but I'll show you string of posts that'll make it plain as day:
From: Post #970
To: Post #1022

Then:
#1032
and #1038
but especially #1040

Then from #1086 onwards he starts this massive backpedal where he's totally no accountable for J's mislynch anymore all of a sudden and it's of course it's upon him to look out for the scummy, scummy scumbags that are *actually* responsible for J's lynch - nevermind the fact that lynching Rake was an option that even I have somewhat encouraged and that Ran never followed through with his claim that he'd look into Kary the most upon J's townflip.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

The dude has not been trying to lynch people with confidence until ToDay. Everytime I asked him about Rake, who he defended, he answered with 'he can die'. He's been playing safe the whole game. I'll say more when I get back from the bank. At least look at my first 3 points in my case.

Who is scum with Gheb?

 

[ranmaru]

I'm thinking Chibo. Was down for j but wasn't around that much, and waited until hammer to speak. I townread Sang. JD slightly townish for the way he came in on J, seemed like he believed the push enough even though his reasoning was a stretch.

That's all I have. Plus Chibo's slot has pretty much lurked its way to D3 without any content, and we let it.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Why did Ran vote J again?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

re: Ryu:
The content he provided is pretty much inactive-tier, except that Ryu isn't actually an inactive player. He's actively posted empty content and that's pretty much the worst thing somebody can do in a mafia game. I read stuff from D2 and what he said virtually amounts to nothing, he could've just not post at all to the same results.

And really, do I really need to lose a lot of words on how spineless his jump on the J wagon was? Just look at last ~3 or 5 pages and tell me that **** doesn't reek. It's really disgusting.


re: keeping opinions open:
Depends on the situation. We're almost certainly in lylo. Not keeping options open and considering everything is straight-up foolish. That's an entirely different thing than sitting on the fence and not taking hard stances for pretty much the whole game. I don't think it's arguable that it's what you've been doing, I'd in fact be surprised if you tried to tell me that you have. Did I do that though? I've pretty much put my entire reputation at stake with my J push and my strict opposition to a Kary lynch yesterDay. I don't think you can accuse me of keeping options open, I just don't wanna blow this right now by tunneling one thing and disregard the rest.


re: Chibo:
Again PoE. This may not be terribly convincing to you ... but I don't really care at the moment.




Because it's lylo, because I think Ran's scum and therefore people need to be convinced to lynch him? Just because you asked me a specific question [which I actually responded to anyway] doesn't mean I can't pick out other points from your posts. If it were some trivial matter I could see why you'd think so but in case you didn't notice yet I'm kinda trying to get Ran lynched and that's hardly something I consider trivial.

Uhh what? I've given content that has been my content.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

BarDulL Can we get the current alive player list asap?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

nvm it's in the OP.

Alive
2. Sang
3. ChiboSempai
6. JDietz
7. Gheb
9. Red Ryu
10x. Kary
11x. Ranmaru

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Don't like Ran right now, mysteriously roleblocked again and his switch to J made me raise an eyebrow. It came out of left field.

I don't see why Gheb is town reading Chibo, that slot has some posts but I still consider it a toss up.

I don't think bad of Sang right now given what I recall, similar to Kary since I did think the J wagon was justified.

Dietz sticks out the same way Chibo does but that might be with the past content.

Ran>Chibo>Dietz

what I am feeling before I reread this game, I wouldn't endorse a mass claim unless someone has something they absolutely need to claim like a report that clears or condemns someone.

Gonna reread at some point tonight.

 

[Jdietz43]

Three sites had meltdowns today, so I'm not even going to try and pretend I have enough umph to re-read enough to sort out four flips. Especially not when both Rake and J flipped town.

EBWOP

Jdietz43 see above post.

Okay.

Rake [6] - Sang, Dietz, J, Koops, Kary Gheb
J [6] - Gheb, Kary, Rake, Dietz, RR, Ran

This is a line of enquiry I want to pursue. Dietz in particular seems to have done nothing but pop up to criticize slots that flipped town. @Dietz who is scum?

Pretty weak considering you're also on both lynches if that's the angle you're trying to play.

And clearly I have no idea since all my pushes are dead now. I'd be better off flipping a coin for an answer to that until I get to re-read to see whos playing who where on all these extra flips.


I'm very down with a mass claim for direction though.

 

[ranmaru]

Who is scum with Gheb?

I am switching Chibo with Ryu now. I thought maybe he has come to his senses yet has come back to the same 'stubborn' read on me, especially with his reasonless vote on J. I'm going to restate that D1 he came in saying my lynch was the best lynch but his wording and tone did not show that. He wasn't trying to find scum he was only trying to lynch my slot due to Soup's play, and not for having scum intent but for 'seeming scummy'.

Kary I don't get why you say I lie but you are asking too many questions and not giving opinions today. Thoughts on Ryu? Sang?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

[...]especially with his reasonless vote on J. I'm going to restate that D1 he came in saying my lynch was the best lynch but his wording and tone did not show that. He wasn't trying to find scum he was only trying to lynch my slot due to Soup's play, and not for having scum intent but for 'seeming scummy'.

Kary I don't get why you say I lie but you are asking too many questions and not giving opinions today. Thoughts on Ryu? Sang?

lol @ the bolded. You're the absolutely last person in this game to call out others for 'reasonless' votes on J.

You also didn't answer the question completely - who's scum with me? You only said you think Ryu and I are scum but there has to be at least one more scumbag. So again, who are more scummates according to you?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

@ChiboSempai

Start posting plz.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Pretty weak considering you're also on both lynches if that's the angle you're trying to play.

So you're suggesting I should look at myself before I look at you?

Pretty sick of you 'needing more time' to figure things out JD.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Lord, I love having a completely null inactive slot in endgame.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

So after looking through what people said about massclaiming today it seems like the majority of people who commented on it seem to be in favor or not against it ...

For: Ranmaru, Dietz
Doesn't matter / not against: Gheb
Against: Ryu

Kary, Sang and Chibo should chip in their 0.02$ asap so we know what the deal is.

 

[Jdietz43]

So you're suggesting I should look at myself before I look at you?

Pretty sick of you 'needing more time' to figure things out JD.

... yes that's definitely what I meant.

Chill Kary.

 

[Jdietz43]

Honestly I just want to lynch Ryu on gut so I can stop reading.

It's really hard to describe. It feels like he's just saying whatever at the screen in short bursts as he comes in without any real thought behind it. This on this page is a good example

Uhh what? I've given content that has been my content.

And this post has been in the back of my mind for awhile:

Stop lying you are scum.

It doesn't feel like something Ryu would naturally say in the situation.

@red Ryu: You're the only one against a massclaim today, why?



I'm also not feeling good about the fact that Sang's reasoning to dislike me boils down to "He was on the wrong wagons" and is a direct piggyback on Kary's post.

To the bolded, Dietz is what I was talking about when I said there was something I wanted to look into yesterDay, but I wanted either more info from him or another flip before I went into it more. It's at the point that I am no longer willing to wait for more information from him.

This is what I have found about JDietz, all of which make me believe that he is probably scum:

1) His history of voting and having suspicion on people have been people that have all flipped Town, besides one. He voted Kanty early D1 (note: this vote occurred following pressure from J for people reading Kanty as scum to vote him), and then unvoted him after Kanty's responses. He voted Rake and pushed Rake's wagon, and then disappeared for the rest of D1 (although he explained why D2). He indicates that he thinks that Spak, Soup, and Rake are likely scum. Although we don't know Ran's alignment, we know that Spak and Rake were Town. He then hops on the J wagon D2 although he stated no prior suspicion on J.
2) He hasn't really posted anything that is super telling of his reads, and he hasn't tried to scumhunt besides hopping on wagons and then disappearing after they get going (the thing that happened D1 happened again D2 with J's wagon, as he didn't come back to address anything following Kary and J's arguments). Even after re-reading his posts, I still can't tell what his reads really are because he uses very vague wording. Starting D2 he wanted to push Rake again, but then seemingly dropped that with no reason, and his saying that scum lies with the inactives allows him to make a non-answer (note: he again said he had suspicion of Koops, who also flipped Town).
​

Consider this me voting for JDietz. Kary, I still think you are likely scum, but I have a more solid read on JD right now.

As to my opinions on Gheb, I have him on my "slightly leaning town" list right now. There were some things I didn't like about his D1 play but I started liking him more D2, despite his J push. Gheb being on both wagons doesn't have much tell, honestly.

This post is hollow. Why is me being on every wagon (which for the record is a lame thing to harp on since literally every wagon in the game has been incorrect) bad, but at the end of the post in turn Gheb being on both wagons means nothing?

Where was this suspicion yesterday while we were playing? I have trouble believing that this post isn't filler entirely based on echoing what Kary said when he tipped his hand a bit into thread as to what his background thoughts were.

Is the fact that Kary agrees with the stance telling considering you're currently pushing Kary/Dietz?




@Everyone: Tell me why I should give an eff about RanmaruScum.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

BarDulL

Request pros.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

* prods

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Honestly I just want to lynch Ryu on gut so I can stop reading.

who's scum?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

~ Gheb ~ why are you certain that there's three scum?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Plus, what possible scum reason can you find from me switching from town rake to town j? Why not just join in on J at the beginning of the day? I don't think I said much about him D1. Tell me why I would do this as scum. This goes to Gheb as well.

With Gheb and Rake both on the J waggon, why did you not consider that me vs J might be TvT?

As scum you could have switched to J knowing that you could go back to me or Rake the next Day. I can understand your read on J changing but it seems very sudden to want to lynch him as well.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Because it's the only number that works with a 13-player setup.

 

[ranmaru]

Simply because my town read on J was weak originally and I was re-evaluating my reads at the time. Plus your debate wasn't helping me read either of you, as I said, nothing stuck out for me from it, yet each time you interacted with me it seemed townie. My natural intuition would lead me to drop my push on you, Kary, even if it gets me attention, as I don't care, I'd rather not take a part of someone I genuinely believe is town be lynched. Finally, having a third party flip again, did nothing for me or anyone else, it was made apparent by your debate because I could not see if your actions compared to yesterday because anyone (town or mafia) would join the lynch and have a ball. J's lynch actually provides a ton of info, actually. I think we should also consider those that stayed off the wagon. If there's two mafia, I would think one would get on and one would stay off.

 

[ranmaru]

Because it's the only number that works with a 13-player setup.

Yet you forget to consider the third party who doesn't count towards town majority. Does that not make it more likely there may be 2 instead of 3? Is this balanced?

 

[ranmaru]

He was and is the best lynch. If you said I wasn't too strong on it. You would be right. Sped up a reread the day before, soup's replace out and interaction with Joey looked terrible.

Soup has replaced out as scum to let his slot slide by before to use Ate. It was grimy then and I find it grimy here.

I don't care for what the slot has done at points and don't like how he handled pressure on himself. He also wants to replace out and would rather do it over a modkill if that were to happen.

Ran you asked me about Gheb don't agree he's been contributing at good points.

I think the best option for toDay is Ryu. His actions are easy to see through, and he has not been trying at all to find scum. His explanations are not believable, such as his Gheb opinion, because 'contributing' is not enough for someone to be read as town, yet he keeps it at that. I'm starting to town read JD more, and Sang less. Townreading Kary. My townread on Kary remains consistent so far. Chibo is null-scum.