Top Tier? Um Doubtful

[Alacion]

Wouldn't Dark Pch be A2ZOMG V2? At least chronologically?

Oh you.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Without arguing about nitty gritty fine details (like saying Rosalina's recovery is outright inferior to Zelda's), what do you think a tier list rank entails? It's not assessing a character's matchup spread in a vacuum, it's comparing a character's matchup spread to everyone else's in the game. For characters to be high/top, others have to be low/bottom. A significant portion of the large cast has to be overall worse off than Zelda to have her secure a spot in the mid tiers. It might look better for Zelda right now but as things are looking in Smash4's metagame advancement, it appears to be an exact repeat of what happened to Brawl Zelda. Too much blind excitement on Zelda's "buff" making her appear better than she actually is, then fast forward a couple years and she's at the low end of the viability spectrum again.

Generally people define "low tier" as consisting of characters who have situational use, but are generally not viable for tournament use and will probably never place high when used alone. This is exactly how I would assess Zelda in this game. She is definitely fun to play as a style character or to troll people like Wii Fit Trainer does and can even be effective, but struggling to beat most of, or all of, the commonly used threats in this game immediately means they are not viable in tournament.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Realistically by that logic, most of the cast isn't tournament viable anyway. Just there's far fewer 7/3s in this game overall compared to other Smash games, though once you get to quality tournament level play, 6/4s are bad news competitively. So by your definition, probably over half the cast is low tier. Captain Falcon is considered a good character by most people, but let's be real. He probably ain't doing **** against Sheik or Pikachu once people get good. I don't think I agree with your highly specific definitions, but whatever, semantics.

Compared to other characters? Zelda does have some high tier matchups she clearly is not bad in and are probably not 4/6 out of her favor. Is she not very seriously competitive? Yeah, I don't think I was ever trying to prove otherwise. More realistically though, she's a middle of the road character. Not clearly worse than a lot of characters.

Also, I'm pretty d*mn sure I know what a bad character looks like. My favorite characters are MARIO and GANONDORF. And I don't see Smash 4 Zelda having nearly as many problems as either of them.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Realistically by that logic, most of the cast isn't tournament viable anyway. Just there's far fewer 7/3s in this game overall compared to other Smash games, though once you get to quality tournament level play, 6/4s are bad news competitively. So by your definition, probably over half the cast is low tier. Captain Falcon is considered a good character by most people, but let's be real. He probably ain't doing **** against Sheik or Pikachu once people get good. I don't think I agree with your highly specific definitions, but whatever, semantics.

Um, not really. Mid or High tier would consists of semi-viable characters who can place high in very competent hands, but have significant disadvantages (Mid having more of these) that keep them from consistently high or top placements in significant tournaments. The lines between that, "Low Tier," and "Bottom Tier" (where Ganondorf likely falls) are rather distinct. It's less about arbitrary semantics when Smash tier lists in general have 12+ years of streamlining and development behind them now, and I've been around for all of them. Do I see Zelda making that standard of High/Mid tier when large scale tournaments with the WiiU version come out? No. Should that assessment belittle your enjoyment of the character enough to aggressively pick apart every nuance because you don't like said assessment? Also no.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I'm still seeing a disconnect from your opinion of what should be mid tier, as opposed to what it actually means realistically. Unless you want to talk Smash 64 where LINK IS A VIABLE LOW TIER. Melee and Brawl mid tiers though, none of them seriously matter competitively when basically all of them get technically invalidated in some dumb matchup. Doesn't mean they're awful characters as a whole.

So yeah...semantics as I said. And weighing Zelda's advantages and disadvantages compared to other characters, she probably falls close to the middle of the cast in terms of overall effectiveness. Not super strong, but not super weak either. There's a good number of characters who don't have her safety and also don't hit as hard as her.

 

[Meek Moths]

whats a tier?

 

[Phenomiracle]

So yeah...semantics as I said. And weighing Zelda's advantages and disadvantages compared to other characters, she probably falls close to the middle of the cast in terms of overall effectiveness. Not super strong, but not super weak either. There's a good number of characters who don't have her safety and also don't hit as hard as her.

Aside from Olimar and Ike, who are these characters?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Aside from Olimar and Ike, who are these characters?

Just saying, Ike is clearly not bottom tier. But I'm assuming you aren't interested in hearing that right now.

Some of this is guessing and not really set in stone, given there is limited footage of some characters, and also it would take too long to explain each one all at once. Characters are listed alphabetically.

Zelda on default settings is probably better than these characters:


Zelda competes on a relatively similar level with:


Characters that are better than Zelda that I'm pretty sure Zelda does very well against (at least even):


Bottom tier in this game for clarification is

 

[Los4Muros]

Oh I know, your friend played Ocarina of Time and discovered that Sheik is actually Zelda. Because of this, every time he talks about Zelda, he's actually talking about Sheik (which technically he's right). For this reason, he's been playing with Sheik (Zelda) and after watching those stunning moves told you that she's a Top tier.

It's this or your friend lost his mind.

 

[BBNik]

Mario isn't bottom tier. Honestly, Mario is pretty damn good

 

[Vonn Hennings]

I would say Mario is decently good. He is nowhere near top tho. maybe the top of the bottom tier

 

[A2ZOMG]

Mario isn't bottom tier. Honestly, Mario is pretty damn good

Read my signature. Then come back to me and tell me with a straight face that Mario isn't magically bottom tier on default settings when you realize that Mario was one of the most nerfed characters in this game.

 

[Mocha]

Oy.

I'm washing my hands of this character and this thread.
I knew coming here was a mistake.

Like I understand liking a character but I don't get how you can be so dumb and bias towards a character.

Question.
Is there ONE person here who used Zelda competitively for a significant amount of time in Brawl that thinks she's anything but terrible???
And I mean that went to real tournaments with players that are actually competent.

Nairo I already clocked you on this so don't answer.
A2 you don't need to answer either.

I've already expressed my opinions on Smash 4 Zelda (on the 3DS) but I've been holding back from saying everything till the Wii U version is out. I'm not sure how much different the moves will FEEL, but if I can have control over my inputs, it'll make my life a lot easier. But so far? No, I'm not enjoying using Zelda. She'll always be my favorite female video game character, as well as part of the series that I love, but that doesn't mean I don't have my own reservations about using her in Smash. Like I said though, I haven't given up hope entirely just yet.

Though I may just be stubborn.

Of the real Zelda main, Cour? Mocha? Ven? Kyoko? Aero? Kayla? BJ?

I'm a 'real' Zelda main? Thought I was bad for liking to Love Jump and stuff

 

[BJN39]

Of the real Zelda mains, Cour? Mocha? Ven? Kyoko? Aero? Kayla? BJ (As in...N39)?

waiT

I'm a real Zelda main?