dirtboy345
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2010
- Messages
- 715
From only netplay experience a decent while back I'll say he losses for reasons I won't be able to explain well. I don't have much ROB experience lol
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Tier List Speculation
- Thread starter OkamiBW
- Start date
Don't sweat it, i definitely have those mus where it feels a certain way without being able to articulate exactly why I've got that feeling. Early on I had that with the sheik mu, like it just felt easier on squirtles end but I wouldn't have been able to say why. Game can be weird.
Farquaad
Smash Cadet
Life
Smash Hero
Man I don't really get why I seem to be the only person on the planet that doesn't really hate characters
Sure some MATCHUPS are annoying but that boils down to what kind of game you want to be playing exactly
Pit vs. Snake was a royal pain and then I swapped mains to Wolf and now it's a lot of fun as long as I don't get grabbed far away from a platform
Wolf vs. Sonic was really annoying the first couple times and then I figured out how to not get gimped easily and as long as I don't go full impatient-ten-year-old aggro it's perfectly fine
The more characters you claim to hate the more likely it is that what you actually hate is your own character and you should consider learning another because what you think you should have and what you're getting are clearly not the same
Stop trying to shoehorn characters into your expectations of what should and should not be possible because you will set yourself up for disappointment every time. Start looking at what is and what you can do. If you really want to be able to combo floaties such as Luigi, and you play a character that can't combo floaties easily, you're playing the wrong character. You cannot expect everyone to quit Luigi, nor can you expect PMDT to nerf Luigi to the ground because, oh yeah, they no longer exist. Same goes for the rest of the cast.
Sure some MATCHUPS are annoying but that boils down to what kind of game you want to be playing exactly
Pit vs. Snake was a royal pain and then I swapped mains to Wolf and now it's a lot of fun as long as I don't get grabbed far away from a platform
Wolf vs. Sonic was really annoying the first couple times and then I figured out how to not get gimped easily and as long as I don't go full impatient-ten-year-old aggro it's perfectly fine
The more characters you claim to hate the more likely it is that what you actually hate is your own character and you should consider learning another because what you think you should have and what you're getting are clearly not the same
Stop trying to shoehorn characters into your expectations of what should and should not be possible because you will set yourself up for disappointment every time. Start looking at what is and what you can do. If you really want to be able to combo floaties such as Luigi, and you play a character that can't combo floaties easily, you're playing the wrong character. You cannot expect everyone to quit Luigi, nor can you expect PMDT to nerf Luigi to the ground because, oh yeah, they no longer exist. Same goes for the rest of the cast.
Avro-Arrow
Smash Journeyman
When he's in the blast zone
Avro-Arrow
Smash Journeyman
Certainly not while he's on the ledge.
Life
Smash Hero
Have you tried hitting your opponent and not letting them hit you?
Or you could remember that due floatiness and poor air speed he has limited options to counter juggles.
There are some stupid things in the game, but at this point you either adapt and develop counterplay or keep going 0-2 in bracket.
It's probably more sarcasm that floats me by, but eh...
There are some stupid things in the game, but at this point you either adapt and develop counterplay or keep going 0-2 in bracket.
It's probably more sarcasm that floats me by, but eh...
_Chrome
Smash Ace
PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP
Hologram Summer Again
luigi is broken
playing with people who don't know how luigi works is almost not fun because it's like taking candy from a baby because nope lol you can't shield grab me I have another aerial nope lol your followups don't work you got hit by a nair nope lol just because I'm over here doesn't mean I can't grab you nope lol my jab beats half of your moves get used to it
this is all somewhat sarcasitc luigi has counterplay just like any other character
playing with people who don't know how luigi works is almost not fun because it's like taking candy from a baby because nope lol you can't shield grab me I have another aerial nope lol your followups don't work you got hit by a nair nope lol just because I'm over here doesn't mean I can't grab you nope lol my jab beats half of your moves get used to it
this is all somewhat sarcasitc luigi has counterplay just like any other character
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Xykness
Smash Journeyman
I can't imagine what will ever happen if a Luigi wins a major.
PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP
Hologram Summer Again
"[player] is carried by luigi, luigi is broken" or "[player] is so good, they really showed us how luigi can work"
flip a coin which one is it going to be
probably like a 75/25 split respectively
people would cry about nair
people would cry about wavedropping (like people already have)
people would cry about shoryu
bang bang
flip a coin which one is it going to be
probably like a 75/25 split respectively
people would cry about nair
people would cry about wavedropping (like people already have)
people would cry about shoryu
bang bang
D
Deleted member
Guest
no its okay because snake is bottom 10, you cant even name 10 characters that snake beats. thats exactly how deep characters are judged in this game.
thankfully sheik beats everyone and has no bad MUs. sheik is def top 3.
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PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP
Hologram Summer Again
Avro-Arrow
Smash Journeyman
_Chrome
Smash Ace
PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP
I'd think most people would complain about Luigi being able to save his Misfires.
JesteRace
Smash Journeyman
It wasn't a major, but people sure did their fair share of ******** and moaning when Dong beat Sethlon(twice) and Oracle to win EZ$$
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
That's just a result of you having switched to a character with the tools to beat 95% of the cast in neutral and go evenish with them in punishing lol
Also congratz on not getting annoyed. But it doesn't matter that there's some weird subset of people that either enjoy certain frustrating matchups or just don't get aggravated at all by earning their punishments against characters and not really getting much for it. When 3/4 of players feel a character is just anti-fun, there's probably a reason for it. And you can look at those characters and see blatant similarities on why. They may have tools thy it's best to just flat out avoid rather than trying to interact with, they break or heavily alter positional disadvantage to be no big deal for them, and they either avoid heavy punishes or flip small punishment flubs heavily in their favor.
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PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP
Hologram Summer Again
misfire is first and foremost a recovery option and gets worse every time you store it
people who use randy off
also both players should be able to tell when a luigi has a mirefire, it's a pretty noticeable animation if you can tell what you're looking for
also side note: the last three ilovebagels sets I've watched have all had instances where he stored misfires, then proceeded to use them offensively because the opponent had no idea that the misfire was on the table
all of those times the commentators also didn't know that bagels had a misfire and instead were astounded at how "lucky" he was
downb got its endlag increased and uair got its kb angle slightly changed (I think) so rising tornado to immediate uair to 50/50 shoryu misfire is no longer a thing (also you could still di out of it in 3.5 but whatever) which was like the only misfire confirm that was somewhat reliable
you can catch people on a dthrow misfire but you can di/tech/jump out of it depending on percent and character
shoryu is far better at punishing terrible di in than misfire is at punishing terrible di in any direction
(protip: don't di in lol)
there are things to complain about about luigi and misfire is not one of them
not like your complaints matter anymore heheheh
tasteless gentleman
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2015
- Messages
- 492
I think bowser may be S tier, However the level of precision is literally TAS levels. I mean lets think about it, he CAN edge gaurd any character at any %. His tools are vicious (Crawl stalling, fire breath, bowser bomb, The several attacks that hit through attacks and Fair).
And yes where there are bad match ups, im going to say that side step up B (and up b OOS) counters and stops any pressure. Fire breath crushes dash dance heavy characters and disrupts everything (including recoveries) and combos into kills. The only hard match ups are falco (when you figure out the lazers its not bad), Falcon (figure out the dash dance and knees and its winnable) and fox (get a grab, flame breath, dont fall for baits and win the edge guard) and diddy (take the banana and counter with whats needed as needed).
What do you all think?
And yes where there are bad match ups, im going to say that side step up B (and up b OOS) counters and stops any pressure. Fire breath crushes dash dance heavy characters and disrupts everything (including recoveries) and combos into kills. The only hard match ups are falco (when you figure out the lazers its not bad), Falcon (figure out the dash dance and knees and its winnable) and fox (get a grab, flame breath, dont fall for baits and win the edge guard) and diddy (take the banana and counter with whats needed as needed).
What do you all think?
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
What are you smoking
The ashes of PM
tasteless gentleman
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2015
- Messages
- 492
Can you humor me for a second and think about it?
Flame Breath "could" work, but the way it works assumes you've already cornered your opponent and won neutral in a way that forced them to retreat and between sluggishness and a large hurtbox to chug around, that's far easier said than done. All the other tools lose to good DDing.
Having great punishes and edgeguards means jack if you can't win neutral consistently to get to them. This is something that has been established by Fox being top tier despite supposedly getting 0 to death'd by everyone and Diddy being top tier despite not having nowhere near the devastating punishes that some characters can dish out.
Having great punishes and edgeguards means jack if you can't win neutral consistently to get to them. This is something that has been established by Fox being top tier despite supposedly getting 0 to death'd by everyone and Diddy being top tier despite not having nowhere near the devastating punishes that some characters can dish out.
ThegreatVaporeon1
Smash Ace
I'm still curious as to why Professor Pro thinks Snake is bottom 10..
_Chrome
Smash Ace
I think Tasteless is joking or something like that. A few months ago they claimed Bowser was horrible, so unless that was trying to make Bowser even better than "S Tier" by getting everyone to want Bowser to be buffed, then Tasteless is a troll confirmed.
(Tasteless, I would agree with me if I were you, even if it isn't true. Most people will probably question your sanity at this point, and wanna know what you're smoking {which we do wanna know as DF pointed out}. You're gonna be absolutely slaughtered or ignored again.)
(Tasteless, I would agree with me if I were you, even if it isn't true. Most people will probably question your sanity at this point, and wanna know what you're smoking {which we do wanna know as DF pointed out}. You're gonna be absolutely slaughtered or ignored again.)
Kapapanerp
Smash Apprentice
Probably just his way to try and get discussion going. If you watch the ama he did he says he loves snake and wouldn't change anything about him.
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shairn
Your favorite anime is bad.
Like yeah if you throw out all the right moves, don't fall for your opponent's baits, figure out their DD and read their recovery right all the time you can win with any character and it's probably a better idea to pick anybody but Bowser regardless.
If ur a god with reactions, baits, reads, and being good, pick a fast char with strong punish and solid fundamentals plz. Armada ain't trying to win with a basic bish low tier ok
Or pick Ganondorf. That's the acceptable big bulky slow dude you can play. Not D3 (checklist: are you Ripple? No you are not Ripple *unless ur Ripple* so don't try to be that Ripple 2.0), not Yoshi (his head is fat and his weight is unacceptable, T-rex plz), not Bowser. Just Ganondork
Even Odds is like "Yo lemme hit u up with that Pikachu and Pit" cause Bowser smells
Or pick Ganondorf. That's the acceptable big bulky slow dude you can play. Not D3 (checklist: are you Ripple? No you are not Ripple *unless ur Ripple* so don't try to be that Ripple 2.0), not Yoshi (his head is fat and his weight is unacceptable, T-rex plz), not Bowser. Just Ganondork
Even Odds is like "Yo lemme hit u up with that Pikachu and Pit" cause Bowser smells
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I'll warn him the next time I see him.
KinGly
Smash Journeyman
PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP
Hologram Summer Again
luigi is like weed: the character
edit: oops not social thread ****it this is still a valid theorypost
edit: oops not social thread ****it this is still a valid theorypost
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jtm94
Smash Lord
Life
Thanks for one of the only rational posts out of the last few pages.I can confirm the game is less annoying while using a better character like Wolf, but I choose to not use wolf so I can't complain. I also use GnW, but that has nothing to do with anything because nothing will ever change and everyone has the same opportunity of using any character in the game. Yet, people will still complain about the dumb stuff other characters have. If the character is dumb go use them and win.
Legitimately if all you do is complain and don't enjoy playing then quit just like Umbreon and a handful of other people did.
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
Why not complain AND play?
that's what I do, works pretty well
I get to return a fraction of the suffering inflicted upon me by GnW mains back to them in the form of peer judgement. You should be ashamed
You have to deal with it anyway, so why complain? Just adjust your play style, play more patiently. If you're getting the opportunity to punish, it means you're winning the neutral. Stop overextending punishes and instead, reset to neutral with positional advantage and do what you did before to win.
I think people complain about match-ups like Squirtle and Luigi because their bread and butter doesn't work like it does against 80% of the cast. And many people have such a significant degree of autopilot, that they can't switch it up and play the match-up.
Obviously, this isn't the case with every player, but I'm sure it is with some. I stopped complaining once development ceased, because my complaints aren't going to get anything changed, they're just going to get me worked up. Instead, I figure out ways to deal with what I have trouble with, and I look at it with an open mind.
For example, I think that Sheik's throw mechanics are way too good. I can't count how many times I've lost because of my inability to counter it. So, instead of complaining, and looking for a new character to deal with Sheik, I really took a look at my play and figured out what I can do better to avoid being put into those situations in the first place.
I think people complain about match-ups like Squirtle and Luigi because their bread and butter doesn't work like it does against 80% of the cast. And many people have such a significant degree of autopilot, that they can't switch it up and play the match-up.
Obviously, this isn't the case with every player, but I'm sure it is with some. I stopped complaining once development ceased, because my complaints aren't going to get anything changed, they're just going to get me worked up. Instead, I figure out ways to deal with what I have trouble with, and I look at it with an open mind.
For example, I think that Sheik's throw mechanics are way too good. I can't count how many times I've lost because of my inability to counter it. So, instead of complaining, and looking for a new character to deal with Sheik, I really took a look at my play and figured out what I can do better to avoid being put into those situations in the first place.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,559
I definitely beat the **** out of Squirtle/Zelda/Luigi/Falcon/DDD/Snake/Falco/whatever players just about every time I play them, doesn't make their character any less annoying. I do not have any problem beating them, that usually isn't the issue people have when they bring up their obnoxiousness. If someone is genuinely bad and is complaining about a character because they lose, they probably do so about several characters and not a select few like Umbreon does. If you can beat it, it means it's not broken (which no one has argued those characters to be in this conversation), it has nothing to do with whether or not the character is annoying.
I also find characters annoying based on their gameplay and not based on their matchup with my character. For example I don't really mind Toon Link even though that's my worst matchup by far. His gameplay is very "normal" even if he has a strong advantage, he doesn't break any rules or have really stupid extremes that result in skewed gameplay.
I also find characters annoying based on their gameplay and not based on their matchup with my character. For example I don't really mind Toon Link even though that's my worst matchup by far. His gameplay is very "normal" even if he has a strong advantage, he doesn't break any rules or have really stupid extremes that result in skewed gameplay.
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