• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Tips for reading patterns and remembering them?

NeonVoid

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 31, 2019
Messages
212
Hopefully i'm not the only one, but I have difficulty in reading patterns, and I even struggle with edgeguarding. On the times that I do notice a pattern, I can't remember what to do in what scenario, and I forgoet the opponents mistake altogether.

Does anybody have any tips for reading and remembering these patterns, and how to punish them?
 

Spiny Top

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 5, 2019
Messages
49
Ok, so let’s talk a bit about reading for edge guarding. This is how I do it, feel free to agree or disagree.

Most players have a predictable timing on their jump. Some players use it immediately upon recovering from knockback, some players wait X amount of seconds then jump. The first time you knock your opponent offstage look carefully for the jump timing and consciously store that information.

Now, when you are ready to edge guard, move to attack the spot that they will be in at the crescendo of their jump, before they use their up-B, based on the info you have about when they like to jump. You can use an air attack, or projectile with knockback to attack that spot.
 

Kewkky

Uhh... Look at my status.
Premium
Joined
Apr 20, 2008
Messages
8,019
Location
San Diego, CA
Switch FC
SW-7001-5337-8820
Tips for reading patterns...

First things first, you need to learn how to know what a pattern looks like. To do that, save your replays, then watch how your opponents fight. Watching them you'll notice how there's certain behaviors the opponents repeat, like maybe they always go in for a fair while landing, or they try to edgeguard you by ledgedropping a fair, or at low %s they're a tad bit too grab-happy to try and get a nice combo off of you, etc. Once you can see the pattern behind their gameplay approach, you can devise a countermeasure.

Sure, in this particular scenario it's already after the match and you've already lost, but if you don't even know how to properly punish someone, we're going to take it slow, and this is the right step to take here. Just watch replays, notice how your opponents kept punishing you, and think about how you should've done things differently. Did they shorthop and approach with fair? If so, would firing a projectile when they jump be humanly possible for you? What about when they're coming down from a shorthop, are they throwing out an aerial only when they're landing? If so, is your character fast enough to get in and intercept them as soon as you see them jumping, before they throw out their aerial? Also, what about when you're recovering, do they keep somehow edgeguarding you perfectly? If so, are you recovering the same way over and over, and so letting them know that they can do the same edgeguard over and over again?

Essentially, your first step is to take it easy, and in a less hectic setting, see if you can tell what your opponent's patterns were. The more videos of yourself you watch, the easier it'll start becoming to tell when your opponent is "doing the same thing over and over again." After you get enough experience watching your replays, at some point you'll start noticing them mid-match. At first, chances are that you'll either camp the opponent trying to figure out a way to punish them (and lose stage positioning in the process), or you'll go in trying different things to see what works (gaining percentage/losing stocks in the process). With enough attempts over many matches, you'll start to learn what your character can punish, with what it can punish, and what it can't punish at all. At that point, you'll have incorporated into your playstyle how to bait-and-punish, which believe it or not, is something EXTREMELY important needed to get past one of the major player skill plateaus you'll encounter, and which many players actually don't quite know how to do and/or can't consciously do.


As far as edgeguarding, it's basically the same thing, except you'll have to add into the mix player experience. The more players you play against, the more varied recoveries you'll see, and the more opportunities you'll have to find out what most people tend to do to recover. At some point, you may notice that the players around you tend to recover from high up moreso than recovering horizontally or from below the stage, and from then on you just incorporate bait-and-punish tactics; read where you think they'll go, and react accordingly.
 

DougEfresh

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 23, 2020
Messages
212
Just to give my own thoughts on identifying player patterns and storing that information for later to get punishes throughout the match/set, the best place to start this process imo is to observe how they react out of disadvantage: do they air dodge or burn their double jump right away after you try sending them up for a combo or juggle? Tech roll in/back/in place after being sent away with a forward or back throw (or any other move of your character's kit that can set up for tech chases)? Are they biased toward certain get up options from the ledge? Especially online, most players have deeply ingrained habits that they don't mix up very well in these scenarios and they apply universally to all character MUs. Also, looking for what they do after whiffed attacks is important, especially on your shield (spot dodge? Roll away/behind you? Jump away?). Some more niche examples of patterns to look for that are MU specific are when you fight zoner characters: what habits do they have in setting up their projectile wall? Are there clear holes in their wall that you can go through in order to approach or use one of your own projectiles from mid-range to try hitting them in neutral? Is their wall able to cover both grounded and jump in approaches if you're not careful? If so, it becomes more difficult and requires finesse to adapt to their strategies and habits, but it's still possible to do as you get more experienced with using this thought process. I agree with the idea of saving your replays (win or lose), so that you can start consciously developing this habit of watching your opponents for their habits. This is not only so you can get better at recognizing opportunities for punishes that make it more likely for you to win, but also to identify what habits you have developed so you can work on your own mix ups to prevent or minimize the chances of you getting downloaded by your opponents. Tried giving as many concrete examples as I could, so I hope some of this helps you out!
 

NeonVoid

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 31, 2019
Messages
212
Ok, so let’s talk a bit about reading for edge guarding. This is how I do it, feel free to agree or disagree.

Most players have a predictable timing on their jump. Some players use it immediately upon recovering from knockback, some players wait X amount of seconds then jump. The first time you knock your opponent offstage look carefully for the jump timing and consciously store that information.

Now, when you are ready to edge guard, move to attack the spot that they will be in at the crescendo of their jump, before they use their up-B, based on the info you have about when they like to jump. You can use an air attack, or projectile with knockback to attack that spot.
Tips for reading patterns...

First things first, you need to learn how to know what a pattern looks like. To do that, save your replays, then watch how your opponents fight. Watching them you'll notice how there's certain behaviors the opponents repeat, like maybe they always go in for a fair while landing, or they try to edgeguard you by ledgedropping a fair, or at low %s they're a tad bit too grab-happy to try and get a nice combo off of you, etc. Once you can see the pattern behind their gameplay approach, you can devise a countermeasure.

Sure, in this particular scenario it's already after the match and you've already lost, but if you don't even know how to properly punish someone, we're going to take it slow, and this is the right step to take here. Just watch replays, notice how your opponents kept punishing you, and think about how you should've done things differently. Did they shorthop and approach with fair? If so, would firing a projectile when they jump be humanly possible for you? What about when they're coming down from a shorthop, are they throwing out an aerial only when they're landing? If so, is your character fast enough to get in and intercept them as soon as you see them jumping, before they throw out their aerial? Also, what about when you're recovering, do they keep somehow edgeguarding you perfectly? If so, are you recovering the same way over and over, and so letting them know that they can do the same edgeguard over and over again?

Essentially, your first step is to take it easy, and in a less hectic setting, see if you can tell what your opponent's patterns were. The more videos of yourself you watch, the easier it'll start becoming to tell when your opponent is "doing the same thing over and over again." After you get enough experience watching your replays, at some point you'll start noticing them mid-match. At first, chances are that you'll either camp the opponent trying to figure out a way to punish them (and lose stage positioning in the process), or you'll go in trying different things to see what works (gaining percentage/losing stocks in the process). With enough attempts over many matches, you'll start to learn what your character can punish, with what it can punish, and what it can't punish at all. At that point, you'll have incorporated into your playstyle how to bait-and-punish, which believe it or not, is something EXTREMELY important needed to get past one of the major player skill plateaus you'll encounter, and which many players actually don't quite know how to do and/or can't consciously do.


As far as edgeguarding, it's basically the same thing, except you'll have to add into the mix player experience. The more players you play against, the more varied recoveries you'll see, and the more opportunities you'll have to find out what most people tend to do to recover. At some point, you may notice that the players around you tend to recover from high up moreso than recovering horizontally or from below the stage, and from then on you just incorporate bait-and-punish tactics; read where you think they'll go, and react accordingly.
Just to give my own thoughts on identifying player patterns and storing that information for later to get punishes throughout the match/set, the best place to start this process imo is to observe how they react out of disadvantage: do they air dodge or burn their double jump right away after you try sending them up for a combo or juggle? Tech roll in/back/in place after being sent away with a forward or back throw (or any other move of your character's kit that can set up for tech chases)? Are they biased toward certain get up options from the ledge? Especially online, most players have deeply ingrained habits that they don't mix up very well in these scenarios and they apply universally to all character MUs. Also, looking for what they do after whiffed attacks is important, especially on your shield (spot dodge? Roll away/behind you? Jump away?). Some more niche examples of patterns to look for that are MU specific are when you fight zoner characters: what habits do they have in setting up their projectile wall? Are there clear holes in their wall that you can go through in order to approach or use one of your own projectiles from mid-range to try hitting them in neutral? Is their wall able to cover both grounded and jump in approaches if you're not careful? If so, it becomes more difficult and requires finesse to adapt to their strategies and habits, but it's still possible to do as you get more experienced with using this thought process. I agree with the idea of saving your replays (win or lose), so that you can start consciously developing this habit of watching your opponents for their habits. This is not only so you can get better at recognizing opportunities for punishes that make it more likely for you to win, but also to identify what habits you have developed so you can work on your own mix ups to prevent or minimize the chances of you getting downloaded by your opponents. Tried giving as many concrete examples as I could, so I hope some of this helps you out!
Thank you all! I guess my problem is remembering what the opponent does, but i'll take your advice and keep working!
 
Top Bottom