Training on Level 9 CPU's

[Heero Yuy]

Is this always a bad idea? I just trained on several of them in the past few hours in order to get a better feel of my character's playstyle plus how some other characters fight. I can understand that you formulate bad habits by playing them over and over, but I've only heard that for other fighting games. Does the same rule apply to Smash Bros?

P.S. Part of the reason I fought all those level 9 CPUs was to practice my OoS techniques, but ended up training shortly on all of them.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I'm going to take a guess and say that everyone is different. There seems to be a limitation when it comes to this sort of thing. There are plenty of things you'll be able to do against a CPU, but many things you cannot do against them. For example, knowing the timing to fast fall when Marth gets shined and slides off the stage to grab the ledge before fox can dash up to shine you is not something you are going to really be able to practice. Knowing to DI away on Falcon combos near center stage, then prepare for DI up on an incoming killing move near the stage ledge is another thing you cannot really practice against CPUs.

There is nothing wrong with using the CPU at all, but you have to realize they have limits in how useful they can be. Eventually, you will reach a point where it seems they do nothing for you at all anymore. So, playing the CPU or not playing the game may as well be the same thing at that point.

 

[pokemongeof]

When I face a CPU, it makes me want to throw out everything I learned! especially when the CPU is a high tier character like Fox or Marth.


But, it's ur personal preference

 

[BTmoney]

I'd say it is usually a bad idea if you want to actually improve. If you want to learn how to use characters at a baseline level then it's fine. It's not bad for praciting things like moonwalking and going off stage with falcon or practicing some chaingrabs.

You can learn how to combo no DI fox lolol or how to punish bad options while edge guarding so you don't ever drop the free ones.
The best thing you can practice versus the CPU imo is powershielding

 

[fatman667]

Personally no, but everyone's different. Most people has to get better with real people. M2K doesn't if I remember correctly. I prefer lvl 5-6 :3.

 

[Zelda_Fan_]

Something that I've found is that because Lv. 9 computers have perfect reaction times, comboing them is often more difficult than when facing a human in certain ways. Although they won't DI as well as a human, they will nair you on the 1st frame possible when being comboed. This taught me to expect my opponents to always have perfect reaction times, as well.

Whenever I face people who don't play competitively, they always tell me "your reaction time is insane". In sum, being able to react quickly is a core skill to a competitive player, and can be acquired through battling Lv 9s, in my opinion.

 

[Ziodyne]

mew2king says playing with other people is usually the way to go iirc

he was really good at visualizing what a human would do in a situation instead of what a cpu would do in a certain situation though, so he covered what he thought a human would do rather than what the cpu would do.

also, i heard he practiced comboing by trying out cpus at every level to get different DI and put them into situations that would mimic an actual it fight. sounds tedious and boring, but looking at m2k, it seems the pay off was pretty good lol.

level 9 cpus can make you feel better if you get sick combos on them, cuz they DI in super super hard lol.

 

[oukd]

don't adapt to cpu behavior at any level or you'll develop bad habits - if you have this mentality you should be able to practice against any lvl cpu. it's all about developing mechanical consistency, nothing else

you can get survival di combo practice off lvl9's (not that that's particularly worth practicing <_<). also you can practice responding to powershielding

 

[Gea]

There are better ways to practice almost every skill alone rather than fighting level 9s. Be creative. For example red shells are a more productive way to practice WD OoS

 

[Heero Yuy]

don't adapt to cpu behavior at any level or you'll develop bad habits - if you have this mentality you should be able to practice against any lvl cpu. it's all about developing mechanical consistency, nothing else

Yeah, I knew all about that. I even stated it in the OP.

The only source of human practice I ever get is my friend/sparring partner who's a Marth user. I suppose I can agree that pulling off combos is generally more difficult on these CPUs, but otherwise I'll heed y'alls advice and try different levels. I still seem to have difficulty DI'ing, too, so I guess it wouldn't hurt to try.

 

[Turnerfield77]

I would personally practice against lvl 5-7s, but only for combo and tech skill practice, nothing else, 9s are just too ridiculous to practice against

 

[S A U C Y]

If practicing chain grabbing i've found level 1's have the greatest tendencies to mix up their DI.

 

[TheGoat]

Don't. I do it a lot because I just play smash freqently at home for fun. But it literally regresses your skill level.

 

[kyaputenfarukon07]

^
This
cant argue against that
powershielding is the only thing i practice

 

[Shadow Huan]

amusingly enough, lvl 9's will survive puff's rest until no amount of DI will save it

but they aren't good for much else than practicing chainthrowing, and lvl 1-3 are the best for that

 

[mastermoo420]

From what I remember, level 4 CPU have the best DI. Do not play CPUs for any other purpose than getting used to combos and reactions to possible DI and etc. That and techskill. Trying to mindgame CPUs won't work out that well.

 

[Massive]

Level 9 is probably the worst CPU to practice against. Level 9s powershield too frequently and jab combo all the time. No person does this because people like to win.
Their recoveries are glitched at certain recovery angles, they never recover high, and they never retry a stopped recovery. Literally the only reason to practice against CPUs is for tech skill, lowbie combo training, and some minor DI practice.

Off stage and ledgeguard practice can only to be done correctly against humans (unfortunately) and that's arguably more important for most characters than anything else.

 

[Insom]

Cpu's are good for learning a character, but not much else.
All they do is jab and powershield. People don't powershield ever other attack. They also can do stupid things for no reason that people (usually) wouldn't do. Captain falcon will ALWAYS raptor boost after a downthrow, which is an SD if you get him to do it near the ledge. Falco will dropzone with a nair and be unable to recover.
Not to mention Cpu's are extremely predictable. People aren't. They have different playstyles and quirks, but not like Cpu's. People don't react to specific things the same way ever time. They don't SD from stupidity, although they do SD from tech flubs: Missed waveland's onto stage, wrong attack offstage, etc.
Bottom line, if you practice against Cpu's to improve, you're playstyle will become stale and predictable, and you probably won't be winning any tourneys.

 

[BlablablaxD]

I hate Lvl 9 cpu´s they make me rage like a CoD Kid xD. Im a newbie over melee and i didn't know all about of this o.o
Can anybody give me tips when playing with CPU lvl 9?

 

[Insom]

Just let them approach and fsmash them to death

 

[CloneHat]

Whoah, there sure are a lot of new members. Is it from the donation drive?

Just to clarify, playing against level nines doesn't slow your improvement. It reverses it. It's the same as playing against bad players. Because the range of skill in Smash is so large, keep in mind you are not trying to just "get better": you're trying to get better at a certain playstyle that is used by competitive players. Think of it like playing chess against players who only go for scholar's mate.

 

[himemiya]

fox/falco learn l-cancel timing and evade d-throw spike.

 

[_wzrd]

Whoah, there sure are a lot of new members. Is it from the donation drive?

Just to clarify, playing against level nines doesn't slow your improvement. It reverses it. It's the same as playing against bad players. Because the range of skill in Smash is so large, keep in mind you are not trying to just "get better": you're trying to get better at a certain playstyle that is used by competitive players. Think of it like playing chess against players who only go for scholar's mate.

LOL do you reddit?

just reminded me of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gwsw1W7eotQ#t=1457s

 

[RockinRudy]

A CPU is not a real person. They also don't DI well either so Zero to death is rather easy on a Level 1-9. You should practice your tech skill with whatever character you use. Against a CPU you will apply your waveshines, wavelands, ect... In the real game when you play against your opponent. However it is always better to play a Human when practising.

 

[Alotsa]

It depends how often you get to play with good players and what level of play your at. I went many months with no human players to play with. This was when I was moving to more technical playing and In my opinion it taught me how to play the game completely wrong. I had good reaction time and some flashy but useless tech but i still am easily figured out, thrown off, and beaten. Playing a good human is so much different than CPU's, its like a different game. Had I been playing with humans the damage would not have been so bad but its literally been like re-teaching myself with the added difficulty of habits/muscle memory.
Play as many real humans as possible. Use Cpu's for tech and i mean only tech like "ok this round i will only shffl nair and kill my self every time i miss the lc" or something like that lol.

 

[bearsfan092]

There are also some weird holes in the AI that you'll find yourself abusing.

For example, when I played Falco more and practiced against level 9's, I rolled all the freaking time. Why? Because it worked. I'd get behind them and just start wailing on them. Another kinda Falco specific thing was that I would double jump just so I can hit a falling dair. The computer would get hit by it all the time. Guess what? Doesn't work against humans, and is in fact suicide for Falco the moment he gets hit after the double jump.

 

[BlablablaxD]

So all the practice i've having with lvl 9 CPU are worthless?? Because if it is true, im gonna cry ._.



I dont have so much friends that like MELEE, so, it's worthless to keep playing it... And there isn't much people in my city either... So... Guess im gonna stop play melee for competitive play.

Sorry for my english, and for mexico, here is only football and tacos. :/

 

[Rainbow Pancake]

If only they made the CPU's more competitive.
It kinda get's boring to know a CPU will do basic attack's that are somewhat obvious.

 

[Isprayaxe]

So all the practice i've having with lvl 9 CPU are worthless?? Because if it is true, im gonna cry ._.



I dont have so much friends that like MELEE, so, it's worthless to keep playing it... And there isn't much people in my city either... So... Guess im gonna stop play melee for competitive play.

Sorry for my english, and for mexico, here is only football and tacos. :/

It's not really worthless, you can still practice tech skill, speed, and reaction time. However, doing this too much just causes bad habits to grow. You will be really good at fighting computers and really bad at fighting real players

 

[JKJ]

Computers are dumb. Use them to practice set combos. Don't try to find out new ones, because oftentimes the combo will turn out to be what I like to call "Computer specific combos" like Falco downthrow>shine or dtilt or dsmash or Falco upthrow Fsmash on spacies.

 

[BTmoney]

Computers are dumb. Use them to practice set combos. Don't try to find out new ones, because oftentimes the combo will turn out to be what I like to call "Computer specific combos" like Falco downthrow>shine or dtilt or dsmash or Falco upthrow Fsmash on spacies.

I call those level 9 fox combos lol.

Computers are good for practising specific instances and tech. They are not good for learning how to space, improving decision making, and being able to react to good defence which is 96% of competitive play. If you go to tournament tech skill shouldn't be holding you back. Like you won't say oh I didn't get that edge guard because I can't do this movement or something like that. Once you get those specific techs down practising against CPU's will not add anything to your game and you will have to disassociate them from people.

 

[Oasys17]

I'd argue that playing cpus with the intention of improving is better than JUST sitting in the lab all day(though that has its place as well), but both pale in comparison to actually playing with a friend in hopes of getting better.

Also no matter what anyone says, do NOT practice comboing a cpu xD

 

[Bowser D.X]

This is why I pray Smash 4 has good online since you can only improve so much with CPU's and you can't exactly invite your friends over every single day for long practice sessions, and tournaments don't happen everyday in the same area.

 

[BTmoney]

This is why I pray Smash 4 has good online since you can only improve so much with CPU's and you can't exactly invite your friends over every single day for long practice sessions, and tournaments don't happen everyday in the same area.

It better. Just from speculation it seems like they are just going to improve the 1 player mode and online features. They keep on stressing that. It's concerning how much they stress it actually. No mention on whether or not they are going to throw us competitors a bone.

 

[Bowser D.X]

Well people have been giving Nintendo crap for there online all through the 7th genoration so it's likely Nintendo won't want to make the same mistake twice. Nintendo finally making there own network to compete with PSN and XBL seems to be a sign of this. Also a improved single player mode doesn't exclude the possibility of good multilayer.

 

[BTmoney]

Is this always a bad idea?

Btw, here is some philosophy for you to help you deduct things on your own. Don't believe in ultimatums.
Hardly anything is ever always bad all of the time unless there is a readily available comparatively better option.

 

[Johno]

lvl 9 computers are really obnoxious to play against. Whenever you try and combo them they find a couple of frames to squeeze in a jab just to annoy you. This stuff just ends up getting me frustrated lol. However, if you really wanted to beat them, it should not be much of a challenge. Either forward smash them in the face as they casually stroll towards you, or re-grab the ledge and wait for them to kill themselves. But don't think you have discovered a new combo just because it works on the cpu. When I first started playing, before I knew about teching, I thought I found a chain grab with fox where you down throw -> jab reset -> down throw -> etc. It worked on my friends lol but obviously would not work on anyone who is remotely aware of the games mechanics.

 

[thatspoetry]

You got to be at a certain capacity to continually increase the AI of the level 9's wherein if you do play against them they actually learn. they usually pause for about 5 seconds just standing there. any player can be competitive level with just the game itself and no other person multiplayer-ing with them. it's not an easy thing to do but it certainly helps increase incentive to always play regardless of when or where.

 

[MangoNation]

When I practice on level 9 bots they don't seem to DI my combos or chain-grabs but when I train on level 6-7 Bots they DI my combos a little bit and they DI my chain-grab.

 

[JKJ]

Level 3 and 4 CPUs are the best practice. They mix up their DI.