• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

True Pivot in Brawl (explanation added)

Status
Not open for further replies.

phanna

Dread Phanna
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
2,758
Location
Florida
Quick thing I just realized that may or may obvious or not useful, but this can be used to 'pivot' dash-dance. This is probably begging for tripping, but if your foe is always used to you doing an away-pivot attack, you could mix it up with a dash away, then pivot a dash back to perform a grab or other move.

This is the same as Melee dash-dancing, except before you dash in the direction you just came from, you quickly hit the direction you had just dashed in, then quickly back.

I'll verify later, and possibly make a video since everyone loves dash-dancing so much, and up until now the closest you could get was a dash (wait for full stop) then continue.

I just find it funny how people never manage to envision a utility for a certain something...

Unless there's a video.
You're right - and while that's unfortunate, it's most users' only defense mechanism against a flood of text descriptions that are either false, misrepresentative, over-stated, or unclear. "Pics or it didn't happen" provides a true baseline for all descriptions, which can be judged equally and fairly by the audience.
 

Dark Sonic

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
6,021
Location
Orlando Florida
Hey Phanna, just one more question. Instead of tilting up for tilts, why don't you press up on the control stick and up on the c-stick simultaneously. Is there some reason that that wouldn't work?
 

Dark Sonic

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
6,021
Location
Orlando Florida
smash attack? jump? test?
Yeah, if you tap a direction on the control stick and the c-stick simultaneously, it registers it as you holding that direction while pressing the c-stick, so you tilt instead of smash. I find this very useful, and I wanted to know if it would transfer over into pivoting. The problem is that the control stick would no longer be in neutral when I did this, and I don't know if the pivot would still come out, or if it would be harder than the method Phanna described.
 

phanna

Dread Phanna
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
2,758
Location
Florida
Hey Phanna, just one more question. Instead of tilting up for tilts, why don't you press up on the control stick and up on the c-stick simultaneously. Is there some reason that that wouldn't work?
I've tried to do that as a way to up-tilt out of runs, but I haven't had success yet.

As for its use in pivoting, I did try briefly that way before I got it my way. If you get it your way, then great!
 

leafgreen386

Dirty camper
Joined
Mar 20, 2006
Messages
3,577
Location
Playing melee and smash ultimate
Quick thing I just realized that may or may obvious or not useful, but this can be used to 'pivot' dash-dance. This is probably begging for tripping, but if your foe is always used to you doing an away-pivot attack, you could mix it up with a dash away, then pivot a dash back to perform a grab or other move.

This is the same as Melee dash-dancing, except before you dash in the direction you just came from, you quickly hit the direction you had just dashed in, then quickly back.
I figured I should mention that the idea of using fox trotting and dashdancing to recreate melee dashdancing was brought up a LONG time ago when we all discovered that dashdashing sucks in brawl. I figured that interrupting your dash with another dash was common knowledge, so when all is put together, it really only makes sense that you could do this.

And now for something actually constructive. I've been trying that with my fox as a main form of movement, and despite the trips (usually anywhere between 1 and 5 times per match), I have found it to be quite effective. It actually feels fast again, and you are capable of much quicker and more accurate maneuvers. The control over spacing isn't *as* good as in melee, however, it's still much better than what we had before. I honestly consider the tripping worth it, as it opens up a whole new world of mindgames in brawl.
 

zamora

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 29, 2008
Messages
30
ive got this to work 1 time out of like 30 tries haha

my timing is so off :(
 

leafgreen386

Dirty camper
Joined
Mar 20, 2006
Messages
3,577
Location
Playing melee and smash ultimate
Practice dashdancing first. Be able to dash one way then immediately dash back the other way so that the first dash barely moves you. Then you can try working on fine tuning your flick so that it sets to neutral and you just turn around, instead of dashing the second time. Then practice doing that from a dash, and you should have it.
 

mugwhump

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
382
Okay, so this is what I thought it was... I wasn't sure it was possible to do tilts without setting the c-stick to them though, haha Phanna has monster fingers
 

leafgreen386

Dirty camper
Joined
Mar 20, 2006
Messages
3,577
Location
Playing melee and smash ultimate
I don't know if anyone else has realized this or not, but this can be used as essentially the wavedash of brawl. You can get (with fox at least) about half a square of the wifi practice stage of distance backward and then go into your neutral stance there. Not a HUGE distance, but it's enough to avoid some attacks and be in your neutral position ready to retaliate.

edit: OK guys I'm not kidding. This is the new pivot, the new dashdance, and the new wavedash all in one. By pivoting at the last (or near the last) possible frame, it's possible to move backwards VERY quickly, and with decent distance. With fox, the best distance I got (measured on FD) was from his back foot touching the back of the top of one of the arrows closer to the diamond to his back foot touching the edge of the diamond, although not quite touching. This is just a little less than the distance of a wavedash in melee. However, it is very hard to get that much distance (requires frame perfect or near frame perfect timing I would imagine).

And one other thing I've found is that it's also possible to shorten your dash by performing a dashdance, but instead of the usual smash to the side you'd do for the second one, just sorta flick the control stick (you don't have to manually reset it back to neutral; if you did, you'd do a pivot). This shortens it to the point where you move half, or depending on your timing, less than half of your original dash distance. I don't think the dash back is only thing reducing distance, here. From the edge of the diamond in middle of FD, I'll perform a shortened dash and only appear just inside the blue area. However, also from a dashdance, I can hold the direction and it carries me nearly the same distance as a regular dash does (slightly past the middle of the diamond).

I don't know how universally useful either of these will be, if anyone even manages to make use of them at all, although for characters with good initial dashes, it should prove to be a decent spacing tool at least.
 

DRaGZ

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
2,049
Location
San Diego, CA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4tmLsflA_c

Quick demo of what I'm talking about. Right now I'm trying to guage how much people think this is useful, and if so I'll elaborate on it assuming it's not already known (that is, the effect is the same as pivoting, but the actual technique is different).

Edit: Ok, the elaboration:

This works with any character. As with any move that starts or stops running (even a control-stick side smash or side special), it can result in tripping. It is distinct and different from Melee pivoting, as well as the "Pivot-Grab" described on the Dojo.

First, practice flicking the control stick to a direction so it comes back quickly, resting to neutral. When you do it right for the purposes of this move, your character should move very little in the direction, then be face backwards (free standing). I will refer to this as the small pivot, since you don't go anywhere, but from starting a dash, you turn around in place.

Once you have that down, practice foxtrotting. This is simply hitting the control stick to dash in a direction, for a moment brief enough that you don't continue dashing into a run. Your character should start a dash and then stop. When this foxtrot dash is ending, you can start another foxtrot dash sooner than you could do something else (like shield).

Using this, the value is that from a foxtrot, you can do the small pivot. To dash to to the right, away from your foe, and pivot an attack back toward them, the buttons would be like this:
  • Quickly hit away on the control stick to foxtrot dash away
  • Anytime after you could start another foxtrot, you can do the small pivot to start another dash, but instead simply turn around in place and be free standing. I do this by flicking the control stick in the direction I'm dashing, then slightly away (the turnaround) fast and light enough that it's resting back at neutral immediately.
  • From your free stand, perform any move you desire (jab, neutral B, tilt, etc.)
So to pivot a character's jab, it's hit away, hit away, hit back, tap A. The difference between Brawl pivoting and Melee pivoting, is that instead of changing which way you are dashing (which would be laggy in Brawl), you start another dash in the same direction as before, but simply stop it with a quick turnaround.

True-Pivoting up-smashes and grabs changes their mechanics slightly from doing them normally from runs - that is, a pivot upsmash doesn't slide while you perform the move whereas a running upsmash does, and a true-pivot grab performs your standing grab, rather than the Brawl "pivot-grab" with different range and lag. Things like side-B aren't necessary to pivot, and fsmashes can be more easily pivoted simply by fsmashing after starting another foxtrot - see this video for more: Brawl: "Pivot" Fsmash
Wow...I reeeeally have to incorporate this into my game. Thanks for posting this phanna. Your posts always seem to be at least really cool and usually enlightening.
 

Surgo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
125
Location
Sitting on the edge of time
How far is everyone flicking their control sticks for the second dash? I'm finding it extremely difficult to return it to neutral in time, and I'm wondering if it's because I seem to be flicking it too far / too hard.
 

Rkey

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
490
Location
Stockholm
I'm trying this out right now with mk, and i say it sure is cool ^_^

And guys, hear me out. Twice now, I accidently came out of a dash dance standing neutral o.O this means we could do any move out of a dash dance guys.
 

Tenki

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
6,966
Location
GA
wtfbump?

I just read through this and IMO all of you who can do this by flicking the control stick forward>neutral to pivot have screwed up controllers.

Forward>neutral>slight tilt back makes more sense ;3

edit2
aha... Sonic can B-reversal shieldcancel to pivot.
 

Tyr_03

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
2,805
Location
OH
I find if I just foxtrot and then flick the analog once as fast as I can back and forth it ends up at neutral and lets me do whatever move I need to for this. Works consistently for me anyway without anything too precise to mess around with.
 

Zero-sr388

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
37
Location
Lorain
I accidentally did this a long time ago, but figured it out.
An easy method is to dash one way, then quickly tilt the opposite direction
(not a tilt attack, just tilt the stick)
And you'll jut turn around.
At least that's how I do it with Fox and Shiek.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom