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Tier Triangle

Adler

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
128
Location
My teacher says "in my own world".
I have never liked Tier Lists in any game (ever since Delibird was ranked so low in the Pokemon Tiers). I've always found that the Character I play the best as (or like the most) is ranked very low.

And so I drew this,

http://triton.imageshack.us/Himg68/...ename=tiertriangleby8.png&xsize=578&ysize=480

Just to clear up a few things;

Offence is how far the Opponant flies when hit by this Character (The Knockback of the Character's Attacks are averaged) also how easily the character can gimp.

Defence is how easily the Charater can recover, how far they fly in the first place and how many of their Attacks (or Yoshi's jump) have Super Armor Frames (and how long they last).

Speed is how fast the Character's Attacks come out, how fast they can rack up Damage and how many times they can hit the Enemy before being hit themselves (Projectile Attacks included).

What is shown here is not how powerful a Character is (Jigglypuff is not faster than Falco, but she is compared to the other two stats).

Where a Character is placed is relative to the other two 'Stats' (ROB is very fast I know but I think his flying (Defensive) ability upstages his speed).

It is also far from perfect (I can't use some of the Characters very well so I had to guess where they went based on what I've heard about them) (Some of the Characters should overlap but don't to make everyone easyer to see).

There is Something else which you need to take into account besides Offence, Defence, and Speed, and that is Mobility (Jigglypuff can move nearly anywhere allowing her to move out of Range of the Enemy) however I couldn't think of a shape to make this possible.
EDIT: I can't draw 3D.

Also Final Smashes have not been taken into account (only attacks you can activate at will).
__________________________________________________

If you put you (based on your best play style) onto this Triangle you should find which Character you would find the best (hopefully).

I will appriciate suggestions (how to improve it I mean (no flaming)) and if anyone wants to make thier own Tier Triangle (or Tier ? if they find a way to incorporate Mobility) be my guest (as this is also subject to opinion/play style too).
 

chaosscizzors

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
211
Location
Michigan
i like your idea but based on the deffinitions of "offence, deffence and speed", this is all messed up. i was only looking at defence and you have oli roughly around D3 and kirby... i'm no expert but oli has a tether and the other 2 can fly, there's a sizeable gap in recovery there.
 

:034:

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 9, 2007
Messages
7,562
Location
Netherlands
Get out of here before the flames begin.

And honestly, you're pretty wrong for most of it...
 

IstariAsuka

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 16, 2006
Messages
27
Location
Tucson, AZ
Just because all your favorite characters were low ranked is not a reason to create what amounts to a subjective writing of... fuzzy characteristics. Ones that aren't mutually exclusive in the way you have it set up, too.

I mean, you can be really good with a low tier character. Even better at that low tier character than any other character you play, including high tier ones. That doesn't mean that the high tier characters aren't better, just that you aren't better with them. You should, of course, play whoever you are best with.

I mean, in Melee, not everyone played fox/marth. There were falcos. And shieks. And peaches. And falcons. And samuses, and puffs, and ICs... etc. Even pros are better at some characters than others, even if the characters are in some sense worse than the best characters.
 

Charizard92

Smash Champion
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
2,207
There is Something else which you need to take into account besides Offence, Defence, and Speed, and that is Mobility (Jigglypuff can move nearly anywhere allowing her to move out of Range of the Enemy) however I couldn't think of a shape to make this possible.
A 3D Triangular Pyramid. That should work.
 

feardragon64

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 9, 2008
Messages
2,154
Location
San Francisco
Er....

Unfortunately it's just not accurate....nor does it prove anything?
I'll use the example that people are most familiar with. MK is faster than falco....He has a better offense than Ganon by far....and a much better defense than Wario...

Why in the world is snake in the offensive rather than the defensive section?

Basically you have everything really wrong and.....it doesn't prove anything even if it was right X_X Characters are more than just three simple attributes(that aren't even unique from each other. Why can't a character have speed, a decent offense, and a decent defense? In theory that character would be smack dab in the middle and seem to be a failure at EVERYTHING, when really they were just moderate at everything.

So...ya....
 

Zhamy

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
2,088
Location
NorCal
I will change it after I get a few good Suggestions.
Basically, this is beyond fixing. I suggest you abandon this thread now before you start getting flamed to death. Don't try to defend it; you'll get laughed at and butchered.
 

Skyshroud

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 7, 2006
Messages
794
Location
PA
Yeah, this list is pretty lol (Zelda in offense/speed). Please spell "offense" and "defense" correctly as well.

I don't understand what purpose this serves. Basically, tiers exist where we like them or not, but they DO NOT force you to play any specific character. In fact, I find tiers more of an incentive to get good with who I use.

EDIT: Brinboy, he isn't saying that Jiggs is fastest. It's basically like a dominance factor chart. The location of the character (tries to) represent their dominance toward a statistic. Middle characters are balanced; characters towards the edge are more lopsided towards a specific stat. So, in the case of Jiggs, he is trying to state that the speed is more dominant regarding her overall statistics than any character.
 

Adapt

Smash Lord
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
1,489
Location
NS, Canada
If you really want to do it this way you will have to use a cube to properly display the attributes (because these attributes are completely independent of each other). You can also think of it as 3 independent axes in 3D space.

And if you add any more attributes you can't actually draw a picture of it. As each attribute becomes a dimension in space, you can have fun drawing trying to draw any more than 3 dimensions.


Of course if you just want to say which attribute is most important to a character then your triangle will work, but it is in now way related to a tier list.
 

SSD

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Messages
244
Location
California
defense on recovery and super armor?
characters are far from this simple, and the way it's shaped means that a character cannot be close to all three points at once.
 

ExCeL 52

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Messages
1,228
Location
Suck My Kiss!
This is really cool man ..
With a bit more editing .. it can be done pretty nicely..

I like where you placed peach ;)
 

XxBlackxX

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Messages
863
Location
California
well the idea isn't bad, but i REALLY think some of the characters' placement is off.

also, your 3 definitions are not exactly correct. offense usually isn't about power and knockback, defense isn't really about recovery, and how fast someone racks up damage should be offense, not speed
 

Amarkov

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
86
So, you decided to rank characters according to offense, defense, and speed. You then invented questionable definitions for these three categories, and used an unexplained method to put information about three variables into a graph with insufficient dimensions.

Why?
 

The_Blue_Bomber

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 18, 2008
Messages
383
Location
Adelaide, Australia
Who cares if your character is low on the tier list? That only makes it more satisfying when you win with them, and makes you look better as a player. A good Ness will stand out a lot more than a good Meta Knight.
 

Veggi

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
2,590
Location
I'm gonna wreck it! (Fort Myers)
I feel sort of bad for him...

This kind of thing would probably be put into words with a lot of explaining, that or tons of graphs with tons of subjects. It was a nice try though.
 

zzz99

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
116
nice try...but really brawl isn't this simple
I mean, look at MK, why is he not like stretched over the whole chart? lol jk
also, gimping really isn't factored into this at all, and neither is defense recovery based
there is a good idea here, but it should have been discussed and THEN created
 
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