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Tier List Speculation
- Thread starter OkamiBW
- Start date
Raccoon Chuck
Smash Lord
Mario's still a character that I can see in tops, but I doubt he's without his terrible Matchups. Marth was the bane of both Marios AND Docs in Melee, he still can't approach well, his hitboxes coming down are still lackluster (despite Down Air being pretty beast in a horizontal approach.), predictable (albeit high distance) recovery(though the sweetspot is too good.), and abysmal range. It's not to difficult to overcome some of these problems if you keep off the edgeguarding side, but some characters like DK, Marth, (Maybe Roy), etc can best him fairly well. :/
Well well, it's nice to see Bowser win the grand finals.
But in reality, we're still seeing improvements and changes in the game. It isn't the final version and won't be for a while so there is a lot of room for change, whether it'd be one person moves up or down in the list and all that flabby glab stuff and stuff.
But in reality, we're still seeing improvements and changes in the game. It isn't the final version and won't be for a while so there is a lot of room for change, whether it'd be one person moves up or down in the list and all that flabby glab stuff and stuff.
Oro?!
Smash Hero
I said the gates have opened and Kirk would be unstoppable after Nerd Rage. The gatekeeper got destroyed. 
Archangel
Smash Hero
What? Your phone must auto-correct Marth into Mario. Here is my exact post.
So yeah, I was talking about Marth not Mario. As someone who played both Doc and Mario for years I must say I always had more trouble with Falco and if Mario does have a difficult time vs anybody it's Falco. I think it's a MU that can be done though. I suggest anyone who is constantly plagued practice nothing but powershielding vs falco for like...a month.
If M2K would have chose Marth vs PikaChad, he probably would have won. I'm not sure what he was thinking.
Viceversa96
Banned via Warnings
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2012
- Messages
- 413
Mario made it to GFs woohoo!!! Lost to Bowser for some strange reason but still wooo!
kirk is an example of why bowser's likely not sliding down to bottom 5 any time soon
giant hitbox = giant shield = powershield funtimes
giant hitbox = giant shield = powershield funtimes
Yeah but I think Mario's wall jump recovery is too good. He gets an overwhelming advantage when playing on certain stages compared to others.
\Apples
Smash Journeyman
Despite him winning BH3, I still think Bowser is pretty bad. Call me crazy, I'm just saying.
foxygrandpa
Smash Journeyman
Bowsers not terrible, because anyone can easily abuse his edgegame, I think he is still around mid tier. The main problem with bowser, that makes him worse than other slow hard hitters is his total inability to air juggle. It's difficult for bowser to land a single hit, other than just spamming upb out of shield and sliding onto the edge.
Oro?!
Smash Hero
Bowser is not "pretty bad", but he is kinda just run of the mill, middle ground in terms of tier placement imo. Being around the middle in a game like this is pretty good though considering the power level of every character in relation to each other.
I heard Bowser sucks against ROB though. Is this true?
Oro?!
Smash Hero
Probably not Bowser's worst matchup but he does have an extremely hard time with characters that can either get in reliably or keep him out indefinitely.
D
Deleted member
Guest
m2k's marth would have been molested by that mario. like call the crisis hotline molested.
metroid1117
Smash Master
I have been converted.
Fun tidbit: After Rat beat M2K on stream, I heard some Melee players muttering that Wolf was dumb because he had a zoning tool and combo game. Double standards, much?
Like never mind Falco is infinitely better at pillaring.
Never mind Falco's lasers can't clank and Wolf's can.
Never ****ing mind you can CC Wolf Shine a lot better and successfully than Falco's shine.
Never ****ing mind you can Meteor Cancel Wolf Dair but not Falco Dair.
Never god damn ****ing mind that Falco still has an overall better toolset than Wolf.
Holy ****.
20/10 master ruseman detected i am all out of useable pokemon
i hella mad
Never mind Falco's lasers can't clank and Wolf's can.
Never ****ing mind you can CC Wolf Shine a lot better and successfully than Falco's shine.
Never ****ing mind you can Meteor Cancel Wolf Dair but not Falco Dair.
Never god damn ****ing mind that Falco still has an overall better toolset than Wolf.
Holy ****.
20/10 master ruseman detected i am all out of useable pokemon
i hella mad
Oro?!
Smash Hero
Dat wolf dash attack tho. Kappa
Do those same people know you can completely override Wolf's lasers with attacks? Probably worst laser
People haven't taken Wolf to a "complainable" level yet. Once people consistently die from Wolf combos (with Side B as the finish probably), in situations that Fox and Falco might not have been able to follow up on as strongly, then you might hear something. Untilt then, bahahahahahahaha @ Wolf salt
Minor Pandemic
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2013
- Messages
- 142
After the end of PM grands and the Mewtwo trailer, the Melee commentary guys came on and immediately said that they think PM Bowser is clearly OP and should be toned down. It's like someone can't win a PM tourney because they are the best entrant, they can only win because of their character.
You sure they weren't joking? Scar and Toph? (I forgot the other guy's name I feel bad) were cracking jokes and having a good time throughout the day. I doubt they were serious about that. Just saying.
I'll admit, I want something about Bowser changed, but not for nerf reasons. I'd like to see the character not be so Upb reliant to keep up onstage. I feel like it's the type of move that masks or doesn't show the depth of underlying skill of the player behind it, and it's stuck on a character who will most likely be forced into using it to not get mowed down...
I'll admit, I want something about Bowser changed, but not for nerf reasons. I'd like to see the character not be so Upb reliant to keep up onstage. I feel like it's the type of move that masks or doesn't show the depth of underlying skill of the player behind it, and it's stuck on a character who will most likely be forced into using it to not get mowed down...
Oro?!
Smash Hero
Scar knows all about broken. His old rants on puff/peach were hilarious.
Minor Pandemic
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2013
- Messages
- 142
It wasn't Scar and I don't think it was Toph either. Those two came on ~30 minutes into the start of melee bracket broadcasting. There were a couple others on before that.
D
Deleted member
Guest
i agree that bowser is a little too centric to up B but i'm not sure it needs to be changed.
as far as design goes though, i think the worst designed move in the game is wolf's side B. why one move can act as combo finisher kill move projectile recovery that randomly escapes bad situations is beyond me. it doesn't look cool to me, it just acts as a reminder of why captain falcon is so linear and stupid and i wish that aspect hadn't been transferred to another character.
as far as design goes though, i think the worst designed move in the game is wolf's side B. why one move can act as combo finisher kill move projectile recovery that randomly escapes bad situations is beyond me. it doesn't look cool to me, it just acts as a reminder of why captain falcon is so linear and stupid and i wish that aspect hadn't been transferred to another character.
Tlock
Smash Apprentice
And yet watching Hax's captain falcon is immensely entertaining.
ItalianStallion
Smash Journeyman
Captain Falcon is not stupid! *Throws tantrum*
Archangel
Smash Hero
It's not a fluke. Bowser isn't great, he's not S-tier level but I don't think it's a stretch to call him a good character. He's got heavy Armor and he can tank projectile attacks while crouching and moving forward.
I had bowser at 13 on my last list. I think it's a pretty reasonable spot.
D
Deleted member
Guest
hax is entertaining because it's basically TAS tech skill, not because i expect new strategic variations in CFs play lol
I'll still hold true that Mario's up-b wall jump recovery is stupid.
Raccoon Chuck
Smash Lord
If Mario's recovery were to see a nerf, I'd just give it it's Melee walljump timing back. Perhaps a less ridiculous hitbox on the hand, and more proportional animations would do good as well. As for Falcon.....whoo boy. He feels like he was Sonic all this time, the way he just runs of like the "Boiling Man-Sauce", entity he is. I just really have learned to hate Falcon fights, and I just don't get that awesome power surge so many yearn for when they play him. It feels like nothing more than grab, down air, dash dance, neutral air, up air, back air, and knees. This may seem like a good list of moves, but most of his evasion, and defense in general, is just dashing around, and these moves make combos feel run of the mill to me. : /
(Just Do It from Kjab is still a good watch though, I don't know why.)
(Just Do It from Kjab is still a good watch though, I don't know why.)
MysteryRevengerson
IT'S A MYSTERY TO ALL
Because Melee™
GP&B
Ike 'n' Ike
Used to love it, but I think the shear tilt it causes in simply picking stages like GHZ and CV makes it way too overbearing. Mario's got a solid if not predictable recovery as is which is fine. I don't think he needs such a ridiculously helpful tool.
The actual timing doesn't seem much different than Melee. What is different however, is that you don't have to be hugging the wall already when starting Upb. In Melee, after either version 1.0 or 1.1, they made it harder to Upb Walljump. You had to be touching the wall and iirc also angle the Upb into the stage. Project M Mario can start Upb far away from the stage, barely touch a wall, and walljump from there.
Shadow Huan
Smash Champion
the melee community is hilarious sometimes, but in a very sad way
I once got snapped at for trash talking a Falco who was doing the usual Falco bull**** that they can all do lol
because Falco is sexy or something
Really? It always seemed harder to me in Melee. Anyways, I just don't like how Mario gets such an overwhelming unbalanced buff when choosing some stages and how when someone's grabbing the edge, if he's close enough, he can just wall jump of the ledge. Mario already has cape, tornado, mid-weight, and fireballs to help his recovery. I think his wall-jump out of up-b needs to be harder to do.
Well, it is in that sort of tournament setting where everyone's excited and nervous so some people are prone to saying things without thinking things through sometimes. Plus, some haven't really seen/experienced PM before, so I would think its kind of normal to hear some of them say something ignorant. I mean I doubt people like M2K, Leffen, or Hungrybox would say that kind of stuff. Okay, maybe Leffen.