Social "Time to Tip the Scales!" - Robin Social Thread

[Hong]

That is an awesome moveset, ToothiestAura. I like how people are still churning out Avatars/Robins that are completely different from the last. o.o

I bet pretty heavily against this. Most people are going to whine about Chrom if he just ends up being "another blue-haired swordsmen".

I have been with the Smash Bros. fan community since 2001, so I pretty much have my finger on the pulse to it.

Same, and it's not just the hardcore community. Even the casual onlooker has been harping on "clones" or characters with washed differences such as Lucas. This is not Street Fighter. People don't want five shotos. They were finnicky enough about similar characters as it is. This is why people still call Falco a clone.

It's not worth the development time to make a middle-of-the-ground swordsman. What Jay said about "the Ryu" was answered in of itself; Mario is the Ryu of Smash Bros. Not every character archetype needs to cover every spectrum if it's not even going to contribute adequately to the product. Even a bloated as **** fighting game only has a few grapplers.

They made a huge mistake last time over spreading themselves too thin, and they know it. Besides, from what we have seen with Link, Samus and Bowser, slow is not that slow anymore. They have learned why it is bad to have ludicrously slow attacks. It doesn't age well as players improve. As a Bowser player in Melee, only a fraction of my moveset was viable to use frequently. Ike suffered similarly, and if he does come back, he's going to be a bit faster to suit the cited faster gameplay. This means a "middle ground" character will have minute differences.

It is not in the design philosophy of this entry to spend so much time planning, designing, rendering, coding and balancing a character like this. They rather work on something that offers new gameplay entirely. By that very same token, if we get three Fire Emblem characters I dearly hope they are not all swordsmen. You can represent the series so much better, and they still have other franchises to look to.

 

[ChronoBound]

And as I've said, it doesn't matter how much his haters complain, because they will still make the economic decision to buy the game. If they don't want to play as him that's fine. But within the larger population of people who buy the game (the ten million people who bought Brawl), he won't be the least popular character.

Definitely will be the least popular newcomer from a veteran franchise.

 

[ToothiestAura]

Back to Robin. I'm really tempted to make a stance based moveset. I am in the process of making a stance based moveset for Lucina, but it fits Robin so much better. My last moveset pretty much ignored the fact that you have to hold a tome in order to do magic. I did so I could have fire sword and lightning sword attacks like from Secret of Mana or the Dual Techs from Chrono Trigger.

Yeah, I liked the combo sword/magic attacks in your moveset. It makes more sense to have him switch completely, because it was sort of hard to make my move ideas flow while he was holding a Sword and a Tome. It makes sense, it's just more difficult than need be. Entirely different stance would essentially be a transformation.

On an another note it seems we're coming up with ideas way better than what Sakurai would probably do.

 

[jaytalks]

That's a distinctly possibility. But considering that we are expecting a smaller amount of newcomers this time around, that's hardly damning. There's always going to be someone in last. More importantly, in the total number of characters, Chrom won't be last. That doesn't mean I want to see him as a character. I just think it's too early to dismiss him on the basis of a non-existent playstyle and moveset.

That is an awesome moveset, ToothiestAura. I like how people are still churning out Avatars/Robins that are completely different from the last. o.o
Same, and it's not just the hardcore community. Even the casual onlooker has been harping on "clones" or characters with washed differences such as Lucas. This is not Street Fighter. People don't want five shotos. They were finnicky enough about similar characters as it is. This is why people still call Falco a clone.

It's not worth the development time to make a middle-of-the-ground swordsman. What Jay said about "the Ryu" was answered in of itself; Mario is the Ryu of Smash Bros. Not every character archetype needs to cover every spectrum if it's not even going to contribute adequately to the product. Even a bloated as **** fighting game only has a few grapplers.

They made a huge mistake last time over spreading themselves too thin, and they know it. Besides, from what we have seen with Link, Samus and Bowser, slow is not that slow anymore. They have learned why it is bad to have ludicrously slow attacks. It doesn't age well as players improve. As a Bowser player in Melee, only a fraction of my moveset was viable to use frequently. Ike suffered similarly, and if he does come back, he's going to be a bit faster to suit the cited faster gameplay. This means a "middle ground" character will have minute differences.

It is not in the design philosophy of this entry to spend so much time planning, designing, rendering, coding and balancing a character like this. They rather work on something that offers new gameplay entirely. By that very same token, if we get three Fire Emblem characters I dearly hope they are not all swordsmen. You can represent the series so much better, and they still have other franchises to look to.

I don't think Chrom will necessarily fit under the balanced archetype, I just think it's his most likely stat distribution. But even under the balanced archetype, Mario already is not alone. We have Luigi, Kirby and Pikachu along with him.

I think clones are a very different situation than overused character archetypes. The hate comes from roughly the same place, a perceived laziness, but they are very different situations. If Chrom was made with a different moveset than Ike and Marth, there would not be a problem. If he had a different playstyle, there would not be a problem. Fire Emblem really only gives you, at max, four attacks with gameplay. The rest is something the developers have to make up. And they have proven time and time again to have the originality to make a strong moveset. All sword fighters don't fight the same. Namco has an entire series that proves this.

They definitely know they spread themselves to thin, hence the less characters being added this game. I think overall speed will be increase, so a fast Bowser, Link, and Samus will be all relative. If Ike stays a heavy powerhouse, Chrom can easily fit under the beatdown archetype, which would require him not to be a balanced in his moveset.

That relies on the idea we already know what archetype Chrom will fall under. I do think there are better choices than Chrom, but he is hardly the worst choice. If Fire Emblem gets three characters and part of their criteria was them being main characters, then three swordsman would represent the main characters of the series well, because that's generally who their main characters are. But if they wanted to be more out of the box, I think adding Robin would be a good choice. She would be fine third addition.

 

[Hong]

Mario already is not alone. We have Luigi,

Luigi exists in consequence of Mario. He is a character nearly entirely borne from fanservice. You can't have Mario without Luigi. That would be an outrage. If the fighters in Smash Bros were not Nintendo all-stars, Luigi would likely never exist. But they are. And because he is Mario's brother, he has to have similarities. This is not a valid comparison.

Kirby

Not at all a balanced character. He is a character at his root characterized by slow movement speed, floatiness and strong attacks (despite not being a heavyweight). He is the base in which aerial fighters were initially measured, with Jigglypuff being a more extreme alternative. This is all made interesting with the copy mechanic.

Pikachu along with him.

The least balanced character you have listed. Pikachu is a textbook fragile speedster who uses ground and aerial control abilities to compensate for poor reach. Unlike other fast-moving characters, Pikachu has both fast attacks in addition to just fast movement, and is highly characterized by a small frame. He is a character that can zip around all over the place, even in the hands of beginners. This is not the case with someone like Fox, who could only really do that in the hands of an expert in Melee (via ATs, not considered in his design), and not the case with Sheik who moves very slowly in the air. They are both very fast on the ground, but they are more about ground speed where as Pikachu is all over the place.

If he had a different playstyle, there would not be a problem. Fire Emblem really only gives you, at max, four attacks with gameplay. The rest is something the developers have to make up. And they have proven time and time again to have the originality to make a strong moveset. All sword fighters don't fight the same. Namco has an entire series that proves this.

This does not at all compare because the two games are entirely different.

It is true that both Soul Calibur and Super Smash Bros have similar dynamics of your traditional fighter, but in this particular instance, you can't hope character design approach will translate. Soul Calibur is a 3d fighter built around the 2d fighting formula. You have high and low attacks. You have movement in the x and z axis. You have life. You have a deliberate combo system with defined combos that are basically pre-built into characters since they always work.

Smash Bros control functions like a platformer in the way the characters and stages are designed, and a fighter by consequence of sophistication. We play on the x and y axis. Characters in Soul Calibur do have aerial attacks here and there, and those are special because the game isn't played out in air like Smash Bros is. Smash Bros has combos, and characters like Fox were surely built around it, but it is entirely different from others fighters and has greater limitations, largely in part due to generous invincibility on command, knockback-damage scaling and DI.

In Smash Bros, a strictly horizontal sword strike is effectively the same thing as a thrust. It covers the same areas. Characters like Raphael are heavily characterized by faster thrust attacks; he has a few kicks, grabs and slashes, but fast thrusts are what primarily make him different from characters who may instead use slashes. Soul Calibur has plenty of moves and fighters that are designed for movement in the 3d plane. It helps to have the knowledge of how to make sword strikes unique, but it's not going to help as much in the way of making unique characters.

Also, you need to look at the grand scope of the newcomers and upcoming changes. Like, let's say Ganondorf shows up as actually being Ganondorf this time. with swords and sorcery. Sure you can mix up his character here and there, but at his core if he is redesigned he is likely to be a brutish sword fighter (unless he comes as his WW version, but that's not what I am trying to argue here). Plus, we don't know if hopefuls such as Shulk, Isaac or Robin in question is going to show up. Those three examples are not characters I would hold my breath for, but it is likely at least one additional swordsman will be here.

Right now we have Marth, Ike, Link, Toon Link, Pit and Meta Knight as swordsmen with their own flavour. I think with what is hot right now, we can at least assume minimum one additional swordsman shows up. Perhaps two. Now, I am never the sort who will say a character is like another character because of the weapon they wield; the sword is the most prolific fantasy weapon, and martial arts are more defined by style than the weapon in hand. But at some point we are going to run stagnant. Give them tools or sorcery or kicks, it doesn't matter. It is going to run stagnant and hard to develop within the environment of Super Smash Bros. Having a sword becomes increasingly less defining. Looking at where we are now, the only two that are subject to replacement are Toon Link and Ike... and both likely by similar successors (or predecessor for Toon Link I hope :b).

If Fire Emblem gets three characters and part of their criteria was them being main characters, then three swordsman would represent the main characters of the series well, because that's generally who their main characters are.

I considered that unfortunate possibility, given that the majority of the heroes are blue-haired swordsmen, but I would be surprised to see them all together on a character select screen. It would be an eyesore. It's not like the Mario series where we have three out of four characters in the same hat, shirt and suspenders. Fire Emblem has so many characters with less screen time than other flagship names, and none of them are exactly household names, so they have more freedom than the aforementioned. They have so much to draw from; many of the possibilities are both popular and would make for great movesets, and verily unique within the company. Even characters like Tiki or Anna who are not really, let's be honest, popular, would be well received none-the-less and met with minimal groaning. Fire Emblem fans are easy to please, so they can pick whatever makes the best product overall while bringing the most flavour to the end-product.

 

[ChronoBound]

That's a distinctly possibility. But considering that we are expecting a smaller amount of newcomers this time around, that's hardly damning. There's always going to be someone in last. More importantly, in the total number of characters, Chrom won't be last. That doesn't mean I want to see him as a character. I just think it's too early to dismiss him on the basis of a non-existent playstyle and moveset.
.

Its actually worse in a crowd with far less new faces. If you are by far the blandest new addition people are going to be sticking it to you far worse than if there was a Brawl-like number of newcomers (15+).

 

[GuyWithTheFace]

To me, it's not so much that Chrom couldn't be unique, he very well could have a completely new style of swordsmanship, and play differently from the previous FE characters we've seen in Smash. However, the problem is that it seems, for lack of a better word, unfair to Fire Emblem to have it represented only by three swordsmen. The series features so many unique weapons and styles of fighting. Having only swordsmen would misrepresent FE. In addition, there are plenty of non Fire Emblem characters who could fill the role of being a new, unique swordsman while representing their series well. Shulk, for example, would introduce a new style of swordsmanship, and it's very difficult to argue that he's the best representative for his series. It just seems to me that Fire Emblem needs someone to represent the magic side of it, and Smash needs more characters who can use less common weapons. The best choice for that role is Robin. Nothing against Chrom, he's awesome in his game, but his game is about far more than swordsmanship.

 

[cephalopod17]

I really want Marth,Ike,Chrom and Robin for Smash 4. I don't think Marth and Ike are going anyware. To me a possible Fire Emblem slot gose to either Chrom,Lucina or Robin. I do not think Roy is returning nor do I think Ike will get replaced easily. As for Robin,I imagine him/her as a character that uses magic,swords and can summon other units. His/Her FS would be something Grima related,as his/her struggle with Grima is a focal point of the game.

Also where did you get those epic 3D Models in the OP?

 

[jaytalks]

Its actually worse in a crowd with far less new faces. If you are by far the blandest new addition people are going to be sticking it to you far worse than if there was a Brawl-like number of newcomers (15+).

The key words being blandest by far. There's no way to no that without a moveset or playstyle. There's a difference between being the least popular and blandest by far. It's statement that's hard to make if we don't know how Chrom would play, or who the other characters will be.

This does not at all compare because the two games are entirely different.

It is true that both Soul Calibur and Super Smash Bros have similar dynamics of your traditional fighter, but in this particular instance, you can't hope character design approach will translate. Soul Calibur is a 3d fighter built around the 2d fighting formula. You have high and low attacks. You have movement in the x and z axis. You have life. You have a deliberate combo system with defined combos that are basically pre-built into characters since they always work.

Smash Bros control functions like a platformer in the way the characters and stages are designed, and a fighter by consequence of sophistication. We play on the x and y axis. Characters in Soul Calibur do have aerial attacks here and there, and those are special because the game isn't played out in air like Smash Bros is. Smash Bros has combos, and characters like Fox were surely built around it, but it is entirely different from others fighters and has greater limitations, largely in part due to generous invincibility on command, knockback-damage scaling and DI.

In Smash Bros, a strictly horizontal sword strike is effectively the same thing as a thrust. It covers the same areas. Characters like Raphael are heavily characterized by faster thrust attacks; he has a few kicks, grabs and slashes, but fast thrusts are what primarily make him different from characters who may instead use slashes. Soul Calibur has plenty of moves and fighters that are designed for movement in the 3d plane. It helps to have the knowledge of how to make sword strikes unique, but it's not going to help as much in the way of making unique characters.

Also, you need to look at the grand scope of the newcomers and upcoming changes. Like, let's say Ganondorf shows up as actually being Ganondorf this time. with swords and sorcery. Sure you can mix up his character here and there, but at his core if he is redesigned he is likely to be a brutish sword fighter (unless he comes as his WW version, but that's not what I am trying to argue here). Plus, we don't know if hopefuls such as Shulk, Isaac or Robin in question is going to show up. Those three examples are not characters I would hold my breath for, but it is likely at least one additional swordsman will be here.

Right now we have Marth, Ike, Link, Toon Link, Pit and Meta Knight as swordsmen with their own flavour. I think with what is hot right now, we can at least assume minimum one additional swordsman shows up. Perhaps two. Now, I am never the sort who will say a character is like another character because of the weapon they wield; the sword is the most prolific fantasy weapon, and martial arts are more defined by style than the weapon in hand. But at some point we are going to run stagnant. Give them tools or sorcery or kicks, it doesn't matter. It is going to run stagnant and hard to develop within the environment of Super Smash Bros. Having a sword becomes increasingly less defining. Looking at where we are now, the only two that are subject to replacement are Toon Link and Ike... and both likely by similar successors (or predecessor for Toon Link I hope :b)..

On balanced characters: Took it from the Archetypes thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/character-archetypes-in-smash-bros.331574/.
If you disagree with it, that's perfectly fine. I think that kirby and pikachu are balanced characters within the context of Smash more than other archetypes despite having dynamic and speedster qualities. With Luigi, I don't disagree with you. I was putting a block of balanced characters. And there is no reason why Chrom has to be a balanced type of character. He could easily be a beatdown character considering his speed in his game.

My point about the Soul Series is that it's about sword fighters using different styles. There are plenty of different ways to attack with a sword, and there are plenty of different styles and disciplines can use. And there plenty of different archetypes different sword users can use within those contexts. If you want to argue against more sword users in Smash, that's fine. I agree that there probably is a breaking point to the amount of sword users we can have. But that's an argument against all sword users rather than just Chrom. And I don't think we have reached that point yet. Anything that works against Chrom if he's a sword user should also work against Isaac, Shulk, Lucina, Robin, etc, because they all use their sword as their primary weapon. I do hope they diversify any incoming sword users, but that includes Chrom.

I considered that unfortunate possibility, given that the majority of the heroes are blue-haired swordsmen, but I would be surprised to see them all together on a character select screen. It would be an eyesore. It's not like the Mario series where we have three out of four characters in the same hat, shirt and suspenders. Fire Emblem has so many characters with less screen time than other flagship names, and none of them are exactly household names, so they have more freedom than the aforementioned. They have so much to draw from; many of the possibilities are both popular and would make for great movesets, and verily unique within the company. Even characters like Tiki or Anna who are not really, let's be honest, popular, would be well received none-the-less and met with minimal groaning. Fire Emblem fans are easy to please, so they can pick whatever makes the best product overall while bringing the most flavour to the end-product.

As much as I don't want that to happen, I also see it as a possibility and a likelihood. That's all I'm saying. I hope they do go outside the box in their decisions. But I don't think it would be misrepresentation of Fire Emblem to have it be represented by three sword user protagonists. Of the top of my head, 14 of the main protagonists use swords, while only 5 don't use swords as a main weapon (this include Robin as a Sword user, My Unit (FE12) as a non-sword user, and Micaiah as a main character). And every single game has had at least one of the main protagonists wielding a sword. If anything, this is an argument that the next FE protagonist should not use a sword.

As I've said before, I don't want Chrom in the game unless he's in a tag team with Lucina. But I also don't think he's got too much going against him that other sword users or FE newcomers also have. Luckily, the overall likelihood for every character seems kind of low, so he has a better chance, but that doesn't mean much in the end.

I propose any further discussion at the FE thread.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

In Chroms defense, I think a lot of you are over reacting. Although I, without a doubt, think Robin is the best character to add, Chrom wouldn't be terrible. I realize that in some ways Chrom is in competition with Robin, so I should support these arguments. But I don't think these arguments are quite delivering justice.
To say that having Ike and Marth closing in on him prevents Chrom from having a unique move set is selling the development team out short. Just think, how many characters do we have who primarily punch people? Yet there are no cries of little mac offering nothing new to add. I can tell you this. The general mass of Smash's audience is not going to point the finger at Chrom and say it was a bad decision. A FE trio, or even quartet can easily be more diverse than the star fox roster. Even so, I rarely hear players complain about fox, falco and wolf. So I assure you, we will be fine.
Aesthetically, you can decide how well those lords do. Many other characters would add more variety, but I wouldn't say these three are so similar that its at the point of confusion.

Spoiler

I do agree, however, that Robin contributes to a more diverse roster than any of the other popular lords and that 3 swords poorly represents the series for what it is known for.

I really want Marth,Ike,Chrom and Robin for Smash 4. I don't think Marth and Ike are going anyware. To me a possible Fire Emblem slot gose to either Chrom,Lucina or Robin. I do not think Roy is returning nor do I think Ike will get replaced easily. As for Robin,I imagine him/her as a character that uses magic,swords and can summon other units. His/Her FS would be something Grima related,as his/her struggle with Grima is a focal point of the game.

Also where did you get those epic 3D Models in the OP?

That would be my ideal roster but a common criticism of such an idea is that FE won't get 4 reps. Weather or not you believe that is up to you.
The links to the first pictures are right below them.

 

[Nado]

For some reason I think if this character is added the name would be grima not robin. The pokemon trainer has a set name to for each game but he's not named blue, red, ash, etc. but wasn't named that in brawl.

I also assume that this character would be a villain or at least change personalities during the final smash. Also I can see it using dark magic even though the grandmaster and tactician classes can't use that magic.

 

[GuyWithTheFace]

For some reason I think if this character is added the name would be grima not robin. The pokemon trainer has a set name to for each game but he's not named blue, red, ash, etc. but wasn't named that in brawl.

I also assume that this character would be a villain or at least change personalities during the final smash. Also I can see it using dark magic even though the grandmaster and tactician classes can't use that magic.

I feel like the character would be called either Robin or Tactician. PT might have a generic name, but you can change Link's name in his games too and he's still Link. In addition, Robin and Grima are two very different characters. One of the main points of the story is Robin resisting Grima's influence. Although it wouldn't surprise me to have Robin temporarily lose control of him/herself for his/her final smash.

 

[GuyWithTheFace]

Hah, what if Sakurai throws us all a curveball and puts this guy in instead? http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Robin

"Huh. I really don't get it, but the fans seem to want this Robin guy. I... I guess I can make him a character...?"

 

[Gingerbread Man]

I feel like the character would be called either Robin or Tactician. PT might have a generic name, but you can change Link's name in his games too and he's still Link. In addition, Robin and Grima are two very different characters. One of the main points of the story is Robin resisting Grima's influence. Although it wouldn't surprise me to have Robin temporarily lose control of him/herself for his/her final smash.

I agree. For the majority of the game you see Robin as a heroic character rather than a villain. Grima is a great idea for a final smash, but it will likely be the only time Grima has control over Robin's body.

Hah, what if Sakurai throws us all a curveball and puts this guy in instead? http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Robin

"Huh. I really don't get it, but the fans seem to want this Robin guy. I... I guess I can make him a character...?"

Being a villager, he'll probably just be a clone of the AC villager. D:

 

[GuyWithTheFace]

I agree. For the majority of the game you see Robin as a heroic character rather than a villain. Grima is a great idea for a final smash, but it will likely be the only time Grima has control over Robin's body.

A really cool boss battle though, would be fighting a possessed Robin on Grima's back, like in game. Grima can swipe his claws onto the screen while Robin casts spells at you. That'd be amazing.

Being a villager, he'll probably just be a clone of the AC villager. D:

Probably.

 

[Hong]

Hm, right. Suppose I did derail this thread.

My ideal picture for Fire Emblem in Sm4sh consists of Marth, Chrom/Lucina and of course Robin. Aside from having a strong liking for Robin, I just think there are a few gaping niche holes to fill as far as play styles go. I think she would represent Fire Emblem fairly well. In a way, the Tactician class really represents the key detail that defines it from any other game, RPGs specifically. That being greater emphasis on strategy, of course.

 

[cephalopod17]

but a common criticism of such an idea is that FE won't get 4 reps

I would not be surprised if Fire Emblem got three reps though. Now Marth is returning obviously. Ike...well that's debatable if he'd be replaced by Chrom. If not though,it would be a toss up between Chrom,Robin and Lucina. Lucina I think would be too big of clone of Marth. That leaves Chrom and/or Robin. If Sakurai gose purely by uniqueness,then Robin is the obvious choice. Either way we are going to get an Awakening character for Smash 4. I also do not belive Robin would be called Grima,as the game is very clear Robin has a struggle with the dragon. Grima is perfect stage/FS material though.

 

[Hong]

Fire Emblem fans are easy to please, so I figure what we get for the most part depends on what else shows up.

Like, if you want to deliver fan service for the Metroid series, the character choice is pretty decisive. I am not a big fan of Ridley myself, but I know he would be one of the most hyped newcomers you can add, and would offer gameplay unlike anything else Nintendo can pull out.

Fire Emblem fans are a different matter. There are hundreds of characters and everyone has a diverse range of favourites. Even unpopular characters can be well received by the community if they are presented well. As such, they can just look at the grand scope of what the series is capable of and fit a character to it. They can basically leave it up to IS or popular fan opinion to decide who should show up from the dozens of characters who could theoretically offer the exact same gameplay.

With Robin, from within the series characters like Celica could just as well do all the same, but there is not much a reason to choose a less popular or important character, and I couldn't see IS recommending her. There are a few characters outsides of Fire Emblem that could theoretically offer the same result, but they are all less popular and would require far more distortion. Similarly, if they wanted a manakete, I couldn't see anyone getting in over Tiki. Going further, it is also pretty easy to write off a number of lords that just have no reason to come to mind.

No matter who you add the majority of the populace will be scratching their heads and Googling them. Ike really left a mark because even if you don't know who he is, his character concept has a wide appeal among gamers. Rugged attire, a gorgeous BFS, a headband and awesome voice lines that scarcely even matched who he was. I could, with confidence, say someone like Chrom or Anna would be well received by outsiders of the series... Chrom has badass written all over him, and Anna is a popular subject in art portals that garners adoration from people who don't even know her name. If they were to run with the younger Tiki, I could see her being well received as well (not enough cute characters! :b).

Not to say surface reception really affects a character chances, of course. Mega Man is the only new addition thus far that really has such appeal.

 

[Groose]

Robin is up on Rate Their Chances today.

On topic... I think (s)he'd make a more interesting character than Chrom.

 

[jaytalks]

I think most FE characters will be relatively well received since they have strong designs in the series. As long as Sakurai gives them a unique moveset, they should be fine. I could see IS recommending her on the basis of uniqueness (being the only magic main character besides Celica and Micaiah), especially if that's what Sakurai is looking for.

 

[ToothiestAura]

For some reason I think if this character is added the name would be grima not robin.

Seems a little spoiler-y. And just really doesn't make a lot of sense.

A FE trio, or even quartet can easily be more diverse than the star fox roster. Even so, I rarely hear players complain about fox, falco and wolf.

Really? You rarely hear people complain about them? Well, I guess now complaints are just kind of pointless, but when Brawl first came out that was like the main character compliant. ...goddamn Landmasters.

I don't see why FE can't have 4 reps, but I suppose 2 new spots does seem like a lot. Especially when Metroid/Donkey Kong only have 2 reps (or possibly 3). This is probably the main reason people can't see 4 character spots for FE - other, more iconic Nintendo series have fewer reps. But FE games have casts of 50+ characters, meaning with, 13 FE games or so, at least 500 characters (At least half of which are playable units). Giving 4 reps seems like the least that could be done. Granted, it was a dying franchise until Awakening pulled it back into the realm of popularity.

 

[Glaciacott]

On the grima topic, remember that not all people who look at Robin's chances will have played Awakening. I'd suggest being less obviously spoiler-ific.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Bleh. Needs more Ike.

Too many swords then XD

 

[BluePikmin11]

I always thought of the Tactician's Side-Smash as the Ruin Spell, where it makes a big X-Slash to the opponent.

 

[Sonsa]

Oh yes yes yes! Chrom is great and all, I played the game, but assuming Marth is staying, we have enough swordsmen. Time to show what else Fire Emblem has in its series! Robin would be great since he/she could use magic and swords! And a final smash of coordinating the whole army to attack, oh it would be splendid! Definitely support, especially over Chrom! (sorry Chrom, I like ya, I just need something a biiit more unique)

 

[Gingerbread Man]

I'm trying out a different moveset using the idea previously mentioned, switching between weapons. I'm not quite finished with it. But I'll leave it here just 'cause. Input is still welcome!

Down B: Equip
Robin changes between fighting with tomes and swords
B:Ignis
Next special has an increased damage output and launching capability.

Tome Specials:
Up B: Arcwind
A wind spell is cast at Robin's feet, launching him into the air. This move can be slightly controlled: Holding back will launch Robin straight upward at 90 degrees. Holding forward will launch him at 45 degrees. Pressing no direction will launch directly between the two. There is a small powerful hitbox close to the character when the spell is cast, you nearly have to occupy the same space for this to hit. Being hit by the Tactician himself while he is being launched will deal damage but its not very powerful. Standing near the base of this attack will push you away from the air blast similiar to link's boomerang.
Side B: Thoron
After a decently long windup Robin shoots a horizontal lightning attack across the stage. It has bad launching capabilities and deals a moderate amount of damage for as far as specials go. While in air, this move will fire downward at a 20 degree angle. If the bolt hits a wall or the floor the area will emit an puff of smoke and the beam's impact point will have great launching capabilities being very deadly. When the target is above 100% they will be momentarily stunned before being knocked back.

Sword Specials:
Up B: Upwards spiral
As seen in awakening (if player is using the tactician class), Essentially a spin sword attack with less spin and more vertical leap. Even if used on ground robin will be propelled into the air. It has very little ability to move left or right.
Side B: hmmm something... I'll think of something later.

Final Smash: Grima
A red haze appears on the screen and sound is distorted in bursts (similar to Awakening's second cutscene). Struggling, Robin drops to his knees before falling to the ground unconscious. The fall dragon Grima appears in the background in a storm. The player can then target one place on the map with a courser. After pressing A, an attack is unleashed. Spikes burst out of the ground and kill anyone whose within the large area (as seen in game). Grima then disappears and Robin reawakens.

Taunts:
UP: Rally Specturm
Robin raises either the sword or tome and a the rally icon appears over his head along with a glow rising from the ground. As an easter egg, team members will receive the same effect.
Side: "Now that's strategy"
Robin repeats the phrase while swinging his sword
Side: "Checkmate"
Robin clutches a tome and bows, uttering "checkmate"

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

To me, it's not so much that Chrom couldn't be unique, he very well could have a completely new style of swordsmanship, and play differently from the previous FE characters we've seen in Smash. However, the problem is that it seems, for lack of a better word, unfair to Fire Emblem to have it represented only by three swordsmen. The series features so many unique weapons and styles of fighting. Having only swordsmen would misrepresent FE. In addition, there are plenty of non Fire Emblem characters who could fill the role of being a new, unique swordsman while representing their series well. Shulk, for example, would introduce a new style of swordsmanship, and it's very difficult to argue that he's the best representative for his series. It just seems to me that Fire Emblem needs someone to represent the magic side of it, and Smash needs more characters who can use less common weapons. The best choice for that role is Robin. Nothing against Chrom, he's awesome in his game, but his game is about far more than swordsmanship.

 

[jaytalks]

the image is broken for me.

I love the easter egg for the rallying taunt. Rally spectrum should have him say "Time to tip the scales!" That by far is my favorite critical hit quote.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

the image is broken for me.

I love the easter egg for the rallying taunt. Rally spectrum should have him say "Time to tip the scales!" That by far is my favorite critical hit quote.

It is just the Morgan Freeman picture where it says "He's right you know"

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Supporters section added to the op. If you want to be added just make a note here or PM me.

To give this post some purpose, here's a picture of grima.

 

[Pacack]

I like him, but I don't see him getting in before Chrom, personally. Even if I want him to.

 

[jaytalks]

I like him, but I don't see him getting in before Chrom, personally. Even if I want him to.

I don't understand this line of thinking. There isn't enough data to suggest that the main "main" characters need to get into Smash before the other protagonist. Marth, Roy, and PoR Ike are the only main characters in their game. But in FE7, FE8, FE10, FE12, and FE13, there are multiple main characters. You get Chrom and Robin at the same time. They are both presented as the main characters in the game. The game begins and ends with their actions. Anyone who sees even a slight possibility of an FE7 character seems to forget that Eliwood is the main protagonist, not Hector or Lyn.

Both Chrom and Robin trigger Game Over. Just because Robin isn't mandatory for the chapters doesn't mean she's not a main character. That's applying the idea of a main lord in FE to what it means to be a main character in video games in general. Most other video games and RPGs don't require certain party members. You don't need to use Isaac in Golden Sun: The Lost Age, or Matthew in Golden Sun: Dark Dawn for them to be considered the main characters of those respective games. They are the main characters because their role in the story.

 

[Pacack]

I don't understand this line of thinking. There isn't enough data to suggest that the main "main" characters need to get into Smash before the other protagonist. Marth, Roy, and PoR Ike are the only main characters in their game. But in FE7, FE8, FE10, FE12, and FE13, there are multiple main characters. You get Chrom and Robin at the same time. They are both presented as the main characters in the game. The game begins and ends with their actions. Anyone who sees even a slight possibility of an FE7 character seems to forget that Eliwood is the main protagonist, not Hector or Lyn.

Both Chrom and Robin trigger Game Over. Just because Robin isn't mandatory for the chapters doesn't mean she's not a main character. That's applying the idea of a main lord in FE to what it means to be a main character in video games in general. Most other video games and RPGs don't require certain party members. You don't need to use Isaac in Golden Sun: The Lost Age, or Matthew in Golden Sun: Dark Dawn for them to be considered the main characters of those respective games. They are the main characters because their role in the story.

Honestly, I'm more put off by the fact that Robin is not a character as much as it is an avatar, but Villager got in (over Tom Nook and such), so it could still be possible. I do understand that Robin is still the main character of the game with Chrom, but it seems like it'd be difficult to accurately represent Robin, since it is inherently an Avatar. That's just me, though. I could very well be wrong, and I hope I am.

 

[jaytalks]

Robin, GBA style. I need to fix the hooded version though.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Robin, GBA style. I need to fix the hooded version though.

That's amazing. I always loved the GBA sprites. You did a great job making it fit in with the other sprites.

If you don't mind I'm going to add these somewhere in the OP and update your hooded sprite if you fix that.

 

[jaytalks]

That's amazing. I always loved the GBA sprites. You did a great job making it fit in with the other sprites.

If you don't mind I'm going to add these somewhere in the OP and update your hooded sprite if you fix that.

no I don't mind. I would love it.
Here is the updated Robin hood:

 

[Pacack]

Okay, with the Wii Fit Trainer, I'm sold on Robin. Hope s/he gets in over Chrom, honestly.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Hm... I curious. Whats everyone else's position on Robin/Tactician getting in before Chrom?
Chrom has always been the star of promotional material but when it comes to the actual game, Robin arguably plays an equally/a more significant roll. Additionally, Robin more readily meets Sakurai's criteria for a good character, something that people may or may not factor into their outlook.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

It is possible, but far from a guarantee. Robin's certainly the best chance we have of variety as far as Fire Emblem characters go

 

[jaytalks]

Robin before Chrom. It definitely can happen. There's no rule that the main protagonist needs to be added before deuteagonist or tritagonist, and the three FE smashers we have are all single protagonists in their respective appearance (remember, it's FE9 Ike).