Meta Two Sides of the Same Coin - Pit/ Dark Pit Meta Game Discussion

[Oniric Spriter]

From a 3 day perspective, Pit looks and feels amazing. I'm much more impressed with this character than I expected to be. This isn't really an informed/organized post, just ramblings that I'm typing out that I'm recalling from the past weekend.

Of course, his arrows were nerfed like we saw in the demo and they aren't that fun to use at all compared to Brawl/PM. No matter how useless it was, I'll miss arrow looping in this game (unless I use the custom arrows of course). But I have gotten some lucky gimps with arrows against characters with less than stellar recoveries. They're somewhat useful in neutral, but your opponent shouldn't really be getting hit by them all that often. And for those of you that don't know, you can stall your arrow charge by spinning back and forth like you can in Brawl/PM.

His grab game is what makes me love this character. Dthrow > Usmash from 0% is basically a guarantee on half the cast (I don't know how much vectoring affects this, but this was working on people who were constantly trying to correctly vector throws). And once the percentage is a little higher, Dthrow > UAir is your best option. It works on almost all the cast, minus a few at mid-high %'s like Bowser (yes, Bowser) and others. Even if you can't get the uair immediately, you can definitely chase them down and bait out an airdodge or an aerial with bad landing/end lag then go for the punish. There are a ton of options you can work with, and try to mix them up to throw off your opponent. Other than using bthrow near the ledge, I don't think I've used a single other throw than dthrow. If someone knows of other throw uses, let us know!

His ftilt is godlike. Sure it doesn't have the greatest killing potential unless you're in rage mode and you tipper it, but it comes out ridiculously fast and I use it constantly in neutral. The range makes pivot ftilt a fantastic option especially if you're trying to read rolls/techs, trying to outspace your opponent, or for punishing short range moves with a little end lag. It also does a good job of getting the opponent offstage, so if we can get good at edgeguarding (easier said than done) it'll be game over. I think this is either the best or second best move in his arsenal.

Having mostly studied and played PM Pit for the past year, I hadn't thought Fsmash would be that good. On the contrary, I think this is one of his two best kill options. It comes out quick and using it for roll reads is too fun. Just be careful you aren't throwing it out too much, because it can definitely be punished by grab/dash attack/disjointed hitbox.

When I played and watched the demo, I quickly dismissed Upperdash Arm as a terrible move. It's now tied with ftilt as my favorite move in Pit's set. Like the rest of Pit's game (and Smash 4 in general) it's made for reads, but pretty easy reads. Seeing an opponent charge a smash attack puts a smile on my face because I know I can get the punish off of it. I say once Pit reaches over 100%, this move becomes the best Pit has. I try not to throw this out often at all (maybe 2-3 times per match, if that) because once the element of surprise is gone, it's incredibly easy to read and bait out. So be careful about using this move, play your cards right, and maybe wait until you're over 100% so it won't be stale and you can get that early kill.

Jab is also great, and I love using it against characters like Mac (which is a character I believe Pit has the advantage over).

I've had good success with Pit over the weekend, placing 2nd in an online tournament and 3rd in an offline NC biweekly. The hardest matchup I've faced is Sonic. I have no idea how to deal with him yet.

May I ask you a question since you seem to be very familiar with Pit? With arrows nerfed what do you use to approach people?, I've tried with F-Air or dash attack but sometimes I get punished (maybe it could be me being terrible). And I constantly feel I'm doing something wrong. Any tips you got for a future Pit main?

 

[Sharkz]

May I ask you a question since you seem to be very familiar with Pit? With arrows nerfed what do you use to approach people?, I've tried with F-Air or dash attack but sometimes I get punished (maybe it could be me being terrible). And I constantly feel I'm doing something wrong. Any tips you got for a future Pit main?

I actually don't like to approach all that much. Usually I run forward > roll back constantly until I bait them to come to me, like a weird dash dance kind of thing. Off the top of my head, when I do approach it's usually with grab since I usually get the most damage off of it. If I know I can punish something, I'll approach with dash attack. I also use upperdash when I suspect that they're about to approach me with some weak move like dash attack.
I might watch some footage of myself from the past weekend to give you a better answer.

 

[LancerStaff]

Are there any gameplay videos of people playing Pit in a competitive environment?

Not really, but I've been watching the replay channel to see how others play. There's a ton of Japanese Pit replays.

From a 3 day perspective, Pit looks and feels amazing. I'm much more impressed with this character than I expected to be. This isn't really an informed/organized post, just ramblings that I'm typing out that I'm recalling from the past weekend.

Of course, his arrows were nerfed like we saw in the demo and they aren't that fun to use at all compared to Brawl/PM. No matter how useless it was, I'll miss arrow looping in this game (unless I use the custom arrows of course). But I have gotten some lucky gimps with arrows against characters with less than stellar recoveries. They're somewhat useful in neutral, but your opponent shouldn't really be getting hit by them all that often. And for those of you that don't know, you can stall your arrow charge by spinning back and forth like you can in Brawl/PM.

His grab game is what makes me love this character. Dthrow > Usmash from 0% is basically a guarantee on half the cast (I don't know how much vectoring affects this, but this was working on people who were constantly trying to correctly vector throws). And once the percentage is a little higher, Dthrow > UAir is your best option. It works on almost all the cast, minus a few at mid-high %'s like Bowser (yes, Bowser) and others. Even if you can't get the uair immediately, you can definitely chase them down and bait out an airdodge or an aerial with bad landing/end lag then go for the punish. There are a ton of options you can work with, and try to mix them up to throw off your opponent. Other than using bthrow near the ledge, I don't think I've used a single other throw than dthrow. If someone knows of other throw uses, let us know!

His ftilt is godlike. Sure it doesn't have the greatest killing potential unless you're in rage mode and you tipper it, but it comes out ridiculously fast and I use it constantly in neutral. The range makes pivot ftilt a fantastic option especially if you're trying to read rolls/techs, trying to outspace your opponent, or for punishing short range moves with a little end lag. It also does a good job of getting the opponent offstage, so if we can get good at edgeguarding (easier said than done) it'll be game over. I think this is either the best or second best move in his arsenal.

Having mostly studied and played PM Pit for the past year, I hadn't thought Fsmash would be that good. On the contrary, I think this is one of his two best kill options. It comes out quick and using it for roll reads is too fun. Just be careful you aren't throwing it out too much, because it can definitely be punished by grab/dash attack/disjointed hitbox.

When I played and watched the demo, I quickly dismissed Upperdash Arm as a terrible move. It's now tied with ftilt as my favorite move in Pit's set. Like the rest of Pit's game (and Smash 4 in general) it's made for reads, but pretty easy reads. Seeing an opponent charge a smash attack puts a smile on my face because I know I can get the punish off of it. I say once Pit reaches over 100%, this move becomes the best Pit has. I try not to throw this out often at all (maybe 2-3 times per match, if that) because once the element of surprise is gone, it's incredibly easy to read and bait out. So be careful about using this move, play your cards right, and maybe wait until you're over 100% so it won't be stale and you can get that early kill.

Jab is also great, and I love using it against characters like Mac (which is a character I believe Pit has the advantage over).

I've had good success with Pit over the weekend, placing 2nd in an online tournament and 3rd in an offline NC biweekly. The hardest matchup I've faced is Sonic. I have no idea how to deal with him yet.

Hey, are there any videos of your tournaments? I'd love to watch.

 

[Oniric Spriter]

I actually don't like to approach all that much. Usually I run forward > roll back constantly until I bait them to come to me, like a weird dash dance kind of thing. Off the top of my head, when I do approach it's usually with grab since I usually get the most damage off of it. If I know I can punish something, I'll approach with dash attack. I also use upperdash when I suspect that they're about to approach me with some weak move like dash attack.
I might watch some footage of myself from the past weekend to give you a better answer.

I see, thank you very much.

 

[SaucyDancer]

Not really, but I've been watching the replay channel to see how others play. There's a ton of Japanese Pit replays.

Where can I find this channel?

 

[Neo Zero]

Ok guys, since this is a merged thread, ill pop the question here. As has been previously shown, the Pits are 99.95% the same, and because of that, we have this merged thread. Would you guys be ok with other merged threads? At the very least I was thinking of merging MU threads across both threads. I was also potentially thinking of merging the social threads as well. Your guys thoughts? I discussed it with my fellow Pit enthusiast @Frostwraith about it, but we want to get your thoughts too.

Also, the MU thread will be discussed more soon, but we'll likely do what @Hokori and I are doing in the Shulk forums in a similar format there.

 

[arcticfox8]

The MU threads make sense, but I think it best to leave the Social Threads separate.
However I won't be too torn up if you merge those, too.

 

[LancerStaff]

Where can I find this channel?

It's an in-game thing. Online > Spectate > Replay Channel. It's neat, but it's not very in-depth. Just a random replay of your character of choice that you can narrow down to competitive options.

Ok guys, since this is a merged thread, ill pop the question here. As has been previously shown, the Pits are 99.95% the same, and because of that, we have this merged thread. Would you guys be ok with other merged threads? At the very least I was thinking of merging MU threads across both threads. I was also potentially thinking of merging the social threads as well. Your guys thoughts? I discussed it with my fellow Pit enthusiast @Frostwraith about it, but we want to get your thoughts too.

Also, the MU thread will be discussed more soon, but we'll likely do what @Hokori and I are doing in the Shulk forums in a similar format there.

Definitely merge the MU threads. I don't really care about the social threads.

Hm, just a thought, but is it possible to merge the two forums together? Can't help but think things will be more focused if they were together.

 

[Clemente]

I would like some advice on using Pit. I got the game on release day and I've been playing For Glory consistently since then, and I don't seem to be getting better. I lose often and usually it's a stomping and sometimes I get 2-stocked. I really like Pit, dual wielding, loved Kid Icarus: Uprising, the bow, etc., and I've been expecting to main him for the past year+ while getting hyped for the game, so you can imagine how frustrating this is... it's my first time playing Smash Bros. online or against anyone in a serious way, but I have friends in the same situation doing much better.

I don't know which attacks, if any, I can abuse. All the air attacks seem pretty crappy, the up-air doesn't go for very long and usually misses for me, the neutral air attack is similarly short and while easy to hit people with, it barely does damage and I usually get punished. The down-air seems good but I usually get punished, and I think it used to bounce people in Brawl but no longer does that I can tell.

Even the main "perks" of the character, which I guess are the wings and the arrows, I'm having trouble with. Shooting arrows seems really dangerous, like there's a lot of delay when using them for very little damage. A friend told me to use them more, but I barely see any opportunity where someone won't just dash attack me. It feels very very dangerous for the 3% or 4% or even the fully charged damage.

As for the new up-B, I don't know if I'm using it incorrectly, but it usually goes right past the ledge, putting me in the perfect position to get killed. Unless I'm almost completely off the map, it won't grab the ledge when I use it. So I don't know if I should chase people off the map because if I use my up-B to get back on, I'm probably going to die.

I guess the side-B is supposed to make up for Pit's nerfs, but it's so punishable and doesn't go too far. I think this might be good, but I need more practice.

Anyway, I really want some advice from a Pit mainer. (I accept that most/all of my complaints might just be due to how bad I am, so if anyone was interested in Pit take my comments on his moves with a grain of salt)

 

[SwoodGrommet]

I would like some advice on using Pit. I got the game on release day and I've been playing For Glory consistently since then, and I don't seem to be getting better. I lose often and usually it's a stomping and sometimes I get 2-stocked. I really like Pit, dual wielding, loved Kid Icarus: Uprising, the bow, etc., and I've been expecting to main him for the past year+ while getting hyped for the game, so you can imagine how frustrating this is... it's my first time playing Smash Bros. online or against anyone in a serious way, but I have friends in the same situation doing much better.

I don't know which attacks, if any, I can abuse. All the air attacks seem pretty crappy, the up-air doesn't go for very long and usually misses for me, the neutral air attack is similarly short and while easy to hit people with, it barely does damage and I usually get punished. The down-air seems good but I usually get punished, and I think it used to bounce people in Brawl but no longer does that I can tell.

Even the main "perks" of the character, which I guess are the wings and the arrows, I'm having trouble with. Shooting arrows seems really dangerous, like there's a lot of delay when using them for very little damage. A friend told me to use them more, but I barely see any opportunity where someone won't just dash attack me. It feels very very dangerous for the 3% or 4% or even the fully charged damage.

As for the new up-B, I don't know if I'm using it incorrectly, but it usually goes right past the ledge, putting me in the perfect position to get killed. Unless I'm almost completely off the map, it won't grab the ledge when I use it. So I don't know if I should chase people off the map because if I use my up-B to get back on, I'm probably going to die.

I guess the side-B is supposed to make up for Pit's nerfs, but it's so punishable and doesn't go too far. I think this might be good, but I need more practice.

Anyway, I really want some advice from a Pit mainer. (I accept that most/all of my complaints might just be due to how bad I am, so if anyone was interested in Pit take my comments on his moves with a grain of salt)

I'm still very much learning this character, but I'm in the same position as you; I was extremely hyped to play as him but then faced the harsh reality that is For Glory. I'm still trying to become more comfortable with my air game; everybody always seems to hit me first which really puts me off.

You said that you find his side B easily punishable. Which it is. But it's a brilliant move to use for punishing others. I like to use it when people are recovering back onto the stage, or when some generic Link/Kirby/Dedede/Bowser down smashes onto the stage. It's very easy to get punished for using this move if your timing is wrong, but it's also very good to punish with. Pretty sure you know this, but it also has Super Armour, so you can use it to avoid attacks and reflect projectiles.

Don't forget about his Down B - the Guardian Orbitars. Very very very useful against Wii Fit Trainers, Duck Hunt Dogs, Robins, Links and other Pits/Dark Pits. Be careful when using them close to the opponent. You can't roll or jump out of them, and the ending animation is pretty long. Believe me, this does not compare to the satisfaction of KOing a Duck Hunt Dog with his own can, or a Wii Fit Trainer with her sun salutation. They can also be used to replace your air dodge, but mix it up a little as you play.

His forward smash is extremely powerful and kills pretty early; even if it's only the second slash that connects.

I don't think I really understand what you're saying about his side-B. It takes some practice to use correctly, but you can manipulate the movement to avoid landing directly on the edge. For example, if your opponent is waiting at the edge, just fly horizontally past them to the other side of the stage. Pit is one of the lucky characters to have wings, so don't forget about those extra jumps you have before doing the risky recovery.

I'm still learning, so I'll do my best to update with more advice as I get more experience. If I remember anything else, I'll be sure to edit it in

 

[Clemente]

I have that frustration too where my air hits don't seem to have any priority at all. I admit I've almost given up on chasing people in mid-air, because I have no idea what to use to hit them.

I just did a few For Glory games where I used my arrows a lot and it did help admittedly to camp and shoot, but I actually shot one Lucina for so long (she was at 290%) that it disconnected us for being idle. I guess projectiles don't compute as damage/playing. lol

 

[CHOMPY]

You can also do a rising Dair as well.

 

[SwoodGrommet]

If I feel as though I'm playing against someone more confident in the air than me, instead of using air attacks, I either hit them with an up-smash or with a side-b as they land. I think Pit's up-air is my favourite one to use, although his down-air can be useful for smashing people downwards; very useful for Little Macs.

 

[Tsutori]

I would like some advice on using Pit. I got the game on release day and I've been playing For Glory consistently since then, and I don't seem to be getting better. I lose often and usually it's a stomping and sometimes I get 2-stocked. I really like Pit, dual wielding, loved Kid Icarus: Uprising, the bow, etc., and I've been expecting to main him for the past year+ while getting hyped for the game, so you can imagine how frustrating this is... it's my first time playing Smash Bros. online or against anyone in a serious way, but I have friends in the same situation doing much better.

I don't know which attacks, if any, I can abuse. All the air attacks seem pretty crappy, the up-air doesn't go for very long and usually misses for me, the neutral air attack is similarly short and while easy to hit people with, it barely does damage and I usually get punished. The down-air seems good but I usually get punished, and I think it used to bounce people in Brawl but no longer does that I can tell.

Even the main "perks" of the character, which I guess are the wings and the arrows, I'm having trouble with. Shooting arrows seems really dangerous, like there's a lot of delay when using them for very little damage. A friend told me to use them more, but I barely see any opportunity where someone won't just dash attack me. It feels very very dangerous for the 3% or 4% or even the fully charged damage.

As for the new up-B, I don't know if I'm using it incorrectly, but it usually goes right past the ledge, putting me in the perfect position to get killed. Unless I'm almost completely off the map, it won't grab the ledge when I use it. So I don't know if I should chase people off the map because if I use my up-B to get back on, I'm probably going to die.

I guess the side-B is supposed to make up for Pit's nerfs, but it's so punishable and doesn't go too far. I think this might be good, but I need more practice.

Anyway, I really want some advice from a Pit mainer. (I accept that most/all of my complaints might just be due to how bad I am, so if anyone was interested in Pit take my comments on his moves with a grain of salt)

Try abusing jabs for sure. Get a sense of when the opponent wants to approach you and then throw out a jab so you can punish them for getting close. Jabs are one of my favorite ways of racking up damage with Pit in any iteration of Smash, as well as arrows (which are indeed more laggy in this game, so it's probably not a good idea to spam them) and his aerials. When it comes to landing the aerials, it's again mostly an issue of guessing where your enemy wants to move and acting accordingly. I spend a lot of time using Pit's many mid-air jumps to place myself in a position where I can attack. Try using his forward air; that has pretty decent knockback and damage, and it might be a bit easier to land than the other aerials. Good edge guarding move, too.

Arrows are definitely less spammable in this game because of the lag at the end. I use them primarily as bait, firing them from afar so the enemy comes at me, and then I go into my A attacks. They can also be very useful for gimping recoveries, interrupting certain moves, and adding a tiny bit of hitstun so you can follow up with a different move.

SwoodGrommet's points are good as well.

 

[Clemente]

As for jabs, I really loved how the continuous one felt in Brawl - I don't know if it's changed but it seems like whenever I do the continuous A attack in this game, I get punished badly and they quickly get out of it. Do you usually just hold down A?

 

[SwoodGrommet]

Instead of holding the button, I just press it continuously until the attack finished or the opponent manages to escape it. But I'm pretty sure it makes no difference whatsoever. In my experience, people find it hard to get out of if it for whatever reason.

 

[Tsutori]

As for jabs, I really loved how the continuous one felt in Brawl - I don't know if it's changed but it seems like whenever I do the continuous A attack in this game, I get punished badly and they quickly get out of it. Do you usually just hold down A?

It does seem a bit easier for them to get out of it this game, especially if they're at higher percents and experience more knockback from it, but I still think it's an effective move. I usually keep pressing A.

 

[Deleted member]

Since Dark Pit has a controllable arrows custom special that is basically Pit's arrows… is the only reason to pick one over the other the length of the Horizontal/Vertical blast zones so the Side B kills easier? If so, I like it since I like both of them as characters and now I can just pick them based off of the stage.

 

[BombKirby]

Since Dark Pit has a controllable arrows custom special that is basically Pit's arrows… is the only reason to pick one over the other the length of the Horizontal/Vertical blast zones so the Side B kills easier? If so, I like it since I like both of them as characters and now I can just pick them based off of the stage.

Sadly in most cases you won't know the stage until after you pick.

As for jabs, I really loved how the continuous one felt in Brawl - I don't know if it's changed but it seems like whenever I do the continuous A attack in this game, I get punished badly and they quickly get out of it. Do you usually just hold down A?

I think it ends after you let go of A. I hold A and then release if the opponent is about to escape the jabbing combo. Holding it down and never letting go always just pushes them out.

 

[Tsutori]

Since Dark Pit has a controllable arrows custom special that is basically Pit's arrows… is the only reason to pick one over the other the length of the Horizontal/Vertical blast zones so the Side B kills easier? If so, I like it since I like both of them as characters and now I can just pick them based off of the stage.

The custom arrow actually has even more control than Pit's arrows, but Pit also has the same custom arrows, sooo....

I think we'll have to wait and see what stages are deemed legal for competitive play before we can really judge whether Pit or Dark Pit will ultimately be more useful.

 

[LancerStaff]

Hey guys, listen up!
http://smashboards.com/threads/roll-cancel-grabs.371874/#post-17729284
There's a new technique discovered: Roll cancel grabs. It's easy enough, just dash, shield, then grab. Pit's isn't too bad, just a hair longer then a dash grab. What I find most interesting is that it makes Pit's dodging sound when you're playing as him. I love confusing my opponents myself, so why not potentially bait them into doing a wrong move?

I have that frustration too where my air hits don't seem to have any priority at all. I admit I've almost given up on chasing people in mid-air, because I have no idea what to use to hit them.

I just did a few For Glory games where I used my arrows a lot and it did help admittedly to camp and shoot, but I actually shot one Lucina for so long (she was at 290%) that it disconnected us for being idle. I guess projectiles don't compute as damage/playing. lol

Fairs all day every day. Fair to approach, Fair to jump up the ledge, Fair to intercept recoveries, just Fair. I just looove the move. I get a little predictable though.

 

[New_Dumal]

I think I'm playing okay with Pit in most MU's, but he surprises me.He is just so different from Brawl Pit.
I still use the arrows sometimes, but now is a secondary move in his arsenal, a secondary move that I preffer from Pit, so I'm sticking to him and not D.Pit ..

Fair is very good, FTilt is good/very good and Dair is okay.
But DSmash is now almost useless and I have serious problems using slide/dash-USmash in the 3DS controls.
I wish he had more combos or follow-ups. I got some follow-ups from throws, but that's it.
I also mess up with his recovery sometimes. If you hold B while your wings are active, there's some difference ?
I feels annoying when I have to let Pit goes far under the ledge to not pass above the ledge and be punished.
I'll try to write my experiences in the MU topic, I need to hear some advices too.
I'm not giving up from Pit yet.

 

[LancerStaff]

I think I'm playing okay with Pit in most MU's, but he surprises me.He is just so different from Brawl Pit.
I still use the arrows sometimes, but now is a secondary move in his arsenal, a secondary move that I preffer from Pit, so I'm sticking to him and not D.Pit ..

Fair is very good, FTilt is good/very good and Dair is okay.
But DSmash is now almost useless and I have serious problems using slide/dash-USmash in the 3DS controls.
I wish he had more combos or follow-ups. I got some follow-ups from throws, but that's it.
I also mess up with his recovery sometimes. If you hold B while your wings are active, there's some difference ?
I feels annoying when I have to let Pit goes far under the ledge to not pass above the ledge and be punished.
I'll try to write my experiences in the MU topic, I need to hear some advices too.
I'm not giving up from Pit yet.

Dsmash has a much stronger KO potential with the back hit.

I don't believe that holding B does anything.

Aim your recovery low and slide up the underside of the stage. Even works on Omega Brinstar and Flatzone.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Just decided to try Pit today, and he's now one of my mains. I never played Brawl Pit, but at least in my opinion, this one is loads better.

 

[New_Dumal]

Just decided to try Pit today, and he's now one of my mains. I never played Brawl Pit, but at least in my opinion, this one is loads better.

It's hard to say who is better at their own scenario now, and probably will always be (Pit is underated in Brawl anyway).

But what matter is that Pit from Brawl is a character who requires much patience, much accuracy, and who always was good at campy playstyle.If you watch a agressive Pit in Brawl, he is most probably playing wrong, since he is one of the at best at very high range(from distance) characters at the game, and in melee-attacks is outranged by a large portion of the Brawl cast.

Now in SSB4, Pit have much more range. This allowes him to play less defensive, and more confident in close/medium range combat.I feel he is a bit better on the ground, and worse on the air this time around. Bair is a bit strange in this entry, I don't figure it out yet.Since now Pit has a special that is said as a kill-move (what is a bit debatable), he can use his moves with more freedom and less fear about staling.
Pit can gimp now, but is much more hard than in Brawl, so now looks like is better resolve things in ground-game, or land that sweetspot Fair with perfection, what is no easy task.

Pit is now a character less campy and more agressive, what suits the most people better.
I wish you a great time with him, I'll try my best to stick to his new playstyle anyway.

 

[PsychicHero]

I really like his combos and I seem to do ok on For Glory against slower characters, but I have trouble against speedy opponents like Sonic and Shiek. I can grab them but it seems like input lag prevents me from combos like backthrow into dash attack, or Downthrow into Fair. Is input lag just something i have to get used to?

 

[SaucyDancer]

I really like his combos and I seem to do ok on For Glory against slower characters, but I have trouble against speedy opponents like Sonic and Shiek. I can grab them but it seems like input lag prevents me from combos like backthrow into dash attack, or Downthrow into Fair. Is input lag just something i have to get used to?

I played a really good Shiek today which I ended up destroying. Basically Shieks are really predictable and very light. If you can predict her attacks and build her up to around 80% you can get the KO with a non charged fsmash. All Shieks I have come up against use the same tactics. Dash, grenade thing, grab and up tilt. Once you learn what they do out smarting them is easy.

 

[LancerStaff]

Bair is a bit strange in this entry, I don't figure it out yet.

Bair now only lasts a second instead of staying out, and it has a tipper instead of a sweetspot. Bleh, I miss the old one too.

 

[Clemente]

How do you guys fight Little Macs? They just send me flying on Pit. It's really unbelievable. I can semi-fight Little Macs on Ness, but with Pit it's like I'm out played in every attack

 

[SwoodGrommet]

I really hate fighting Little Macs. You'd think Pit would be trouble for him, but I just find it pretty difficult a lot of the time. Play near the edge and try to get some good grabs on him. Little Mac has a terrible, terrible recovery. Get him off the stage and do your best to down air him. Don't be afraid if he gets that KO punch either. He's probably more afraid of wasting it than you are of getting hit by it. Play some mind games when he has it, and I think it can be good to get up in their face to throw them off, and to get some good damage in.

I always find that Little Macs barrel straight into the fray. They'll dash at you with frightening speed thinking they'll get in there and do tremendous damage straight away. Take advantage of that and maybe get a few rolls in behind them, or jump over their heads even. You can even bait them into doing this by shooting a few arrows; they'll tend to get frustrated and charge at you.

Also, he has a terrible air game. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think his KO punch doesn't even KO half the time in the air. Most Little Macs simply love their side B. Nothing is more hilarious than rolling out of the way as they side B off the edge and SD. Just be cautious with him; don't let him grab you, and don't get caught up in his jabs.

 

[Clemente]

Yes but the bottom line is Little Macs stop being that stupid after day 1. I don't know why I keep hearing this "stand at the edge and throw them off". They're not falling for it.

 

[LancerStaff]

I don't exactly have a ton of experience fighting good Macs, but the lesser ones are just baffled by the Upperdash. Speaking of which, that should be a good move against better Macs. Slip in one and he's in the air, waiting to be struck down.

 

[SwoodGrommet]

Eh, I must just run into a lot of inept Little Macs then. I believe you have to be really on point with your shielding, rolling and air dodging when fighting them. As LancerStaff said, the upperdash is good to use against them. It can also be used as a defense mechanism with its Super Armour.

 

[Deleted member]

The only reason the stand by the edge and grab technique "works" with (Dark) Pit is because you have a projectile and Little Mac doesn't, forcing him to approach at some point. I've seen people stand still and time attacks to hit the Little Mac running at them, but I don't know if thats reliable enough because of Mac's armor.

 

[Tsutori]

I haven't played too many good Little Macs, but it might also be useful to throw him/somehow hit him so he gets in the air because his aerials are crap compared to Pit's/DarkPit's.

 

[SwoodGrommet]

I'm actually finding it ridiculously hard to get kills when I'm fighting particular characters. I played a roll+counter spam Lucina and was able to get a ton of damage in, but could only at least take one stock off before I lost. She was getting kills at 89-120 and I couldn't get a kill in until at least 125+ or something like that. Very frustrating. I'm wondering who's actually better at kills - Pit or Dark Pit?

I'm pretty sure I prefer Pit's playstyle and I don't think I want to give up the extra knockback and controllable arrows though. Any thoughts/advice?

 

[PsychicHero]

I'm actually finding it ridiculously hard to get kills when I'm fighting particular characters. I played a roll+counter spam Lucina and was able to get a ton of damage in, but could only at least take one stock off before I lost. She was getting kills at 89-120 and I couldn't get a kill in until at least 125+ or something like that. Very frustrating. I'm wondering who's actually better at kills - Pit or Dark Pit?

I'm pretty sure I prefer Pit's playstyle and I don't think I want to give up the extra knockback and controllable arrows though. Any thoughts/advice?

I think DP is heavier and his basics do more damage(I think) but Pit is faster. I know Pit's side b kills much early than DP's but DP has super armor during the rush in and not just the uppercut.

So I think it's a choice between combo potential and kill potential+survivability

 

[Deleted member]

I think DP is heavier and his basics do more damage(I think) but Pit is faster. I know Pit's side b kills much early than DP's but DP has super armor during the rush in and not just the uppercut.

So I think it's a choice between combo potential and kill potential+survivability

They are exactly the same besides the side special (Pit's sends opponents straight up, and Dark Pit's sends them at roughly a 45 degree angle) and neutral special, although the neutral special is debatable because they each have a controllable arrows custom that seems to be the best option.

 

[Jaxas]

I think DP is heavier and his basics do more damage(I think) but Pit is faster. I know Pit's side b kills much early than DP's but DP has super armor during the rush in and not just the uppercut.

So I think it's a choice between combo potential and kill potential+survivability

Just a heads up, that doesn't appear to be true at this point - back on page 6 @Katakiri posted this info:

Spoiler: Pit and Dark Pit Character Data (by Katakiri)] [quote="Katakiri, post: 17646721, member: 83628

I just tested KO power between the two Pits. What I did was use a CPU Pit that spawns in the same position every time I press the reset button in training mode (a very handy addition in SSB4) and I raised the CPU's damage manually until I hit a KO percent. Then I'd test it with both Pits seeing if they KO at the same percent and no lower or higher. This also helps check knockback angles.

Side-B KOes at 142 for Pit. KOes at 136 for Dark Pit. Pit's knock-back is about a 85 degree angle Star KO. Dark Pit's is around 65 degrees and KOes with the right blast zone.
F-Smash are exactly the same, KOing the training CPU Pit at 98% and no lower. Same knock-back angle.
Down Smash both KO at 153% and no lower. Same angle.
Up Smash KOes at 127 for Pit. KOes at 127 for Dark Pit. Same angle.
F-Tilt Sweet-spot KOes at 182 for Pit. KOes at 182 for Dark Pit. Same angle.
Up-Tilt also KOes at 182 for Pit. Koes at 182 for Dark Pit. Same angle.
Dash Attack KOes at 256 for Pit. KOes at 256 for Dark Pit. Same angle.
F-Throw KOes at 165 for Pit. KOes at 165 for Dark Pit. Same angle.
Up-Throw KOes at 210 with Pit. KOes at 210 for Dark Pit. Same angle.
B-Air sweet-spot KOes at 136 for Pit. KOes at 136 for Dark Pit. Same angle.
F-Air sweet-spot KOes at 161 for Pit. KOes at 161 for Dark Pit. Same angle.
I think that's enough. I can tell you from experience that Up-Air, N-Air, B-Throw, and the rest are exactly the same.

So in the knock-back department, nothing is different but Side B and Arrows.

So I guess to review, the differences between Pit and Dark Pit are:

• Dark Pit has less arrow control but stronger arrows (his arrows are not faster or slower)
  
• Dark Pit's Side-B does 0.5% more damage and launches at a diagonal angle instead of Pit's directly upward angle
• Final Smashes
  
• Which side of the bed they woke up on

And that's it. A carbon copy clone the likes of which have never been seen in Smash.
I like him tho. [/quote]

----- Edit -----
'd

 

[BaPr]

Do Pit and Dark Pit have the same kind of armor when using side B? I don't know why, but it feels like DP's armor protects him from more attacks.